Windows 8 - Bottom line: not yet ready

[N1LAF]

Can You Use Windows 8 as Your Primary OS?

1. Metro is the replacement for the old start menu. It may be great for tablets, but is space-inefficient.

2. Once in the desktop, you’ll find the start menu button is gone, replaced by a Windows icon that responds with a pop-up menu when you hover your mouse cursor over it. This behavior is a little inconsistent – sometimes the pop-up fails to actually pop up, which sounds like a bug more than a feature. Clicking on the icon delivers you back to the Start Menu…er, Metro UI.

3. Office applications mostly work well. There are occasional glitches, however. Every few times I’d exit word, I would get an error dialog indicating that Word might be experiencing a compatibility mode error. Note that I never lost any data when saving and exiting, but it’s still a little disconcerting that Microsoft’s latest Office apps would have issues with Windows 8, even at its early stage.

4. I encountered more substantial issues with Adobe apps – specifically, the 64-bit version of Photoshop CS 5.1. The 32-bit version of Photoshop CS5.1 runs with no problems.

5. Managing apps as you install more and more software, can be problematic, though search works as well as it did with Windows 7. After loading up a bunch of applications and games, Metro starts to look a little cluttered. Even when you do the search for apps, you get a list that’s less than ideal. I can imagine this list becoming practically unusable for power users.

6. Deus Ex: Human Revolution proved unplayable. The mouse sensitivity was off the charts, and no amount of changing the sensitivity in-game or with the Windows control panel had any effect. Just touching the mouse would send the scene wildly panning.

7. I did attempt to run benchmarks. I quickly discovered that none of the Futuremark benchmarks: PC Mark 7, 3DMark Vantage and 3DMark 2011 – would run. PCMark 2011 would run, but hang at the first test. Both 3DMarks hung at the loading screen;

DoctorX - September 22, 2011 at 6:30pm said "Windows 8 sucks. I can understand using it for tablets, but for power users like me, it blows..."

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/can_you_use_windows_8_your_primary_os

[NQ6U]

CLINTON GOT A BJ!

NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY!

[N1LAF]

FYI: This message is hidden because KJ6BSO is on your ignore list.

[K7SGJ]

I just bought a new laptop for my brother in law, and it has Win 8 on it. I'm having a hell of a time trying to navigate the stupid screens. He isn't all that good with computers, and is comfortable with XP, but I doubt this would work since I'm sure many necessary drivers are not available for XP.

[VE7DCW]

I just bought a new laptop for my brother in law, and it has Win 8 on it. I'm having a hell of a time trying to navigate the stupid screens. He isn't all that good with computers, and is comfortable with XP, but I doubt this would work since I'm sure many necessary drivers are not available for XP.

I just installed Windows 7 Ultimate on my Acer netbook that originally had Windows 7 starter on when I bought it.....it works beautifully with the top Windows 7 OS .......but i've noticed that with 1 GB of installed Ram on this thing,this new upgraded OS just majorly gobbles resources like it's going out of style!! ......continuing the MS trend since Vista..... I'm betting that Windows 8 is a glutton on resources as well..... my main desktop computer still has Windows XP ...... and I still appreciate it's capabilities over resource hungry Windows 7 !!!! :yes:

[N1LAF]

I just bought a new laptop for my brother in law, and it has Win 8 on it. I'm having a hell of a time trying to navigate the stupid screens. He isn't all that good with computers, and is comfortable with XP, but I doubt this would work since I'm sure many necessary drivers are not available for XP.

Configuration and management of Windows and its features has become more difficult with Win 7, and bet Win 8 is even worse. Win 7 should be compatible, and Win 7 (32 bit) is more compatible with legacy programs than the 64 bit version. There aree things that can be done to Windows 7 to be more usable like XP. I think Win 8 is a sign of Microsoft in decline.

[KB3LAZ]

Many many people still use XP to this day. Personally, I prefer and am more comfortable with win 7. I should be able to milk win 7 for at least another 5 years.

[W5GA]

Methinks I'll not be getting rid of my XP install disc anytime soon.

[VE7DCW]

Methinks I'll not be getting rid of my XP install disc anytime soon.

In all honesty I'd hang on to XP as long as humanly possible ......... I still have it on my main desktop ....... and it seems to have been the most robust of any OS MS has come up with ...... my opinion,and once again I could be wrong :dunno:

[KB3LAZ]

In all honesty I'd hang on to XP as long as humanly possible ......... I still have it on my main desktop ....... and it seems to have been the most robust of any OS MS has come up with ...... my opinion,and once again I could be wrong :dunno:

I started off with win 95 then quickly went to 98 then 2000 and finally xp. I was stuck on xp for quite some time making the mistake of switching to vista but got a free upgrade to 7. I suppose due to my age I have spent the most time on 7 and am the most comfortable with it. So, 7 is my xp so to speak.

[N1LAF]

Lot of us has spent +15 years of the same interface(I started with Windows 286) with incremental improvements, until Vista. Windows 7 would be so much better if Microsoft spent more time on compatibility issues. The short comings with the Start Button/Menu legacy interface has been solved by third party. I found a big incompatibility with my main programs, like LabVIEW, was due to number of processor cores - is this a hardware of OS problem?(The Number of Core problem affects both XP and Windows 7). Still, Lots of compatibility issues I was experiencing was resolved in Windows 7 (32 bit) SP1, but still exists in 64 bit versions. If Microsoft fixed this, then I would not have a problem migrating to Windows 7. Instead of fixing Win 7, MS has moved on to Win 8.

Windows 8 is a loser for power users/corporate environment. The numbers I have seen is 41% is holding with XP, and those who moved to Win 7, most will not go to Win 8.

If/when Win 8 tanks, what will happen next?

[W5GA]

Maybe someone will write an OS besides Linux (likewise not ready for prime time) that isn't bloatware?

[N1LAF]

Maybe someone will write an OS besides Linux (likewise not ready for prime time) that isn't bloatware?

This is really an opportunity for another player to come into the picture, and that could be Oracle, with Solaris. There is an open source Solaris that can be downloaded, Oracle owns JAVA, and Oracle owns OpenOffice. Also Oracle's Larry Ellison hates Microsoft.

More general info on Solaris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_%28operating_system%29

[n2ize]

Maybe someone will write an OS besides Linux (likewise not ready for prime time) that isn't bloatware?

Well, there are several operating systems floating around out there besides Windows and Linux. There are different *nix op systems such as FreeBSD. There is BeOS, Plan 9 from Bell Labs, Google Chrome OS, and a whole host of others , some new, some old.

Far as Linux goes it works fine here. Extremely stable, fast, robust, more features than I generally need. . When I set it up on my Dad's new system the installation was flawless and all hardware worked perfectly. Generally much less problematic compared with my Windows systems. I would say it's pretty much ready for prime time. Of course "prime time" is going to depend on the type of system you have and what you expect it to do.

[NQ6U]

This is really an opportunity for another player to come into the picture, and that could be Oracle, with Solaris. There is an open source Solaris that can be downloaded, Oracle owns JAVA, and Oracle owns OpenOffice. Also Oracle's Larry Ellison hates Microsoft.

Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison were buddies, I suspect that when Oracle bought up Sun Microsystems, there was an unspoken agreement (it had to be unspoken or it would have been illegal) between the two that nothing serious would be done with Solaris, especially since Ellison was on the Apple Board of Directors for a long time. Things have changed since then, of course: Jobs is dead, Apple seems to be losing interest in building personal computers in favor of mobile phones and Ellison is no longer on the Apple board. It's entirely possible that he might reconsider and develop Solaris and Open Office into something that would really challenge Microsoft's domination in the business OS/productivity software arena. That could only be a good thing.

[n2ize]

What we really need are vast improvements in hardware. All too often I can;t get what I want out of the present day hardware.

[W5GA]

John, the problems with all the iterations of Nix is that none of them are easy to use, nor do they have a plethora of software available. For me to convert to some flavor of nix would mean giving up a LOT of software, not the least of which is my logging program. As my logger is the most feature rich I've seen, particularly in its search and reporting abilities, I'm not really anxious to do that. There is NO flavor of nix out there that doesn't require more of my inner geek than I'm willing to donate.

[N1LAF]

Doug, one way through this is to use something like VMware, where you can install Windows XP in VMware, and take it from machine to machine, as you upgrade, refresh, etc. VMware allows the resident OS to use networks, printers, USB ports, DVDROM/RAM drives, etc. You can use other OS's if you have them, like Windows 98. I have my retail copy of Windows 98 SE that I use in VMware, for those programs that do not run in 2000/XP. You can also copy between client and host OS, drag & drop files. It's worth looking at.

8092

[n6hcm]

Windows 7 would be so much better if Microsoft spent more time on compatibility issues.

only problem with this: backward compatability doesn't make them any money.

people who were interested in backward compatability bought the higher levels of windows 7 which came with "xp mode" (really: a windows xp virtual machine built in). however, not too many people did that.

[n2ize]

John, the problems with all the iterations of Nix is that none of them are easy to use, nor do they have a plethora of software available. For me to convert to some flavor of nix would mean giving up a LOT of software, not the least of which is my logging program. As my logger is the most feature rich I've seen, particularly in its search and reporting abilities, I'm not really anxious to do that. There is NO flavor of nix out there that doesn't require more of my inner geek than I'm willing to donate.

Perhaps you are right. I've been using *nix type OS's all along so for me it would be the exact opposite situation. I would be giving up a lot of software if I were to switch to Windows and I would have to become Windows saavy which I am not because I rarely use the product. As far as the "geeky" aspect of Linux that was true in the past but not so much any longer. These days there are a lot of distros that will pretty much run right out of the box with little need for specialized "geeky" skills. Matter of fact the installation and use it just like Windows or better. Another solution if I must run Windows programs is VmWare or some other virtual machine manager.

[N1LAF]

only problem with this: backward compatability doesn't make them any money.

people who were interested in backward compatability bought the higher levels of windows 7 which came with "xp mode" (really: a windows xp virtual machine built in). however, not too many people did that.

So, are we suppose to renew all our software, at a high cost, because of a new Microsoft OS? I think there is a level of expectation of using purchased software from old to new version. Apple does this. Probably why 41% of businesses are sticking with Windows XP. Is 41% a large market base? Isn't that incentive? Why piss off your customer base?

XP Mode on Win 7 just sucks. I had nothing but problems with it. VMware is so superior to MS XP mode, makes MS look really bad.

You may not be able to make all software compatible, but those who follow the API spec, they should be able to run on the next OS iteration. This lack of compatibility is just lazy. When MS went from Win98SE to 2000/XP, I had only one program not to migrate upward. When Win7 came out, more than half of my programs would not run on the new OS. To me, this is significant.

[N1LAF]

Right now, software developers would be smart to use JAVA over C and other OS specific compilers. For example, Microchip, I think has been using MS Framework/Net for software base. It is quirky. MPLAB Version 8.30 loaded fine on my XP machine, but not version 8.31. I went around and around with tech support in trying to load 8.31 (which came with a development kit board) on the XP machine. No success. It did load on a Win7 machine. Then Microchip came out with a version called 'X', Which was JAVA/Netbeans based. Loaded just fine not only on Windows XP and 7, but also on Linux and Mac OS as well.

http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en-us/family/mplabx/

[n6hcm]

So, are we suppose to renew all our software, at a high cost, because of a new Microsoft OS? I think there is a level of expectation of using purchased software from old to new version.

clearly MSFT isn't interested in you as a customer since you insist on using the operating system they're about to stop supporting.

XP mode on Win7 worked fine for me ... fewer resources required from the host OS, ran complex applications without modification. dunno what you're doing wrong ...

[NQ6U]

only problem with this: backward compatability doesn't make them any money.

Not only does it not make them any money, it causes them a lot of problems. Much of the reason that Windows was slow, clunky, insecure and bug-prone compared to some other operating systems is that, right through XP, Microsoft tried to maintain backwards software compatibility for their business clients who didn't want to pay to rewrite ancient proprietary code. It didn't work—by trying to please everyone, they ended up pleasing nobody.

[N1LAF]

clearly MSFT isn't interested in you as a customer since you insist on using the operating system they're about to stop supporting.

XP mode on Win7 worked fine for me ... fewer resources required from the host OS, ran complex applications without modification. dunno what you're doing wrong ...

With the help of Microsoft Tech support, because Internet Explorer refused to download from Microsoft Site, Microsoft logged into my computer (I gave them permission to do so) on a stock Win 7 install, they manually downloaded the Win 7 SP1 for 32bit and 64 bit, a security patch required for XP Mode, and XP Mode SP1, both 32bit and 64 bit files (I have both 32bit and 64 bit versions). They could not get IE to download from thier site (That's how bad it is). In XP Mode, running one of my problem programs, I moved the XP Mode window to the edge, went full screen, and it killed/locked up my running program. Had to end its process and rerun. I ran the same program in VMware, Windows XP, went full screen with VMware, and the program did not fault.

So, it wasn't me doing anything wrong, MS themselves could not get it to respond correctly. The tech was sarcastic about Win 8.

[n2ize]

Right now, software developers would be smart to use JAVA over C and other OS specific compilers.

For developing what ? If you are writing device drivers and.or writing lower level code C is probably the way to go., I have even written some programs that I needed to really fine tune and I went into writing assembly for that. Depends on what you are developing.

[n2ize]

So, are we suppose to renew all our software, at a high cost, because of a new Microsoft OS? I think there is a level of expectation of using purchased software from old to new version. Apple does this. Probably why 41% of businesses are sticking with Windows XP. Is 41% a large market base? Isn't that incentive? Why piss off your customer base?

XP Mode on Win 7 just sucks. I had nothing but problems with it. VMware is so superior to MS XP mode, makes MS look really bad.

You may not be able to make all software compatible, but those who follow the API spec, they should be able to run on the next OS iteration. This lack of compatibility is just lazy. When MS went from Win98SE to 2000/XP, I had only one program not to migrate upward. When Win7 came out, more than half of my programs would not run on the new OS. To me, this is significant.

This happens in almost any operating system. I wrote a really neat user app/utility using Qt on one version of Linux and when I upgraded to a new version guess what ? It was broken. The fix was not within the OS itself but the software that I wrote. New libraries omitted certain function calls or upgraded them to work better, or deprecated them, in each case requiring me to modify the applications source code to fix it. However, I have found backwards compatibility to be less of an issue on Linux as opposed to Winders. Usually the Linux distro's include legacy libraries that will handle older code. The catch is that sometimes you have to install them yourself as the may not automagically be installed.

[KC2UGV]

I just installed Windows 7 Ultimate on my Acer netbook that originally had Windows 7 starter on when I bought it.....it works beautifully with the top Windows 7 OS .......but i've noticed that with 1 GB of installed Ram on this thing,this new upgraded OS just majorly gobbles resources like it's going out of style!! ......continuing the MS trend since Vista..... I'm betting that Windows 8 is a glutton on resources as well..... my main desktop computer still has Windows XP ...... and I still appreciate it's capabilities over resource hungry Windows 7 !!!! :yes:

Stick a 4GB SD card in the slot, and let Win 7 use it as RAM Boost. Works wonderfully, well :)


In all honesty I'd hang on to XP as long as humanly possible ......... I still have it on my main desktop ....... and it seems to have been the most robust of any OS MS has come up with ...... my opinion,and once again I could be wrong :dunno:

I'd switch from XP to Win 7. Win 7 is the first in a long time that MS came out with an OS I enjoy using.


John, the problems with all the iterations of Nix is that none of them are easy to use, nor do they have a plethora of software available. For me to convert to some flavor of nix would mean giving up a LOT of software, not the least of which is my logging program. As my logger is the most feature rich I've seen, particularly in its search and reporting abilities, I'm not really anxious to do that. There is NO flavor of nix out there that doesn't require more of my inner geek than I'm willing to donate.

Chances are, you won't have to give up most of your software. It most likely will run better on newer versions of Linux than on newer versions of Windows, TBH. And, if they absolutely will not run, chances are, there is a drop-in replacement.

I'd suggest trying out one of the newer distros. They are mostly plug-and-play, assuming you don't have exotic hardware.

[N1LAF]

I'd switch from XP to Win 7. Win 7 is the first in a long time that MS came out with an OS I enjoy using.


I'd rather have an OS that supports my work, not to look at and enjoy. Think functional....

[KC2UGV]

I'd rather have an OS that supports my work, not to look at and enjoy. Think functional....

Win 7 is quite functional, and stable. Been using it for the better part of 6 months now for work. Of course, for home and real work, I use Linux.

[N1LAF]

For developing what ? If you are writing device drivers and.or writing lower level code C is probably the way to go., I have even written some programs that I needed to really fine tune and I went into writing assembly for that. Depends on what you are developing.

Applications! Who cares about drivers - boring.

I will be digging deeper into JAVA, and addressing the concerns I have about JAVA, and found what I was looking for in hardware interfaces with JAVA - JNI

[N1LAF]

Win 7 is quite functional, and stable. Been using it for the better part of 6 months now for work. Of course, for home and real work, I use Linux.

Limited functional, is stable, but not fully compatible with existing software written for XP. It is "mostly" compatible.

[KC2UGV]

Limited functional, is stable, but not fully compatible with existing software written for XP. It is "mostly" compatible.

There will always be apps that never get upgraded. I know of many that require DOS (ie, Motorola programming software). However, Win 7 is mostly compatible with older apps, and current apps have been upgraded to work.

But, this is a major reason I prefer Linux. I've yet to see an app that doesn't run, since the switch to ELF from COFF and a.out.

[n2ize]

Applications! Who cares about drivers - boring.

Because it can come in handy if you want to make a device work on a given system. It has also enabled me to open up driver source code and make changes so that it will compile and run properly and run the device I was trying to enable. Low level programming like drivers and or being able to tweak the way in which a specialized application utilizes memory, processor, resources, kernel programming may not appear as exciting as fancy Java apps but it is still extremely important and quite interesting.

[N2CHX]

Linux isn't ready for prime time? No offense but you're just not trying if you think that. I use Linux exclusively. And since a piece of software I've been using in Windows for my side business has now been obsoleted and I HAVE to upgrade, I'm now going to dump Windows on that box in favor of Linux.

There are a ton of ham radio apps for Linux, including loggers and PSK/digital mode software and software to control radios.

I used to write software for Windows. I made pretty good money doing it. Then Vista came out and obsoleted all the programming tools I had used and learned for years and I had enough of that. PHP and Java now, both are completely cross-platform compatible.

[N1LAF]

I have installed/used Linux, though there is potential, I was put off by the number of 'patches/packages' to download when installing an application, just to make the application work, and half of those connections to download patches failed. I don't need this hodge-podge OS approach. And if using the system offline, more problems. No thanks.

[N2CHX]

I have installed/used Linux, though there is potential, I was put off by the number of 'patches/packages' to download when installing an application, just to make the application work, and half of those connections to download patches failed. I don't need this hodge-podge OS approach. And if using the system offline, more problems. No thanks.

Very rarely will I run into a problem with something having broken dependencies. And the point to having the "extra" packages install with an application is so only what you need is installed, not a bunch of crap that you don't, making it more efficient. No offense but it seems like you're totally missing the point. It's not nearly as difficult as you're making it out to be.

[N2CHX]

BTW lots of extra stuff installs with windows apps too, you just don't notice them because windows is so dumbed down it does everything on the sly.

[N1LAF]

Very rarely will I run into a problem with something having broken dependencies. And the point to having the "extra" packages install with an application is so only what you need is installed, not a bunch of crap that you don't, making it more efficient. No offense but it seems like you're totally missing the point. It's not nearly as difficult as you're making it out to be.

I was going by my ONE experience with Ubuntu, could have been a fluke.

[KC2UGV]

I was going by my ONE experience with Ubuntu, could have been a fluke.

I hope it's not the experience with the circuit modeling software you posted about a while back. That installer was the biggest lump of crap that is referred to as an installer that I've ever seen.

It couldn't remember I split the install across file systems, treated all file systems as a single system when calculating disk space required, failed to register with the package manager, failed to include esoteric libraries, etc etc etc.

[n2ize]

I have installed/used Linux, though there is potential, I was put off by the number of 'patches/packages' to download when installing an application, just to make the application work, and half of those connections to download patches failed. I don't need this hodge-podge OS approach. And if using the system offline, more problems. No thanks.

You kidding ?? What distro were you using ? Early Slackware / tarball only distro ? basically all I need to do to install and application is

# yum install "package-name"...

It connects to the needed repositories, downloads the app + dependencies and then I just run it. And I don't care what kind of system you are running. f you are offline even Windows is gonna balk and barf. Besides, these days all my systems are online 24/7/365 barring any hurricanes or tornadoes. :)

[kf0rt]

Linux isn't ready for prime time? No offense but you're just not trying if you think that. I use Linux exclusively. And since a piece of software I've been using in Windows for my side business has now been obsoleted and I HAVE to upgrade, I'm now going to dump Windows on that box in favor of Linux.

There are a ton of ham radio apps for Linux, including loggers and PSK/digital mode software and software to control radios.

I used to write software for Windows. I made pretty good money doing it. Then Vista came out and obsoleted all the programming tools I had used and learned for years and I had enough of that. PHP and Java now, both are completely cross-platform compatible.

I'd probably be firmly in the Linux camp if it weren't for the few apps I really need that are only available for Win/Mac. And Win 7 is really "rock solid" from my experience (forgiving the recent kbd/mouse stuff which has apparently mostly cured itself {knock on wood}).

Still, compatibility problems... Been trying to get the HTPC back up to snuff this weekend. Was running XBMC under XP and I really fought that, mostly the surround sound. That was on a Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AMD based motherboard (the system has been out of use for a year and a half). Reformatted it with Win 7 Home, same damn issues and I really fought this. As a test, tried my "lab" computer here -- Asus P5G43T-M motherboard with a dual core Intel CPU (actually specs lower than the AMD). ALMOST a slam-dunk bringing that thing up. Took about a half hour, and it's feeding HD video to the Yamaha AV receiver via HDMI and lighting up all 8 audio decoder lights in DTS. Onna friggin WiFi Netflix feed. Using Windows 7 Media Center. Okay, NOW it's got my attention. This is "old" hardware, too; probably doesn't predate Win 7, but I've had it all for a coupla years.

The problem with Windows is that it attempts to be all things to all people. I've actually played with the Win 7 Embedded SDK for a work project. The theory behind Win 7 Embedded is that you can pare the OS down by leaving out parts that your app doesn't need. (Linux really shines at this.) This gives you a smaller, faster footprint. In reality, Windows is such an interconnected mess these days that you can't pare it down much. Great -- I can keep the games out of the install. To be fair, I didn't play with this a lot, but every "little" thing I wanted hauled along a boatload stuff I didn't need. Simple TCP/IP connectivity? Unpossible. But MS never really tried very hard in the embedded market (probably why their cell phones aren't a great success).

I always thought that Windows needs a checkbox screen that lets you pick and choose subsystems so you could jettison the crap you don't want and never use. Can't happen because it was never a design criteria. My one regret is that I didn't go with 64-bit Win 7. The 3.5 gig memory limit is cramping my style on this four year old box. Got Chrome running (6 tabs), paying tunes on Pandora and the weather station app. Memory in-use running about 1.6 gig. That's insane. But look at all the pretty icons!!

Not hating on Windows or MS, though. It is what it is and has paid a lot of my bills over the years. Hell yeahs, I was using M80 before most folks had even heard of MS. It's MY fault that I still use it (in a production environment, even).

Write device drivers using an interpreted language, though? GFL wid that, Paul. :rofl:

[N1LAF]

I hope it's not the experience with the circuit modeling software you posted about a while back. That installer was the biggest lump of crap that is referred to as an installer that I've ever seen.

It couldn't remember I split the install across file systems, treated all file systems as a single system when calculating disk space required, failed to register with the package manager, failed to include esoteric libraries, etc etc etc.

I thought you could get anything to work for Linux... but there are multiple flavors of Linux, and they are all not the same, shows why it has such a small user base.

The program installs properly for Windows, the later version works well with Win 7, so that is one more software off the hook.
MPLAB is another - resolved by being JAVA based.
OrCAD now works with Windows 7 - resolved.

National Instruments pre-version 2009, still having problems. 2009 and later, not an issue. But because I manage and handle legacy software and versions, and because of the target systems, I cannot upgrade those projects, so with Windows 7, it is a loser.

[N1LAF]

You kidding ?? What distro were you using ?

Ubuntu 10.04

[N1LAF]

I'd probably be firmly in the Linux camp if it weren't for the few apps I really need that are only available for Win/Mac. And Win 7 is really "rock solid" from my experience (forgiving the recent kbd/mouse stuff which has apparently mostly cured itself {knock on wood}).

Still, compatibility problems...


Not disputing solidness, only compatibility. Taking away features were restored by third party software.



Write device drivers using an interpreted language, though? GFL wid that, Paul. :rofl:
Sorry, never said writing drivers. John did, I said 'boring'. I write applications. You must have seen some of my 'offerings' coming through here.

One concern I had with JAVA is how to communicate with hardware. My cousin Andy pointed me to JNI. Looks like that problem solved. JNI - Java Native Interface, a programming framework that enables Java code running in a Java Virtual Machine (JVM) to call, and to be called by, native applications (programs specific to a hardware and operating system platform) and libraries written in other languages such as C, C++ and assembly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface)

LabVIEW allows me to write dll's, so I can bridge the two together. Downside is that the dll is OS dependent, so equivalent libraries would have to be created for other OS's. C would be preferred here.

[n2ize]

I thought you could get anything to work for Linux... but there are multiple flavors of Linux, and they are all not the same, shows why it has such a small user base.
.

Actually not as small a user base as you might think.

http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html

[N2CHX]

I thought you could get anything to work for Linux... but there are multiple flavors of Linux, and they are all not the same, shows why it has such a small user base.

The program installs properly for Windows, the later version works well with Win 7, so that is one more software off the hook.
MPLAB is another - resolved by being JAVA based.
OrCAD now works with Windows 7 - resolved.

National Instruments pre-version 2009, still having problems. 2009 and later, not an issue. But because I manage and handle legacy software and versions, and because of the target systems, I cannot upgrade those projects, so with Windows 7, it is a loser.

There are multiple flavors of Linux because Linux addresses the issue of "one size does not fit all". There are different Linux distros for different applications and different user styles. How you figure this accounts for the mythological "Linux has a small user base" I definitely don't understand.

Even my 65 year old mother-in-law uses it and she has been for three years. She did ask me to help her with one small problem she was having with it when we visited this week, but it was very minor and fixed in less than five minutes. She uses Ubuntu on a laptop and has now gone through three major revisions, two of which she has installed herself. If she had been running Windows all this time, I guarantee I'd have been asked at least a half dozen times a year for help, probably with spyware or something equally ridiculous. I know this, because I've been "24 hour tech support" for numerous family members. Family members who continually come to me with stupid problems with their Windows machines get told to adopt Linux or find someone else to fix their problems.

[N1LAF]

Actually not as small a user base as you might think.


There are multiple flavors of Linux because Linux addresses the issue of "one size does not fit all". There are different Linux distros for different applications and different user styles. How you figure this accounts for the mythological "Linux has a small user base" I definitely don't understand.

The raw numbers show the market share.

Primarily based on web server statistics, various companies estimated that the desktop market share of Linux range from less than 1% to 4.8%. In comparison, Microsoft operating systems hold more than 85%

By March 2011, OS X market share in North America had increased to slightly over 14%

In September 2008 Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer admitted that 60% of web-servers run Linux versus 40% that run Windows Server.

Usage Share of operating systems from Net Market Share
All Windows versions: 91.67%
Windows 7: 44.69%
Windows XP: 40.66%
Windows Vista: 5.8%
Windows 8: 0.41%
Windows 2000: 0.06%
Windows NT4: 0.04%
Windows 98: 0.01%

http://en.wikipedia.org

[N2CHX]

>yawn<

I don't care about market share. You totally missed my point.


"I have personally resigned from the club of people whose self-worth depends on their OS being dominant. Linux will be there for everyone who wants it, and that is fine for me, since I want it." - Kevin O'Brien

Keep using Windows, I don't really care. Personally, I'm glad to be rid of it and all the problems and expense that come with it. Just the fact that if my hard drive blows up, I don't have to panic if my "Rescue & Recovery" CD's don't work is enough for me, and there's so much more benefit than that if you choose to look for it. It's fine with me if you don't, but I personally no longer help people with their Windows problems for free, other than to hand them a Linux install CD or send them a link to the download page of my recommended distro.

[N1LAF]

I am not saying that Linux is bad and should be avoided. It does have its place, but in more niche markets. Linux rules in the server markets and with IT people. The problems I describe, problems in getting software to work, as Corey noted about the Actel Linux distro, is evidence of this. I see a free OS that can be used in virtual machines, to save the entire programming environment into configuration management, and the ease to restore that configuration.

My time this winter will be in learning to program in Java, did my first swing application last night. A book my cousin recommended for me to look at is the Java Developers Almanac, Vol 1 & 2.

[KC2UGV]

I thought you could get anything to work for Linux... but there are multiple flavors of Linux, and they are all not the same, shows why it has such a small user base.


Yes, I could have gotten it to work most likely, had I enlarged my root partition, ran a strace to discover required libs that weren't packaged, and spent a day or three. However, the need just wasn't there. It was a microcontroller IDE, now that I think about it, and my thought was,"Why not just 'yum install arduino'?"



The program installs properly for Windows, the later version works well with Win 7, so that is one more software off the hook.
MPLAB is another - resolved by being JAVA based.
OrCAD now works with Windows 7 - resolved.

National Instruments pre-version 2009, still having problems. 2009 and later, not an issue. But because I manage and handle legacy software and versions, and because of the target systems, I cannot upgrade those projects, so with Windows 7, it is a loser.

And, there will always be things like that, kind of like why hams sometimes hang onto 486 DOS machines, to program motorola radios.

[KC2UGV]

The problems I describe, problems in getting software to work, as Corey noted about the Actel Linux distro, is evidence of this.

That is not a problem with Linux, but a problem with the distributor of the software. It'd be like blaming Windows if Quicken's QuickBooks installer doesn't work.

[KB3LAZ]

only problem with this: backward compatability doesn't make them any money.

people who were interested in backward compatability bought the higher levels of windows 7 which came with "xp mode" (really: a windows xp virtual machine built in). however, not too many people did that.

I use win 7 ult 64. Need the language packs. :P Buy is another topic.

[n2ize]

The raw numbers show the market share.

Primarily based on web server statistics, various companies estimated that the desktop market share of Linux range from less than 1% to 4.8%. In comparison, Microsoft operating systems hold more than 85%

Which is pretty much what my link was saying. Howevfer the desktop share is growing as well as other devices such as laptops, netbooks, and numerous embedded devices,

It's no surprise that Microsoft has the larger share on the desktop. Just about every desktop system that the average person buys comes with Microsoft preloaded and ready to go. Even if I don;t want Windows its tough to get most vendors to sell me the same system without it pre-installed and price marked down accordingly. So most people buy a computer with Windows pre-installed and that is what they use. Most are not computer saavy and they are not interested in experimenting with different operating systems.Many don;t even know what the heck an operating system is. They just know you turn on the system Windows comes up and that's that. I cannot say I blame them since they bought the computer to do something. They could care less about what OS is under the hood and/or how would a different OS work for them. If Ubuntu or Red Hat came pre-installed on the bulk of the worlds Desktops then Ubuntu or Red Hat would probably have the largest share of the desktop. The majority of users don;t give a crap about what OS lies under the hood. They bought the computer to do work, or for entertainment, games, etc.

There is also another option for those who are tech saavy enough to want to try different OS's. Make the system dual boot. Or triple boot, etc. At boot time you select the OS you want the system to boot into. There is also the virtual machine solution as well as Linux versions that run from a CD or a thumb drive. So there is no need to have to commit ones self to 1 and just one OS.

[NQ6U]

There is also another option for those who are tech saavy enough to want to try different OS's. Make the system dual boot. Or triple boot, etc. At boot time you select the OS you want the system to boot into. There is also the virtual machine solution as well as Linux versions that run from a CD or a thumb drive. So there is no need to have to commit ones self to 1 and just one OS.

Typing this using Firefox running under Ubuntu running on a MacBook Pro that dual boots Linux and OS X.

[N2CHX]

There is also another option for those who are tech saavy enough to want to try different OS's. Make the system dual boot. Or triple boot, etc. At boot time you select the OS you want the system to boot into. There is also the virtual machine solution as well as Linux versions that run from a CD or a thumb drive. So there is no need to have to commit ones self to 1 and just one OS.

This laptop came with 64 bit Windows XP. It was one of the last computers to ship with XP before they nixed it (haha! I said nixed when talking about Windows). Anyway.... It ran like crap, right out of the box. I would have completely obliterated Windows in favor of Linux but until they upgraded the system, my real estate MLS would not run on anything but Windows, no matter what (it used Silverlight or some other plugin that absolutely would not run on anything but Windows. Screw Mac and Linux users I guess). Anyway, it was so bad that I decided it couldn't be any worse than running Windows as a virtual machine, so that's what I did. I found that Windows XP running under the VM ran much better than it did natively. Like, unbelievably better.

[N1LAF]

... Anyway, it was so bad that I decided it couldn't be any worse than running Windows as a virtual machine, so that's what I did. I found that Windows XP running under the VM ran much better than it did natively. Like, unbelievably better.

I found XP(32 bit) to run well in a VM. VM is my compatibility insurance.

Cool title - "Island Nerdette", sounds smart, much better than the last one.

[n2ize]

Linux isn't the only game in town either. I used to play around with FreeBSD. I might even have another go at FreeBSD when I put the very large drive in this system. With multiboot systems and virtual machines there are so many options these days. No need to be tied to just one OS/

Remember too, nobody uses an operating system. People use applications. The applications use the operating system.

[KB3LAZ]

Looks like the both win 8 and win 8 pro come with language and region packs. Win 7 pissed me off in this sense. The more basic packages only allowed for one keyboard layout and language setup restricted by region of purchase. (Mind you, I use win 7 ult 64 so this is not an issue but that is not the point.) When looking at getting a new netbook for work here in Spain I was a little upset to find out that I could not change my language and keyboard settings because only win 7 home premium and win 7 starter were offered. Sure, you can upgrade them but again that is not the point.

..Yep, little things make me happy.

What I dont know (since I have not used win 8) is if you can setup cross region settings. IE: I am using a North American keyboard setup with a Spanish language pack. Setup Via function key is the ability to use special characters that I would otherwise have to use alt codes for. What is nice is that I can toggle between Spanish and English with a simple click. I can not do this with keyboard settings though. (Only sensible if you have an actually Spanish keyboard as it has all NA keys + more. The reverse would be silly.) It would be nice if you can toggle between both on win 8.

Why, you ask. Well, because my wife and I share our main laptop most of the time.

Time will tell (for me). Once back in the US it will be time for new PC's as mine have been used and abused over the last two years. (My laptops.) I am not shipping desktops back to the states. They will go to my in-laws.

[W4GPL]

I'm sure most of you are already aware, but Android is a Linux based operating system, which in my opinion makes Linux one of the most used operating systems on the planet. The Galaxy S3 is already outselling the iPhone, which means this trend is likely to continue.

[N2CHX]

I'm sure most of you are already aware, but Android is a Linux based operating system, which in my opinion makes Linux one of the most used operating systems on the planet. The Galaxy S3 is already outselling the iPhone, which means this trend is likely to continue.

I was going to mention that as well. Have you ever even tried to use an iPhone? Biggest piece of clunky crap ever. I had to help someone get an audio stream working on one and I couldn't believe how clunky the thing was to use. Here I thought the huge pricetag and all the hype was actually for a good reason. I'd take a used Droid 1 over a brand new iPhone any day.

[N1LAF]

I have a Galaxy Tab tablet, and it is great stuff. Being fixed hardware, drivers are not an issue, and I think most apps are Java based (correct me if I am wrong), software install issues are less of a problem. Can an OS like this make the leap to mainstream computers? That is the question.

As a tablet, I enjoy the Samsung Galaxy over the Apple products, and will look at the Galaxy player to replace my ipod in the future.