Another Battery Goes South

[n2ize]

And again, another lead acid battery in one of my APC power backup units went down hard. This time it blacked out my entire network, both routers, the server, phone adapter, etc. No warnings from the daemon that the battery was going bad like I have gotten in the past. . Just BANG and shutdown. In the future I am going to have to make sure I remember to replace the batteries every 1-2 years regardless of anything else.

[ab1ga]

And again, another lead acid battery in one of my APC power backup units went down hard. This time it blacked out my entire network, both routers, the server, phone adapter, etc. No warnings from the daemon that the battery was going bad like I have gotten in the past. . Just BANG and shutdown. In the future I am going to have to make sure I remember to replace the batteries every 1-2 years regardless of anything else.

Maybe you should consider replacing your UPS now.

73,

[X-Rated]

When it went down, was it the result of a glitch in the operation, or was it the result of a power outage and it just didn't sustain power?

[NQ6U]

Well, it is September. Autumn is nigh and it's time for both batteries and birds to embark on their yearly sojourn to warmer southern climes.

[n2ize]

Maybe you should consider replacing your UPS now.

73,
I really need to spend some money and invest in a better quality UPS. The APC's UPS's I am currently using are low end consumer grade with some "smart" features depending on the software you are using. I can monitor the charge, line voltage, and set the time to shut down the system in the event of a power failure. Usually it works flawlessly. I there is an outage it will keep the network up for 10 minutes or so then shut everything down gracefully. When the power comes back everything will start up normally as if nothing ever happened. Unfortunately it would be nice if it also gave me notices when the battery is going weak or when it is over a certain number of years old. Usually APCUPSD (on Linux) does that for me but for some reason this time it didn't. :(

[n2ize]

When it went down, was it the result of a glitch in the operation, or was it the result of a power outage and it just didn't sustain power?

No power outage. It just shut down. My other UPS that I have in the office here did the same thing a few months back. What I suspect happens is the battery runs down and can no longer operate under a load. Then at some point in time... every week or every two weeks the UPS goes into self test mode where it switches to battery for 10-15 seconds runs everything on battery then switches back.. But when it switches to self test and the battery cannot handle the load the voltage drops off and the UPS shuts down abruptly and goes into a steady beep alarm which means "dead battery". Probably a brief power failure would have had the same effect. The problem has is, what good is a self test if it tells me nothing until the battery is useless and everything crashes ? It used to tell me but maybe I don't have things configured the same. Who knows. I have a new battery on order. Maybe it is time I order a smarter professional grade UPS.

[ab1ga]

John, what model of UPS is it?
Some models have a test button on the front which does the same thing as the periodic test but lets you initiate the sequence and view the results as they happen. Naturally, you don't want to do this with computers, but a couple of 100W lamps plugged in should get you a preliminary result.

I'm not a big fan of APC, and have used Tripp-Lite in the past with good results. I've also just bought a Cyberpower UPS for work, which have had some good reviews; time will tell.

73,

[X-Rated]

I have no idea how these things are configured to operate. You can try to test the old battery to see if it opened up or shorted out. This can shed some light on whether the dead battery is creating an undue load on the charge circuit initiating the shutdown. If the voltage is low and you can apply a 500mA voltage source to it and get any voltage quickly on the battery terminals, you have an open battery and I would suspect the UPS as being a real problem because why would the UPS shutdown unless there is some kind of overvoltage crowbar shutting it down. Even then, it seems like they could use some kind of regulator rather than a shutdown sequence.

[n2ize]

I have no idea how these things are configured to operate. You can try to test the old battery to see if it opened up or shorted out. This can shed some light on whether the dead battery is creating an undue load on the charge circuit initiating the shutdown. If the voltage is low and you can apply a 500mA voltage source to it and get any voltage quickly on the battery terminals, you have an open battery and I would suspect the UPS as being a real problem because why would the UPS shutdown unless there is some kind of overvoltage crowbar shutting it down. Even then, it seems like they could use some kind of regulator rather than a shutdown sequence.

I don't know much about lead acid type batteries but it seems like as they age they eventually they reach a state where they will show a normal 12-13 volt open circuit voltage but the second a substantial load is placed on them they drain and the voltage drops off rapidly. This is similar to experiences I've had with lead acid batteries in cars. They will show 13.5 volts with no load but the second you crank the starter motor the voltage drops off and the starter won't even crank... all you get is a starter solenoid click. This is what I suspect is happening with the UPC sealed lead acid batts. With an old and worn out battery the UPS shows normal battery voltage when there is little or no load. But the second a load is put on the battery, either via power failure or self-test the voltage drops way down and the UPS cannot sustain power and shuts down. I put in a new battery and all is well again for the next 1 - 2 years.

Also, from what I hear lead acid batteries are pretty crappy as far as longevity goes. Gel cells are not much better. They simply have to be replaced every 1-2 years. A place I worked in years ago used to have a service tech that would come in every year and yank out the old UPS batteries and install new ones every year. I asked the tech and he claimed that the lead acid batts are good for about a year, maybe 2 years... beyond that you are really taking chances and all bets are off.

[KG4CGC]

Well, it is September. Autumn is nigh and it's time for both batteries and birds to embark on their yearly sojourn to warmer southern climes.

♪ to everything
♫ turn
♫ turn
♫ turn
♪ to every season
♫ turn
♫ turn
♫ turn

[n2ize]

John, what model of UPS is it?
Some models have a test button on the front which does the same thing as the periodic test but lets you initiate the sequence and view the results as they happen. Naturally, you don't want to do this with computers, but a couple of 100W lamps plugged in should get you a preliminary result.

I'm not a big fan of APC, and have used Tripp-Lite in the past with good results. I've also just bought a Cyberpower UPS for work, which have had some good reviews; time will tell.

73,
These UPS's are very basic consumer grade APC "Back-UPS 500's". They have a "smart" usb port for interfacing with software to do shutdowns and a few basic tests but, beyond that they are not true "smart" ups by todays standards. Nonetheless when they are functioning properly they do provide protection from momentary power interruptions, irregular voltage characteristics, and other anomalies as well as providing basic monitoring data, i.e incoming line voltage, approximate battery voltage, approx run times, recent events, etc. They will also shut the systems down gracefully using the operating systems shutdown mechanism provided they have good batteries and are in good working order. I installed them several years ago and have changed batteries periodically.

My main reason for going with APC was reasonably good Linux support at the time, although I hear that might have changed in some newer models.. But I am thinking of upgrading to something of better quality and grade provided my systems are supported and am willing to consider brands other than APC.

[kf0rt]

Power died here about 90 minutes ago (while the gals were cookin' dinner). It's still out. Xcel's map indicates 49-500 cussedomers affected, and all their recordings say is that they can usually fix shit in about 3 hours.

Dragged in one of those car "do everything" thingys (has a power inverter) and plugged in the cable modem, WiFi router and the gigabit Ethernet switch (can't remember how I wired it; the switch might not be required). Kinda surprised that it works but the laptop seems happy.

This has me thinking I should really do a more permanent install for "very basic infrastructure." The wireless phones are dead (base station is upstairs), but would work if it had power. I have no idea how long this car thing will last. Checked the WiFi sniffer using the Kindle (Fire) and it's showing 3 hot spots alive, including mine. Can usually get a dozen or more.

Might be lookin' for a good UPS soon...

[kf0rt]

Power's back on. The Xcel crew spent a bit of time (20 minutes?) in the back yard here with chain saws to get to their box. Said this helped 'em isolate the problem. They left for another box and the power came back shortly thereafter. Wife is convinced we'll get a huge bill for allowing the overgrowth around the box.

Oh, the drama. Pictures tomorrow? You betcha. Maybe.

[WØTKX]

I have been using a CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD for a little over a year.
Along with the West Mountain SuprPowerGate for the radio gear.
No problems with either.

We use a lot of commercial UPS units at work. If you replace the batteries on a schedule, they work very well.
Forget this, or blow it off, they start to deteriorate. Weekly scheduled tests, monitored via an HTML page.

If you take a serious power spike or lightning hit, test 'em very thoroughly.

[n2ize]

Well, I have new batteries installed in both UPS's and I am going to put a new battery in the Verizon FiOS UPS so I am pretty well covered for now. Eventually I'll upgrade to pro-grad UPS's. For now these will do the trick as long as I remember to provide them new batteries every two years and perform a manual run-time calibration every 6 months or so. That may have been my problem. On these cheaper UPS's the UPS's "power test" doesn't do a run time calibration,. That has to be done manually and when those run times start getting short it's time to replace the batts. Otherwise they worlk very well and have saved the day many times.

[WØTKX]

I like the CyberPower unit I got. It's sort of a "Pro-Consumer" unit. Lots of features, small and quiet.
Has enough current to power the PC, two 23" monitors, router, and cable modem.

We have an AT&T "MCell" units that give our phones more bars in the house. I should plug that into the UPS too.
Power failure does not mean the cable is dead. Similar to a telecom land line, but we don't "do that" anymore.

Someday, I will eff with solar power. Betts put together a solar fountain that looks nice and makes cool noises.
Listening to it makes me want to pee. :snicker: