Generators ?

[n2ize]

This recent hurricane led me to make some observations. One is that our overhead wiring system surrounded by big trees is extremely vulnerable to damage. The wiring system in and of itself isn't. Streets with few or no trees suffered no downed wires or damage. It is the falling trees and limbs that wreck the wiring system. Second observation, many home and business owners run generators that are powered by gasoline. Third, a severe hurricane takes its toll on coasts and ports thus preventing gasoline shipments and causing gasoline shortages. Fourth, gasoline shortages mean it can get difficult to supply your generator with gas, let alone the car or truck you use to transport the gas from the station to your generator. Fifth, most of this area has natural gas that is piped in to homes and businesses and this natural gas continues to flow as it is carried through underground pipes. Phones, electric, gasoline, oil deliveries etc was in short supply or unavailable for a stretch of time yet, the natural gas supply flowed unimpeded.

So... this leads me to think. Instead of a gasoline powered generator how about a generator that runs on natural gas ? As long as the gas supply is running, and it usually is even in a bad storm, the generator continues to run. No need to have to make trips to gas stations to re-up the gasoline supply which may be in shortage or unavailable. If the fuel is being piped right to the premises then why not be able to take full advantage of it in an emergency ? How about a generator that can run on natural gas, propane, and, gasoline if needed ? Such an animal must be available.

[NQ6U]

I worked for a time as a mechanic/service writer for the Onan distibutor in San Francisco and learned a bit about this sort of thing. Natural gas is not the best fuel choice for a standby generator mainly because it is significantly less energy-dense than a petroleum-derived fuel. You would have to de-rate your generator accordingly. Propane might be a better choice.

[KC9SQR]

http://propanecarbs.com/

I was actually discussing this with a few friends of mine recently and discovered there are actually conversion kits for exactly this sort of thing...

This was just one link that I pulled from a google search... This website claims both propane and natural gas can be used :)

[n2ize]

I worked for a time as a mechanic/service writer for the Onan distibutor in San Francisco and learned a bit about this sort of thing. Natural gas is not the best fuel choice for a standby generator mainly because it is significantly less energy-dense than a petroleum-derived fuel. You would have to de-rate your generator accordingly. Propane might be a better choice.

I understand what you are saying about efficiency but, in an emergency you just want to get the lights back on and if natural gas is abundant and is piped right to the building then it seems like a viable source of energy in an emergency. For day to day use it may not be the most efficient fuel. But in this case we are talking about temporary use just to get through an emergency. And since the gas is sitting right there why not take advantage of it ?

[n2ize]

http://propanecarbs.com/

I was actually discussing this with a few friends of mine recently and discovered there are actually conversion kits for exactly this sort of thing...

This was just one link that I pulled from a google search... This website claims both propane and natural gas can be used :)
Ah, this is right exactly along the lines of what I am interested in. And, I'd imagine that the genrator can always be changed back run on gasoline again should the need arise.

[KC9SQR]

Ah, this is right exactly along the lines of what I am interested in. And, I'd imagine that the genrator can always be changed back run on gasoline again should the need arise.

As far as I could tell those require no permanent changes being made to the generator itself...
I was also just watching a video of a tri fuel setup on youtube... It can run propane, natural gas, or gasoline..

[n2ize]

As far as I could tell those require no permanent changes being made to the generator itself...
I was also just watching a video of a tri fuel setup on youtube... It can run propane, natural gas, or gasoline..
This interests me because I am planning to get a generator and it would be great if it could run on more than one fuel option..

[KC2UGV]

This recent hurricane led me to make some observations. One is that our overhead wiring system surrounded by big trees is extremely vulnerable to damage. The wiring system in and of itself isn't. Streets with few or no trees suffered no downed wires or damage. It is the falling trees and limbs that wreck the wiring system. Second observation, many home and business owners run generators that are powered by gasoline. Third, a severe hurricane takes its toll on coasts and ports thus preventing gasoline shipments and causing gasoline shortages. Fourth, gasoline shortages mean it can get difficult to supply your generator with gas, let alone the car or truck you use to transport the gas from the station to your generator. Fifth, most of this area has natural gas that is piped in to homes and businesses and this natural gas continues to flow as it is carried through underground pipes. Phones, electric, gasoline, oil deliveries etc was in short supply or unavailable for a stretch of time yet, the natural gas supply flowed unimpeded.

So... this leads me to think. Instead of a gasoline powered generator how about a generator that runs on natural gas ? As long as the gas supply is running, and it usually is even in a bad storm, the generator continues to run. No need to have to make trips to gas stations to re-up the gasoline supply which may be in shortage or unavailable. If the fuel is being piped right to the premises then why not be able to take full advantage of it in an emergency ? How about a generator that can run on natural gas, propane, and, gasoline if needed ? Such an animal must be available.

I thought about this long and hard. And, I have yet to come to a decision.

Gasoline generators, if gasoline is not in short supply, you have a decent fuel source. If it is in short supply, it can then be modified to run on wood gas, somewhat easily. And, most of the work can be done beforehand (ie, building the gasifier).

But, wood can even be in short demand. So I thought: NG. However, NJ showed me that NG can be cut off if there is a possibility of leaks.

Then, there's diesel. Not as power dense as gasoline, but can be retrofitted for duel fuel (Diesel or veggie oil).

Or, just go completely the other way, and spend the money on a wind or solar array.

[W5GA]

Or, just go completely the other way, and spend the money on a wind or solar array.
If you have enough wind to knock trees down, you have enough wind to knock a wind gen down. And your solar array won't work well with a wind gen stuck through the middle of it that just got blown over. :stirpot:

[KK4AMI]

If you have enough wind to knock trees down, you have enough wind to knock a wind gen down. And your solar array won't work well with a wind gen stuck through the middle of it that just got blown over. :stirpot:

The cloud cover from a hurricane kinda degrades a solar cell system as well. Just when you need it!

I have a 350 Gal Propane tank buried on the side of my house. I thought about running my generator off of that. But I am happy keeping a 3 day supply of gas for any major storm. Usually, after 3 days the gas stations get power back. Our neighborhood station bought a generator to run their pumps just in case the power failure goes longer.

[kc2zfa]

I know gasoline doesn't hold up well in long-term storage...does anyone know how long it's good for, and whether there are any treatments you can do to prolong its shelf life ? I know diesel hods up well in long-term storage (but I may be wrong).

[KK4AMI]

I know gasoline doesn't hold up well in long-term storage...does anyone know how long it's good for, and whether there are any treatments you can do to prolong its shelf life ? I know diesel hods up well in long-term storage (but I may be wrong).

You can add stabilizer to gasoline. I cycle my fuel through a full compliment of lawn tools, so it never sits long. Right now a leaf blower and lawn vac! :irked:

[KC2UGV]

If you have enough wind to knock trees down, you have enough wind to knock a wind gen down. And your solar array won't work well with a wind gen stuck through the middle of it that just got blown over. :stirpot:

True... Yet another thing to consider...


The cloud cover from a hurricane kinda degrades a solar cell system as well. Just when you need it!

I have a 350 Gal Propane tank buried on the side of my house. I thought about running my generator off of that. But I am happy keeping a 3 day supply of gas for any major storm. Usually, after 3 days the gas stations get power back. Our neighborhood station bought a generator to run their pumps just in case the power failure goes longer.

Actually, you need it mostly afterwards, not so much during :)

[n2ize]

Lot's pf good ideas and considerations here. Wind, solar power are good 24/7/365 solutions. I am thinking in terms of emergencies. It seems there are many options. Gasoline is a good generator fuel for me because I use it for many things, leaf blowers, trimmers, snow blowers, etc. So I can pretty much cycle the gas through all those devices and not have to worry about gas going stale. But I am thinking. Since natural gas here is very reliable and is piped right to the house it might make sense to consider a natural gas conversion in the event a category 5 hurricane hits and we can't get out of the house (or whats left of a house) for a month or so,...

[W5GA]

I know gasoline doesn't hold up well in long-term storage...does anyone know how long it's good for, and whether there are any treatments you can do to prolong its shelf life ? I know diesel hods up well in long-term storage (but I may be wrong).
Get a can of Sta-Bil (auto parts store). But even with that, it's only good for about a year. Without, about 6 months.

[W3WN]

This recent hurricane led me to make some observations.
< snip >
So... this leads me to think. Instead of a gasoline powered generator how about a generator that runs on natural gas ? As long as the gas supply is running, and it usually is even in a bad storm, the generator continues to run. No need to have to make trips to gas stations to re-up the gasoline supply which may be in shortage or unavailable. If the fuel is being piped right to the premises then why not be able to take full advantage of it in an emergency ? How about a generator that can run on natural gas, propane, and, gasoline if needed ? Such an animal must be available.Yes, they are. Whether they exist on the home-level I don't know.

When I worked at Chester Engineers, the building's emergency generator was natural gas powered. When high winds caused a power outage for several days, it cut in within seconds, and we had enough power to keep the server room and some other essential things running... so our outlying offices didn't lose the network connectivity to each other (to say nothing of email & the Internet connection that ran through the HQ office), and our users could dial in via the Netware remote access server to get work done.

It proved it's worth and then some.

Of course, 2 years later, the company had a new corporate parent (US Filter), who decided to move us into a new office building being built on the site of the old Greater Pittsburgh International Airport terminal. Naturally, there were cost over-runs. One of the first things cut from the design specs was... guess what? Short-sighted bean counting twerps.