Locked threads...... Feeling kind of QRZish up in heah......

[KA9MOT]

RE: KA4DPO's thread about the Gun Show and general gun questions and answers. Locked and told to take it to the "Gun Debate Thread". Did anybody see a debate? It was a discussion about Guns.

Has the QRZ moderatorship styles started rubbing off on the Island Mods? Is the power so great, that mere mortals are unable to prevent it from morphing to NAZI Tactics?

NO GUN DISCUSSION FOR YOU!

The least you could have done was wait for it to become a debate thread if that is what you expected it to become.

Now that this is becoming a trend, do we start worrying about being banned for what we say, while others say far worse are allowed to stay because they are more popular?

Will the Island metamorphosis into DA ZED?

[W4GPL]

I advise you look at the thread again..

"Obama gonna take all our guns"...

"De scared white people be quaking."

"Just what we need. Another fucking paranoid gun thread."

You're obviously seeing just what you want to see.

None of that is related to the technical discussion of guns. If y'all can control yourselves, I completely agree with a thread worthy of the technical and hobbyist merits of guns... but some of you can't. So.. fuck it. I'm not putting up with 100 threads that turn into pissing matches. This is the one subject we've (I've) decided to do this with -- it's an experiment. If you think we're turning into QRZ, I take great exception to that notion. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

[W4GPL]

Furthermore, why don't you go out and do better? Y'all have finally chased off Luke because he's sick of this kind of shit. And several others of us aren't far behind. Bicker, piss, and moan.. see how fast we choose not to give a damn when we're doing the best we can with the best of intentions. I'm tired of this shit.

[KB3LAZ]

No, I dint think things are getting zedish in that way. The topic isnt forbiden, it just has a dedicated arena. Do I find it sad that it has to come to that, yes but we have only ourselves to blame.

There comes a time where no matter how much you like a place you will find something that upsets or irritates you, thus is life. No one place can be a utopia for everyone. I am sure there are small aspects of the island that get on all of our nerves from time to time, even if only for a short period of time but over all it is a great place.

JMO but one I am willing to bet others share. TaKe it for what it is worth.

[KA9MOT]

I see a couple of off topic comments (2 appear to be humor) that the topic of the thread whizzed right passed. I still don't see anything that resembles any kind of debate.

[KA9MOT]

No, I dint think things are getting zedish in that way. The topic isnt forbiden, it just has a dedicated arena. Do I find it sad that it has to come to that, yes but we have only ourselves to blame.

There comes a time where no matter how much you like a place you will find something that upsets or irritates you, thus is life. No one place can be a utopia for everyone. I am sure there are small aspects of the island that get on all of our nerves from time to time, even if only for a short period of time but over all it is a great place.

JMO but one I am willing to bet others share. TaKe it for what it is worth.

I can go along with that. And some of the insane crap, should be banned. That thread however was informative and everybody was playing together just fine. I see no reason for to have been locked down other then the fact that it was about guns. It may have gone to hell in a hand basket, and if it did, that would have been the time to lock it down. There was absolutely no debate, so why send it off to the debate thread?

[W4GPL]

I think you can give us a little leeway after 5+ years of experience with y'all. We usually know where the wind is blowing. We do all we can not to emulate QRZ.. but sometimes a snap judgment is the best way to go to protect the general morale of the forums. For what it's worth, this was already privately addressed among other members and debated among the staff -- your concerns are not new.. we have and continue to consider the best course of action. Which I guarantee is a lot more than QRZ would ever do...

I again stress privately addressed. You felt the need to bring this into the public light, do not expect a timid response. When Luke gives up on y'all, it's clearly time for change.

[KA9MOT]

Furthermore, why don't you go out and do better? Y'all have finally chased off Luke because he's sick of this kind of shit. And several others of us aren't far behind. Bicker, piss, and moan.. see how fast we choose not to give a damn when we're doing the best we can with the best of intentions. I'm tired of this shit.

You'll have to forgive me, I don't know who Luke is. I know only know the names of those I've had direct dealing with in one way or another. Unless I look up your callsign or you tell me, I don't know your name... including you. That is why I put mine in my signature.

GO out and do better? I can't do any better, nor am I saying I could. I have nothing but respect for the moderation here.... however, sometimes things are done that I disagree with and I choose to call it as I see it. If you can show me I am wrong, I'll say I am wrong. Otherwise, I have a tendency to beat that horse long after he has expired. I don't think I'm wrong in this case. You certainly allow all manner of abuse in the political threads, yet close down a gun thread where everybody was behaving themselves because it might get ugly.

[KA9MOT]

I think you can give us a little leeway after 5+ years of experience with y'all. We usually know where the wind is blowing. We do all we can not to emulate QRZ.. but sometimes a snap judgment is the best way to go to protect the general morale of the forums. For what it's worth, this was already privately addressed among other members and debated among the staff -- your concerns are not new.. we have and continue to consider the best course of action. Which I guarantee is a lot more than QRZ would ever do...

I again stress privately addressed. You felt the need to bring this into the public light, do not expect a timid response. When Luke gives up on y'all, it's clearly time for change.

Fair enough! The problem with privately addressing the issue is that the masses don't know it was dealt with privately. Somebody is bound to bring it up publicly. That is something you can count on. Please remove the QRZ part from the title. It was a smart assed comment designed to make sure the thread was noticed. Hell, for that matter, feel free to delete the thread.

[KB3LAZ]

Luke, much like a few others is a staple of this site. I dont know as much as I probably should about a lot of people around here, seeings as how much time I have spent here over the years but what I do know is that unlike on other radio related boards, most if not all of the staff have day jobs and are not retired. They devote as much time to this site as they can. They do so without complaint 99% of the time. Will we or they always agree, highly doubtful but the point is that the time they dedicate is for us.

If I sound like I am taking this personally, I may be, just a bit. This site has offered me and many others something that no other has, a second home. Not just another forum to chat on. We get to know one another, personally; more and more with each passing day.

Come whatever may, at the end of the day, the island is home. Anything else is just a forum.

[N7YA]

Well, this sucks. I had no idea Luke left.


Ive been here a long time and i hate to see it disbanding like this. So this is how it ends?

[KB3LAZ]

Well, this sucks. I had no idea Luke left.


Ive been here a long time and i hate to see it disbanding like this. So this is how it ends?

Adam, over time, staples come lose and fall out for many reasons. Wil they be missed for their contributions is not the question but rather, what can we do to honor those contributions. Things are not set in stone until their time comes. Sometimes people need to do what is best for them no matter the outcome.

Im not sure how this topic evolved into this but since it is on this path. When a staff member becomes a member, that does not have to mean the end of the world as we know it. Members have a lot to contribute, just in a different way. It is and always has been our job as inhabitants of the island to keep a positive outlook and contribute what we can. Dont grow glum, it does not fit you. :)

I shall return after my family lunch to further engage this topic. Until then, keep it real. :)

[N7YA]

I understand that, but it seems an awful lot of staples are falling out. People are tearing eachother up here like never before.

I have really enjoyed my time on the island, but this is a new year of great possibilities, its time to reevaluate our excesses.

[WØTKX]

Well, this sucks. I had no idea Luke left.


Ive been here a long time and i hate to see it disbanding like this. So this is how it ends?

He has not left, but he sure does not participate much. Just like on the phone bands the overwhelming pressure of QRM causes incoherency in the group.

The cool rag chewers take it somewhere else. FWIW, when was the last time I bothered to post any links to start a discussion? Too many turd blossoms, that overwhelm with argumentative retorts and such. All spice, no meat. It's a shame, but discussion is no longer relevant. The dark side of trolling is more relevant. Especially with trolls that do it "politely", with an abundance of "information" to promote a partisan view.

Don't worry, this is part of the evolution of any discussion group, in real life or the 'tubes. It will evolve, or die out, only to erupt in another form or fashion later. Meanwhile, nobody remembers the original argument. I found poo flinging monkey hilarious, as long as you stay upwind.

:dunno:

P.S. At this point I'd be too embarrassed to admit owning a gun, if I did.

[ad4mg]

You'll have to forgive me, I don't know who Luke is.

That would be me, Steve. I locked the thread, and I'll explain why, and it will be honest, brutually honest, but without malice.

We listen carefully to the membership. Prior to Jeff creating the one gun thread to rule them all, 2 active participants in particular thought that scouring the internet for any gun related story, and then creating a new thread for each was a whiz-bang terrific method of advancing their agenda. We started receiving complaints about the sheer volume of new gun-nutter / gun-notter threads. I, and perhaps some other staff members also became annoyed at the one topic takeover of the political forum. My opinion is that if you want dozens of gun discussion threads, find a gun discussion forum. Unlike QRZ, who you accuse us of emulating, we have and allow a political forum that has lively discussion of a wide variety of topics. Also, unlike QRZ, open discussions such as this one are allowed, even encouraged, but obviously not well received with such an inflammatory title. That isn't needed to get our attention, we have and will continue to pay attention to everyone's opinion here. And, no, your title, your comments, and this thread will not be deleted, edited, or altered in any way. That would, indeed, steer us towards behavior found on QRZ. That is their choice, I won't be critical for what they decide to do over there, but we do not, and will not emulate their behavior here. That accusation is pretty unfair.

Now, as to my upcoming decision about remaining on the staff here, there are a multitude of reasons that I'm giving this consideration. Top of the list is simply because I've been on the staff longer than anyone. My goal in accepting the position long ago was to insure that the site has the best opportunity to continue to exist. I wanted to help out, and Mike (al2n) made me a moderator. My "agenda" has always been to see that the maximum number of amateur radio operators be given the opportunity to speak their mind, as adults, with minimal restriction, and without fear of retaliation from the staff. Those were the gripes I had with QRZ, and I wanted to correct them.

I am most disappointed with your accusation that we will begin banning folks for whatever reasons you allude to, just like QRZ does. I just recently made comment that this is what I most feared, that we will begin purging the ranks of people we just don't like.

Yes, right now at this point in time, I am very seriously considering vacating my staff position. What once was a labor of good intentions is quickly becoming a chore. I will likely choose to not continue for that reason. I want this to move along without fanfare or drama, and most of all, I want the site to continue. I'm certainly not always right, and for whatever reason, I've enjoyed considerable 'sway' within the staff, but I assure you that as a group, this staff is the best at what they do, and that's all about giving everyone a forum where they feel welcomed, and may have their say without fear of retalition. I challenge anyone interested to do a better job of that mission.

January 17 is the 6 year anniversary of HamIsland. I sincerely hope there are many more to come, with or without me being on the staff.

Happy New Year to everyone!

[kf0rt]

Thought of you when I saw this, Dave... ;)
8480

[ad4mg]

Well, this sucks. I had no idea Luke left.


Ive been here a long time and i hate to see it disbanding like this. So this is how it ends?

I'm not leaving, I'm just giving some serious thought to vacating my position on the staff. The reasons are not really what I want to discuss, but sheer burnout plays a big part. I've made many friends here on the Island, and I really don't think my not being on the staff is going to have a huge impact. The staff on this site is very good at what they do, and I fully expect this will continue for a long time to come!

[WØTKX]

Thanks for the concern, Steve. I certainly understand Luke's feelings, and agree.

I've been wondering about leaving my well paid position here for about a year. I'd still hang out, but then I'd actually feel more like trolling the crap out of certain individuals than caring about it. So it's probably best if I stick around, for now. Besides, Facebook kind of sucks. :lol:

[W4GPL]

Luke and Dave are in a long line.. as I've seriously considered giving it up too..

There's a certain disharmony that has developed that I have no desire to participate in. FWIW, one of our admins is a key component of this...

[N7YA]

I'm not leaving, I'm just giving some serious thought to vacating my position on the staff. The reasons are not really what I want to discuss, but sheer burnout plays a big part. I've made many friends here on the Island, and I really don't think my not being on the staff is going to have a huge impact. The staff on this site is very good at what they do, and I fully expect this will continue for a long time to come!


Thats good, i enjoy your posts, and have thus far enjoyed your moderating. But i understand. I dont see this place, despite feeble attempts by some, as 'turning into the Zed'....but more like a ham radio Facebook at times. And like FB, i sometimes need to step back from it and unplug.

I have always held this site, and the way it has been run, in high regard. Above any other ham forum ive been on....and ive been on ham forums since '96. No other site has warranted nearly 10k posts from me, this one has.

No, i dont think this place is going to go away, nor do i think its turning into the Zed...which i was also a participant...but i guess people and priorities change. I have been steadily backing out of political discussions over the last year or two, maybe you've noticed.

[N7YA]

Luke and Dave are in a long line.. as I've seriously considered giving it up too..

There's a certain disharmony that has developed that I have no desire to participate in. FWIW, one of our admins is a key component of this...


I picked up on this. You have to make the best decisions you can for yourself....having a dark cloud over your head because of an internet forum on a ham radio website sounds silly. Either way, like Luke, i have really enjoyed your company here and dont look forward to seeing you go. I even recently made a donation to keep the site going, but i cant bring myself to disagree with you.

[KA9MOT]

Wow guys... I'm sorry I was a smart ass about the QRZ thing. I really don't believe that this site is turning into DA ZED. I know it is not and for the most part I feel more comfortable here on the Island then any other forum I have ever frequented. Yeah, we have our asshats, but I have always felt free to say what I wished without regard to being penalized for saying it.

I also like DA ZED and spend a considerable amount of time there, but I always wonder if somebody takes something I say in the wrong way (which happens to me all the time) I might get shit canned. I'd rather be here and I really have zero problem with the mods. Y'all do a very good job.

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[WØTKX]

The best way to do this "job" is to set things up for slow growth and minimal intervention. This may be considered poor management by some, but it's something I staunchly believe in... Luke and Jeff do too. After my personal experiences in running old-skool FidoNet and other linked BBS systems, none of the poo flinging here surprises me.

Trying to float ideas and ideals as in an actual discussion gets overwhelmed with poo in a free wheeling environment. But, too many rules, and it's absolutely no fun, eh? This is a community that evolves, all the staff can do is try to set the pre existing conditions, prune or graft a little, and watch.

The Island is what it is at any given point in time because of the interaction of the membership far more than any intervention by the staff. Excepting the very rare ban hammer incidents, with member input being key here. For the most part, this is a very wide open environment. Thank goodness. Remember, just because somebody has the keys, it's not a position of power. It's Janitorial.

Turd Blossoms for Everyone! :lol:

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[WØTKX]

Yea.

As Sheriff of Fairfax County, what would you do?

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[PA5COR]

I'm an admin on a large satellite board for 10 years now.
Personal experience is simple, staff ccannot change the people, just try to do their best to lead the direction the board goes in like herding sheep.
The members of the board will make ( or break) the board, my simple advise to all here is treat everyone like you want to be treated yourself.

There is no problem to be adversaries in mostly political opinions, but we can at least try to stay civil to eachother, something i missed the last months here, and the reason my participation dropped along with my personal situation.

I always considered us friends here with banter and even having total antagonising positions, we were able to keep it civilised.
Maybe it was the influx from over yonder setting off the almost hatefull responses, and reactions and i can fully understand the staff feeelings about throwing in the towel.
Moderating or being admin should be fun, and just as member an extra task to perform.
Looking at the poo flinging lately and personal attacks here that became a mess.

I'm just a forreigner looking in from over the pond, but i hate seeing what has changed the Island the last months.
Albi would have expressed it 1 million percent better as me....
Take care brothers and sisters.
Don't waste what we have here.
That would really ruin my day seriously...

[W3WN]

I'm not leaving, I'm just giving some serious thought to vacating my position on the staff. The reasons are not really what I want to discuss, but sheer burnout plays a big part. I've made many friends here on the Island, and I really don't think my not being on the staff is going to have a huge impact. The staff on this site is very good at what they do, and I fully expect this will continue for a long time to come!Good. I'd hate to see you leave.

If you want to step away from staff duty, that's understandable. But leaving the Island altogether? That would be unfortunate. You're one of the people who keep this place fun, it would not be the same without you.

[W3WN]

Yea.

As Sheriff of Fairfax County, what would you do?I'll throw in my 2 cents here...

We have had a few induhviduals over the last year whose purpose for participating is promoting their own egos, not participating in discussions, or pun contests, or jokes, or any of the other good things that go on around here.

I suspect that the staff has been reluctant to tell them to knock it off, or to leave, without giving them plenty of time to mend their ways. And that's the problem -- they're not interested in mending their ways, just in promoting chaos and mischief and the hell with everyone else.

Yes, I understand that everyone comes here with a clean slate. Sadly, exceptions may have to be made. When the notorious gunslinger shows up with two pistols on his belt, a rifle over one shoulder, a shot gun over the other, and plenty of ammo on his body -- and we won't even mention what's in his travel bags on his horse -- well, sometimes the sheriff has to tell him to behave or else, not turn a blind eye because he hasn't done anything, yet, in THIS jurisdiction. (Even if said gunslinger is The Man With No Name, but enough riffs on spaghetti Westerns...)

In other words, sometimes induhviduals have earned their soiled reputations elsewhere. And they're proud of their poo flinging. When they show up, and as time goes on they will, this category needs a warning and a probationary period -- for OUR sake.

Is it fair? No. But it is neccesary. IMHO. YMMV; VWPBL(STn).

[KC2UGV]

Has the QRZ moderatorship styles started rubbing off on the Island Mods? Is the power so great, that mere mortals are unable to prevent it from morphing to NAZI Tactics?

NO GUN DISCUSSION FOR YOU!


There's not a rule of "No gun discussion". It's a rule of "Gun discussions go into one thread". I thought that was made pretty plain by the staff, and I think it's best for the forum too.

[N2CHX]

Things have definitely changed here lately. The disharmony has been disconcerting. This is why I largely stay away from the gun and related threads, because it's just so much nonsense and never gets anyone anywhere. My 11 and 13 year old daughters used to get into arguments which would escalate into them standing there facing each other, slapping each others hands up and down while yelling at each other. When I read some of the "debates" here, this is exactly what comes to mind. Unfortunately, I don't see it getting any better. Politics has divided this country so deeply, it seems many people who were once friends, now can't find room to remain friendly because the division is so deep. It's sad, because then we lose great people like Luke, who has been among the strongest voices of reason on this island.

There's a reason I keep coming here. I haven't always agreed with the way things were done, but I've changed and I think staff has also listened to my concerns in the past. I could find other places to post. I'm not new to forums and I have always enjoyed them. I like the core group of people here, although we've all had our moments. That said, I don't like the direction things have been headed in. I don't have any say in it, so I just go with the flow and other than trying to help ward off some of the poison that's washed up here lately (OInK OInK, etc) I pretty much just try to stay out of the manure pile.

In closing, I think it's a pretty serious thing when core members of staff start questioning their roles and continuation here. I freakin' hope everyone is paying attention and cares enough about this place to examine our roles and behavior in all this.

My half pence.

[N7YA]

I avoid that fucking gun thread. It sucks...but im glad its there.

[K7SGJ]

I've only been here a couple of years, and probably came here for the same reason as most of the others; the moderation, participants, and freedom to discuss anything with very few restrictions. Like others have mentioned, I have also opted to stay out of most of the political discussions and other heated topics. Mostly because it was fruitless, and more often than not, they turned into a hateful exchange of words, and only caused the few die hard participants to further dig in and try to outdo the others, using the same verbiage, over and over and over. I think most of the "regulars" on here know exactly how most of the other "regulars" feel about certain topics, and know they will never change their posture, and yet, they still engage them post after post after post. C'mon, no one is going to change anyone's position on anything.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I came here to have some fun, jerk a few chains, and pass along my wish that everyone get laid. It is a shame that the anger and hate that is dividing the country, has spilled over to a place like this, causing friends to become combatants on hot button issues. I really hate to see this happen, and I really hope the prevailing direction in which this site is heading changes, and quickly. It might be the other site saw the writting on the wall and is the reason political, religious, and other controversial topics have been forbidden. But this site, due mainly to the efforts of the staff, have allowed unfettered discussions on everything and anything, and I believe this privilege of unrestricted exchange, has been somewhat abused.

I don't know about anyone else, but I never thought this misfit would find such a place as this. Especially centered around the common hobby of ham radio. It would be a great loss to lose this site, any of the staff or mods, or see it become like all the other sites. Maybe with a little self control and thought prior to making a post, we, the inhabitants, can guide this place back in a direction that brought us all together in the first place.

With very few exceptions, I like it here, and would like to see a more civil exchange between the membership.

I hope you all get laid.

[N7YA]

Maybe just a good fart is all we need.

8482

[suddenseer]

I have seen the gradual shift in the packet flow as well. It is indeed sad to witness, but the buried issues need to float to the top and be expressed. Maybe some have noticed that my posting activities have decreased. I have noticed the tear in the veil and am hoping it can be repaired before it rips in two. Maybe it needs to rip. I second the post made by Travis that this place is more than a board. I have met some wonderful folks from here, and talked to a few on the air as well.

It seems to me the petty hobby horses that we all ride on as we "fling poo" at each other has become predictable, and tiring for many of us. I don't have to read between the lines anymore. When owners, admins, mods grow weary of the tasks that eat away so much of their time, I too start to wonder about the amount of my time spent here. There is also a small amount of money spent as well, but money can be tapped into again unlike time. We all are investing a part of ourselves here. So far, I tend to think my small investment has been worth it. I think we all can see value in the IOMH or we would not even at the least waste our time reading, and lurking.

I only posted once in the aforementioned gun thread. I only expressed my dismay at the vitriol being generated from all sides of the pro gun/anti gun argument while the bodies of the real victims of the tragedy were still warm. it seemed to go unnoticed in the midst of the "poo flinging". I learned as a child that "poo flinging" can not only be a fun sport to participate in, it can be just as much fun to observe. I was given this life lesson at the age of 10 at the Columbus, Ohio zoo. The zoo had a section devoted to members of the chimp family. There was a man made chimp environment where the viewer can observe chimp activities safely behind a glass partition. The chimps were divided in 2 groups, and they were indeed "flinging poo", as well as engaging in family sexual activities. One of the chimps defecated in his hands, and threw the poo at the crowd. Many people ducked to avoid being hit. They were reminded of the partition as the poo splattered on the glass. The chimp grinned, and walked over to the small water fountain/pond and washed his hands. I think he was pleased with himself by making those pesky humans duck. I can, "fling poo" with the best of them. Most of the time I am content in watching others. Once in awhile, i catch myself ducking. Are the social interactions of life merely one big poo flinging contest? Maybe we are wired to enjoy this activity, and we are merely growing weary of playing with the same people. I am not wise enough to provide a 'fits all sizes' answer for everyone.

[KB3LAZ]

I apologize but in some respects I find this all amusing. How so? Because all of the turmoil comes mainly from two forums both of which rarely have anything to do with amateur radio. While both boards are rather active, one of which being the most active, they are not they only active boards. If you recall, we had this issue with a particular board a few years back. It ran away for a bit but ended up coming back, though, not nearly as active as it once was.

People, otherwise friendly, always have and always well get pissy over political and or strong content. Particularly content that is highly opinion based. As well as stress relief related boards. One board serves to work on the nerves of members where as another draws outside attention.

[W7XF]

<snip>I've been wondering about leaving my well paid position here for about a year.<snip>

Well, what do you want for a salary??? An unlimited supply of über-top shelf likker??? More Island babes in LESS clothing?? More mahi??? :)

[kb2vxa]

At the height of the discord OINK showed up and my interest in posting turned into a railroad, Lackawanna. What little I posted was offbeat humor sandwiched between flames and largely ignored. When OINK was expelled things started to quiet down and so did my thoughts of leaving, now I'm glad I stayed. OINK was merely a coincidence BTW used to mark the timeline, the whole ball of wax was getting on my last nerve. With a few exceptions I avoid you've come to your senses, we aren't .313 monkeys, we're Misfits so let's keep it that way. It's a new year with a new attitude so right, Morans are tugboats and Misfits tug chains... hmmm.

[WØTKX]

http://youtu.be/bcsJmkR2_1g


http://youtu.be/bcsJmkR2_1g




You're a misfit, afraid of yourself, so you run away and hide
You've been a misfit all your life
Why don't you join the crowd
And come inside
You wander round this town like you've lost your way
You had your chance in your day
Yet you threw it all away
But you know what they say
Every dog has his day

Look at all the losers and the mad eyed gazers
Look at all the looneys and the sad eyed failures
They're giving up living 'cos they just don't care
So take a good look around
The misfits are everywhere
La la la la la la

[N7YA]

Yeah, i can only overload on negativity for pointless reasons for so long before i need to make shit silly again.

What am i saying? I never get involved in the gun threads....or the global warming threads beyond a few posts questioning why everyone is pissing down eachothers throats. This wont change. If everyone can calm the fuck down, we can get back to fart jokes. I intend to do this.

8489

[kf0rt]

Yeah, i can only overload on negativity for pointless reasons for so long before i need to make shit silly again.

What am i saying? I never get involved in the gun threads....or the global warming threads beyond a few posts questioning why everyone is pissing down eachothers throats. This wont change. If everyone can calm the fuck down, we can get back to fart jokes. I intend to do this.

8489

NOW we're cookin' with gas. ;)

[WA4TM]

NOW we're cookin' with gas. ;)

Don't strike any matches!

[N7YA]

8490

[KG4CGC]

Disharmony. Because I'll not let the batshitters take over this place just like they've taken over every other site on the web.
Like Travis said, this place is our home, not another forum.

[KG4CGC]

We could always close the Politico section for 30 days just as an effort to get everyone to focus elsewhere.

Of note. Every site I am a member of, no matter the area of interest, if it has a politic section there are always those vociferous boisters from the right side of the aisle throwing in the usual talking point of the day. Stay with me here. No matter site, they always coordinate as if they got their orders from Murdoch himself. Having tired long ago of the constant barrage coming from the right, I decided that I would be one of those voices to tell them to go fuck themselves and to shut the fuck up because the nation doesn't want what they're selling. They've got themselves so convinced that they're right that they believe that everyone in the country believes as they do.

Now don't cry to me that left wingers do it too because we wouldn't have to if you, right wingers, knew when to shut the fuck up. Because when we remain silent you continue your tirades with, "See! They're silent because they can't counter our reasoning, or they know we're right and that's why they're not saying anything." You simply can not go through life ignoring the bully. The only way to deal with them is to punch them right square in the face until they go down. That is what the right wing of America has become and worships, the bully. You'll also see the tit for tat poster who will give payback for every topic that is pro liberal by posting an anti liberal or pro neocon thread. Mind you, again, I didn't start it but I certainly decided to answer to the plethora right wing bullshit and thus, due to my being vocal, the Island has been deemed a haven for libtards.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to stay out of politics for a month just to see what happens. I once stayed away from the site altogether because the rightwingers were complaining that new right wing members wouldn't join because they were afraid they would get run off. While I was gone, not one right winger opened his mouth or joined the site. For the harmony of the site, I'll refrain from politics and I expect the rightwingers to be on their best behavior and watch their p's and q's.

[N7YA]

Remember, the Zed closed its political forum for the same reason....kinda, but still. There nothing good that comes from political "discussions".


I enjoy the other forums here, i have decided to make less appearances in the political forum here. It never accomplishes anything but anger and division. Politics is good at this. I dont want it anymore.


I like the site and i will stay as long as it stays contained to the tainted area.

[VE7DCW]

We could always close the Politico section for 30 days just as an effort to get everyone to focus elsewhere.

Of note. Every site I am a member of, no matter the area of interest, if it has a politic section there are always those vociferous boisters from the right side of the aisle throwing in the usual talking point of the day. Stay with me here. No matter site, they always coordinate as if they got their orders from Murdoch himself. Having tired long ago of the constant barrage coming from the right, I decided that I would be one of those voices to tell them to go fuck themselves and to shut the fuck up because the nation doesn't want what they're selling. They've got themselves so convinced that they're right that they believe that everyone in the country believes as they do.

Now don't cry to me that left wingers do it to because we wouldn't have to if you, right wingers, knew when to shut the fuck up. Because when we remain silent you continue your tirades with, "See! They're silent because they can't counter our reasoning, or they know we're right and that's why they're not saying anything." You simply can not go through life ignoring the bully. The only way to deal with them is to punch them right square in the face until they go down. That is what the right wing of America has become and worships, the bully. You'll also see the tit for tat poster who will give payback for every topic that is pro liberal by posting an anti liberal or pro neocon thread. Mind you, again, I didn't start it but I certainly decided to answer to the plethora right wing bullshit and thus, due to my being vocal, the Island has been deemed a haven for libtards.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to stay out of politics for a month just to see what happens. I once stayed away from the site altogether because the rightwingers were complaining that new right wing members wouldn't join because they were afraid they would get run off. While I was gone, not one right winger opened his mouth or joined the site. For the harmony of the site, I'll refrain from politics and I expect the rightwingers to be on their best behavior and watch their p's and q's.

Charles ........ in a strange way you've sort of put the point across as to why QRZ dealt with the problem of the PJ forum by eliminating it in it's entirity and toeing the line on ANY political leaning discussion by killing the said thread..... the unhappiness displayed by our Island Admin staff over the behaviour of Island members in our own political and strong opinions forum is really making me wonder if even 30 days would even be long enough to cool things down in that forum to allow saner heads to show themselves.......I myself thought that things around here on the Island would more or less get to normal after your elections there.......seems to me it's got nuttier

I'm hate seeing all these bad feelings flaring up here on the Island at the proverbial drop of a hat....it's disturbing to me :(

[N7YA]

Easy fix....i stated it above. :)

[KG4CGC]

Easy fix....i stated it above. :)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Pika_zps138a9751.jpg

[N7YA]

8493

[N8YX]

I like the site and i will stay as long as it stays contained to the tainted area.
Question for the membership:

How should the staff deal with the occasional individual who seeks to turn every non-political thread they can into one?

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[KK4AMI]

Speaking only for myself, I'm completely happy with just ignoring the occasional "off the cuff" instigator. My XYL has already whipped my ego into a wimpy, mewling little creature. You guys can't hurt my pride too much :lol:

[N7YA]

Question for the membership:

How should the staff deal with the occasional individual who seeks to turn every non-political thread they can into one?

Depends. I, for one, dont profess to know the answers to these kinds of things. Only what will bring me peace while on the forum. Any answer i may give will be good for some, not for others.

Let me clarify, for me, the 'tainted area' is the political section...for others, its a dark hobby horse. I personally dont want to ride it. I may swing through to see how it looks, maybe read a thing or two and drop a joke in...but what contribution can i give? I say, if an individual is being disruptive, the way you guys handle it currently works great. I commend the way admin comes together when it comes to trolls, despite the way some of you go at eachother, and despite the way some members may not understand the job you do, i think you guys do a hell of a job. I totally understand why some would want to step away from the job.

If you encounter someone who wont shut up about their opinion, just like always, membership goes back and forth on them until they leave, or are deemed a troll, then you guys drop warnings nicely on them. If they insist on being dicks, you give them a time out, if that doesnt work, you Burt them. Just like always, they have to earn the hammer on the island. The way you guys have handled it for 6 years has worked just fine. The only thing thats gotten out of hand is the emotion.

[KC2UGV]

Question for the membership:

How should the staff deal with the occasional individual who seeks to turn every non-political thread they can into one?

Infraction, three strikes, and then a vacation.

Or, three strikes, and restricted membership to ham radio forums only.

Just a couple of ideas.

[K7SGJ]

Infraction, three strikes, and then a vacation.

Or, three strikes, and restricted membership to ham radio forums only.

Just a couple of ideas.

That right there, the last part, is an interesting concept. Perhaps a 15 or 30 day restriction limited to only the radio forums might be a good thing, for the first time around. And go up from there. An offender can watch, but not play.

[N2CHX]

That right there, the last part, is an interesting concept. Perhaps a 15 or 30 day restriction limited to only the radio forums might be a good thing, for the first time around. And go up from there. An offender can watch, but not play.

The ultimate form of virtual torture. Muahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[W3WN]

Infraction, three strikes, and then a vacation.

Or, three strikes, and restricted membership to ham radio forums only.

Just a couple of ideas.
Three strikes, you're out: first offense: Restricted from political forums for 30 days / 1 month
Three strikes, you're out: second offense: Restricted from political forums for 90 days / 3 months
Three strikes, you're out: third offense: OK, a wise guy, hmmmm? (Sorry, channeling Curly there). 30 day vacation, return after vacation to be determined after discussion amongst the staff.

(In this context, "strike" means warning from staff to knock it off, be it public or private)

[NQ6U]

Question for the membership:

How should the staff deal with the occasional individual who seeks to turn every non-political thread they can into one?

I think a good, old-fashioned hangin' might do the trick. Been a long time since we had us a lynching here on the Island.

I'll supply the rope.

[NA4BH]

I think we should ask ourselves:

What would Brian Boitano do?

[N7YA]

Who are you?

Im Brian Dennehy...


Get the fuck outta here!

[N2CHX]

I think we should ask ourselves:

What would Brian Boitano do?

That is definitely the real question :rofl:

[suddenseer]

Question for the membership:

How should the staff deal with the occasional individual who seeks to turn every non-political thread they can into one?I think we all know who you are reffering to. The person that comes to mind makes us on the left of center look as bad as the loons on the right. Goose/Gander, pot/kettle, incubus/succubus; flame on! Put them on the raft with a 30 day rope, let them paddle around solo.

[X-Rated]

FWIW, a major issue with discussions has to do with how each of us connotes the meaning of the words here. If someone says, "Hey, Obama is like Bush," some might think that he maintains Gitmo like Bush, some might think he fires drones like Bush, some might think he cuts taxes like Bush, and some might wonder why he would be like a Reagan vice president. We write things where we leave a lot of room for others to fill in the blank, and believe me, everyone fills in the blank. Sometimes we fill it in and repeat that assumption on the thread and other times we let it fester. At times then we explode and others wonder why we are so upset.

We see what this place means to different people. To some it is a type of home. To some, it is a home they are afraid to use because they have no idea if they will be banned for stating how they feel. Even Steve asked in his original post whether this was becoming the Zed and then retracted that thought after a fashion. We each are sensitive to criticism. a) He doesn't want to be banned and b) He wants to remain popular. Can't blame anybody for that.


...while others say far worse are allowed to stay because they are more popular?

Several here have noticed this and spoken to me about this with real specific references.

A lot of this boils down to the fact that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't all know about. While I don't believe that there is anything sinister intended, some issues leave others to wonder why things are the way they are. No one has to explain anything except to say that there is more to all this than what is in the threads.

Also, some mods have jumped in to assume that some members are specifically do things to achieve some sinister goal. That may or may not be the case. But the assumptions do roll both ways.

Some are saying that the political discussions need to cool down for a period. From what? They're political discussions. Was the remark Boehner reportedly made without malice or feeling? These are issues we each need to think about. Of course they invoke emotion. The idea of losing money or loved ones will evoke emotion out of many of us, and to a large extent that is what politics is all about; taking loved ones or money and being creative while doing it.

Each of us have ideas on how things should be run. It seems easy to think, "Well Jeff should do this, that and the other thing." When in reality, changing the parameters of this will adversely affect that and the other thing when it was unintended. It is easy to say that a decision should be made if you are not the one having to be concerned with the consequences. We see that in political arguments where people say in the same sentence, "I believe that people should be responsible for their own actions and that is why I am against certain people getting sued for what they do." This is an attitude that says that they have other people who worry about their affairs and have not had to make difficult decisions. In the real world actions have consequences.

I hope that this is taken in the proper context. There is a lot of tension and anxiety, but if this is a family, it can be all worked out properly without too many feelings getting crushed.

[K7SGJ]

It seems to me, and I only speak for myself, that many of the hot issues just get beat to death. The same arguments are made by the same people time and again. As of late, there is a lot more anger and venom being spewed. If you go back and look at the gun threads, as an example, every single one contains the same statements by the same people over and over. Why argue the same argument with the same outcome? I don't get very involved in most of these threads, but I do read them until I get tired of the repetition. I know who are the pro gun and anti gun people, and pretty much what they will say to bolster their position. Same with most of the political threads. I can't believe I am the only one who has noticed where who stands on what issues. I can't see any of the major players changing their position, and will only defend it with what they feel is a logical argument, albeit the same one ad naseum.

Like some one noted earlier, I too, thought this shit would cool off after the elections, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They still go on, along with the gun threads, and to a minor degree, religion.

Personally, I don't give a fuck how anyone feels about anything. It's my opinion that counts anyway, and no one will change my mind. After all, it's all about me.

[X-Rated]

It seems to me, and I only speak for myself, that many of the hot issues just get beat to death. The same arguments are made by the same people time and again. As of late, there is a lot more anger and venom being spewed. If you go back and look at the gun threads, as an example, every single one contains the same statements by the same people over and over. Why argue the same argument with the same outcome? I don't get very involved in most of these threads, but I do read them until I get tired of the repetition. I know who are the pro gun and anti gun people, and pretty much what they will say to bolster their position. Same with most of the political threads. I can't believe I am the only one who has noticed where who stands on what issues. I can't see any of the major players changing their position, and will only defend it with what they feel is a logical argument, albeit the same one ad naseum.

Like some one noted earlier, I too, thought this shit would cool off after the elections, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They still go on, along with the gun threads, and to a minor degree, religion.

Personally, I don't give a fuck how anyone feels about anything. It's my opinion that counts anyway, and no one will change my mind. After all, it's all about me.

As for topics being beat to death, the devil is in the detail. For example, in one thread, some people claim that some products are banned in a certain state. When the details are ascertained, it is found that there is no banning, but rather a misconception. At that point there is no need to go further as the other people are wrong and that product is not banned in this country.

There are still politicians wanting to take money from certain people. That doesn't go away after an election. There are some who want to see certain people's loved ones at a higher risk of moving to another form rather than life. That doesn't change after an election.

The religion forum is separate. If you don't want to be there, I don't understand why you would want to go. I was the original Religion Forum Mod. It was a challenge. Some people feel like that if the topic is religion, they have carte blanche to step on toes because they have a certified card that says religion is BS. Here again the idea of what each of us connotes in the topic drives the discussion far and wide. Where one person sees comfort in religion, others see hatred. In this site, it is difficult to get past the extreme mindsets in the topic of religion and religious teachings. But some believe that since they perceive issues in consistency that the whole thing is no good. That doesn't fly with other concepts. Such as, "Religion is crap! People start wars in the name of religion. Religion should be banned!" Moving that concept to another area, we have, "Radios are crap! People start wars with radios. Radios should be banned!" We have what we have and we should learn to build on that to make the world a better place.

And to many the details are too much to handle. They are relegated to following others who do not feel that details are too much to handle or make you feel that they do not feel that details are too much to handle. In that way, you can follow what others think about a certain topic and live with the results that they prepare for you. Attorneys are such a type of people who we are to pay and trust to feed us with the ideas to take the right path that will help us. If they tell you wrong, you probably won't know the difference anyway because they know all the details of your endeavor. OTOH, they may give perfect advice and you may not trust that advice because it is not getting you to where you thought it would in a given amount of time. In either case, you are not informed of the details to know the difference and are relegated to follow others.

[K7SGJ]

While much of what you post is probably true, the point I was trying to make was that in a thread of over 1600 posts, for instance, many the same people are making many of the same arguments with many of the same talking points made in every other thread of the same topic. Maybe if something new and fresh was presented it might be different, or so it seems to me. I guess I, like other non participants, am guilty for going to some of these threads and reading the posts and seeing the hate and disrespect that reeks from the majority of what's posted. It's the old train wreck syndrome I guess. Ya just can't help but look.

[N7YA]

I dont think anything should be banned on the island outside of outright disruption, and only after being warned. Everything else is par on this course. As for the elections, i had hoped things would mellow out, but i neglected to take into account the gloating, and much worse, the butthurt and accusations of treachery. No matter who won.

[W7XF]

Who are you?

Im Brian Dennehy...


Get the fuck outta here!

GET OFF MUH LAWN!

[kb2vxa]

Always the same people saying the same things over and over up and down and round and round like a merry go round, see one and you've seen them all. So that having been said by yet another (I hear an echo in here) why bother? Why are we having a discussion about what everybody knows? Move along now, nothing to see here, just skip over them. For that matter here's one for the circular logic crowd somewhat edited...

You're probably wondering
Why I'm here
And so am I
So am I

Just as much as you wonder
'Bout me bein' in this place
(Yeah!)
That's just how much I marvel
At the lameness on your face
You rise each day the same old way
And join your friends out on the street
Spray your hair
And think you're neat
I think your life is incomplete
But maybe that's not for me to say
They only pay me here to play

(I wanna hear Caravan with a drum sola!)

You're probably wondering
Why I'm here
And so am I
So am I

Just as much as you wonder
'Bout me starin' back at you
(Yeah!)
That's just how much I question
The corny things you do

Just as much as you wonder
If I mean just what I say
(Yeah!)
That's just how much I question
The social games you play

You're probably wondering
Why I'm here
(Not that it makes a heck of a lot of a difference to ya)

[X-Rated]

While much of what you post is probably true, the point I was trying to make was that in a thread of over 1600 posts, for instance, many the same people are making many of the same arguments with many of the same talking points made in every other thread of the same topic. Maybe if something new and fresh was presented it might be different, or so it seems to me. I guess I, like other non participants, am guilty for going to some of these threads and reading the posts and seeing the hate and disrespect that reeks from the majority of what's posted. It's the old train wreck syndrome I guess. Ya just can't help but look.

For me, I look at one person post the words "Thus, for the keeping and bearing of a certain item to be constitutionally protected, the certain item should be a militia-type certain item", and then when I agree with the court opinion, the same person writes, "No where does that say the right to owning a certain item is restrained by what would further a well regulated militia," and I scratch my head. What could I be missing? Where is the train wreck? He posts the statement and then denies it is true.

[KA9MOT]

There's not a rule of "No gun discussion". It's a rule of "Gun discussions go into one thread". I thought that was made pretty plain by the staff, and I think it's best for the forum too.

A thread entitled, "The Gun Debate - The one thread to rule them all...." And that was my point. The closed thread wasn't a debate. Unfortunately I chose the wrong attitude and words to make my point. One day I'll learn to think before I post.

And sorry about the long delay... Been sick.

[KG4CGC]

I think a good, old-fashioned hangin' might do the trick. Been a long time since we had us a lynching here on the Island.

I'll supply the rope.

Pope soap on a rope made of dope? We all hope. Don't grope on a slope. Nope.

[X-Rated]

A thread entitled, "The Gun Debate - The one thread to rule them all...." And that was my point. The closed thread wasn't a debate. Unfortunately I chose the wrong attitude and words to make my point. One day I'll learn to think before I post.

And sorry about the long delay... Been sick.

That is a good point. There is a difference between "discussion" and "debate".

Link (http://www.greatplacetowork.com/publications-and-events/blogs-and-news/1064-debate-discussion-dialogue)


Debate is combative and seeks to be victorious; it wants to express itself and say it is better than you. Discussion can be described as debate trying to play nice. Much like debate, it is interested in advocating its view points and challenging those of others.

However, this article outlines "dialogue" as well.


Dialogue, on the other hand, seeks to find a shared connection. It is not concerned with winning or losing, rather it aspires to listen more deeply, understand more fully, and build a collective point of view. When the diversity of personality and opinion present moments of conflict and tension, dialogue steps in and mediates the conversation back to a renewed sense of connection.

In the "Gun Debate" thread, the first post uses the word, "discussions". However, I think we would all be better off if we worked towards a dialogue in these posts.

[n2ize]

I see no problem with the political forum here. First of all, nobody is forcing anyone to go there. Second, stop taking it all so seriously. Of course you are not going change anyones mind. You could be a Ph.D with 50 years of expertise and be 100% correct and present endless facts to prove yourself yet as far as anyone is concerned you are not going to convince them that they are wrong and you are right. As far as they are concerned you are just as clueless as everyone else. So all it really is for is sharing current events, ideas, and having informal debate. Furthermore, nothing said on the political forum is going to change the world. If you want to influence politics you need to become active in real life, not on a political sub-forum on a ham radio site.

I feel that people take it too seriously and get too emotionally involved. Relax, let it go. Does it really matter so much if the other guy disagree's with you or expresses an opinion that is the exact opposite of what you think is right ? No it doesn't because when you log off it's not going to make a bit of difference to you, the other guy, to me, or to the world. Take it for what it is. Laugh and don't take it all so seriously.

[X-Rated]

For a large part, I am learning a lot in these threads. Finding out what people think and flaws in my own ways of thinking are a few. But the idea here by the OP wasn't to change minds on the threads, but to find out why threads that he felt did not fit the criteria for the Gun Debate thread were being locked. And indeed, the immigration thread was even locked for being a gun thread.

But even here by reading your post, we can learn how people can change the subject of the discussion to suit their needs and comment on that rather than the OP's desired topic and discussing that subject. Now we can go out in other areas and be more keen at spotting these methods.

[n2ize]

For a large part, I am learning a lot in these threads. Finding out what people think and flaws in my own ways of thinking are a few. But the idea here by the OP wasn't to change minds on the threads, but to find out why threads that he felt did not fit the criteria for the Gun Debate thread were being locked. And indeed, the immigration thread was even locked for being a gun thread.

But even here by reading your post, we can learn how people can change the subject of the discussion to suit their needs and comment on that rather than the OP's desired topic and discussing that subject. Now we can go out in other areas and be more keen at spotting these methods.

Your thinking too deep and trying to analyze things too much. Relax, let it go. This is not a college debating venue. It's just a bunch of people saying whats on their minds.

[N2NH]

Luke and Dave are in a long line.. as I've seriously considered giving it up too..

There's a certain disharmony that has developed that I have no desire to participate in. FWIW, one of our admins is a key component of this...

NOOOOOOO!

http://denisefath.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/fear.jpg

[WØTKX]

Ooooooo H E double hockey stick graphs? :lol: