View Full Version : Suggestions for a good but inexpensive QRP rig
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Yeah, I miss HF. So... I'm anyone have any suggestions for a decent but inexpensive QRP rig? Something that will do CW and can be used for digital modes? I don't care for most of the voice communication on HF and I don't have a good antenna for it anyway, so CW and digital are what most interest me right now. Someday when money's not so tight I'll think about a new rig and antenna for HF phone.
Ideas?
EDIT: My Atlas 210x worked OK for digital but it drifted a lot, otherwise I would have kept it around.
I really liked the Argonaut V, but inexpensive they're not. I've seen used ones in good condition go for $500 and up.
That said, some of the older Ten Tec rigs (Delta, Argosy, Triton) can be had a very reasonable price. Most will handle digital modes with little difficulty, and they're all great CW rigs. Some of these, though, are limited in WARC band accesss.
I would think that, by default, any rig that will do digital, would have to be able to do phone as well. Nearly all the digital modes use SSB (usually USB) for TX. FSK RTTY would be one exception.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 09:45 AM
I really liked the Argonaut V, but inexpensive they're not. I've seen used ones in good condition go for $500 and up.
That said, some of the older Ten Tec rigs (Delta, Argosy, Triton) can be had a very reasonable price. Most will handle digital modes with little difficulty, and they're all great CW rigs. Some of these, though, are limited in WARC band accesss.
Yeah, after looking through ebay, pretty much everything is out of my reach right now. I even saw one for $1800. Are you kidding me? Anything worthwhile is in the $300-400 range and for that I may as well buy a full powered rig. I could easily do CW by rolling my own, I just enjoy digital modes.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 09:46 AM
I would think that, by default, any rig that will do digital, would have to be able to do phone as well. Nearly all the digital modes use SSB (usually USB) for TX. FSK RTTY would be one exception.
Yep. I want to do PSK.
Yeah, after looking through ebay, pretty much everything is out of my reach right now. I even saw one for $1800. Are you kidding me? Anything worthwhile is in the $300-400 range and for that I may as well buy a full powered rig. I could easily do CW by rolling my own, I just enjoy digital modes.What's your price range?
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 10:05 AM
What's your price range?
Not nearly enough right now. I'm going to designate one piece of audio gear I'm selling off for the purpose of buying a "new" HF rig. I'll let you know in a week or two. I'm thinking $250. I remember the days when you could pick up a decent vintage rig for $100. Obviously those days are long over, I just didn't realize it. I haven't looked at buying an HF rig of any sort in quite a while.
Triton IV Digital (544) w/PS under $200: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-Triton-Iv-Digital-544-With-20-Amp-Phase-3-Power-Supply-/150930340444?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transceivers&hash=item2324263a5c
Argosy II Digital (525D) w/PS under $200: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEN-TEC-ARGOSY-II-525D-DIGITAL-READOUT-TRANSCEIVER-W-225-MATCHING-P-S-/330813299700?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transceivers&hash=item4d06025bf4 (wish I had the shekels for that one right now)
There's also an Argonaut V up for auction under $200 as I type this, but that will get bid up pretty quickly (they usually do)
You can also sometimes find an Elecraft K2/10 at a good price (around $300 - 400 depending on condition), and those can normally be upgraded to a K2/100 down the road. But that may be outside of your price range at present.
Not nearly enough right now. I'm going to designate one piece of audio gear I'm selling off for the purpose of buying a "new" HF rig. I'll let you know in a week or two. I'm thinking $250. I remember the days when you could pick up a decent vintage rig for $100. Obviously those days are long over, I just didn't realize it. I haven't looked at buying an HF rig of any sort in quite a while.
Well, also keep in mind that eBay prices get inflated, as they often get bid updated by people looking to flip them for a quick killing (Pat's infamous rat bastids), or by people who have more shekels than brains.
Don't give up. Keep looking. And keep an eye out at hamfests (if you still have any left in the calendar year).
wa6mhz
10-26-2012, 10:12 AM
The best QRP rig is the Yaesu FT-817. or an Icom IC-703 but those are very rare and pricey when found. There are loads of 817s around though. Alotta people buy them, find they have too hard a time getting out, and then dump them cheap. So QRP isn't for the timid. I decided to not take a loss on mine and bought a 100W Chickenband Linnyure to bring it up to a respectable power. I use it for portable operations, and it works very well on PSK
here it is at the Dayton hamvention being used to demo PSK-31.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7083/7220468708_78f1cd419e_c.jpg
I use the little MFJ tuner to get it a perfect match, also highly recommended.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8441/7983138120_1e6dba6d3a_z.jpg
W9WLS
10-26-2012, 10:16 AM
I use an IC-735 quite a bit , but you might need a tuner with one as there is no internal tuner.
I have seen them go for around $300 , and if not trashed make a very good older rig.
Another in the $250-$300 + range that isn't bad is the old TS-520 (also might need a tuner) I have had one I salvaged from a CB'er in the shop which gets used quite often and is a good radio with the exception of not having the "WARC" band's.
KC2UGV
10-26-2012, 10:19 AM
Not nearly enough right now. I'm going to designate one piece of audio gear I'm selling off for the purpose of buying a "new" HF rig. I'll let you know in a week or two. I'm thinking $250. I remember the days when you could pick up a decent vintage rig for $100. Obviously those days are long over, I just didn't realize it. I haven't looked at buying an HF rig of any sort in quite a while.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-9420
Kell,
Right now, I have a TS-520 sitting on my bench. Receives fine, no transmit, and I haven't had a chance to crack it open and investigate; could be a bad driver or finals (I have spare finals). I just don't know how well this old bird will do on the digital modes. Just a thought... I just don't know if it will be worth it to you, especially considering what it will probably cost to ship.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Triton IV Digital (544) w/PS under $200: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-Triton-Iv-Digital-544-With-20-Amp-Phase-3-Power-Supply-/150930340444?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transceivers&hash=item2324263a5c
Argosy II Digital (525D) w/PS under $200: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEN-TEC-ARGOSY-II-525D-DIGITAL-READOUT-TRANSCEIVER-W-225-MATCHING-P-S-/330813299700?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transceivers&hash=item4d06025bf4 (wish I had the shekels for that one right now)
There's also an Argonaut V up for auction under $200 as I type this, but that will get bid up pretty quickly (they usually do)
You can also sometimes find an Elecraft K2/10 at a good price (around $300 - 400 depending on condition), and those can normally be upgraded to a K2/100 down the road. But that may be outside of your price range at present.
Hmmmm. some interesting finds. I searched for QRP. Thank you.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Kell,
Right now, I have a TS-520 sitting on my bench. Receives fine, no transmit, and I haven't had a chance to crack it open and investigate; could be a bad driver or finals (I have spare finals). I just don't know how well this old bird will do on the digital modes. Just a thought... I just don't know if it will be worth it to you, especially considering what it will probably cost to ship.
I'm not familiar with the TS-520. I mean, definitely heard of it just never used one or looked at the specs. Let me look at the specs and let me know how much you'd want for it.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 10:41 AM
I just looked at some reviews on the 520...
Pros:
Built like a tank
Sounds great on the air
100 solid watts on all bands
Cons:
No audio notch
No digital display (unless you have the external DG5 display)
Constant adjustments when changing frequency (tube finals)
One VFO. You cannot work split unless you have an external VFO.
Heavy (approximately 35 lbs.)
Draws a lot of current, even on stand-by.
Lack of filtering options
None of the cons are a big deal to me. I think I have an external filter around here somewhere, if not, you can use software for that for digital modes or I could just build one. Digital display isn't a big deal either. I have a service monitor that will work up to 100 mHz. An old "analog" dial is just fine as long as the thing is stable. The problem with the Atlas 210x was the instability. It would drift 100-200 Hz or more even after warming up for hours. Tuning isn't a big deal either. I've tuned a zillion rigs. Nothing like tuning up a 50 kW AM tube rig or a 25 kW FM rig. Tuning those up wrong gets expensive quick.
Hmmmm. some interesting finds. I searched for QRP. Thank you.
The nice thing about some of the older rigs of this vintage is that while they nominally run 50 - 100 W out, you can easily crank them down to 5 - 10 W out. The Argosy, in fact, was easily switchable between 50 W out & 5 W out.
Look into the Kenwood TS-120, 130, 140, 180, 430 rigs as well. I'd steer clear of the 440 due to it's known processor issues -- easily repairable, but who needs the aggravation?
I just looked at some reviews on the 520...
None of the cons are a big deal to me. I think I have an external filter around here somewhere, if not, you can use software for that for digital modes or I could just build one. Digital display isn't a big deal either. I have a service monitor that will work up to 100 mHz. An old "analog" dial is just fine as long as the thing is stable. The problem with the Atlas 210x was the instability. It would drift 100-200 Hz or more even after warming up for hours. Tuning isn't a big deal either. I've tuned a zillion rigs. Nothing like tuning up a 50 kW AM tube rig or a 25 kW FM rig. Tuning those up wrong gets expensive quick.I only mentioned it because it's sitting. It's one of my upcoming projects (along with a cosmetic rebuild on a TT Corsair power supply, a Swan 3drifty to overhaul, a tuner to build...) and I just don't know when I'm going to get to it yet. I'd only picked it up to pass along to someone else, but that arrangement fell through...
If I come across anything else, I'll let you know.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 11:09 AM
The nice thing about some of the older rigs of this vintage is that while they nominally run 50 - 100 W out, you can easily crank them down to 5 - 10 W out. The Argosy, in fact, was easily switchable between 50 W out & 5 W out.
Look into the Kenwood TS-120, 130, 140, 180, 430 rigs as well. I'd steer clear of the 440 due to it's known processor issues -- easily repairable, but who needs the aggravation?
Yep. The most power I have ever run using PSK was 15 watts. That's plenty and then some. I do like to experiment with some of the other modes, but none of them require nearly as much power as SSB.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I only mentioned it because it's sitting. It's one of my upcoming projects (along with a cosmetic rebuild on a TT Corsair power supply, a Swan 3drifty to overhaul, a tuner to build...) and I just don't know when I'm going to get to it yet. I'd only picked it up to pass along to someone else, but that arrangement fell through...
If I come across anything else, I'll let you know.
Cool, and thank you. I'm def interested in the 520 if I haven't found something before you're done with it.
WØTKX
10-26-2012, 11:16 AM
http://www.qrpkits.com/index.html
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 11:27 AM
http://www.qrpkits.com/index.html
Good stuff. The DC30B is the 30 meter rig I have that drowned in my basement flood. I had pre-ordered it before it was even available and got one of the first ones shipped. Sad.
The 520 can also be used on PSK31 by using a fixed crystal, so no drift.
See here >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TS-520_820_530_830/message/26444
KG4CGC
10-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Ramsey kits can be purchased for $50 or less a pop. Just choose a band.
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/hk/default.asp?page=ar
Sad. They had soooo much more in years past.
N2CHX
10-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Ramsey kits can be purchased for $50 or less a pop. Just choose a band.
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/hk/default.asp?page=ar
Sad. They had soooo much more in years past.
I've actually been to the Ramsey store. I had their 40 meter receiver and transmitter pair a long time ago. The transmitter wasn't bad but the receiver sucked.
KG4CGC
10-26-2012, 02:37 PM
I've actually been to the Ramsey store. I had their 40 meter receiver and transmitter pair a long time ago. The transmitter wasn't bad but the receiver sucked.
You could do the tweaks. I know you could. For one thing, you're a lot smarter and more experienced than the Ramsey engineers. My impression of their engineer staff is that it's basically a beer club. Design takes second place to design.
I have a filtered-up TS-440SAT, a filtered-up, complete TS-130S station, several Cubic Astros (both 10x and 15x models) and assorted other odds and ends I'm going to put up for sale soon.
If nothing else strikes your fancy, get in touch.
I had a TS-120S that I ran as a mobile in my old Chevy vans for many years. Still miss that rig. The 130S was a worthy successor -- and has the WARC bands, which is the primary difference between the '20' and '30' series. (IIRC, the 120 didn't have 160, I don't recall offhand if the 130 did)
I wouldn't mind having a 120 or 130 one day... not today, no place to put one. Kell, you won't regret it. Simple but stable, and it can be worked on. Just add a CW filter if there isn't one in the rig. (And you can crank the power back!)
The TS130S has the WARC bands, I bought one about 6 years ago for the equivalent of $90 (little chance now) and the owner even delivered it for me. It needed a nictotine cleanup and I put LEDs behind the dial but I feel no requirement for anything else. It gives 150W on CW with the right matching.
Some temperature drift whilst warming up, about 100Hz over 20 degrees change, no problem.
K7SGJ
10-28-2012, 03:54 PM
The TS130S has the WARC bands, I bought one about 6 years ago for the equivalent of $90 (little chance now) and the owner even delivered it for me. It needed a nictotine cleanup and I put LEDs behind the dial but I feel no requirement for anything else. It gives 150W on CW with the right matching.
Some temperature drift whilst warming up, about 100Hz over 20 degrees change, no problem.
I picked one up of the TS130s a few years back for $100. Nice radio. The owner had recently sent it in for service, and it was (and still is) in pristine condx. I use it exclusively for digital/cw, and it works very nicely. Problem is, I haven't seen one since for under $250 that was worth a second look.
The 120 or 130 would be a good choice, Kelli. If you find a 120 or anything else that is too drifty, and costly to mess with, there are lots of plans and kits for DDS VFOs built around the AD5932 or it's SMD equivalent. I have the one offered by N3ZI, and it works great as a very stable VFO or sig generator.
KC2UGV
10-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Kelli, Hirch's has a couple of used rigs on their site, and they generally have them in-store too. Pricey, but since they tend to just linger on the shelves there anyways, you could probably haggle them down quite a bit. ie a 120S is on their site for 499, make 'em an offer of $250, and I'll bet they'd jump on it.
N2CHX
10-28-2012, 04:17 PM
Kelli, Hirch's has a couple of used rigs on their site, and they generally have them in-store too. Pricey, but since they tend to just linger on the shelves there anyways, you could probably haggle them down quite a bit. ie a 120S is on their site for 499, make 'em an offer of $250, and I'll bet they'd jump on it.
Ha! I worked there when I was like 19 and my friend works there now. I know them well, they don't haggle down like that for anything.
I would go after a '130 over a '120 - and if at all possible get the DFC-230 synthesizer option if you're contemplating running digital modes with the outfit.
My '130 station has both SSB and CW filters installed, the '230, an SP-120, AT-130 and a PS-30 supply. Heckuva nice outfit but excess to my needs and it'll get sold once I check it out.
KG4CGC
10-28-2012, 04:25 PM
Does that 120 have gold plated knobs and ivory buttons?
KC2UGV
10-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Ha! I worked there when I was like 19 and my friend works there now. I know them well, they don't haggle down like that for anything.
Now wonder it sits on their shelves collecting dust. They are pretty ok with brand new rigs (Especially commercial), but their ham stuff is WAAAY overpriced.
KG4CGC
10-28-2012, 07:43 PM
Now wonder it sits on their shelves collecting dust. They are pretty ok with brand new rigs (Especially commercial), but their ham stuff is WAAAY overpriced.
There's a 706*** collecting dust too, $1465.00
K7SGJ
10-28-2012, 07:57 PM
Does that 120 have gold plated knobs and ivory buttons?
Heh heh heh, he said knobs............:bbh:
W9WLS
10-29-2012, 05:49 AM
Be sure to take a look at the Cathode and screen resistors on the 520.
Quite often if the rig get's run out of tune (for what ever reason) they will open up, Kenwood sized them that way to act as a fuse of sort's.
A good site for info on it is: http://www.k4eaa.com/
I have a copy of the service manual in .pdf if you need it about 8 meg (don't know if Hughes net will let me send that big a file).
I could definitely use that manual. We'll figure a way out.
K7SGJ
10-29-2012, 08:14 AM
I could definitely use that manual. We'll figure a way out.
Here is a couple of links to get the manuals
http://www.kg6haf.com/kenwood.html
http://www.n6wk.com/kenwood/TS-520_service.pdf
W9WLS
10-29-2012, 08:22 AM
Look's like Ed saved me the search,,, disregard my e-mail please !
73, John
Here is a couple of links to get the manuals
http://www.kg6haf.com/kenwood.html
http://www.n6wk.com/kenwood/TS-520_service.pdf
Here is a couple of links to get the manuals
http://www.kg6haf.com/kenwood.html
http://www.n6wk.com/kenwood/TS-520_service.pdfThanks! Got them both.
I did have the hard copy of the 520 manual, but it never hurts to have a spare.
Look's like Ed saved me the search,,, disregard my e-mail please !
73, John
No sweat. I appreciate the thought though.
Kell,
I just became aware of something. I don't know if this would interest you or not.
Bill W3WH has had an Argonaut V for many years. It's had some trouble lately, including low power output. Bill sent it back to Ten Tec, and they returned it not repairable, possibly suffering from static or lightning damage (I haven't seen exactly what they said, and Bill was a little vague as he was telling me, but he didn't have the email in front of him at the time either)
Of course, that can also mean that there's a key part that they no longer have in stock (which doesn't mean you can't get it, just that they're not restocking it); or that it is repairable, but at the factory rates, it would cost too much to fix.
He's planning to donate the rig, as is, as a "parts" rig, to the WASH club. It will be put on the club table at the WACOM hamfest on Sunday as such, proceeds to the club coffers. No, I don't know what he's going to recommend that the club ask for it.
If you want to take a crack at it... it is functioning, but outside of the power issue, I don't know what else it needs... let me know and I'll see what I can arrange. I can't promise anything, but I'll try.
n2ize
12-04-2012, 02:58 PM
If you really want to go rock bottom low cost bare bones ultra QRP CW you could build up one of these Ramsey kits and, with a bit of extra work build up a vfo for it.
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=QRP-SERIES
K7SGJ
12-04-2012, 07:41 PM
If you really want to go rock bottom low cost bare bones ultra QRP CW you could build up one of these Ramsey kits and, with a bit of extra work build up a vfo for it.
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=QRP-SERIES
A creative ham would just put a pair of vice grips on the crystal to vary the frequency.
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