Got Interference on Your New HDTV? It's a Ham...

[N2NH]

Came across this on the interwebs. A supposed Ham being helpful by telling someone with a new HDTV that his interference is being caused by - another Ham. If it's HDTV, then it's very unlikely that a Ham is causing the TVI. Doesn't stop Einstein though...


[iO] HD Channels flicker on and off

I have new 8300HD. Sometimes the HD channels (all the HD channels, but not the regular channels) flicker- the picture and sound keeps jumping on and off for a couple of minutes, then they become stable. Does this sound like equipment failure or something wrong with signal. Any suggestions?


It could be RF interference. Do you have any Amateur Radio operators nearby?

That looks like typical CW (Morse Code) interference, if it was a hum it could be a grounding issue or SSB (Phone/Voice) RF interference. Just an idea... I know when I key up my transmitters it happened until I installed highpass filters on the TV.

Then Mr Helpful posts the name callsign and address of every ham in this guys zipcode - Edited out here.

What is the inevitable response?


What are those names and addresses you gave, because one is only two townhouses away?


Bingo... Those are licensed Amateur Radio operators in Mount Kisco, NY... They are FCC licensed to operate up to 1500 watts on the HF, VHF and UHF bands (frequencies). I am a AR Operator and I had the same exact problem you are having, so I recommend you get a high pass filter and see if that fixes the problem. If it does, it is likely it might be coming from that radio operator when he uses CW (Morse Code).

Morse code is the opening and closing of a circuit, on and off transmissions. It can mess with TVs in close proximity.

Of course, I don't know if that is the problem, but it doesn't hurt to gather some info. Does this happen 24X7? Or is it on and off for a few minutes then stops ofr a while? Does it happen constantly all day and night? If not, then it could be man made.

Also, a lot of AR Operators who live in Townhouses use "stealth" wire antennas, which often means they have inferior grounding (which leads to issues like you're having).

Mr. Helpful then gives the QRZ web address and the FCC ULS Database Addy

He then advises him to install a high pass filter but a few posts later:


It turns out it is not my neighbor. I just spoke to them. They havne't used the ham radio since they moved here over 5 years ago, it is still in the box unpacked. So I guess it is the DVR or the cable. Unless, the addresses on Foxwood Circle are about 2 blocks or more away, could it be them?

Now this is turning into a witchhunt.

Wonder why you have so many problems? It's guys like Mr. Helpful here.

BTW, Mr. Helpful describes himself as "Proud Libertarian Conservative." With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Wonderful guy.

LINK HERE. (http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r17675953-iO-HD-Channels-flicker-on-and-off)

[N2CHX]

Also, a lot of AR Operators who live in Townhouses use "stealth" wire antennas, which often means they have inferior grounding (which leads to issues like you're having).

This was from 2007, but still, what a jackass. Apparently the guy doesn't realize that unless there are spurs or harmonics, the "interference" is due to inferior shielding on cheap consumer equipment and not the ham operator's problem. If it's interference to cable, then the problem is with 99.9999999999% certainty the fault of the equipment at the receiver end. You'd have to be putting out one hell of a spur to leak into a cable system that was shielded to spec.

Reminds me of many TVI/RFI cases I had to deal with in my engineering days. In one case, several homes in a development called "Beacon Hills" got the local newspapers so fired up over interference to everything from computer speakers to furnace thermostats from my 50 kW FM next door, they got some stupid senator to try and force the station, which had been there about 30 years before the development, to move our transmitter site. They lost, of course, but not before making life a living hell for the engineering department for a couple of years -- well, mostly me, because I handled all the interference complaints. People don't like it when you even tactfully try to tell them that their equipment plays your radio station even when it's turned off because it's shit designed and made in China. BTW, remember the name of the development? I'll give you two guesses as to why it was so named...

BTW, here you go, for your amusement: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=five+mile+line+road+penfield+ny&hl=en&ll=43.175717,-77.476015&spn=0.007887,0.021136&hnear=Five+Mile+Line+Rd,+Penfield,+Monroe,+New+Yor k&gl=us&t=m&z=16

[N8YX]

In certain circles this type of person is known as 'Helpy Herper'.

[NQ6U]

You'd have to be putting out one hell of a spur to leak into a cable system that was shielded to spec.

While this is absolutely true, my experience as a cable TV system engineer (my title, but I was really just the chief tech) has shown me that very few CATV systems are shielded to spec, at least not for long after initial construction. Wear and tear on the cables and thousands of connectors—thermal expansion/contraction cycling in particular—eventually allows signal ingress.

Then again, this was back in the days when CATV was completely analog; things may be different now.

[KG4CGC]

The problem originates from the cable companies satellite feed. Sheesh.

[N8YX]

The problem originates from the cable companies satellite feed. Sheesh.
And was compounded by a clueless dumb-ass.

[KG4CGC]

And was compounded by a clueless dumb-ass.

We get the same issue here from time to time. Like a lost signal for just a moment on OTA digital TV. Looks to me like Helpy Herper was gladly willing to throw another ham under the bus.

[PA5COR]

The Bastid......:angry:

[N2NH]

Worse yet, he published every Ham in that zipcode, their name and their address in a public forum. It's not like it's hidden, but then again, he has no trouble hiding behind his 'site name' and doing this does he? And what gives him the right to automatically assume it's a Ham? If I had no trouble finding this, then anyone who looked for HD TV Interference will find it too. And they'll find the QRZ database and the FCC ULS as well.

Thanks for nuthin' numbnuts.

[WØTKX]

I had a neighbor two QTH's ago that called the cops on me when he heard me coming through his TV on 2M SSB.
Presented my FCC license to the cops, and we went next door. I asked if I could inspect the installation.

In less than 10 minutes I found a large splitter installed with three open connections... open, not capped off with 75 Ohm terminators.
I had a bunch, installed them, problem went away. And so did the birdies I had been hearing. Imagine that. :yes:

After I fixed it, the officers shared the complaint stating I was a "damn CB'er".
Neighbor was told he should talk to me first, since I had a federal license.

He got a partial refund from his satellite system installer. :monkeydance:

A few weeks later, he bought some cheap computer speakers. He heard me AND his cell phone in these.
Two ferrite toroids installed, and he took me out to Red Lobster. He now looks for CE, not FCC stickers. :rofl:

[PA5COR]

He now looks for CE, not FCC stickers

CE like Chinese Export?

:mrgreen:

[kb2vxa]

I could tell SO many stories your funny bone would go numb from over-stimulation before we run out of server space and half of them based on a scanner antenna when I had no transmitters. It seems Kel, you're not the only engineer driven to distraction, only their stories aren't funny but just as stupid. As for cable leakage, I've experienced everything from crap on the scanner to 2M RFI in both directions and at one QTH a leak a block away so bad I could watch cable by switching from air to cable and turning my antenna to it. BTW this is a good way to monitor a couple of 70cM ATV channels too. Oh, Comcast finally got wise and dropped channel 18 so bye bye 2M problems.

Being a magnet for every idiot in three counties I don't need a Mr. Helpful and there is another side to the coin, a Mr. Helpful who was really helpful, a ham. Once upon a time I was receiving a strong image on an old single conversion scanner, turns out it was a scheduled net control op on a local repeater. I was hearing his input signal, just a block away it was pretty strong. I paid him a friendly visit one day, told him what was happening and assured him it was on my end and all I needed to know was his transmit frequency. He obliged and I cut a quarter wave coax stub, put it in line with a T connector, problem solved.

Here's an oldie but a goody, enjoy.

[WØTKX]

He now looks for CE, not FCC stickers

CE like Chinese Export?

:mrgreen:

Smartass Socialist!

[KG4CGC]

I could tell SO many stories your funny bone would go numb from over-stimulation before we run out of server space and half of them based on a scanner antenna when I had no transmitters. It seems Kel, you're not the only engineer driven to distraction, only their stories aren't funny but just as stupid. As for cable leakage, I've experienced everything from crap on the scanner to 2M RFI in both directions and at one QTH a leak a block away so bad I could watch cable by switching from air to cable and turning my antenna to it. BTW this is a good way to monitor a couple of 70cM ATV channels too. Oh, Comcast finally got wise and dropped channel 18 so bye bye 2M problems.

<snip>

Been there. 145.250 or 146.250??? There was a repeater I could receive on that frequency. Cable leak, happened, true story. Pointed the antenna at it and it was clear viewing. Being an honest citizen, I reported it to the cable office in charge and got cussed up one side and down the other. I said fine, I can call the FCC if you prefer or you can come down here and I can show you where it is. They hung up. I made a phone call. 5 days later they (cable co) had DF trucks combing the whole area and replacing junction boxes and wire.

[kf0rt]

Here's an oldie but a goody, enjoy.

My mom had that cartoon (original, cut out of the Sunday funnies) hanging up on a kitchen cabinet for eons.

Thanks (and a hat tip) for the trip back. ;)

[KG4CGC]

Nope. Just found out it's Kelli.
It's all Kelli.

[NQ6U]

Nope. Just found out it's Kelli.
It's all Kelli.

No it's not. She was on the Grassy Knoll with me at the time.

[KG4CGC]

No it's not. She was on the Grassy Knoll with me at the time.

So, that puts you at 11 and her at ... at ... a mineral in a field or pasture somewhere or possibly a molecule of air in the atmosphere.
Hey, Carl. Ever think about entropy?

[NQ6U]

Hey, Carl. Ever think about entropy?

Increasingly so.

[KG4CGC]

Increasingly so.

You can measure entropy.

[NQ6U]

You can measure entropy.

I measure it by counting my teeth.

[KG4CGC]

Can you take them out and count them?

[NQ6U]

Can you take them out and count them?

It's a gradual process but, yes.

[KG4CGC]

It's a gradual process but, yes.

As a species, we're outliving our teeth.

[NQ6U]

As a species, we're outliving our teeth.

I don't know about as a species but as an individual I certainly am.

[N2CHX]

LOL Wow, I missed this last night. :lol:

[n2ize]

The hardest thing is to try to explain to a clueless homeowner that it is his equipment that is at fault. After all, he selected, bought and paid for that equipment. So its got to be good, right ? The way many of them look at it is that it is your signal is infringing on their equipment.. If you would just take your signal away then all would be well. You can try and explain the situation till you're blue in the face and they won't get the idea that the piece of consumer grade junk they bought is made in China and one of the reasons it was so cheap was because every piece of rf suppression circuitry was left out to reduce costs.

[W3WN]

I< snip >
As for cable leakage, I've experienced everything from crap on the scanner to 2M RFI in both directions and at one QTH a leak a block away so bad I could watch cable by switching from air to cable and turning my antenna to it. BTW this is a good way to monitor a couple of 70cM ATV channels too. Oh, Comcast finally got wise and dropped channel 18 so bye bye 2M problems.
< snip >Back at the old QTH, several years back, when the cable company was still TCI...

Massive interference to Cable Channel 18, which was supposed to show one of the local low power stations. And I could tell you exactly where the signals were coming from... there was (and still is) a 100 foot or so tower up on McRoberts Road, just about across the street from the Castle Shannon Municipal Building. That tower has all sorts of communications on it -- public service, GMRS, utility, private repeaters, and so forth (and no ham anything, the tower owner wants $$ and no freebies). The specific interference was from the CS VFD transmissions. Obvious that there was a cable leak somewhere letting the signals in.

So one day, I got irritated enough to call the local TCI office and let them know.

Guess what? Yup. The told me it was "that goddam ham cb'er up on Rosalia, right down the street from you. You & your neighbors should all get together report him to the FCC and get him thrown in jail." That explained why we suddenly had bags of dried dog poop show up on our front porch.

So I said, very calmly and quietly "Ah, you are recording this for 'quality assurance', aren't you?"

Pause. "Yeah. Why?"

"Because I want your full name. Because I'm that goddam ham on Rosalia. And I certainly can't be causing interference when (a) I'm on the phone with you, not on the air transmitting, and (b) I don't make fire calls from the dispatcher to the Castle Shannon VFD."

< click >

Yes, I reported it to the FCC. And a week later, we switched to DirecTV anyway.

[WØTKX]

I got the same attitude from Comcast when interference was wiping out their upper channels at my place.

Was NOT on the air. Took 4 letters, and multiple phone calls. They finally gave me a credit to pay for a Palstar filter.

Eventually, I got a letter of apology from somebody in their engineering staff, and HBO+Showtime free for six months.

Yup, they found something. There is a note in my file, to let me be the installer/tech, no arguments. Morons.

[kb2vxa]

"Been there. 145.250 or 146.250???"
I don't remember which but the .250 is correct.
"There was a repeater I could receive on that frequency."
The one I couldn't hear during that massive leak was Northeast Connect with two receive frequencies, one at the site in downstate NY and the other in North Jersey.
"I made a phone call. 5 days later they (cable co) had DF trucks combing the whole area and replacing junction boxes and wire."
I didn't have to, the neighbors did when they got fed up with the interference to ch. 18 no matter what 2M frequency I was on. They replaced the whole kit and kaboodle up and down the street, problem solved. They could have saved a lot of time and money had they asked, using an HT I pinned it down to a rat's nest drop block on a pole on the corner.

"My mom had that cartoon (original, cut out of the Sunday funnies) hanging up on a kitchen cabinet for eons."
By the looks of that yellowy fade somebody scanned that very one. Is that a grease spot on the corner?
"Thanks (and a hat tip) for the trip back."
You're welcome, now copy and archive it.

"Just found out it's Kelli."
The one with the sudsy washer or scared of lightning?

Entropy, a measure of the loss of information in a transmitted signal or message. I suppose losing teeth is also a measure of entropy, loss of sibilants contributes to a loss of information due to restricted bandwidth and lowered baud rate.

[N2NH]

Here's an oldie but a goody, enjoy.

Thanks Warren, that's a cartoon I haven't seen in ages. Very true too.