Too far gone?

[w2amr]

My neighbor gave me this last week. It's an Atwater Kent model 487, pre 1936. The veneer is peeling off of the cabinet, and several pieces are broken off. The speaker, ant, and one knob are missing, and the tuning assembly is frozen. It may be just too far gone.
82838284

[N2CHX]

That poor thing. I don't know much of anything about restoring the veneer. That would be the only real challenge I could see.

[KB3LAZ]

I have seen your work, if it can be done, you can do it. :) Enjoy the challenge.

[w2amr]

That poor thing. I don't know much of anything about restoring the veneer. That would be the only real challenge I could see.
That's not my thing either. Even if I could find somebody to repair the cabinet, it would probably cost more then the radio is worth.

[KB3LAZ]

That's not my thing either. Even if I could find somebody to repair the cabinet, it would probably cost more then the radio is worth.
QQ I wanted to see a project.

Anyway, my silver tone had a few nicks in it. Nothing near that bad. I used some putty to fill it. :P Soooooo in the end there was a dark spot. Works well and you cant tell because on the back bottom corner. :D

[w2amr]

QQ I wanted to see a project.

Anyway, my silver tone had a few nicks in it. Nothing near that bad. I used some putty to fill it. :P Soooooo in the end there was a dark spot. Works well and you cant tell because on the back bottom corner. :D
Does it look anything like this?
8285

[KB3LAZ]

Does it look anything like this?
8285

Not 100% but that is pretty damn close. I dont think I have any photos but if I do they are back in the states. My grandpa bought it for I think 5$ at a flea market.

[N8YX]

I saw receivers like those set out for the trash when I was in my teens. And with no way to get them home via bicycle, of course.

Occasionally I did get lucky when someone threw out a mid-to-high end stereo receiver from the period...for parts if for nothing else.

[w2amr]

Not 100% but that is pretty damn close. I dont think I have any photos but if I do they are back in the states. My grandpa bought it for I think 5$ at a flea market.I picked this one up at a fester about 15 years ago. Cleaned it up, recapped it, and it's been working great ever since.

[n2ize]

George, if anyone can restore it you can. You have a lot more patience than me when it comes to finer restoration work. Also, I have seen old radios that were in much worst shape than that which have been 100% restored and are working. I don't just think you can restore it, I KNOW you can restoire that radio. I have seen the fine work you have done restoring things in the past.

[n2ize]

I saw receivers like those set out for the trash when I was in my teens. And with no way to get them home via bicycle, of course.

Occasionally I did get lucky when someone threw out a mid-to-high end stereo receiver from the period...for parts if for nothing else.

I remember when I was a lad I found a very old Motorola TV set with the original round picture tube. It was sitting out in front of someones house for the trash. I brought it home planning to restore it (I was like 14 years old at the time and just getting interested in electronics) but much to my dismay my local peers (guys and gals around my age) got to it before I did. The picture tube was broken and most of the tubes were pulled and smashed for fun. I wound up scrapping it for parts. Got a nice power transformer, a few tubes that had escaped the wrath of the local youths, condensers, resistors, assorted transformers, HV components, etc.

[w2amr]

George, if anyone can restore it you can. You have a lot more patience than me when it comes to finer restoration work. Also, I have seen old radios that were in much worst shape than that which have been 100% restored and are working. I don't just think you can restore it, I KNOW you can restoire that radio. I have seen the fine work you have done restoring things in the past.
Thanks for the vote of confidence John, I'll think on it.

[NQ6U]

The veneers necessary for the cabinet repairs are available, not prohibitively expensive and, given your proximity to the NYC area, probably not hard to find either.

[w2amr]

The veneers necessary for the cabinet repairs are available, not prohibitively expensive and, given your proximity to the NYC area, probably not hard to find either.Yeah, but I'll fuck it up trying to put it on. :lol:

[KB3LAZ]

I picked this one up at a fester about 15 years ago. Cleaned it up, recapped it, and it's been working great ever since.

The insides of mine were pretty decent. It was the outside that needed some work. All in all for the 5$ + 20$ or so invested, I have no complaints. It is missing a button though. No big deal.

[w2amr]

I found a schematic, this is for the speaker. One side of a transformer seems to be in series with the speaker field coil. Then the other side goes to the speaker voice coil.
8295

[N8YX]

I found a schematic, this is for the speaker. One side of a transformer seems to be in series with the speaker field coil. Then the other side goes to the speaker voice coil.
8295
Dynamic (rather than PM) speaker. The designers often used the field transformer as part of the filtering scheme in a choke-filtered power supply but that may not be the case with yours.

[w2amr]

Wonder if i could use a permanent magnet speaker and replace the field coil with a choke.

[N8YX]

Wonder if i could use a permanent magnet speaker and replace the field coil with a choke.
Yessir, you could.

IIRC, the dynamic coil approach was used to get more low-frequency response from the speaker for a lower drive power. Put a big enough PM speaker in there and you probably won't notice a difference.

[w2amr]

Yessir, you could.

IIRC, the dynamic coil approach was used to get more low-frequency response from the speaker for a lower drive power. Put a big enough PM speaker in there and you probably won't notice a difference.
hummmmm:chin:

[w2amr]

This pretty much covers it.
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=207328

[kb2vxa]

They sure know how to complicate things, to use a PM speaker simply replace the field coil with a common 8H 90mA choke. The hum bucking coil if I remember was in series with the heater line so the socket connection is jumped. As an aside, the coil was connected out of phase to cancel hum introduced by the AC ripple current. BTW the comment about the coil and bass response made me laugh, it may be lacking with an old Alnico V magnet the size of a peanut but not so with a hefty ferrite.

[w2amr]

They sure know how to complicate things, to use a PM speaker simply replace the field coil with a common 8H 90mA choke. The hum bucking coil if I remember was in series with the heater line so the socket connection is jumped. As an aside, the coil was connected out of phase to cancel hum introduced by the AC ripple current. BTW the comment about the coil and bass response made me laugh, it may be lacking with an old Alnico V magnet the size of a peanut but not so with a hefty ferrite.Replacing the field coil with a power resistor was another bad idea.

[N8YX]

BTW the comment about the coil and bass response made me laugh, it may be lacking with an old Alnico V magnet the size of a peanut but not so with a hefty ferrite.
A good number of dynamic speakers I've seen over the years were set up in exactly that fashion - small magnet, large polarizing coil which doubled as a choke.

I also have a handbook from my youth - "Using Electronics" - where this very concept is discussed along with its effects on lower frequency speaker response.

Should you wish, I'll look up the authors and let you correct their apparent mistake but I have a feeling they're long since deceased.

[wa6mhz]

They have Antique Radio swapmeets here in SoCal every few months, and I see many nice radios like that. I could have brought home one very close to that for about $50 last November. I did bring home 5 wood radios as it is. One Cathedral, One Tombstone and 3 Table radios. Each requires a certain amount of wood work and that is very tedious, yet very satisfying while doing it.

Yesterday, I spent all morning and afternoon sanding the 1933 Crosley Tombstone, and I STILL have about 60% to go. That is after 2 days of sanding. Have to sand down to the bare wood. This one already had the broken out verneer replaced. That is not too tough a job, just requires great care in selecting the wood to replace and applying it. I have used thin model plywood carefully cut to match the broken sections, but it is better to use the correct veneer wood. Haven't found a local source for that yet.

After sanding, I paint it with MINWAX which is a stain and coating which looks beautiful when done. Two Tone cabinets are especially attractive.

The Electronic part of it is relatively easy if you have the parts to do it. Sometimes it takes 2 radios to make one good one. I am looking for another Philco 60 to get the dial out of it, as the one I have has the inccorect dial installed and reads backwards (500 KC is 1600 KC and vice versa)

Nothing is more satifying than taking a beat up derelict hulk and restoring it to a masterpiece!
That Attwater kent has a lot of potential to be the centerpiece of a living room!

[K7SGJ]

If you have a Woodworkers Source, or equivelent, around, they have a great selection of veneers in small packs. Find one close in grain, wet it slightly, I use spit, and you will get a very good idea of what it will look like with a finish, such as clear varnish. Doing the actual veneer work is not difficult as others have mentioned, just a little time consuming. I've done several radios similar to yours, and the look great. If you decide to fix the chassis and need parts, let me know. My wife and her brother just shut down their parts business after 50+ years, and were are in the process of bringing the inventory out here to sell. So far we have 7- 40 foot cargo containers pretty well filled with millions of components and more to bring out. Trying to put 8000 sq ft of stuff in bin boxes on 7 foot shelves is a bitch. Probably need a few more containers. Anyway, she has a lot of older stuff and a good stock of disc caps, mica, hv, electrolytics of every shape and size, pots, switches, resistors from 1/8 w to 300 w, and every kind of hardware imaginable. I guess I should post this over on the suppliers sticky, but just to let you know, she probably has most any parts you might need to restore it. I think there may even be some of the old cloth covered hook up wire out there. You wouldn't happen to need a 250 foot spool of 50 pair direct burial. gopher proof cable, would you? The spool alone makes a nice table and will seat 27 people.

[w2amr]

Tnx for all the comments/input guys. Ill pull the chassis out of the cabinet, then decide if it's worth screwing with.

[kb2vxa]

To quote an instructor at the now defunct RCA Institute in NYC; get your kicks from sex, not electricity. Mind yourself now or you'll end up with a...

[w2amr]

Yesterday, I spent all morning and afternoon sanding the 1933 Crosley Tombstone, and I STILL have about 60% to go. That is after 2 days of sanding. Have to sand down to the bare wood. This one already had the broken out verneer replaced. That is not too tough a job, just requires great care in selecting the wood to replace and applying it. I have used thin model plywood carefully cut to match the broken sections, but it is better to use the correct veneer wood. Haven't found a local source for that yet.

Be sure to post some pictures of it when it's finished Pat, I would love to see it.