I think we're narrowing it down.

[N7YA]

Devie and I have seriously had it with this goddamned town and all its broken, self centered, daftly rude and severely undereducated residents. We are giving ourselves 2 full years to save money, incorporate the business, build equity in our current assets and get our credit back into the 800's after taking hits with all the big purchases. Other factors are my son graduating high school and turning 18, downscaling our lives in general and the big one, learning to let go of my current job and lifestyle and walking away to start the next chapter. Ive had it here, we are both at the end of our rope and are sick to death of this city and its horrible ways. Its beyond repair now....latest exapmle, UPS delivered our order of special catfood for our 3 cats yesterday, quite expensive, some dirty motherfuckers ran off with it.....catfood! We felt this way when we left the house, but it really drove the point home once we got home and realized these people are THAT low. We dont drink, we dont do massive amounts of cocaine, i dont cheat on my wife or fuck strippers, we hate HOA's up our ass as much as you guys do, i dont like blingy, mouthy, showoffs...place is chock full of them, we dont gamble, smoke or run other drivers off the road. We are low key, fairly intelligent, friendly 40-something, pagan, liberal, bohemian artists with a twisted sense of humor and a taste for seafood...we are not welcome in Las Vegas.

Now that ive explained why we want out of here, ill explain where we are headed. For about 4 hours the other night, we were set on moving to Hawaii because my wife is an islander (the real kind), and lived there as a child. We researched the hell out of it and asked many questions of the native islanders that we know...that idea went away pretty quickly for reasons i can give if you really want to know. It is now only on the vacation list again. We are more focused on Maine than ever before, its a done deal. Our only issue was where in Maine. I was Gung Ho for living on the coast in a small fishing village, my wife wanted a mountain chalet...which i also love the idea of. Back to the good old internet and friends who are born and raised Mainers. Just knowing the Mainers i do, they are super friendly, very down to earth and smart. All college grads and extremely proud of their state and long to return to it...that really stood out to me.

My wife and her ex, many years ago, lived in Maine. They lived in Brunswick, on the coast by Boudoin college. Thanks to him and his fucked up head and indecision (her words), they moved here. Good for me, not for her, but she has always longed to go back there. Thanks to Google Earth, we can drive the streets of Brunswick...or Las Vegas...or Istanbul...and look around. We were in the virtual parking lot of their old apartment, and we explored the town, she wasnt happy with how it had grown into a freeway town, so we searched the coastline for more places. Most are beautiful coastal villages with a few shitholes thrown in because every state has them. Once we settled on a couple that we liked, we researched the town, the entrepreneurial opportunities, the housing market, demographic, the vibe, etc...Boothbay and Belfast stood out. Then i searched the housing market, thats where we hit the wall. The houses are all old and worn, but expensive. You are paying for the location, so we had to be smart and walk away from the idea of living on the coast. I even checked out numerous other coastal towns, all the same way...awesome!...but old and expensive. Again, we will visit frequently.

Then Devie told me about a town they drove through once up by the NH border called Bethel (http://www.bethelmaine.com/) (linky right there). Its a town of about 2600 folks or so. Regular mountain people. It looks fine from the outside, but after really digging into the research, its a lot cooler than it seems. Very Celtic, liberal, artsy vibe to the place...and the artists there are bad asses! So, this spring, we are flying to Boston, renting a car and taking our list of towns to explore and B&B's, and hitting the road for a week or two. Then its serious money saving mode. Oh, and check out the houses that they have a lot of up there. http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Bethel_ME?source=web ....just scroll to page 4 and start there, the first few pages are a bit too thick for us at the moment. Log chalets near the ski resort, new and energy efficient, big with lots of room for antennas...many for under 300k, we arent ready to go yet, but we are bloody well determined! Not to mention folks who mind their own biz, yet are nice, that was her experience there. Its worth a good look. Dev also has plans for a cool business that she is well versed in, coffee and art, i think it would do well there.

So...there, i feel better thinking about the beautiful views of the rolling Maine mountains and lobster rolls, and less about catfood stealing douchebags now. It will give me something else to focus on. So you east coasters will be seeing me afterall! Question though, has anyone been up there and can report anything? Thats it for now. Getting excited again now that we actually have somewhat of a game plan for bringing peace to our weary souls...we worked hard enough and put up with well enough to deserve this. :)

[W3WN]

They stole the catfood?

Unless they're senior citizens trying to live on Social Security and not much else, that is pathetic.

Get out.

[KB3LAZ]

My neighbors were from Hawaii and moved from what they said a state that was plagued with poverty and crime. They adjusted to PA life rather well and I have never had better neighbors. The wife was native to the island and the husband was native to the house he moved into across from me. It was his fathers and when he passed the kid got it. Damn good neighbors, I tell you.

I have been blessed in that way. Having good neighbors that is.

I really dont know much about any place aside from my home town, some towns in Ohio, and where I have my vacation cabin in TN. Well, my neighborhood in Spain now as well. So, I can not speak for your town, state, etc or Hawaii from personal experience. All I can tell you is that if it bugs you that much then yes, it is time to get out. Enjoy your life while you still have time. =)

That aside, I miss my hometown. :P Im a small town kinda guy and I think that is the way I will always be. At least I gave the city a chance.

[X-Rated]

... I was Gung Ho ....

Oh no. Another gung-ho thread.


Regular mountain people.
Cue dueling banjos. :chin:

[PA5COR]

Lived in, but never liked big city's, my hometown here has 35K peeps and i live on the edge of the town, big enough for me, lots a shops to buy stuff, and not big enough to get you stiffled.

[X-Rated]

We're kicking around the idea of moving away from here. In the talking stage. We have roots and all though. It's hard.

[VE7MGF]

compared to the prices here I'll take two

[KC2UGV]

Not trying to dissuade from a decision made, but check out WNY if you can while visiting the NE. You'll find a few areas that might meet your fancy. Not the real rural, liberal areas, so much; but you can find semi-rural liberal areas here aplenty.

And, Ohio. Southern/Central OH. I know they mostly vote red, but the rural areas are shockingly liberal from my experience, and awfully nice people.

[W5GA]

And, Ohio. Southern/Central OH. I know they mostly vote red, but the rural areas are shockingly liberal from my experience, and awfully nice people.
Not to mention that the N.E. generally is really pretty.

[KC2UGV]

Not to mention that the N.E. generally is really pretty.

That is true. We've got perty Pines :) And Oaks, maples, etc etc :D

[N7YA]

We still have a couple of years to prepare, and Maine is my native state, but we would be remiss to not explore all sorts of options. We will be flying into Boston in the spring...were planning to go north from there, but may zip on over to PA and visit mom. Who knows where else we may end up! We feel, for this trip anyway, that making a general list then exploring from there is the best way to get a feel for a place and its people. Afterall, we are looking at our potential neighbors, we sure as hell know that the ones in Vegas aint it! No matter what, every day that passes is one day closer to leaving this place forever.

[XE1/N5AL]

For what it's worth:

If you are considering a relocation to a new area, consider renting for 6 months. That will give you time to discover if the place is really for you. It will also make you more savvy to the local housing market and let you get your bearings on what part of town you want to live in. Then, if you like the town, buy the size home that closely fits your lifestyle. If you will be "empty nesters" and won't be throwing many lavish dinner parties, you won't need a six bedroom house with a large formal dining room. Living in a smaller space has it's advantages. Heating and cooling costs are cheaper. Maintenance expenses are lower because there are fewer things to go wrong. Also, you won't lose things as often, as there are fewer places where stuff can hide.

[n2ize]

Places I'd consider moving to if I ever had to leave the NYC Tri-state metro area.

1) Camden
2) Detroit
3) Baltimore
4) Boston
5) Philly
6) St. Louis
7) Pittsburgh
8) Cheyenne
9) San Francisco
10) Any place where I can see the ocean from my window
11) Alaska

Outside the USA

12) Canada / Northwest or Yukon territories
13) Paris
14) Beijing
15) Rome
16) St. Petersburg
17) London

Not necessarily in the ordering mentioned. Permutations are acceptable. :)

My preference is to live in or near major cities.

[KB3LAZ]

Places I'd consider moving to if I ever had to leave the NYC Tri-state metro area.

1) Camden
2) Detroit
3) Baltimore
4) Boston
5) Philly
6) St. Louis
7) Pittsburgh
8) Cheyenne
9) San Francisco
10) Any place where I can see the ocean from my window
11) Alaska

Outside the USA

12) Canada / Northwest or Yukon territories
13) Paris
14) Beijing
15) Rome
16) St. Petersburg
17) London

Not necessarily in the ordering mentioned. Permutations are acceptable. :)

My preference is to live in or near major cities.

My wife lived in both London and Paris. Before living there she thought they would be dream locations. Her biggest opponent was pricing. She says that going out was one of the biggest killers on the wallet. The cost of a flat was another. Said the pay was good in both places however price did not reflect pay. I suppose a commute could solve that issue. Live in a town on the outskirts and work in the city. Then again, people often do this in the states as well. I did out of necessity not out of comforting my wallet.

I do like where I live now for the most part. City aside. There are aspects of living in the city I will never adapt to nor do I wish to. That being said, when we leave, there will be things that I do miss. IE: the ease of access to amenities and describable items. Lucky for me I live on the edge of the city so the noise is down but still there. I also live in a good neighborhood and that is a very big plus. However, being told what I can and can not do with my place is a real pain in the ass.

Something that was odd to me is that renting an apartment is very rare here and most buy them. This may be common to cities in the US as well but I have no idea.

All in all I will be happy when we land back in the boonies.

[N2NH]

Had to leave The City. The prices were insane and going up all the time. They were double, triple, sometimes even quadruple what we'd seen in our trip to Hell, FL. We knew that there was no way to afford living there. People were subsisting, worrying every time the Rent Guidelines Board met to set the legal percentage a landlord could charge when increasing the rent at lease renewal. Some had gotten the apartment from their parents had lived for decades in the same building and were one step from being homeless. A man worth $30 million once pleaded in court that he was poor. He won! By New York standards, $30 million WAS poverty.

So, where did that leave the rest of us?

Rudy once said if you can't afford to live here, move. Mayor Mikey said the same thing, twice. Good advice. It's not easy, but sometimes it is necessary.

One bit of advice. Don't live too close to the seaboard. The sea levels are rising. I could see the difference living less than a mile from the Atlantic Ocean in Brooklyn. A very big difference. If the predicted avalanche effect happens, those sea levels will go up in a few minutes. If you're lucky, and survive, you'll have to move anyway.

[N7YA]

For what it's worth:

If you are considering a relocation to a new area, consider renting for 6 months. That will give you time to discover if the place is really for you. It will also make you more savvy to the local housing market and let you get your bearings on what part of town you want to live in. Then, if you like the town, buy the size home that closely fits your lifestyle. If you will be "empty nesters" and won't be throwing many lavish dinner parties, you won't need a six bedroom house with a large formal dining room. Living in a smaller space has it's advantages. Heating and cooling costs are cheaper. Maintenance expenses are lower because there are fewer things to go wrong. Also, you won't lose things as often, as there are fewer places where stuff can hide.


For sure. All good advice. We are research freaks, we will be making several trips there to scout before making the actual jump. My son doesnt live with us currently so we should transition fairly well, and we are downsizing our lifestyle quite a bit (read that as *I* am downsizing the amount of crap i am hanging on to), so we already know it will be either a 3 or 4 BR house, big kitchen. No parties at all, just us. View is a must, there are plenty of those there so were set. Judging by the research, the housing prices are based on these chalets being built as single family homes, but rented out to ski clubs, so the selling prices are low while more of these chalets are being built at a slow but steady pace. Bethel has numerous construction contractors and RE agencies in a town of 3000...that says something. But there are also no Starbucks, Walmarts, large chains, etc because the economy is small enough to allow mom-n-pops to thrive, yet strong enough for them to survive.

Heating is natural gas tank, solar and fireplaces. Many of these homes have central air, though it is rarely needed. The town is really into energy efficiency and the construction companies employ this type of building seeing as it gets down to about zero in the dead of winter, and rarely over 80 in summer. I am looking forward to being more hands on in living, playing and being a part of a community again. Seems to be good opportunity for an upstart business too. We have a lot of things to get done and secured before we go, we are very conservative and wont leap like that without looking. ;)

[N7YA]

Places I'd consider moving to if I ever had to leave the NYC Tri-state metro area.

1) Camden
2) Detroit
3) Baltimore
4) Boston
5) Philly
6) St. Louis
7) Pittsburgh
8) Cheyenne
9) San Francisco
10) Any place where I can see the ocean from my window
11) Alaska

Outside the USA

12) Canada / Northwest or Yukon territories
13) Paris
14) Beijing
15) Rome
16) St. Petersburg
17) London

Not necessarily in the ordering mentioned. Permutations are acceptable. :)

My preference is to live in or near major cities.


Camden?? Detroit??



Oh you, John! :lol:

[W3WN]

Places I'd consider moving to if I ever had to leave the NYC Tri-state metro area.

1) Camden
2) Detroit
3) Baltimore
4) Boston
5) Philly
6) St. Louis
7) Pittsburgh
8) Cheyenne
9) San Francisco
10) Any place where I can see the ocean from my window
11) Alaska

Outside the USA

12) Canada / Northwest or Yukon territories
13) Paris
14) Beijing
15) Rome
16) St. Petersburg
17) London

Not necessarily in the ordering mentioned. Permutations are acceptable. :)

My preference is to live in or near major cities.Camden? Camden NJ?

[n2ize]

Camden?? Detroit??



Oh you, John! :lol:

Both great places to get properties at a low price. Then you rent them out. Also a great places for doing light industry. Plenty of people who could use the work.

[ab1ga]

Adam,

Sorry to hear that LV is such a drag, but good to hear you may be heading back this way.
Asked Google a couple of things about Bethel, just out of curiosity.

My one concern is that from what I can see the closest acute care hospital is over 100 miles away in NY. If you plan on making this your retirement QTH, this could be a concern. It bears a second look.

And, although Oxford County has a lower cost of living than the rest of Maine, Maine can be quite expensive, and in some cases taxes more heavily than Massachusetts. I personally am willing to pay for a civilized society, so the taxes aren't a bogeyman to me, but it looks like there are a lot of small tax burdens rather than just one large bill.

I used to live in Conway, NH, before the outlets took over, and Bethel reminds me of Conway. Conway, and that whole region in fact, relies very heavily on seasonal tourism for its livelihood, and goes into holdover mode between holiday surges.

Make sure you let people know early you were born in Maine and are coming home; doors will open which would otherwise remain tightly shut. After all, you're from the big city now.

And if you're gonna heat with wood, forget fireplaces, they're awful. Look into a masonry heater, also known as a Finnish stove. They're much more efficient, have less risk of chimney fire, only need to be fed once every day or even two, and can heat the whole house easily if the floorplan is open enough. They are often custom installations, but Tulikivi has standard models which can simplify things. The cost is about $10k for the whole thing, but those tile stoves are just super.

Good luck in your search,

.dale.

[W3WN]

Both great places to get properties at a low price. Then you rent them out. Also a great places for doing light industry. Plenty of people who could use the work.There's a reason that those prices are low. But good luck with that.

[N7YA]

Adam,

Sorry to hear that LV is such a drag, but good to hear you may be heading back this way.
Asked Google a couple of things about Bethel, just out of curiosity.

My one concern is that from what I can see the closest acute care hospital is over 100 miles away in NY. If you plan on making this your retirement QTH, this could be a concern. It bears a second look.

And, although Oxford County has a lower cost of living than the rest of Maine, Maine can be quite expensive, and in some cases taxes more heavily than Massachusetts. I personally am willing to pay for a civilized society, so the taxes aren't a bogeyman to me, but it looks like there are a lot of small tax burdens rather than just one large bill.

I used to live in Conway, NH, before the outlets took over, and Bethel reminds me of Conway. Conway, and that whole region in fact, relies very heavily on seasonal tourism for its livelihood, and goes into holdover mode between holiday surges.

Make sure you let people know early you were born in Maine and are coming home; doors will open which would otherwise remain tightly shut. After all, you're from the big city now.

And if you're gonna heat with wood, forget fireplaces, they're awful. Look into a masonry heater, also known as a Finnish stove. They're much more efficient, have less risk of chimney fire, only need to be fed once every day or even two, and can heat the whole house easily if the floorplan is open enough. They are often custom installations, but Tulikivi has standard models which can simplify things. The cost is about $10k for the whole thing, but those tile stoves are just super.

Good luck in your search,

.dale.


Thanks Dale! LV has worn out its welcome. By the time we leave, i will have been here 30 years too long. To be honest, nobody ever really envisions living here their entire life. We dont drink or party at all, so immediately that puts us into a severe minority here.

Lots of good info there. I Googled the hell out of the place, and the county as well. There is a full scale hospital in Rumford, the next town over, and Bethel has the equivalent of a Quickcare...this was an important factor for us as well. I think we can be ok as Rumford is about the same distance from Bethel as it is to get to work from our house right now. And Portland has a bigger hospital than that, about an hour away. At least there are local medics to stabilize you until you get to one of those.

We understand the taxes will be higher, especially if we are planning on opening a small business. It seems like one of those kinds of quirks that we would just have to get used to. We thought about the seasonal thing from a business perspective, it could be great in winter due to the Sunday River ski resort, but will slow down to your basic tourism from larger cities in summer, mostly leafers in fall, and festivals in spring. It will have the challenges that most small towns face. As a younger man, these things would drive me crazy, but we've lived in various places and learned what we like and dont like, a slower pace is definately what we want...we just need to make sure we can afford it. The taxes are definately something for us to look closer at so we can get comfortable with it, we arent scared of them either...just a fact of life when you get down to it.

We're kind of hoping the Walmarts and Starbucks stay away, but anymore these days, its next to impossible...no matter what the townfolk think. Protest all you like, the big guys will shove it down your throat. Locals will learn to love them and they will forget all about why they were mad and somehow not notice the mom-n-pops getting run out and disappearing one by one. I like to keep an eye on that sort of thing.

As for the Mainers, no worries. ;) We plan on putting it that way anyway since we dont like to claim being from Vegas too much. But funny you mention that since we discussed it. My wife found the last time she was there (shes a transplant, im the only one born there), that the folks were very open and curious about where she came from and somehow found it 'exotic', i suppose. All they cared about was if she was friendly, up front and not shifty or boisterous. We're nice folks, but i will definately be pulling the native Mainer card when needed, and ill be sure not to make shit up and openly admit ive "been away". :yes: Oh, and the "coming home" part is a nice touch, as i feel it would be accurate. Im practicing my "ayup" and "Daow!", Mainer-speak can be confusing.

The heating. Great info! Many of these chalets have in-wall fireplaces. Growing up in Alaska, i know these arent as efficient unless you are in a cabin and everyone is sitting around it. It radiates heat in one direction to one area only. I have found, however, that big, freestanding stoves, out away from the wall, can heat up the big, open expanses of a chalet quite nicely. The only issue, they get hungry! While i dont mind chopping wood, we may have to leave the house for a while and will need to keep the temps even. So we should look into a masonry heater like you suggested, and if it is practical, bite the bullet. Thanks for the info, Dale. We have a couple of years to prep, but its going to happen...thats a given! Bethel is just one of a few ideas we are trying to envision ourselves in. Like 'YDK said, its important to visit, maybe rent (which we would have to do anyway as we settle in) to get a feel for a place and make sure its what we want. Right now, its in front of the pack, but who knows.

[N7YA]

Both great places to get properties at a low price. Then you rent them out. Also a great places for doing light industry. Plenty of people who could use the work.


I sincerely hope, for your own safety, that you are in "sarcastic John" mode! Ive been to Camden....once is enough. Ive mentioned it before, my family settled Camden back in the 1600's, lets just say my ancestors would die there by noon if they were dropped in today.

[n2ize]

There's a reason that those prices are low. But good luck with that.

Oh trust me, I know why the prices are low. The whole idea to making money under those circumstances is strategy with careful focus on housing market variables. Many years ago I knew a guy who was investing in properties in the South Bronx (late 70's early 80's). People scoffed at him and told him he was crazy., "why invest in such a depleted neighborhood ?". But he had a strategy that worked and he made a killing. Nowadays I would like to partner up and do a similar thing a la' Camden, Detroit, or countless other cities and small town areas that are trying to recover. Important thing to keep in mkind. People don;t have a lot of money these days, people need reliable and reasonably comfortable places to live at reasonable rates, and, people need work. If you can fill any of those needs you are at an advantage and, you are helping an otherwise depreciated comminity to recover.

[W3WN]

All righty then.

All I can tell you is this... back in July, when we came up from Ocean City MD to visit my mom in West Trenton for an afternoon before heading home, the damn Tom-Tom GPS insisted on routing us through Camden. And my wife, who ought to know better, ignored me and followed the GPS. At least she finally listened to reason before the blasted toy rerouted us into Philly -- it had an obsession with going up I-95, no matter what I thought.

I didn't think Camden could have gotten any worse since the last time we went through there. It has. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[KG4CGC]

All righty then.

All I can tell you is this... back in July, when we came up from Ocean City MD to visit my mom in West Trenton for an afternoon before heading home, the damn Tom-Tom GPS insisted on routing us through Camden. And my wife, who ought to know better, ignored me and followed the GPS. At least she finally listened to reason before the blasted toy rerouted us into Philly -- it had an obsession with going up I-95, no matter what I thought.

I didn't think Camden could have gotten any worse since the last time we went through there. It has. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

Ah! Reminds me of the Mapquest days. Routing you through tourist traps and spitting you back out on the highway a mile away from where you left it. I make my own maps now and use the GPS to just see if they match up. I DO NOT PUT A ROUTE INTO THE GPS FOR IT TO TELL ME WHERE TO GO.

[WØTKX]

I like to use Google maps, and pull the "trip line" off the straighter roads and freeways... so it lands on the squiggly lines.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/3517213_o.gif

[n2ize]

I sincerely hope, for your own safety, that you are in "sarcastic John" mode! Ive been to Camden....once is enough. Ive mentioned it before, my family settled Camden back in the 1600's, lets just say my ancestors would die there by noon if they were dropped in today.

Right now I don't have the money to invest. A couple of years ago I did and I and a friend were eying a couple of multiple dwellings in the Camden area. The real estate who was holding them said they would sell quick and we doubted him. Two weeks later we called and he told us they were gone, sold, about two hours after we last spoke with him.

I have been to Camden and yeah, its run down and the area is rough. But no worst than the South Bronx I remember as a child. If you go to Camden looking for trouble you will find it. But otherwise nobody is going to cut your throat just for being there. Just like nobody cut my throat for being in the South Bronx back in the 1960's. I spend a lot of time in rough neighborhoods, And I am not afraid, One thing I learned. If you go looking for trouble you'll find it. Otherwise you'll most likely pass through unnoticed and not bothered. I am not particularly afraid of Camden Nobody is going to kill me there unless I give them good reason to.

[w0aew]

http://www.cityhomeconstructions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Tiny-House-on-Wheels.jpg

[N7YA]

http://www.cityhomeconstructions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Tiny-House-on-Wheels.jpg

We actually thought about it.