Time for a new Rig

[ka4dpo]

OK so here is my dilemma. Should I get an IC-7700 or FT-5000 now? Or should I wai to see how the new Kenwood shakes out? Opinions please..

[KB3LAZ]

OK so here is my dilemma. Should I get an IC-7700 or FT-5000 now? Or should I wai to see how the new Kenwood shakes out? Opinions please..

If I were limited to those two options I would go with the yaesu.

[KK4AMI]

If I were limited to those two options I would go with the yaesu.

Hmm, you consider that a "limited" option ?

[KB3LAZ]

Hmm, you consider that a "limited" option ?

Yes.

[WØTKX]

Well, if you have to buy new, I'd say the Yaesu as well. It's pretty damn nice, great ergonomics.

Also, if you could handle the idea of a used rig, there are some amazing radios for the $$.

Personally, I'm not a huge Icom fan. They are OK, but when I've spent time with them, they didn't impress me as much as other rigs. No chance you'd consider a Flex, Ten Tec, or Elecraft?

Just wondering.

[KB3LAZ]

Well, if you have to buy new, I'd say the Yaesu as well. It's pretty damn nice, great ergonomics.

Also, if you could handle the idea of a used rig, there are some amazing radios for the $$.

Personally, I'm not a huge Icom fan. They are OK, but when I've spent time with them, they didn't impress me as much as other rigs. No chance you'd consider a Flex, Ten Tec, or Elecraft?

Just wondering.

Oddly, Im more of an Icom fan, or at least I was in the past. To me, form does play a factor and Icom lost that awhile back. Also, if it is a base rig and does not have an analog meter, I simply will not buy it. May sound silly but its my money. :D

All of that aside, I personally do not need top of the line in reality. Truth be told, many of us do not. I am a casual ragchewer. No need for a contest rig for me. However, this is a very big reason I am excited to rebuild my shack when I get back to the states. I have a decent chunk of change to play with and I am going to be looking on the used market this time around. This means a few handfuls of toys rather than just one.

[KK4AMI]

Yes.
Guess I'm out of my league.

http://www.radiocronache.com/2010/03/ftdx-5000mp-us-ftdx-5000-vs-ic-7700-dmu-2000-v5-11-yaesu-ical-soon-it/

[WØTKX]

I like my Flex without Knobs.

But I like my TS-850SAT a whole lot. Sweet radio, very listenable. Knobular.

Even with the Inrad filters, the TS-850 isn't quite as good on RX as my Flex. Close tho.

Especially with crowded strong signals. The Pegasus is damn good at that as well.

[WØTKX]

Guess I'm out of my league.

Victim of Austerity? :shifty:

[KK4AMI]

Victim of Austerity? :shifty:

That and limited in the amount of hours on the toilet that it would require to read the instruction manual :)

[KB3LAZ]

I like my Flex without Knobs.

But I like my TS-850SAT a whole lot. Sweet radio, very listenable. Knobular.

Even with the Inrad filters, the TS-850 isn't quite as good on RX as my Flex. Close tho.

Especially with crowded strong signals. The Pegasus is damn good at that as well.

Part of the reason I like the hobby is because of the history as well as the history of the gear. Growing up in a time of technology I like to escape into retro-vision. The knobs, buttons, switches, tuning, meters, mystery, etc is all part of the setting that gets my endorphin's running. To me, a computer interface is a normal everyday habit and has been for a long time. Nothing exciting there.

However, I like learning about and discussing the interests of others as well. IE the communications side of the hobby. Its a win win.

[KB3LAZ]

That and the limited amount of hours on the toilet that it would require to read the instruction manual :)

Are you not male? We do not read instructions manuals! :P Or something like that.

Truth be told. If I were going to dump 5+k down on something at this moment (radio related) it would be a retrofitted setup. Likely Collins.

[KK4AMI]

When would a Ham decide to go to such advanced radio? Would you have one if you are just going to sling a 100 ft wire over it. Or would you have to have the tower and high gain directional something?

[WØTKX]

I have lust for the E. F. Johnson Desk Kilowatt amplifier. Just because.

http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/349763.jpg

[KB3LAZ]

When would a Ham decide to go to such advanced radio? Would you have one if you are just going to sling a 100 ft wire over it. Or would you have to have the tower and high gain directional something?

I would really think it depends on the ham. Watching the forums over the years there are many cases of both. Just listen to many of the RC groups on 75 and 40. A lot of those guys get the latest and greatest while running an inverted v at 35f. Often times they only run one or two bands and in some cases only one frequency.

I really dont think this question can have any one answer.

[KB3LAZ]

I have lust for the E. F. Johnson Desk Kilowatt amplifier. Just because.

http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/349763.jpg

I like Johnson as well but I have always had a thing for Collins. One of my fondest memories (radio related) was sitting in my grandfathers radio room, well past my bed time, and tuning around on his 75A-4.

[NQ6U]

My advice? Buy a used Swan 350. You'll have people chasing you up and down the bands trying to talk to you.

Seriously, although I think that Icom executes better than Yaesu when it comes to receivers, you need to spend some time with each rig to find out which one best fits your operating style.

If I was buying a new radio today (fat chance), I wouldn't buy either of those rigs; I'd go with an Elecraft K3 instead. It's got the best real-world receiver out there right now and that's the most important feature of any radio.

[KB3LAZ]

My advice? Buy a used Swan 350. You'll have people chasing you up and down the bands trying to talk to you.

Seriously, although I think that Icom executes better than Yaesu when it comes to receivers, you need to spend some time with each rig to find out which one best fits your operating style.

If I was buying a new radio today (fat chance), I wouldn't buy either of those rigs; I'd go with an Elecraft K3 instead. It's got the best real-world receiver out there right now and that's the most important feature of any radio.

As ugly (IMO) as the K3 is, it still offers a lot of things that interest me. Particularly that I can put in it only what I need and if I decide later that I want more, that is an option too. However the biggest thing that interests me is its continual evolution. The add on module for 2m is one of the more recent additions that interests me. In fact, it reminds me of the older yaesu rigs in that respect. Id love to see further evolution. Probably not a lot of room in there to add too many more modules but offering a variety of which you could choose from would interest me.

One thing is for sure, Elecraft has had my curiosity for a while now. Who knows if or when, how long it will take, but a K4 would be interesting in the future. No matter if it is a replacement or sold side by side with the K3 as a more desk friendly model. IE larger, more ergonomic, and less menu driven. That part however, I do not expect to see soon, if ever. As the company seems to be primarily focused on DX, portable, and QRP. Interesting thought though.

[W5GA]

Another vote for the K-3 here.

[KG4CGC]

Uh, yeah. I'd consider the offerings from TT. Maybe even visit the nursery in Tennessee. The technology on the 7700 is at least 5 years old now and the 5000, 3 or 4 years old?

[KB3LAZ]

Uh, yeah. I'd consider the offerings from TT. Maybe even visit the nursery in Tennessee. The technology on the 7700 is at least 5 years old now and the 5000, 3 or 4 years old?

I eagerly await the release of a new TT. No clue when that will happen but, I dont plan on going away any time soon.

[NY4Q]

I overheard on 75m (yeah, I know) the TS-990 will be released soon...

[KB3LAZ]

I overheard on 75m (yeah, I know) the TS-990 will be released soon...

Ive seen postings on the net that all point to around xmas time. However, I have seen zero solid evidence to support this. There is a youtube vid where someone from kenwood is being interviewed at a hamfest and he said winter of 2012-2013. Sooo...December/January/February? I guess we shall see as it is already November.

[W3WN]

I eagerly await the release of a new TT. No clue when that will happen but, I dont plan on going away any time soon.The Eagle is relatively new. The Argonaut VI will be coming out shortly, it's in many ways equivalent of the "QRP Eagle"
.
No idea on how well the Omni VII has been doing, sales wise, so I don't know if a replacement for it is in the pipeline for the near future. My understanding is that the Eagle & it's related technology is the future direction of the company though.

[KB3LAZ]

The Eagle is relatively new. The Argonaut VI will be coming out shortly, it's in many ways equivalent of the "QRP Eagle"
.
No idea on how well the Omni VII has been doing, sales wise, so I don't know if a replacement for it is in the pipeline for the near future. My understanding is that the Eagle & it's related technology is the future direction of the company though.

Yeah, I was thinking something more along the lines of the Orion. Though, I have been following the Argonaut VI since you first mentioned it quite some time back. Though, look wise, I like the previous model better.

As for sales of the Omni VII, I would assume the are at least decent. I see a lot of them in shack pictures. Not near as many as I see of the Jupiter though. I have had the pleasure of using the Omni VII and the Jupiter, both very nice rigs. In the ragchew circles I follow, we have more than a few Omni VII's and they sound spectacular.

But for now, my sights are set on some older TT gear.

[KJ3N]

OK so here is my dilemma. Should I get an IC-7700 or FT-5000 now? Or should I wai to see how the new Kenwood shakes out? Opinions please..

None of the above. K3.

IC-7700 (single RX, BTW) = $6,665

FT-DX5000 (2 RX) = $4,980

K3 with 2nd RX, I/O board ( RX Ant, IF Out, & Xvrtr), 100 watt PA, ATU, 1.8Khz & 500hz roofing filters, and DVR = $3,802 (shipping added in, $3,730 w/o shipping).

Of course, the first question is, "Why a new radio?" Old one blew up? Bored? Money burning a hole in your pocket? Just put up a SteppIR at 75 feet? Just because?

My radio room also serves as the networking center for the house, my work bench, and a multitude of shelves. Space is somewhat at a premium. The Icom or Yaseu takes up WAY too much room for it to be practical for my needs, let alone too much money for my meager wallet.

I get better performance than the 7700, possibly better (if not just as good) performance as the 5000, but save myself about 50-60% on desk space.

K3 FTW.

Oh, yeah, don't see much sense in blowing that much money if I haven't invested at least $10K in the antenna system alone. I'd much rather spend $3K on a radio and $10K on the antenna, than spend $10K on the radio and less than $1K on the antenna.

JMO, YMMV.

[KB3LAZ]

None of the above. K3.

IC-7700 (single RX, BTW) = $6,665

FT-DX5000 (2 RX) = $4,980

K3 with 2nd RX, I/O board ( RX Ant, IF Out, & Xvrtr), 100 watt PA, ATU, 1.8Khz & 500hz roofing filters, and DVR = $3,802 (shipping added in, $3,730 w/o shipping).

Of course, the first question is, "Why a new radio?" Old one blew up? Bored? Money burning a hole in your pocket? Just put up a SteppIR at 75 feet? Just because?

My radio room also serves as the networking center for the house, my work bench, and a multitude of shelves. Space is somewhat at a premium. The Icom or Yaseu takes up WAY too much room for it to be practical for my needs, let alone too much money for my meager wallet.

I get better performance than the 7700, possibly better (if not just as good) performance as the 5000, but save myself about 50-60% on desk space.

K3 FTW.

Oh, yeah, don't see much sense in blowing that much money if I haven't invested at least $10K in the antenna system alone. I'd much rather spend $3K on a radio and $10K on the antenna, than spend $10K on the radio and less than $1K on the antenna.

JMO, YMMV.

I dont think I could bring myself to spend 10k on an antenna or a radio. A combination of both, maybe. Then again, as I said, I dont contest or DX. I chat locally (with in the 48) often times only on the east coast. :P

If I had 10k burning a whole in my pocket, Id put it to buying a new bike.

I have on occasion thought about spending that kind of money on radio before but then my brain asks me what the hell is wrong with me. :P

[NQ6U]

I'd much rather spend $3K on a radio and $10K on the antenna, than spend $10K on the radio and less than $1K on the antenna.

This, absolutely.

Speaking just for myself here but I will spend no more money on electronics until I can upgrade my antenna system. The radios I already have are capable of far more than my limited antenna farm allows. I'd want at least a tower and a tri-bander in the air before I got a rig as nice as a K3, IC-7700 or FT-5000.

[N8YX]

If I was buying a new radio today (fat chance), I wouldn't buy either of those rigs; I'd go with an Elecraft K3 instead. It's got the best real-world receiver out there right now and that's the most important feature of any radio.

This, or a DZKit Sienna w/ second RX-only Sienna slaved to it.

[N8YX]

Of course, the first question is, "Why a new radio?"

Because all of the good hookers are taken. :-|

[KJ3N]

Because all of the good hookers are taken. :-|

:lol:

[TESLA]

I overheard on 75m (yeah, I know) the TS-990 will be released soon...

Kenwood woody, swing!

[W1GUH]

I have lust for the E. F. Johnson Desk Kilowatt amplifier. Just because.

http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/349763.jpg

Whew! That was f'ing great! Now...where's the tissues?

Great pic of a great rig.


[edit] AND...with an S-line over there. Whew! Multiples!

[W1GUH]

Part of the reason I like the hobby is because of the history as well as the history of the gear. Growing up in a time of technology I like to escape into retro-vision. The knobs, buttons, switches, tuning, meters, mystery, etc is all part of the setting that gets my endorphin's running. To me, a computer interface is a normal everyday habit and has been for a long time. Nothing exciting there.

However, I like learning about and discussing the interests of others as well. IE the communications side of the hobby. Its a win win.

One thing that could be done with a flex-thingie is you could make a GUI for it that mimicked in every detail what a venerable old radio did. Or, maybe a step further, one could actually make a "BA control box" for a flexie. Take an original or repro of a BA with all the controls in place, interface those controls to the flexer and, viola!, flex-BA operation.

[WØTKX]

My Flex thingie actually does have a very cool interface. :yes:


http://www.flexradio.com/Data/Image/PowerSDRv2.png

[KB3LAZ]

My Flex thingie actually does have a very cool interface. :yes:


http://www.flexradio.com/Data/Image/PowerSDRv2.png

IDKY but it reminds me of a mixing board.

[WØTKX]

Well, yea. I have a Tascam PortaStudio MD in the shack too. :lol:

[ka4dpo]

I have lust for the E. F. Johnson Desk Kilowatt amplifier. Just because.

http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/349763.jpg

That is one nice rig. I actually have a very near mint Ranger but I don't think I will ever sell it, I put far too much work into it and like it too much to let it go. I did look at Ten Tec and the Orion has good specs but feels cheap and the OmniVII is not a radio I would want. The K3 is crush proof but dinkey and cheap, also difficult to use for casual operating. Yhe Flex 5000 was really nice but I don't like fooling around with computer menus. So I narrowed it down the the IC-7700 or the FTdx 5000, both are very good radios. I'm leaning toward the Yaesu just because it has a quieter receiver and although the dynamic range is higher they are both at the so what point on that perameter.

I guess I just don't want to buy one and then when the new TS-990 comes out slap my forehead and think " Could have gotten one of those". I just wish I knew when they plan to release it.

[KJ3N]

I might have missed it, but I'm still looking for the answer as to why a new radio in the first place?

[KB3LAZ]

That is one nice rig. I actually have a very near mint Ranger but I don't think I will ever sell it, I put far too much work into it and like it too much to let it go. I did look at Ten Tec and the Orion has good specs but feels cheap and the OmniVII is not a radio I would want. The K3 is crush proof but dinkey and cheap, also difficult to use for casual operating. Yhe Flex 5000 was really nice but I don't like fooling around with computer menus. So I narrowed it down the the IC-7700 or the FTdx 5000, both are very good radios. I'm leaning toward the Yaesu just because it has a quieter receiver and although the dynamic range is higher they are both at the so what point on that perameter.

I guess I just don't want to buy one and then when the new TS-990 comes out slap my forehead and think " Could have gotten one of those". I just wish I knew when they plan to release it.

I honesty would look for the 990 to come out around the end of next month or the beginning of the following month. Though, tbh, I would let others buy it and test it too see if it has any major flaws before I bought.

[W1GUH]

My Flex thingie actually does have a very cool interface. :yes:

http://www.flexradio.com/Data/Image/PowerSDRv2.png

But...but...there's no knobs to diddle.

[KB3LAZ]

But...but...there's no knobs to diddle.

I thought it was fiddle? If you diddle with a knob that means...!

[W1GUH]

Twiddle....diddle...fiddle. What's the diff?

[KB3LAZ]

Twiddle....diddle...fiddle. What's the diff?

Well you can both twiddle and diddle a vag but you have to fiddle with it not simply fiddle it? :P

[WØTKX]

Use a Kensington Orbit Trackball with the Flex. With buttons, a ball, and a spinning ring that changes frequencies like a knob.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/sC_b002oowb3o-feat01lg.jpg

Sooooo... it's a ball, with an orbiting twiddly ringy thingy. Fabulous?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.asylum.com/media/2010/07/vanessa-branch-orbit-584pg071610.jpg

[W3WN]

Yeah, I was thinking something more along the lines of the Orion. Though, I have been following the Argonaut VI since you first mentioned it quite some time back. Though, look wise, I like the previous model better.

As for sales of the Omni VII, I would assume the are at least decent. I see a lot of them in shack pictures. Not near as many as I see of the Jupiter though. I have had the pleasure of using the Omni VII and the Jupiter, both very nice rigs. In the ragchew circles I follow, we have more than a few Omni VII's and they sound spectacular.

But for now, my sights are set on some older TT gear.So do I. Especially now that there's now (as of last Saturday) an Argonaut V in the shack.

The Jupiter, BTW, has been quietly discontinued. Sales for it must have finally dropped below the point where another production run was practical; that, or critical parts are no longer available & a redesign is not in the works. I'm not surprised, considering the remote capabilities on the newer rigs.

As I've mentioned before, I do like the K3, and it is relatively easy to use. That panadaptor & the new KPA 500 amp are impressive as well. I wouldn't turn one down if one was given to me... but having run them side-by-side, given the choice, I'll still take an Omni VI+ over a K3 every day of the week & twice on Sunday. It's a close call... but that would be my choice.

[KB3LAZ]

So do I. Especially now that there's now (as of last Saturday) an Argonaut V in the shack.

The Jupiter, BTW, has been quietly discontinued. Sales for it must have finally dropped below the point where another production run was practical; that, or critical parts are no longer available & a redesign is not in the works. I'm not surprised, considering the remote capabilities on the newer rigs.

As I've mentioned before, I do like the K3, and it is relatively easy to use. That panadaptor & the new KPA 500 amp are impressive as well. I wouldn't turn one down if one was given to me... but having run them side-by-side, given the choice, I'll still take an Omni VI+ over a K3 every day of the week & twice on Sunday. It's a close call... but that would be my choice.

Yeah, I know they dropped the Jupiter. They had a thread about it on the zed awhile back.

The thing about rigs like the K3 and the Eagle that keep me away for daily use is the size. Too small for my comfort. When it first came out, I picked up a 7000 for the shack and though I loved the rig it became cumbersome to operate on a daily bases. Even rigs like the Jupiter and Omni VII are a little cumbersome in the shack.

[KB3LAZ]

Use a Kensington Orbit Trackball with the Flex. With buttons, a ball, and a spinning ring that changes frequencies like a knob.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/sC_b002oowb3o-feat01lg.jpg

Sooooo... it's a ball, with an orbiting twiddly ringy thingy. Fabulous?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.asylum.com/media/2010/07/vanessa-branch-orbit-584pg071610.jpg

I have tried to use a track ball, I just cant do it.

[W3WN]

I might have missed it, but I'm still looking for the answer as to why a new radio in the first place?You can never have enough radios?
He wants 21st century technology?
He has money to burn, but no hookers available at present?
He wants some jackass to make a youhoo video about it, for his 15 seconds of fame (or infamy)?
He wants to make Pat jealous?

Give me a few minutes, I'll come up with some others.

[W3WN]

Yeah, I know they dropped the Jupiter. They had a thread about it on the zed awhile back.

The thing about rigs like the K3 and the Eagle that keep me away for daily use is the size. Too small for my comfort. When it first came out, I picked up a 7000 for the shack and though I loved the rig it became cumbersome to operate on a daily bases. Even rigs like the Jupiter and Omni VII are a little cumbersome in the shack.Ergonomics of the rig are always important. While it wasn't a major factor (the receiver issues were), the ergonomics of the TS-480 were a consideration when I decided to trade that rig.

I can see where the size & weight of the K3 would be critical. There are two reasons that many DXpeditions in recent years have used the K3 extensively -- that (size & weight) is one, and the fact that they're loaned out for free is the other.

One of the demographics that the Eagle is meant for is the portable/mobile market. That's another situation where size & weight become critical.

No one radio will be THE radio for everyone. We all have our tastes and preferences. (In other words, YMMV, VWPBL(STn)) For me, the Omni VI+ fits well in the shack, much better than a smaller radio would suit me. Now if I had less real estate for the shack, as is the situation for many, that might not be the case.

[WØTKX]

No regrets, but I came damn close to getting the Eagle instead of the Flex. I like the size.

[KJ3N]

You can never have enough radios?
He wants 21st century technology?
He has money to burn, but no hookers available at present?
He wants some jackass to make a youhoo video about it, for his 15 seconds of fame (or infamy)?
He wants to make Pat jealous?

Give me a few minutes, I'll come up with some others.

Oh, I'm sure you will. I'm just trying to get to whether this is an emotional decision, or a logical one.

If an emotional one, then I'll bow out of the discussion. I tend to make my radio purchases based on logic, not emotion.

I have found there's no point in trying to try to use logic on someone when they're making an emotional decision.

[KK4AMI]

Oh, I'm sure you will. I'm just trying to get to whether this is an emotional decision, or a logical one.

If an emotional one, then I'll bow out of the discussion. I tend to make my radio purchases based on logic, not emotion.

I have found there's no point in trying to try to use logic on someone when they're making an emotional decision.

OK, now you have piqued my interest. I'm 56 years old and still can't buy man toys without emotional involvement. I will forever refer to you as "Master" if you could teach me to just make my purchases based on logic alone.

[w0aew]

Based on logic alone, most of us here would do better upgrading our worn-out keyboards rather than upgrading radios.

[WØTKX]

I keep restoring/cleaning a rotation of three IBM Selectric style clicky clacky keyboards for the main PC. I type faster and more accurately with them. The touch keyboard on the smartphones suck.

[KJ3N]

OK, now you have piqued my interest. I'm 56 years old and still can't buy man toys without emotional involvement. I will forever refer to you as "Master" if you could teach me to just make my purchases based on logic alone.

Step #1: Do I need it, or do I want it? That's the first hurdle you need to get past. Most people (IMO) don't need a new radio unless the old one blows up. Wanting a new radio is usually an emotion.

Example #1: I want a new 60" LCD or LED TV. I have a 57" rear projection TV that's working just fine, so I don't need it. Even when one of the convergence chips went south about 4 years ago, logic (and price of a new LCD at the time) dictated that I spend $90 and 2 hours of my time to fix it, instead of blowing $2,500.

Example #2: I want a 26-32" LCD TV for the main floor computer room. The 19", 20+ year old Sony CRT refuses to die, so I don't need one.


Step #2: Given my antenna, am I putting a Yugo engine (antenna) into a Ferrari ($6-10K radio)?

Examples: Given that there are a lot of folks out there with G5RVs at 20-25 feet (maybe 35 feet on a good day), I see little practical reasoning in buying something on the order of an IC-7700 or FT-DX5000, when (at best) a TS-590 is more than adequate. The same goes for those that live in HOAs and condos with indoor antennas. No $6-10K radio is going to magically make up for a shitty antenna situation and allow you to work Mongolia on 40m when your indoor antenna has an S9 noise level. You'd better pray propagation takes pity on you and every single electronic device in your house decides to shut down, all at the same time.


Step #3: Can I actually afford it, without having to give several other things up, or have to pay for it over the course of a year?

Example: I've born witness to people who buy $2-4K radios, then 5 months later have to give it up because some other bill came due, their kid started college, or their daughter decided to get married. If your finances are such that you can't buy the radio without it jeopardizing your family's financial future, you might want to reconsider. BTW, I've seen this happen with people who buy $1-2K radios as well. Some people just have poor impulse control.


My K3 was a logical choice, given the following:

1) I contest. Not a lot, but enough that I need the close in spacing of an excellent RX.
2) Price vs. performance: I spent around $2,300 on my K3 kit back in 2008. Bought the second RX about 18 months later. To get basically the same thing (performance-wise) in an Icom or Yaesu, I was looking at close to $10K. That wasn't going to happen. Ever.
3) Size: As I mentioned before, space in the shack / network room / work bench is a little cramped. I need something that doesn't take up a lot of room. A 7700 or 5000 is simply too large.
4) Portability: I can take the K3 out in the field without having to take much more than a 12VDC battery. If I can lift a 5000 or 7700, I still need a generator.
5) Emergency (disaster) operation: This goes hand in hand with the portability issue. I can find a source of 12VDC a hell of a lot easier than I can find 120VAC during something like a hurricane. Sure, I have a generator (now), but what if it takes a shit? With a radio that only operates on AC (7700 or 5000), I'm dead in the water.
6) Antennas: My antennas are such that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to piss money away on a "show piece" radio. It's not going to get me anymore contacts that what I am getting now. Hell, I make contacts reasonably easy with my IC-703 (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?291382-Receiver-or-antenna&p=2214512#post2214512). If anything, I should put $10K into a tower and a MonstIR before pissing it away on a radio. That will get me a hell of a lot better performance than the wire antennas I'm using now, without having to change the radio at all.

Of course, none of what I've written above means a damn if all you want to do is have a new toy to play with. That's an emotional argument, not a logical one. So is the, "I want the best radio possible!", argument. Especially when you don't have the antenna to back it up with. ;)

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong" - Dennis Miller

[WØTKX]

Nice rant! :rofl:

[KB3LAZ]

Step #1: Do I need it, or do I want it? That's the first hurdle you need to get past. Most people (IMO) don't need a new radio unless the old one blows up. Wanting a new radio is usually an emotion.

Example #1: I want a new 60" LCD or LED TV. I have a 57" rear projection TV that's working just fine, so I don't need it. Even when one of the convergence chips went south about 4 years ago, logic (and price of a new LCD at the time) dictated that I spend $90 and 2 hours of my time to fix it, instead of blowing $2,500.

Example #2: I want a 26-32" LCD TV for the main floor computer room. The 19", 20+ year old Sony CRT refuses to die, so I don't need one.


Step #2: Given my antenna, am I putting a Yugo engine (antenna) into a Ferrari ($6-10K radio)?

Examples: Given that there are a lot of folks out there with G5RVs at 20-25 feet (maybe 35 feet on a good day), I see little practical reasoning in buying something on the order of an IC-7700 or FT-DX5000, when (at best) a TS-590 is more than adequate. The same goes for those that live in HOAs and condos with indoor antennas. No $6-10K radio is going to magically make up for a shitty antenna situation and allow you to work Mongolia on 40m when your indoor antenna has an S9 noise level. You'd better pray propagation takes pity on you and every single electronic device in your house decides to shut down, all at the same time.


Step #3: Can I actually afford it, without having to give several other things up, or have to pay for it over the course of a year?

Example: I've born witness to people who buy $2-4K radios, then 5 months later have to give it up because some other bill came due, their kid started college, or their daughter decided to get married. If your finances are such that you can't buy the radio without it jeopardizing your family's financial future, you might want to reconsider. BTW, I've seen this happen with people who buy $1-2K radios as well. Some people just have poor impulse control.


My K3 was a logical choice, given the following:

1) I contest. Not a lot, but enough that I need the close in spacing of an excellent RX.
2) Price vs. performance: I spent around $2,300 on my K3 kit back in 2008. Bought the second RX about 18 months later. To get basically the same thing (performance-wise) in an Icom or Yaesu, I was looking at close to $10K. That wasn't going to happen. Ever.
3) Size: As I mentioned before, space in the shack / network room / work bench is a little cramped. I need something that doesn't take up a lot of room. A 7700 or 5000 is simply too large.
4) Portability: I can take the K3 out in the field without having to take much more than a 12VDC battery. If I can lift a 5000 or 7700, I still need a generator.
5) Emergency (disaster) operation: This goes hand in hand with the portability issue. I can find a source of 12VDC a hell of a lot easier than I can find 120VAC during something like a hurricane. Sure, I have a generator (now), but what if it takes a shit? With a radio that only operates on AC (7700 or 5000), I'm dead in the water.
6) Antennas: My antennas are such that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to piss money away on a "show piece" radio. It's not going to get me anymore contacts that what I am getting now. Hell, I make contacts reasonably easy with my IC-703 (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?291382-Receiver-or-antenna&p=2214512#post2214512). If anything, I should put $10K into a tower and a MonstIR before pissing it away on a radio. That will get me a hell of a lot better performance than the wire antennas I'm using now, without having to change the radio at all.

Of course, none of what I've written above means a damn if all you want to do is have a new toy to play with. That's an emotional argument, not a logical one. So is the, "I want the best radio possible!", argument. Especially when you don't have the antenna to back it up with. ;)

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong" - Dennis Miller

Only problem is, that with a hobby, every single thing you buy is a want and not a need. Do we need a radio at all, nope. Same goes for a TV or a boat, etc.

Though, what you said about people buying a radio and having to sell it a few months later, I have seen that. In fact I have seen the same ham do it every year. Year after year after year. Not only radio gear but TV's etc. Said person gets his tax returns, blows it all, and then realizes that he needs things like food, to pay his electric, fix his car etc. I dont much understand that logic. Kind of like when my aunt used to get my cousins their gifts from rent-a-center and then return them the next weekend....

[KG4CGC]

OK. I stopped. Did a double take. Got up. Said, "gifts from a rent a center?" Chuckled a bit. Sat down and picked up the keyboard.

[KB3LAZ]

OK. I stopped. Did a double take. Got up. Said, "gifts from a rent a center?" Chuckled a bit. Sat down and picked up the keyboard.

Yeah. To tell you the truth it was rather heartbreaking. I remember my little cousins coming up to me and telling me what they got for xmas and then the next weekend sobbing because they were gone. Maybe it is just my logic but I would rather buy my children an inexpensive gift that they can keep and enjoy for a long time rather than renting them something only for them to fill with disapointment a week after the holiday because you beloved gift was nothing but a short rendezvous with fun that will become forever a bad memory.

[KG4CGC]

So it was their own mom? Would you like me to slap her for you?

[NY3V]

Rent a Lobbyist for Xmas! ;)

[KB3LAZ]

So it was their own mom? Would you like me to slap her for you?

Yes it was, not a step mom but rather their real mom. No need to slap her. It does not matter any longer. Only being a few years apart in age they are all grown now with kids of their own. Their kids may not always get the latest and greatest toy on the market but when they get something, it is really theirs.

I think pretty much all of us have learned a lifetime of lessons from our elders. Sometimes good, sometimes bad but always for the better. Or something like that.

[KG4CGC]

Soooooo, is your aunt hot?

[KB3LAZ]

Soooooo, is your aunt hot?

If you are into Jabba, I suppose.

[KG4CGC]

LOL! Ha ha, ewwwww.

[ka4dpo]

I might have missed it, but I'm still looking for the answer as to why a new radio in the first place?

I have a lot of old stuff but I also like to have at least one rig in the shack that is the latest stuff. I enjoy my Drakes and old Kenwood radios and I have a lot of other old rigs that are mostly shack ornaments but they all work. I just need to buy a new rig every five years or so to keep from getting bored I guess.

Do I really need a new radio? No I could get by fine without one.

Do I want a new radio? Yes I do.

Can I afford it? Yes I can afford it.

Did my old rig blow up? No but I will find it a new home.

[ka4dpo]

I honesty would look for the 990 to come out around the end of next month or the beginning of the following month. Though, tbh, I would let others buy it and test it too see if it has any major flaws before I bought.

Yeah I totally agree, I would never buy a rig until it has been out a while just to make sure it isn't a dog.

[ka4dpo]

So do I. Especially now that there's now (as of last Saturday) an Argonaut V in the shack.

The Jupiter, BTW, has been quietly discontinued. Sales for it must have finally dropped below the point where another production run was practical; that, or critical parts are no longer available & a redesign is not in the works. I'm not surprised, considering the remote capabilities on the newer rigs.

As I've mentioned before, I do like the K3, and it is relatively easy to use. That panadaptor & the new KPA 500 amp are impressive as well. I wouldn't turn one down if one was given to me... but having run them side-by-side, given the choice, I'll still take an Omni VI+ over a K3 every day of the week & twice on Sunday. It's a close call... but that would be my choice.

If I could find an Omni D series C in really mint condition I would probably jump on it. I always wanted one of those and they are still first class CW rigs with the right filters. I am a bit disapointed in Ten Tec's newer stuff for a number of reasons but I just did not like the Omni VII or the Orion 2 compared to the FTdx 5000D.

I forgot to mention that the Ten Tec Eagle has a better receiver than the Omni VII IMO. I was told by a friend that it performs better than the Kenwood TS-590 and has way better transmit audio. It is however, very small.

[WØTKX]

Omni D Series C? Yessir, have a very nice one with the external VFO. :agree:
It's freaking spooky on CW, and very nice on SSB. Damn proud to have one.

[KB3LAZ]

If I could find an Omni D series C in really mint condition I would probably jump on it. I always wanted one of those and they are still first class CW rigs with the right filters. I am a bit disapointed in Ten Tec's newer stuff for a number of reasons but I just did not like the Omni VII or the Orion 2 compared to the FTdx 5000D.

I forgot to mention that the Ten Tec Eagle has a better receiver than the Omni VII IMO. I was told by a friend that it performs better than the Kenwood TS-590 and has way better transmit audio. It is however, very small.

The series C as a full line comes up for sale now and again. I have seen three sets sell this month for under 500$. That set is on my list for when I get home. As I have to start from scratch, shack wise.

I have a lot of wants on my list.

Omni D C series
Corsair
Omni V
Omni VI+
Triton Digital
Argonaut V

75A-1/32V-2
75A-4

I still have my 271H/471H setup at home. I am not sure if I am going to keep those or go another route for VHF/UHF. I have recently been thinking about getting setup for 2m/70cm/220/1200 when I get back. Now, if I wanted to stick with my 71 series I could get a 1200mhz matching rig but not 6m or 220. For that I would have to go to the 75 set. The 51 set has 2m/70cm/6m but no 220 or 1200....so...to get all I would have to go the 75 series route as I said and that would be rather costly. In that case I may as well invest in a loaded out 736R.

Im excited about setting up a new shack from scratch when I get home. Up until this point my shacks have mostly been Icom with a touch of Yaesu and Kenwood. Time for me to explore a bit.

A Drake 4 series is on my wish list but not top priority.

[N8YX]

I have a lot of wants on my list.

Corsair
Omni V
Omni VI+


Corsair II (have the VFO), Omni V, Omni VI/Opt3 and 2x Paragon IIs will flesh mine out quite nicely. Along with another Hercules II and a couple 253 auto-tuners...maybe a Centurion. Round that out with an FT-980/FTV-901R setup, a couple FT-726Rs and the Icom line for RTTY/digital work.

In the vintage department I'm leaning very heavily towards the FT-301 and accessories. They're a little smaller than the FT-90x and TS-820 stations which comprised the boat anchor position for a number of years - and though I really like those big boxes it's time to let someone else enjoy them.

[KB3LAZ]

Corsair II (have the VFO), Omni V, Omni VI/Opt3 and 2x Paragon IIs will flesh mine out quite nicely. Along with another Hercules II and a couple 253 auto-tuners...maybe a Centurion. Round that out with an FT-980/FTV-901R setup, a couple FT-726Rs and the Icom line for RTTY/digital work.

In the vintage department I'm leaning very heavily towards the FT-301 and accessories. They're a little smaller than the FT-90x and TS-820 stations which comprised the boat anchor position for a number of years - and though I really like those big boxes it's time to let someone else enjoy them.

Idk why but there is just something about the corsair that speaks to me over the II. However, either would be fine I suppose. My intentions for the Corsair are for dedicated local 10m chit chat. In fact, I prefer to have a rig per band.

[W3WN]

Idk why but there is just something about the corsair that speaks to me over the II. However, either would be fine I suppose. My intentions for the Corsair are for dedicated local 10m chit chat. In fact, I prefer to have a rig per band.
There are two noticeable differences between the Corsair & the Corsair II:

(1) Cosmetic... the II is a lighter grey than the original
(2) Functiional: the II has a built in keyer, the original didn't

There are also some small design changes (improvements) in the II. Otherwise, for most practical purposes, they're the same rig.

[KB3LAZ]

There are two noticeable differences between the Corsair & the Corsair II:

(1) Cosmetic... the II is a lighter grey than the original
(2) Functiional: the II has a built in keyer, the original didn't

There are also some small design changes (improvements) in the II. Otherwise, for most practical purposes, they're the same rig.

Yeah, I believe the board for the filters is different. As are the filters themselves. IRRC the Corsair only has one filter, in the first IF and the II has a filter in both the first and second IF?

[W3WN]

Yeah, I believe the board for the filters is different. As are the filters themselves. IRRC the Corsair only has one filter, in the first IF and the II has a filter in both the first and second IF?No, there are filters in both IF's. The filters are the same between both rigs.

[WØTKX]

The original Corsair is the better color. Matches the Omni D's.
I want to get a Swedish Pumper straight key for it.

[KB3LAZ]

No, there are filters in both IF's. The filters are the same between both rigs.

My mistake. I was reading the ten tec wiki and got the impression that this was the case. As well as one coming with an 8 pole and the other with a 4 pole. Maybe I read it wrong or the information is incorrect.

[ka4dpo]

OK so I just ordered an IC-7600 from AES, should be here in a few days. The price was right and the more I thought about it as much as I like the IC-7700 and FTdx5000 I'm not a contester so it would really be a giant waste of money. The specs on the 7600 are good enough for casual operating so I don't expect any problems with it. Besides now I have money left over for other goodies. I'll let you all know how it plays when I get it.

John.

[KB3LAZ]

OK so I just ordered an IC-7600 from AES, should be here in a few days. The price was right and the more I thought about it as much as I like the IC-7700 and FTdx5000 I'm not a contester so it would really be a giant waste of money. The specs on the 7600 are good enough for casual operating so I don't expect any problems with it. Besides now I have money left over for other goodies. I'll let you all know how it plays when I get it.

John.

Enjoy it. :)

[W3WN]

The original Corsair is the better color. Matches the Omni D's.
I want to get a Swedish Pumper straight key for it.
I agree totally. That is my ONLY complaint about the Corsair II. But I can live with it!

[W3WN]

My mistake. I was reading the ten tec wiki and got the impression that this was the case. As well as one coming with an 8 pole and the other with a 4 pole. Maybe I read it wrong or the information is incorrect.Hmm. Maybe the wiki info is incorrect then.

The first IF filter came standard on the Corsair as a 4 pole. At one point in time, TT had a promotion where the dealer -- yes, at one time TT had dealers, I worked for one -- would replace the 4 pole with an 8 pole for free; the 8 pole filter itself cost $100.

[We had one ham who insisted that he would be the one to crack open the box, and wanted us to give him the new filter; couldn't, as we had to send the old ones back for credit. So he ended up 'buying' the filter, with the understanding that he'd get a full refund when he brought back the old one. Which he eventually did]

The 2nd IF filters are the ones that are front-panel selectable. The 500 Hz CW filter is, IMHO, a "must buy" -- the other two filters, well, the 1.8 kHz works well as a "wide" CW filter but is iffy (a little too narrow) as a "narrow" SSB one. The 250 Hz CW filter is almost too narrow, except in heavy CW contest or DX pileup situations. My Corsair II originally didn't have that one, I ended up getting one from someone parting out a dead rig, basically for shipping cost.

[ka4dpo]

I agree that 250 HZ can be a PIA unless you are very adept at using the maint tuning and RIT. Also, I have found (not an issue with Ten Tec rigs) on some of the older rigs they tend to drift a bit and a CW signal can easily slide out of the passband. I still prefer 500 HZ and can ususally pay attention to the signal I want if not too crowded.


Boy $100.00 for an 8 pole filter, installed. Those days are gone.

[KG4CGC]

Hmm. Maybe the wiki info is incorrect then.

The first IF filter came standard on the Corsair as a 4 pole. At one point in time, TT had a promotion where the dealer -- yes, at one time TT had dealers, I worked for one -- would replace the 4 pole with an 8 pole for free; the 8 pole filter itself cost $100.

[We had one ham who insisted that he would be the one to crack open the box, and wanted us to give him the new filter; couldn't, as we had to send the old ones back for credit. So he ended up 'buying' the filter, with the understanding that he'd get a full refund when he brought back the old one. Which he eventually did]

The 2nd IF filters are the ones that are front-panel selectable. The 500 Hz CW filter is, IMHO, a "must buy" -- the other two filters, well, the 1.8 kHz works well as a "wide" CW filter but is iffy (a little too narrow) as a "narrow" SSB one. The 250 Hz CW filter is almost too narrow, except in heavy CW contest or DX pileup situations. My Corsair II originally didn't have that one, I ended up getting one from someone parting out a dead rig, basically for shipping cost.

Ah, how can you tell if the 8 pole IF filter is installed?

[KB3LAZ]

Hmm. Maybe the wiki info is incorrect then.

The first IF filter came standard on the Corsair as a 4 pole. At one point in time, TT had a promotion where the dealer -- yes, at one time TT had dealers, I worked for one -- would replace the 4 pole with an 8 pole for free; the 8 pole filter itself cost $100.

[We had one ham who insisted that he would be the one to crack open the box, and wanted us to give him the new filter; couldn't, as we had to send the old ones back for credit. So he ended up 'buying' the filter, with the understanding that he'd get a full refund when he brought back the old one. Which he eventually did]

The 2nd IF filters are the ones that are front-panel selectable. The 500 Hz CW filter is, IMHO, a "must buy" -- the other two filters, well, the 1.8 kHz works well as a "wide" CW filter but is iffy (a little too narrow) as a "narrow" SSB one. The 250 Hz CW filter is almost too narrow, except in heavy CW contest or DX pileup situations. My Corsair II originally didn't have that one, I ended up getting one from someone parting out a dead rig, basically for shipping cost.

Thank you. Cleared it up for me. As for filters: when I search mine out, filters will be of no worry to me as I will replace them with inrad units. :) 2.4 and 1.8 are too narrow for me. Now, if I can replace the 2.4 with a 2.8 (which is what they sell them for) then I guess I can replace the 1.8 with the inrad 2.1. At that point, I become a happy ham. Or rather, install them if they are not there in the first place. Lol, cant replace it if it is not there. :D

...I have a list of rigs I want to get..and will likely do full Inrad replacements with all of them. I need to set aside a large filter budget.

[WØTKX]

Depending on the shape of the filter skirts, 1.8 for SSB is pretty useful.

[KB3LAZ]

Depending on the shape of the filter skirts, 1.8 for SSB is pretty useful.

For DXing or contesting in a tight band, I would assume. Sounds horrid for long winded chit chat. :P

[W3WN]

Ah, how can you tell if the 8 pole IF filter is installed?
You know, to be perfectly honest, it's been so long now that I don't recall.

It did make an improvement on the receive side, but exactly what, I don't remember.

Of course, if you open the rig up and LOOK at the filter, the 4 pole had 4 crystals on the board, the 8 pole had (*duh!*) 8.

[W3WN]

Thank you. Cleared it up for me. As for filters: when I search mine out, filters will be of no worry to me as I will replace them with inrad units. :) 2.4 and 1.8 are too narrow for me. Now, if I can replace the 2.4 with a 2.8 (which is what they sell them for) then I guess I can replace the 1.8 with the inrad 2.1. At that point, I become a happy ham. Or rather, install them if they are not there in the first place. Lol, cant replace it if it is not there. :D

...I have a list of rigs I want to get..and will likely do full Inrad replacements with all of them. I need to set aside a large filter budget.Inrad makes some very, very good after-market filters.

I should clarify that for CASUAL operating, I don't get a whole lot of use out of the 1.8 kHz filter (on either rig) on SSB. However, when I'm dealing with a pile-up, or doing some hard-core contest operating under crowded band conditions, it does make a LOT of difference.

On the CW side, the 250 Hz filter is actually, IMHO, a touch TOO narrow. For casual operating, I'd prefer to go with a slightly wider one (300 - 350 Hz max). That said, using the narrow filter for casual operating does force you to learn how to zero-beat... and how to use the XIT for those who's transmit & receive frequencies are just SLIGHTLY off.

When contesting, that 250 Hz filter is blessing... unless the two stations are almost zero beat to each other, between the filter and some judicious use of the Pass Band Tuning, I can usually separate two or three stations relatively easily -- and work 'em all, when others are still scratching their... assets trying to figure out who is (*) on the frequency.








(*) Go ahead, say it. You know you want to:

WHO IS ON FIRST. Thank you, thank you, thanks for coming. Don't forget to tip your waitress. Try the veal!

[ka4dpo]

For DXing or contesting in a tight band, I would assume. Sounds horrid for long winded chit chat. :P

I agree with you 1.8 sounds like tin can telephones. The most narrow filter I typically use for SSB is 2.3 KHZ but 2.1 is good enough for contesting unless you really want to get into the middle of the pile. I read somewhere that a 4 disk Collins mechanical filter had the same skirt selectivity as an 8 pole crystal filter. Don't know if that's true or not but since mechanical filters only operate at low IF frequencies I don't suppose you could use one in a Ten Tec rig anyway.

[KJ3N]

Depending on the shape of the filter skirts, 1.8 for SSB is pretty useful.

On my K3 it is.

[KJ3N]

2.4 and 1.8 are too narrow for me.

2.4 to 2.5 is what I usually have set for normal ragchews. 1.8 is for contests.

[KG4CGC]

You know, to be perfectly honest, it's been so long now that I don't recall.

It did make an improvement on the receive side, but exactly what, I don't remember.

Of course, if you open the rig up and LOOK at the filter, the 4 pole had 4 crystals on the board, the 8 pole had (*duh!*) 8.

Thank you.

[KB3LAZ]

2.4 to 2.5 is what I usually have set for normal ragchews. 1.8 is for contests.

Im normally set on 2.8-3. Depending on the rig. Xtal filter or DSP. Etc.

[WØTKX]

Running the 10 Hz filter on the Flex is freaking amazing, and I wouldn't want to try it without the computer interface.

[KG4CGC]

Pictures!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Parts/2012-11-09_17-48-43_659copy.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Parts/2012-11-09_17-48-50_467copy.jpg

[WØTKX]

Look like eight polecats in a couple of spots!

[KG4CGC]

Yeah. I'll have to look in the manual to see what is what. Assuming it's there.

[W3WN]

The "left of PTO" picture is the first IF filter. That was the standard 2.4 kHz 4 pole filter. The replacement 8 pole would be the '220' filter board, obviously this rig didn't get the upgrade.

The "right of" picture is the three second IF filters. The '282' and '285' boards are the two CW filters (250 Hz & 500 Hz respectively), which makes the other the 288 1.8 kHz Narrow SSB/Wide CW filter.

(Yes, I know 4 filters are shown there. The 4th one must be the 'stock' 3 kHz or so filter for SSB that came with the rig)