Skilled Work, Without the Worker

[NY3V]

6937

(http://Factories like the one here in the Netherlands are a striking counterpoint to those used by Apple and other consumer electronics giants, which employ hundreds of thousands of low-skilled workers.)"...Factories like the one here in the Netherlands are a striking counterpoint to those used by Apple (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/apple_computer_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and other consumer electronics giants, which employ hundreds of thousands of low-skilled workers. “With these machines, we can make any consumer device in the world,” said Binne Visser, an electrical engineer who manages the Philips assembly line in Drachten..." :shock:


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/business/new-wave-of-adept-robots-is-changing-global-industry.html?src=me&ref=general

[PA5COR]

Funny isn't it?
When automatisation started everybody predicted people would be unemployed and hell would break loose.
Fact is we still have low unemployment, created new jobs like programmers and factories like Phillips that use or make robots, invent new technology and take repetitive jobs to robots, making the old employer free to do other work, more suited for humans.

Robots have been in the production a long time, nothing new here.
The only change is we can keep production in our own country and the firms delivering the raw materials too.
New technology has always one of the strong points here, if that is Phillips, Unilever, Shell, Heineken or ASML to name a few.
ASML is one of the world's leading providers of lithography systems for the semiconductor industry.

[n2ize]

Unskilled or low skilled workers are now free to work as programmers, systems analysts, scientists, mathematicians, musicians, etc.

[WØTKX]

Robots and mechanized production is pretty good if done properly. Repetitive tasks are not what humans shine at. We are good at tending the machines when something goes wrong, and especially the creative thinking that programs them. It's a change in the paradigm that started with the Industrial Revolution, and it's still evolving.

Way back when, farming was a tedious repetitive chore that consumed all our time from sunup to sundown.

We still like to hunt, explore, and create. Finding the novel and the new, recognizing and/or making patterns out of chaos... our brains are wired for that.

[PA5COR]

Lots of these people here went in government provided work and learn programs and became skilled labourers.
Making more money now and having a better job to boost as well, what's wrong with that?

[n2ize]

Lots of these people here went in government provided work and learn programs and became skilled labourers.
Making more money now and having a better job to boost as well, what's wrong with that?

Problem is they aren't creating enough of those "better jobs". At least njot in this place. Yeah, it's nice to close an auto plant and replace some guy who sat and screwed a bolt in all day with an automated robot that does it and now he can go to school and get a degree and do some skilled job. . But it's not so nice when the guy gets laid off and he isn't offered any skilled position and has to take some crappy minimum wage job because his family has to eat and he is too laboured down trying to make ends meet to be able to go to school for that degree or that vocation or skill. We've got plenty of college grads who can;t find work or end up taking jobs way below their skill level, i.e. tending bars, slinging burgers, washing cars, etc.I personally know more than 1 skilled + experienced person who is going through hell to find work. So how many jobs and opportunities are going to be open for that unskilled laborer who was replaced by a robot ? Maybe your country does it better than we do. I would not be surprised. Working people are considered expendable here.

[N7YA]

Unskilled or low skilled workers are now free to work as programmers, systems analysts, scientists, mathematicians, musicians, etc.



Hey! wait a minute!

[W5GA]

I used to work at the Sony TV plant just outside San Diego, which is heavily roboticized. One of the things the one-armed wonders did was move picture tubes of all sizes from here to there, and they did this by planting a suction cup on the face of those old, really heavy Trinitron tubes. The largest made there was 36", and weighed about 150 lbs. One day, one of the PLC's controlling a robot went haywire, and the robot started chucking the tubes about 20'. It must have launched 30 tubes before someone could hit the emergency stop. What a pile of broken glass!

[N7YA]

...i wonder how the robot fit through the door of the office to have his "sit down" with the boss.

[PA5COR]

Unemployment is still low here, meaning that all people that have been replaced by robots or more efficient mannners of producing still got a new job, helped by the schooling/work program.


Same goes for our agriculture, just a few % of the people work in agriculture, but production belongs to the world top in export of agricultural produce.
http://www.hollandtrade.com/sector-information/agriculture-and-food/?bstnum=4909

The Netherlands is one of the world's largest exporters of agricultural and food products, thanks to its innovative agrofood technology. The Dutch agrofood sector is a sustainable source of healthy, safe food that is produced with respect for nature and the environment.

The Netherlands is the world's second largest exporter of agricultural products, after the USA. Together with the USA and France, the Netherlands is one of the world's three leading producers of vegetables and fruit. It supplies a quarter of the vegetables that are exported from Europe. The agri-business is one of the driving forces behind the Dutch economy.

- There are some 50,000 farmers, or agricultural entrepreneurs, in the Netherlands, distributed over various crop and animal sectors such as arable (crop) farming, dairy farming and pig farming.
- The agricultural sector makes up approximately 10 percent of the Dutch economy and provides work and income for more than 660,000 people.
- The sector has a strong international focus and accounts for almost 20 percent of the Netherlands' total export value.
-. More than half of the Netherlands' total land surface of 4.15 million hectares is used as farmland. 56 percent if used for arable and horticultural crops, 42 percent is permanent grassland and 2 percent is used for permanent crops.
- There were 23,210 arable (crop) farm businesses in 2010.
- In 2010, there were more than 10,000 hectares of greenhouses in the Netherlands. Half of this, 5,000 hectares, was used for growing vegetables.
- Tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers are the biggest greenhouse crops.
- The Netherlands exported 1 billion kilos of tomatoes in 2009.
- The most common arable crops are: potatoes (seed, starch and edible), winter corn, summer barley, sugar beets and onions.
- Production value of crop farming in 2010 was 2 billion euros. Potatos accounted for half of that sum.
- Of the one hundred most competitive products produced in the Netherlands, about half derive from the agriculture and food sector.
- The Netherlands exported 260 million kilos of cheese in 2009.

Unemployment here is about 5% counting all unemployed.

[NQ6U]

I used to work at the Sony TV plant just outside San Diego, which is heavily roboticized. One of the things the one-armed wonders did was move picture tubes of all sizes from here to there, and they did this by planting a suction cup on the face of those old, really heavy Trinitron tubes. The largest made there was 36", and weighed about 150 lbs. One day, one of the PLC's controlling a robot went haywire, and the robot started chucking the tubes about 20'. It must have launched 30 tubes before someone could hit the emergency stop. What a pile of broken glass!

I would have really liked to have seen that, Doug.

[kb2vxa]

My berserk robot story is from Alpha Wire and happened on a Sunday night during a thunderstorm. Lightning hit the warehouse totally upsetting the robots, one like a forklift on steroids ran amok down an aisle, shot up to full height and punched a hole in the roof. Rain poured in finishing off controls and the 480V 3 phase overhead tracks and fortunately the floor robots that ran off batteries just sat and watched the mayhem. Monday morning we were greeted by the mess and spent the greater part of the week with computer parts, motors and gears slowly figuring out where they go. Remember the show Robot Wars? Yeah, you get the picture.

[XE1/N5AL]

Foxconn has not disclosed how many workers will be displaced or when. But its chairman, Terry Gou, has publicly endorsed a growing use of robots. Speaking of his more than one million employees worldwide, he said in January, according to the official Xinhua news agency: “As human beings are also animals, to manage one million animals gives me a headache.”
Top management values its loyal employees.

[n2ize]

Unemployment is still low here, meaning that all people that have been replaced by robots or more efficient mannners of producing still got a new job, helped by the schooling/work program.

Problem is here we discourage such things. Programs designed to help people, train or educated them for better jobs, etc. are routinely under the scrutiny and on the chopping block. And any proposals for such programs are met with vehement opposition from the GOP.



Same goes for our agriculture, just a few % of the people work in agriculture, but production belongs to the world top in export of agricultural produce.
http://www.hollandtrade.com/sector-information/agriculture-and-food/?bstnum=4909

The Netherlands is one of the world's largest exporters of agricultural and food products, thanks to its innovative agrofood technology. The Dutch agrofood sector is a sustainable source of healthy, safe food that is produced with respect for nature and the environment.

The Netherlands is the world's second largest exporter of agricultural products, after the USA. Together with the USA and France, the Netherlands is one of the world's three leading producers of vegetables and fruit. It supplies a quarter of the vegetables that are exported from Europe. The agri-business is one of the driving forces behind the Dutch economy.

- There are some 50,000 farmers, or agricultural entrepreneurs, in the Netherlands, distributed over various crop and animal sectors such as arable (crop) farming, dairy farming and pig farming.
- The agricultural sector makes up approximately 10 percent of the Dutch economy and provides work and income for more than 660,000 people.
- The sector has a strong international focus and accounts for almost 20 percent of the Netherlands' total export value.
-. More than half of the Netherlands' total land surface of 4.15 million hectares is used as farmland. 56 percent if used for arable and horticultural crops, 42 percent is permanent grassland and 2 percent is used for permanent crops.
- There were 23,210 arable (crop) farm businesses in 2010.
- In 2010, there were more than 10,000 hectares of greenhouses in the Netherlands. Half of this, 5,000 hectares, was used for growing vegetables.
- Tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers are the biggest greenhouse crops.
- The Netherlands exported 1 billion kilos of tomatoes in 2009.
- The most common arable crops are: potatoes (seed, starch and edible), winter corn, summer barley, sugar beets and onions.
- Production value of crop farming in 2010 was 2 billion euros. Potatos accounted for half of that sum.
- Of the one hundred most competitive products produced in the Netherlands, about half derive from the agriculture and food sector.
- The Netherlands exported 260 million kilos of cheese in 2009.

Unemployment here is about 5% counting all unemployed.

Well as I suspected. Your country seems to be more into assuring the well being of its working people. Round here they'll kick someone out and they could care less what happens to them,

[n2ize]

I used to work at the Sony TV plant just outside San Diego, which is heavily roboticized. One of the things the one-armed wonders did was move picture tubes of all sizes from here to there, and they did this by planting a suction cup on the face of those old, really heavy Trinitron tubes. The largest made there was 36", and weighed about 150 lbs. One day, one of the PLC's controlling a robot went haywire, and the robot started chucking the tubes about 20'. It must have launched 30 tubes before someone could hit the emergency stop. What a pile of broken glass!

Hah... robot vandals !!! That sounds almost hilarious, But I am sure it wasn't funny when it was actually happening.

[W5GA]

I would have really liked to have seen that, Doug.
That was the plant out in Rancho Penasquitos, Carl. It was quite the sight.

[N7YA]

I would have really liked to have seen that, Doug.


Me too! But from a safe distance, of course. Sounds like a storyline right out of distopia.

[PA5COR]

We consider our workforce as the most valuable asset we have, without them no production, so keeping them schooled, and trained during their working time,incent them to step up the ladder in their work, keeping them healthy with universal healthcare and when down like being unemployed with an unemployment benefit that is 70% of their old wages and if that is too low they get subsidizing to pay rent and taxes.
In that time they get help, training and work projects to learn another trade or to become better in their old work, and active looking for placement in other employers jobs, even helping out these employers to take on these people.

They are the largest taxpaying group, the middle income group, that also spends their wages into the market keeping the economy going.
They have saved up over a trillion euro's in retirement money that is used to keep the economy going and a large part is invested in the USA keeping 8 million jobs there going.

The 16.7 million peeps in the Netherlands have 600 billion euro in savings accounts in the banks or put in investment schemes.
Most Dutch not only pay in to the state retirement fund, but like me have a sideline extra retirement fund where we pay in to add to our retirement when we go in pension at 65.

Employers, workforce and Government work together to solve sociaal and work problems before they become a real problem, and strikes are unheard of here, lots of people are in a union though.

Most companies above a certain number of workers have their own internal council where employer and employees work together to improve the quality of the firm and their working conditions, good for the owners and workforce.

That keeps motivated well trained workforce to a maximum profit for the firm and the workers profit too.

[NA4BH]

THIS (http://news.yahoo.com/norwegian-gallery-loses-rembrandt-mail-002442985.html) guy must have missed a few union meetings.

[XE1/N5AL]

This (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/world/europe/botched-restoration-of-ecce-homo-fresco-shocks-spain.html) artist could easily make a duplicate of that lost Rembrandt.

[KG4CGC]

Fully robotic manufacturing actually furthers the cause of Socialism.

[NQ6U]

Soon, heavy industry will make it possible for all the people to have everything it desires in a free marketplace, tovarisch.

[WØTKX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln_People


The novel takes place in a future in which people can create clay duplicates (called "dittos" or golems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)) of themselves. A ditto retains all of the archetype's memories up until the time of duplication. The duplicate lasts only about a day, and the original person (referred to in the book as an archie, from "archetype", or "rig", from "original") can then choose whether or not to upload the ditto's memories. Most dittos want to inload, so that their experience will be continuous with that of their archie.

Most people use dittos to do their work, as they are affordable even for the poor. Many also use dittos to experience pleasure which could hurt a real person. Dittos come in many colors, which signify their quality and intended role. A cheap ditto suitable for housework is green, whereas a quality one for business is gray. Ebonies are highly specialized dittos that are good at intelligent data analysis; platinums are only used by the very rich, and closely resemble real people. Ivory dittos specialize in the reception of pleasure and sexual fulfillment. Other colors of ditto (such as purple, red, and yellow) exist, but are rarely mentioned.

[N7YA]

This (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/world/europe/botched-restoration-of-ecce-homo-fresco-shocks-spain.html) artist could easily make a duplicate of that lost Rembrandt.


Speaking as a man who enjoys drawing and history....OMFG!!!

[kb2vxa]

Archies and dittos, are you talking sci-fi or politics?

[NY3V]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln_People



7011

Similar to Golems?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Golem.html

[WØTKX]

Umm, yea. It's a pretty good SF story, actually. I've read WAY too much SF.

It shows. ;)

The ditto thing is pretty funny in a political context.