10 Worst States to Retire In (AARP)

[KK4AMI]

Since a lot of us are or near retirement, I thought this would be interesting. After all AARP has our best interests in mind.

http://www.aarp.org/work/retirement-planning/info-09-2010/10-worst-rated-states-for-retirement.2.html

[NQ6U]

Really surprised me that CA didn't make the top (or bottom, depending how you look at it) ten.

[W4GPL]

Really surprised me that CA didn't make the top (or bottom, depending how you look at it) ten.Well, going on the 3 main criteria.. crime, cost of living, and climate -- California has a lot of very safe moderately price rural-ish communities with great weather.. especially for seniors. :dunno: Seems like most of these places on the list are expensive and cold as heck. :)

[kf0rt]

Seems like most of these places on the list are expensive and cold as heck. :)

Well, it was a list of the worst.

Me, I'm thinking of retiring in an arroyo in NM somewhere.

[NQ6U]

Well, going on the 3 main criteria.. crime, cost of living, and climate -- California has a lot of very safe moderately price rural-ish communities with great weather.. especially for seniors. :dunno: Seems like most of these places on the list are expensive and cold as heck. :)

Yeah, I went and actually looked at the criteria after I made my post.

CA came in at #32, more or less at the bottom of the middle third, which seems about right. The tax burden is high here, although not as high as a lot of other states but the economy is okay and the climate, of course, is hard to beat.

[W4GPL]

Well, it was a list of the worst.Yeah, I know. I was just commenting as to why California probably wouldn't be on that list.

[W4GPL]

Yeah, I went and actually looked at the criteria after I made my post.

CA came in at #32, more or less at the bottom of the middle third, which seems about right. The tax burden is high here, although not as high as a lot of other states but the economy is okay and the climate, of course, is hard to beat.California gets a lot of crap for being a hopeless ungovernable wasteland full of freaks just waiting to drop into the ocean, but any time I'm there (outside of urban LA), I always love it. The countryside towns, especially up north are great. I could certainly see myself settling in a place like that.

[KC2UGV]

Wow, NYS has the 6th highest cost of living?

I guess they just average it, because the COL in WNY is decidedly lower than most of the nation. NYC must be skewing the entire state hard.

[N8YX]

Wow, NYS has the 6th highest cost of living?

I guess they just average it, because the COL in WNY is decidedly lower than most of the nation. NYC must be skewing the entire state hard.
NYC skews everything in NYS, as Emperor Bloomberg would have it.

[NQ6U]

California gets a lot of crap for being a hopeless ungovernable wasteland full of freaks just waiting to drop into the ocean, but any time I'm there (outside of urban LA), I always love it. The countryside towns, especially up north are great. I could certainly see myself settling in a place like that.

Yeah, I love Northern California. Of course, I hail from there so I'm probably not exactly a detached observer. My XYL had to drag me kicking and screaming down here to San Diego because I thought it would be just an extension of LA. Turns out that it's not at all, in fact it's got more in common with the Bay Area--an abiding dislike of Los Angeles being one commonality.

[W4GPL]

My fondest memories are bumming around California during the summer when I was 17. Every day was something new. We spent a week or so around San Diego, the county fair during the day, the beach at night..

And LA is a wasteland, as far as I've ever been able to tell, but even some of the sprawl isn't so bad.. Redlands, Ontario, etc..

[kf0rt]

Only been to CA three times in my life. First was a family road trip in 1970 (was 14) to Fresno and SF visiting relatives. Second was another road trip with a HS buddy in '74 to San Diego. That was a hoot. Third was my honeymoon (back to SF) in '78. We actually looked into Las Vegas first, but they had a convention in town and we couldn't find a room. SF was better anyway. Love that place, but it's probably changed a bit in 30 years. My Grandpa lived there until he died in 1985. Never owned a car...

[WØTKX]

A bunch of family trips to Ukiah in the 60's and 70's, raisin' hell with the cousins. My great uncle owned the White Truck dealership and service center there for years and years. Even got some patents for equipment he designed to refurb injectors.

I remember driving into town the first time... and seeing the "Belchfire Chemical Company". Still makes me laugh.

[kf0rt]

Parents settled in CO in the 50's to get away from their parents. Mom's side: Berkeley area in CA. Dad's side: Albany area, NY. Been to both, but not much and not in a long time. Gramps (Mom's Dad) was the head of the microbiology department at UC Berkeley. Dad's Dad was a preacher in a small village "across the river" from Albany. He passed away in '65.

My fucked-uppedness comes honestly. All genuinely good people though.

[N2RJ]

NYC skews everything in NYS, as Emperor Bloomberg would have it.

NY state is still expensive as hell. The catskills are nice though.

[N2RJ]

So I see New Jersey did not even make the top 10. I think I can explain that. Apart from property taxes, our taxes are actually not that high, and seniors get the property taxes frozen anyway. Besides, it's mainly North East Jersey that is expensive.

That said, I do not know if I will be remaining in this state when it is time to retire. I think I'm nice Caribbean location may be calling me for retirement.

[n2ize]

Wow, NYS has the 6th highest cost of living?


I guess they just average it, because the COL in WNY is decidedly lower than most of the nation. NYC must be skewing the entire state hard.

It's not just skewed by NYC but also by many of the affluent communities surrounding NYC, such as my area and some of the very rich neighborhoods bordering my area. . NYC property taxes are high but my property taxes are higher than what some people I know in NYC are paying. Couple that with some of the highest heating and electricity rates in the country and this is an extremely expensive place to live. When winter comes I look forward to the cold weather but I am grateful when it is mild in terms of heating costs. Ditto for hot summer weather. I like the heat but I don;t like the cost of cooling the place down. This break of cool weather we are having right now is an economic blessing.

Main reason i stay hear is because in so many other ways its a great place to be. There is so much to do here and all within short distance of home. Plus I can get the best pizza in town. And I'm only a few minutes drive from NYC (appx 20 min drive from Manhattan). it would be very hard for me to part this area, even in retirement. If I do ever retire and leave I'll probably head to Alaska or Northwest Canada or the Yukon territory.

[NQ6U]

My montly utility bill only rarely hits $100 for gas and electricity combined. Of course, no A/C here either and the house is small.

[n2ize]

My montly utility bill only rarely hits $100 for gas and electricity combined. Of course, no A/C here either and the house is small.

Hah !! I WISH mine were that low. We get our power from Con Edison. With plenty of emphasis on the CON part.

[KG4CGC]

I noticed that no one ever called the AARP a "progressive" organization until the ads on the radio told you to.

[KK4AMI]

I was all set to move to North Carolina next to the Albemarle Sound, but I guess Virginia is the better retirement state. I never would have guessed.

[KC2UGV]

NY state is still expensive as hell. The catskills are nice though.

Most of NYS is not. I'd challenge people to find a city with property taxes lower than Buffalo's (Averages about $2000 a year, skewed up by some of the mansions here). Cost of living is lower than most other areas I've considered (Even Texas, which has a rather low cost of living).


It's not just skewed by NYC but also by many of the affluent communities surrounding NYC, such as my area and some of the very rich neighborhoods bordering my area. . NYC property taxes are high but my property taxes are higher than what some people I know in NYC are paying. Couple that with some of the highest heating and electricity rates in the country and this is an extremely expensive place to live. When winter comes I look forward to the cold weather but I am grateful when it is mild in terms of heating costs. Ditto for hot summer weather. I like the heat but I don;t like the cost of cooling the place down. This break of cool weather we are having right now is an economic blessing.

Main reason i stay hear is because in so many other ways its a great place to be. There is so much to do here and all within short distance of home. Plus I can get the best pizza in town. And I'm only a few minutes drive from NYC (appx 20 min drive from Manhattan). it would be very hard for me to part this area, even in retirement. If I do ever retire and leave I'll probably head to Alaska or Northwest Canada or the Yukon territory.

That's what I'm surmising. It's mostly downstate and Ithaca skewing it so high.

[N7RJD]

If this list follows suit with many others the top and bottom lists will just about reverse themselves by the time the next list comes out. People will flock to those places listed best driving the cost of living up and bringing crime with them. Automatically two strikes toward certain decline.

[n2ize]

Most of NYS is not. I'd challenge people to find a city with property taxes lower than Buffalo's (Averages about $2000 a year, skewed up by some of the mansions here). Cost of living is lower than most other areas I've considered (Even Texas, which has a rather low cost of living).


Fulton county in the Adirondacks is (or at least was) one of the economically poorest counties in the state. But one of the most beautiful in terms of landscape and scenery.




That's what I'm surmising. It's mostly downstate and Ithaca skewing it so high.

Oh yeah. Downstate is wwhere the high taxes and high cost of living prevails. It definitely drives up the average for the entire state.

[N2RJ]

Stafford, TX (gotta love TEXAS!) has no property taxes. In fact about a dozen cities in Texas have no property taxes. And yes, they have services and no debt.

[n2ize]

Stafford also has a fraction of the population of this general area (excluding NYC) and also probably a fraction of the expenses.

[N7YA]

No matter what, im quite sure Maine will stay off a LOT of retirees to-do list. Were sticking with that one.

[KB3LAZ]

If I ever retire and it so happens to be in the states it will be in either Kentucky or Tennessee. I have felt this way since I was 9 years old. I do have particular areas in mind too. The pace is slow, the weather is decent, lots of space and time to fish, cost of living is fair, etc.

[KC2UGV]

Stafford, TX (gotta love TEXAS!) has no property taxes. In fact about a dozen cities in Texas have no property taxes. And yes, they have services and no debt.

Texas also has pretty high other taxes too, and their services are minimal, at best. And, they get bokku dollars from the Federal government due to the military installations (8 of them I believe, one of which is the largest CONUS installation).

I lived in Texas for 6 years, and saw first hand.

An example? I got my Driver's licenses in Texas without taking a written or road test.

Health care programs for low income? Barely there.

In Texas, you one of the following (Generally, of course there are exceptions): A soldier, a worker at Walmart, or a wealthy rancher.

[KB3LAZ]

Texas also has pretty high other taxes too, and their services are minimal, at best. And, they get bokku dollars from the Federal government due to the military installations (8 of them I believe, one of which is the largest CONUS installation).

I lived in Texas for 6 years, and saw first hand.

An example? I got my Driver's licenses in Texas without taking a written or road test.

Health care programs for low income? Barely there.

In Texas, you one of the following (Generally, of course there are exceptions): A soldier, a worker at Walmart, or a wealthy rancher.

My uncle is now a social worker in Texas. Before that he was a teacher. He said he had a hard time buying groceries. He ofc used to teach in PA so I assume that the pay scale for teachers down in Texas is significantly lower.

Before that, you guessed it, he was a soldier. Lol.

[N2RJ]

Stafford also has a fraction of the population of this general area (excluding NYC) and also probably a fraction of the expenses.

Stafford has more people than my town.

[N2RJ]

In Texas, you one of the following (Generally, of course there are exceptions): A soldier, a worker at Walmart, or a wealthy rancher.

We are talking about retirees. I don't expect working people to want to move to a place with no jobs or services.

Retirees don't need much in the way of services. Roads, basic infrastructure, access to healthcare. Many probably don't need low income healthcare (if they are over 65 they get access to medicare). They don't need top schools or any of that stuff. They need mostly a place where they can stretch their limited retirement dollars.

[KC2UGV]

We are talking about retirees. I don't expect working people to want to move to a place with no jobs or services.

Retirees need workers, to perform services lol



Retirees don't need much in the way of services. Roads, basic infrastructure, access to healthcare.

And, in all 3, Texas is lacking.


Many probably don't need low income healthcare (if they are over 65 they get access to medicare). They don't need top schools or any of that stuff. They need mostly a place where they can stretch their limited retirement dollars.

And, in Texas, that ain't the place. My electric bill during the warmer half of the year never dropped under $150. Oft times it was $300.

Medicare? Good luck finding a provider who takes Medicare in Texas. Last I checked, it's only accepted at the county hospitals.

[KB3LAZ]

Retirees need workers, to perform services lol



And, in all 3, Texas is lacking.



And, in Texas, that ain't the place. My electric bill during the warmer half of the year never dropped under $150. Oft times it was $300.

Medicare? Good luck finding a provider who takes Medicare in Texas. Last I checked, it's only accepted at the county hospitals.

My electric bill in PA was rather high. 300$ was a cheap month.

[N2RJ]

Retirees need workers, to perform services lol



And, in all 3, Texas is lacking.



And, in Texas, that ain't the place. My electric bill during the warmer half of the year never dropped under $150. Oft times it was $300.

Medicare? Good luck finding a provider who takes Medicare in Texas. Last I checked, it's only accepted at the county hospitals.


Finding a Medicare provider is difficult in a lot of places, because quite frankly it doesn't pay much (thank you Government).

People available in Texas to do work... you mean like fixing up your house etc? LOL, yup there's definitely a shortage of that in Texas. (not) :lol:

Texas is #31 (lowest to highest) nationwide for electric rates. NY is like the 3rd highest after CT and HI. http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

The good thing about Texas is that you don't have to buy heating oil or pay for other fossil fuel (nat gas, propane).

Let's face it, Texas is faaaar better as a retirement destination than New York. The only people I really hear that retire to NY are people who have lived there forever or who live downstate who don't want to move far from the city they love.

[N2RJ]

My electric bill in PA was rather high. 300$ was a cheap month.

One of my friends pays like $500/month in New Jersey. In my old apt I was paying $170/month electric year round for a crappy 1000 sq ft apt.

[KB3LAZ]

One of my friends pays like $500/month in New Jersey. In my old apt I was paying $170/month electric year round for a crappy 1000 sq ft apt.

Oh, I know. In the summer with AC it was $500-$575 a month. In Spain it is 75€ a month. This is not the biggest place but not small either. 3 bedroom, 2 full bath, attached living and dining room, with a separate kitchen. There is also a dedicated washroom for clothing that has an enclosed balcony for hang drying as well as an full balcony at the back of the place overlooking the courtyard. In reality this place is not a lot smaller than my main home in the US and yet the utilities are so much cheaper. Though, here we do pay for water on a different bill but that is cheap enough that it is not really worth mentioning.

Idk what the norm is but when I lived in OH my electric bill for a 4 bedroom house was $120 a month and there were five of us living there. Lol. Hell of a lot different than PA.

[N2RJ]

Now in the house, electric is really nothing because we don't use AC much during the summer (we have shade and it is cool). Our electric bill is on average $120/mo and about $160/mo during summer. We run it at 75 degrees and it's on a timer.

Winter time though gets pretty damn expensive. If we use propane it can be upwards of $6000 per season to heat the house. We use firewood and an EPA certified wood burner so that cost is cut down some (but firewood is a LOT of work!)

[KC2UGV]

Finding a Medicare provider is difficult in a lot of places, because quite frankly it doesn't pay much (thank you Government).


It's not difficult here in WNY. And, every provider I've done consulting for loves both Medicare and Medicaid. They are both the least hassle, and both use the same data transmission systems, so every practice management system can talk to both, out of the box.



People available in Texas to do work... you mean like fixing up your house etc? LOL, yup there's definitely a shortage of that in Texas. (not) :lol:


No, there isn't a "shortage" of unskilled labor. It's just all you've got there.



Texas is #31 (lowest to highest) nationwide for electric rates. NY is like the 3rd highest after CT and HI. http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm


And, you use a hell of a lot more to cool your home. My combined electric/gas bill here monthly is $150.



The good thing about Texas is that you don't have to buy heating oil or pay for other fossil fuel (nat gas, propane).


No, you just use electricity for all that, which is very inefficient.



Let's face it, Texas is faaaar better as a retirement destination than New York. The only people I really hear that retire to NY are people who have lived there forever or who live downstate who don't want to move far from the city they love.

I lived in Texas for 6 years. I would never retire there.

[N2RJ]

No, there isn't a "shortage" of unskilled labor. It's just all you've got there.

Must be why Texas A&M, the DFW metroplex and all of those places are full of nothing. :lol:

Incidentally, we lost AT&T in this state to Texas too. A lot of businesses are moving and have moved there.


And, you use a hell of a lot more to cool your home. My combined electric/gas bill here monthly is $150.

Pretty easy when you live in the house the size of a shoe box, near to natural gas too (in a city most likely).



No, you just use electricity for all that, which is very inefficient.

Electrically powered heat pumps are more efficient than most other heating methods.


I lived in Texas for 6 years. I would never retire there.

Texas is a big place.

But we get it. You don't like texas. People freely carry their guns around there, and you don't like guns, and about the only liberal place really is Austin.

[KG4CGC]

Factor in the racist factor for Texas vs the N.E.
Ryan, you would be viewed as an uppity black man.
It bad enough that I've been called a n***** here.

[wa6mhz]

NO ONE can complain about the SoCal Weather, and that is what OLD FOLKS are most sensitive to. (I know I sure am!)
us CODGERS can't even COMPREHEND having to SHOVEL SNOW day after day, October to May. SNOW SUCKS (unless U are a Skiier) NO SNOW HERE in San Diego, except up in the mountains on rare occasions. Us old foks like to be very comfortable, in our Rest Homes. Easy to walk with our Walkers here in San Diego. We have our Oxegyn bottles and DEPENDS. Our Hospital gowns and Blue Hair. Our Scooters and our GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. Nope, I just couldn't FATHOM living anywhere but San Diego. Hawaii might not be too bad, but they have big SPIDERS there.

[KB3LAZ]

NO ONE can complain about the SoCal Weather, and that is what OLD FOLKS are most sensitive to. (I know I sure am!)
us CODGERS can't even COMPREHEND having to SHOVEL SNOW day after day, October to May. SNOW SUCKS (unless U are a Skiier) NO SNOW HERE in San Diego, except up in the mountains on rare occasions. Us old foks like to be very comfortable, in our Rest Homes. Easy to walk with our Walkers here in San Diego. We have our Oxegyn bottles and DEPENDS. Our Hospital gowns and Blue Hair. Our Scooters and our GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. Nope, I just couldn't FATHOM living anywhere but San Diego. Hawaii might not be too bad, but they have big SPIDERS there.

Shit, Im a young buck and I hate snow with a passion!

[N2RJ]

Factor in the racist factor for Texas vs the N.E.
Ryan, you would be viewed as an uppity black man.
It bad enough that I've been called a n***** here.

You think so? Nah.

Besides, I'm not black. I share many of the same origins as the Governor of your state. How did she get elected with all the racism anyway?

[W4GPL]

:wall:

[N2RJ]

:wall:

Jeff, if it's one thing, I am not going to do is masquerade as something I am not.

I am not white but I am not black either, not that there is anything wrong with being either of those. I really hate such broad labels anyway.

[N2RJ]

NO ONE can complain about the SoCal Weather, and that is what OLD FOLKS are most sensitive to. (I know I sure am!)
us CODGERS can't even COMPREHEND having to SHOVEL SNOW day after day, October to May. SNOW SUCKS (unless U are a Skiier) NO SNOW HERE in San Diego, except up in the mountains on rare occasions. Us old foks like to be very comfortable, in our Rest Homes. Easy to walk with our Walkers here in San Diego. We have our Oxegyn bottles and DEPENDS. Our Hospital gowns and Blue Hair. Our Scooters and our GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. Nope, I just couldn't FATHOM living anywhere but San Diego. Hawaii might not be too bad, but they have big SPIDERS there.

Yep, that's another reason why New York sucks for retirement, especially upstate NY. They get an unbelievable amount of snow. Either you pay someone to remove it or break your back doing it. Snow blowers make it a hell of a lot easier but you still have to get out in the cold to do it.

[W4GPL]

Jeff, if it's one thing, I am not going to do is masquerade as something I am not.

I am not white but I am not black either, not that there is anything wrong with being either of those. I really hate such broad labels anyway.That wasn't his point! As far as I'm aware, Charles isn't black either. People in those parts of the world are too fucking ignorant to even know the difference. Dark skin == nigger.

[N2RJ]

That's wasn't his point! As far as I'm aware, Charles isn't black either. People in those parts of the world are too fucking ignorant to even know the different. Dark skin == nigger.

They elected Governor Nikki Haley who is an (American born) Indian.

There are absolutely some places which will not see past the color of your skin, as there are in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Colorado and other states. But that doesn't mean you can't find somewhere where you can get along with people.

I do in fact have relatives in Texas (DFW). They love it there.

You'll find racism everywhere you go. Even in Trinidad and Tobago there were places where if you are not black you are not welcome.

[KG4CGC]

You think so? Nah.

Besides, I'm not black. I share many of the same origins as the Governor of your state. How did she get elected with all the racism anyway?

That's a stupid question. You know how she got elected because you cowtow to the same people that she does.
Is THAT the answer you wanted? You know it's true. She's pushing their agenda, said all the right things, had the right people, Sarah Palin talk nice about her and the fact that she has Indian background and is a woman makes her a useful tool in the GOP agenda.

BTW, I know you're not black. I've seen pictures of you or your evil twin of the same name traced back to the India/Pakistan area. You are however missing the point, you would be called a racial slur in Texas, likely to your face. The difference is that in SC, until the last couple of years that is, people did that kind of thing behind your back. Now with the Radicals taking over the GOP, it's back to the open racism of the past unless of course you can be a useful tool.
Sure, some people will treat you with respect. They're not the ones you have to worry about.

[N2RJ]

That's a stupid question. You know how she got elected because you cowtow to the same people that she does.
Is THAT the answer you wanted? You know it's true. She's pushing their agenda, said all the right things, had the right people, Sarah Palin talk nice about her and the fact that she has Indian background and is a woman makes her a useful tool in the GOP agenda.

BTW, I know you're not black. I've seen pictures of you or your evil twin of the same name traced back to the India/Pakistan area. You are however missing the point, you would be called a racial slur in Texas, likely to your face. The difference is that in SC, until the last couple of years that is, people did that kind of thing behind your back. Now with the Radicals taking over the GOP, it's back to the open racism of the past unless of course you can be a useful tool.
Sure, some people will treat you with respect. They're not the ones you have to worry about.

I have been called racial slurs in New York too. I had a guy spit on my car and tell me that he doesn't like fucking rag heads. Racism is everywhere.

What you are saying is that the South is bad because there are racist people who live there. You're saying that the GOP is bad because a few people said racist things. The NE doesn't seem all that better either, and I think that enduring a little racism isn't bad if it means I'll live a more comfortable life and not drain away my retirement funds down the tax hole.

[NQ6U]

Just curious, Ryan: how much time have you spent in Texas?

[N2RJ]

Just curious, Ryan: how much time have you spent in Texas?

I've been to DFW off and on for work, a week at a time. I've been to Nashville, TN too.

[NQ6U]

I've been to DFW off and on for work, a week at a time. I've been to Nashville, TN too.

I've spent a lot of time in Texas; DFW isn't very much like the rest of the state. Get out of the big city and into the countryside and see if you still hold the place in as high esteem.

[KC2UGV]

I've been to DFW off and on for work, a week at a time. I've been to Nashville, TN too.

Definitely a better source of opinion than a person who has lived there for an extended period of time.

Hell, I can now offer solid opinions on Detroit, Chicago, NYC, and Knoxville. Never lived in any of those places, but I've been to each for at least a week stretch each.

[KG4CGC]

I have been called racial slurs in New York too <snip> and I think that enduring a little racism isn't bad if it means I'll live a more comfortable life and not drain away my retirement funds down the tax hole.

That is the most fucked up thing I have ever seen you write on this board. Seriously. That is fucked up.
I'd like to think that you are just trolling but now I have to rethink your position.
No person in the United States should EVER have to endure any kind of racism whatsoever.

[KC2UGV]

That is the most fucked up thing I have ever seen you write on this board. Seriously. That is fucked up.
I'd like to think that you are just trolling but now I have to rethink your position.
No person in the United States should EVER have to endure any kind of racism whatsoever.

Just put it into perspective: He only cares about HIM, and nothing else. Maybe his family, but that's to be seen, since he cares more about money than his family being subjected to "a little racism".

[N2RJ]

I've spent a lot of time in Texas; DFW isn't very much like the rest of the state. Get out of the big city and into the countryside and see if you still hold the place in as high esteem.

Well, I don't live in every square inch of New Jersey either, now do I? I doubt I'd be comfortable in the pine barrens, for example.

[N2RJ]

That is the most fucked up thing I have ever seen you write on this board. Seriously. That is fucked up.
I'd like to think that you are just trolling but now I have to rethink your position.
No person in the United States should EVER have to endure any kind of racism whatsoever.

In a perfect world there is no racism. But reality is that some people are racist.

So what do you do? Do you just stay out of their way and let them have their little racist utopia, or do you ignore them, go wherever you please (legally) and carry on with life, enjoy your life, and make them more pissed off?

Let me ask you, why do you continue to live in SC when you've been called a N-word? Won't you feel more at home in somewhere more tolerant like New York City?

[KG4CGC]

Racists aren't tough. They're scared. Ignoring them emboldens them. Raising their ire gathers the posse together. You talk to them and engage them in thinking. There is more that I do but I'm not giving that away.

I live here because I live here. I don't run away from assholes.

This country has fought for Civil Rights and Equality. Just because people are racist should not diminish that. I'm not going to tolerate it because I know it starts out from ignorance of others, taught by others. Like the baby singing about homos in church. Racism is also political because it is a wedge tool. Simply accepting racism is tacit approval. Going beyond that and accepting those into your party who promote it is a surefire path to self detonation of that party.

If you're tolerating it, you're moving backwards and things will stay the same and even get worse.

[N2RJ]

Racists aren't tough. They're scared. Ignoring them emboldens them. Raising their ire gathers the posse together. You talk to them and engage them in thinking. There is more that I do but I'm not giving that away.

I live here because I live here. I don't run away from assholes.

This country has fought for Civil Rights and Equality. Just because people are racist should not diminish that. I'm not going to tolerate it because I know it starts out from ignorance of others, taught by others. Like the baby singing about homos in church. Racism is also political because it is a wedge tool. Simply accepting racism is tacit approval. Going beyond that and accepting those into your party who promote it is a surefire path to self detonation of that party.

If you're tolerating it, you're moving backwards and things will stay the same and even get worse.


Charles, you and I agree a lot in principle here, except that I don't really want to fight with people. I just want to live my life, which I do.

Where I live has a reputation of being more like where you live but after talking to people and they get to know you, they are just fine with you. It helps when you are active in the community too.

[N7YA]

You just want to live it in a higher class neighborhood, i get it.

[KB3LAZ]

You just want to live it in a higher class neighborhood, i get it.

I want to live in a neighborhood of only me and a lot of trees. Maybe a nice inlet to fish in. =)

[X-Rated]

I want to live in a neighborhood of only me and a lot of trees. Maybe a nice inlet to fish in. =)

Not me. I want a neighborhood with lotsa folks from south of the border.

[N2RJ]

You just want to live it in a higher class neighborhood, i get it.

No way, that would mean no antennas.

My dream home would be about 50 acres on high elevation, no neighbors for miles.

[N7YA]

Ok....i cant disagree with any of that.

[KC9ECI]

I'm not surprised to see WI on that list.

[n2ize]

I want to live in/near an affluent area with rich people. Oops... I already do.

[KC9ECI]

I wouldn't mind living on a small deserted tropical island with an unlimited supply of rum, a good solar array, a nice antenna farm, a couple rigs with tubes and a crop of bare breasted female drink servers.

Hey, it's my dream, I'll make it as big as I like.

[N2RJ]

I would like to retire back to the Caribbean. The question is where. But I would like a nice location for DX/contesting. Only problem is that crime is going up in many Caribbean nations. Security is a real concern now. Didn't use to be that way.

[n2ize]

I have been called racial slurs in New York too. I had a guy spit on my car and tell me that he doesn't like fucking rag heads. Racism is everywhere.

What you are saying is that the South is bad because there are racist people who live there. You're saying that the GOP is bad because a few people said racist things. The NE doesn't seem all that better either, and I think that enduring a little racism isn't bad if it means I'll live a more comfortable life and not drain away my retirement funds down the tax hole.

The problem is that you do find more blatant racism in certain parts of the south and yes the GOP is bad. The problem with the GOP is that it supports a repressive style of governance and economics that is injurious to the needs of the workers and the poor.The democrap party isn;t much better either. Another problem is the lack of intellectualism that is prevalent among the GOP and the various supportive factions such as the "tea party". If you look carefully you find most of the true intellectuals tend to be lefties. They tend to favor things like socialism, Marxism, pacifism and anarchy,. They understand how the unfettered corporatism/capitalism and the wars fought in the name of the rich man has led to the demise and exploitation of the poor, the needy, and the workers and how it has led them into a state of repression. It has created the state of economic inequality that we see all around us and the growing disparity that is so blatant.

I remember reading about the case of Sacco and Vanzetti. 2 good men murdered by the state for a crime they didn't commit. Sacco and Vanzetti were European anarchists who were trying to organize and fight for the rights of repressed immigrant workers in the USA. One of the statements made by either Sacco or Vanzetti (I forget which one) was "I will not fight in the rich mans war". You tell me why they were railroaded through court and executed. Do you really think the capitalist aristocracy wanted them to stay alive ?

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Red_Wine.htm

[NA4BH]

The problem is that you do find more blatant racism in certain parts of the south


You might should look in your own backyard before you cast such a broad net. Just sayin'

[KG4CGC]

The whole mentality that is commonly associated with the South has spread. I have to hold Radical Republicans responsible for embracing such groups and giving them legitimacy by mainstreaming them.

[n2ize]

You might should look in your own backyard before you cast such a broad net. Just sayin'

What you say is quite true. You will find elements of racism everywhere you go. America is a very divided country. We separate our selves economically, socially, racially, religiously, and now even politically. Segregation was for quite some time openly practiced in the south and, in my visits to the south I have seen elements of racism that are a throwback to that past. Note I didn't say everyone or everyplace in the south displays this. But I did see a "brand" of racism that I generally don't see here in the north. of course the north has it's own "brand" of racism, neither of which is any better or worst than the other.

[NA4BH]

That's the part I like. Those that don't live in the South are so quick to point out how "bad" it is down here and where they live nothing of the sort occurs. They seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that it occurs in all 50 states and in their own towns/neighborhoods. With equal impact. And they fail to see the reverse racism that occurs. But what the hey, believe what you must.

[NA4BH]

What you say is quite true. You will find elements of racism everywhere you go. America is a very divided country. We separate our selves economically, socially, racially, religiously, and now even politically. Segregation was for quite some time openly practiced in the south and, in my visits to the south I have seen elements of racism that are a throwback to that past. Note I didn't say everyone or everyplace in the south displays this. But I did see a "brand" of racism that I generally don't see here in the north. of course the north has it's own "brand" of racism, neither of which is any better or worst than the other.

No, you did single out the South. I'm glad you live in an area where nothing bad happens. What do they call the place? XANADU?

[NQ6U]

The South has no monopoly on racism. Even "liberal" California has it's own history of overt racism. For example there's a town here in San Diego County, Santee named (I believe) after a town in South Carolina. It was a "Sundowner" town for many years (that is, if you were a person of color, you better be out of town by sundown) and even today many locals still refer to it as "Klantee."

It's not the only place I know of in this state with a similar history either.

EDIT: Hell, I almost forgot:this very town, Lemon Grove, was the site of the first school desegregation court case (http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/86spring/lemongrove.htm) in the country.

[KB3LAZ]

Racism is alive and well in PA as well.

[n2ize]

NO ONE can complain about the SoCal Weather, and that is what OLD FOLKS are most sensitive to. (I know I sure am!)
us CODGERS can't even COMPREHEND having to SHOVEL SNOW day after day, October to May. SNOW SUCKS (unless U are a Skiier) NO SNOW HERE in San Diego, except up in the mountains on rare occasions. Us old foks like to be very comfortable, in our Rest Homes. Easy to walk with our Walkers here in San Diego. We have our Oxegyn bottles and DEPENDS. Our Hospital gowns and Blue Hair. Our Scooters and our GREAT GRANDCHILDREN. Nope, I just couldn't FATHOM living anywhere but San Diego. Hawaii might not be too bad, but they have big SPIDERS there.

Much too mild for me. I HATE nice weather. Couldn't stand to live in a place that has no winter season. When I retire I'm going to Alaska or the Yukon. I don't ever plan to fully retire either. Gonna keep working as long as I can help it.

[n2ize]

No, you did single out the South. I'm glad you live in an area where nothing bad happens. What do they call the place? XANADU?

And to an extent I am going to stick to my guns. The south carried a legacy for some of the worst and most blatant racism in America. It has toned down over the decades and is nothing like it was so, I will give credit where its due. But in my travels down there I heard some pretty nasty racist attitudes that reflect the legacy of the past. . And it was assumed that because I am white I would share those attitudes. Nothing like anything I have ever heard up this way, and we do have some pretty arrogant racists here too, I will definitly give you that. I will also say I was impressed with the south in the sense that they have done a lot to dispel that legacy. And no, things are not perfect here either. I too have been the victim of discrimination right near my own home town. There is one rather affluent community within short distance from my home in which I was discriminated against because I wasn't rich enough for them. I was not of their social-economic caliber. I was watched, tracked, and it was made clear that I am not welcome there, even to just pass through.I guess you can;t call that racism, its more like "classism" or "bank accountism" but it stings just as hard when you are treated as an inferior. Of course they never snub their nose at my money the few times I;ve done business there.

Let me conclude with the words of Samuel Johnson, "The future is purchased by the present." but let me add the saying "time will heal all wounds". The south may still carrty some of its past legacy but they probable have done more to change it and move away from it than we have up here. So, what is our excuse ?

[N7YA]

The south was certainly very visible in its racism, and its still very strong there from both black and white people. Probably wont change. But i have to think that there are many in the south who, just like during the civil war, are completely against racism of any kind and are tired of the stereotyping that is constantly thrown on them. It would be wrong to label an entire region of our nation as racist.

At the same time, it would be a mistake to think that the entire north was NOT racist. Many of the Union soldiers were just as racist as they guys they were facing across the field, even Lincoln himself was an insecure racist. Peruse through some of his campaign speeches...

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

by:

Abraham Lincoln
(1809-1865) 16th US President
Source:

Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858




Its best we step back from blanketing the south as entirely racist and the north, where im from, as non-racist. Assholes are everywhere and come from everywhere. Even Abe....asshole.

[KK4AMI]

The south was certainly very visible in its racism, and its still very strong there from both black and white people. Probably wont change. But i have to think that there are many in the south who, just like during the civil war, are completely against racism of any kind and are tired of the stereotyping that is constantly thrown on them. It would be wrong to label an entire region of our nation as racist.

At the same time, it would be a mistake to think that the entire north was NOT racist. Many of the Union soldiers were just as racist as they guys they were facing across the field, even Lincoln himself was an insecure racist. Peruse through some of his campaign speeches...

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

by:

Abraham Lincoln
(1809-1865) 16th US President
Source:

Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858




Its best we step back from blanketing the south as entirely racist and the north, where im from, as non-racist. Assholes are everywhere and come from everywhere. Even Abe....asshole.

Amen Brother,
Most of the south desegregated in the 60s and 70s. Some northern cities resisted desegregation until the late 80s. For example, lets pick a random city like, oh lets say Yonkers.

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/2459/yonkers-race-trap

[KC2UGV]

That's the part I like. Those that don't live in the South are so quick to point out how "bad" it is down here and where they live nothing of the sort occurs. They seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that it occurs in all 50 states and in their own towns/neighborhoods. With equal impact. And they fail to see the reverse racism that occurs. But what the hey, believe what you must.

I lived in Texas for 6 years. In Central Texas (Excluding Austin), racism is both rampant, and accepted openly. West Texas, only drove through and visited some of the sites, but from what I saw: Same thing. Northern Texas, same. Border towns? I can not count how many times "Wetback" and "Nigger" were tossed about in conversation without batting an eyelash.

[n2ize]

Amen Brother,
Most of the south desegregated in the 60s and 70s. Some northern cities resisted desegregation until the late 80s. For example, lets pick a random city like, oh lets say Yonkers.

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/2459/yonkers-race-trap
The case of Yonkers "desegregation" is one I remember well.. I lived through it and it involved the area I live in, among others... First and foremost there is a big difference between unintentional segregation and deliberate racism and segregation. Yonkers never had the kind of racism and segregation of the old south. Black people were never told they cannot live in certain parts of Yonkers, they were never told they have to sit in the back of a bus or use the "colored only water fountain". In the case of Yonkers segregation was incidental to the overall economic makeup of the area. Or, said differently, if there was any segregation in Yonkers it was primarily due to economics as opposed to racial. Yonkers has a huge urban downtown area which is very racially mixed and has been for many many decades. In the very early days of the 20th century the downtown area was home to many relatively poor European immigrants who worked in the carpet mills and some of the other industries and they mostly lived in the numerous apartment buildings in the area. Decades later many of the white Europeans families left the downtown section, as their kids went to college and got higher paying jobs and moved to more affluent areas. At the same time large numbers of Black people, Hispanic and other ethnic minorities moved in and even a percentage of non-affluent whites remained or moved there as it was affordable to those without a large income.. The thing about Yonkers is, once you traverse northward beyond the downtown area the entire landscape abruptly and dramatically changes from urban to suburban. From concrete and apartment buildings to miles and miles of suburban tree lines streets and private homes. When you get to a fairly affluent area, such as the area where I currently live (and which also borders on one of the most affluent towns in the northeast) you find lots of expensive private suburban homes. There are a fair share of apartments in spots that are zoned for it but most of the apartments in the affluent areas are also quite expensive. The makeup of the area was, and still is almost all white people, although we always had a few ethnic minority families living in the area and, nobody was ever excluded on the basis of race or nationality. It was more a matter of economics. If you had enough money to buy a home or rent an apartment you could live here regardless of race, religion, etc. Nobody was turned away because of skin color. Unfortunately many ethnic minorities simply did not have the income to buy up the majority or even a fraction private homes in the area and, many others who could have may have felt they would feel out of place in what amounted to an all white community. Of course there were also exceptions. There were a few Black families living here who owned homes and they were always welcome and well received and none of the white people or white kids in the area ever showed any scorn, animosity or racism towards them whatsoever. Among children and adults they were welcome and treated just like anyone else. There was no deliberate racial exclusion.

When the NAACP demanded that my area (and others like it) be desegregated (the so called 1980's desegregation ruling you referred to) what they called for is that we place units of low income "affordable" housing so that families from downtown Yonkers may move into the area. Many of the Blacks folks from downtown Yonkers didn't go for the idea either. Instead they called for the city to spend some money and fix up the neighborhoods they were already living in and calling home as opposed to building a few units of housing in the "rich section" and relocating only a few families there. The other problem was that since this area is all private residential homes and expensive apartments there were few places to install low income housing units. They ended up taking the football field at a nearby Junior High School digging it up and building a few units of housing there. It is within walking distance of my home and is a nice community and is kept up quite nicely. There are also a large number of affordable garden apartment housing units nearby that have been ethnically diverse for quite a number of decades and long before there were any calls for desegregation. They also implemented a school busing program so nowadays the public schools are more racially mixed.

So now we are desegregated but, we were never really segregated to begin with because nobody was ever really excluded because of race, creed or nationality. If you could afford a home you could buy it and live here regardless of race. There were no blatant segregation laws here as there were in the old south. Nobody here resisted desegregation (except for a handful of uneducated white rabble with big mouths ). The area was always racially mixed, I went to school with and hung out with plenty of Black, Hispanic and Asian kids and I never heard any white kids or adults call them by the N word or use any racially motivated terms in association with them or their families who bought homes here.. If anything they were welcomed and treated just like anyone else. The only issue at stake was the lack of low income housing in some of the more affluent suburban areas which has since been fixed. The type of blatant racism of the old south was unheard of here. If there was any segregation here it was a matter of economics and not racial prejudice.

Furthermore with respect to the South I respect the fact that they have moved far away from the racial discrimination of the past. I also recognize that racism is universal and yes, there was and is still plenty of it up here in the north.