Where did the good stereo equipment go?

[N1LAF]

My stereo equipment is old. Over the past 10 years, I have been having contact problem with my stereo amplifier. So I went to Best Buy to get something reasonable, or to hold me over before I get this straightened out. I bought an inexpensive receiver, 100W per channel thing. What a piece of crap. Volume through my speakers at normal listening results in "Protect". Going back for refund today.

I have an old, 1978 vintage Realistic SA-2001, great sound, load enough for me. The bass rocks, has a control additional to the standard bass control called "Perfect Level", which really gives the low end some oomph. I would have to jiggle the selector switches (Input select, tape monitor) to get it to sound right, to the point it no longer works that way. When I was looking at these receivers, I would ask the sales people (they are like flies in the store) if the unit has "Tape Monitor" capability, and get the "I don't know what he is talking about" stare.

I have had it. If I cannot find suitable stereo equipment, then I will stick to the old stuff. The old timers will know exactly what I am talking about...

"Protect" my ass...

I think the art of good stereo equipment is long gone.

[NQ6U]

It's still available but:


You need to know what to look for, and
You're not going find it locally. Try online instead.


Denon makes good stuff, but it ain't cheap. Yamaha, too. Do your research at a good audio site, then search accordingly.

[ki4itv]

I like my Heavy Metal played through heavy metal.:snicker:


...as an aside.
Just listened to a new LP, yes vinyl. I had forgotten how nice a format vinyl is...you can hear the air in the room.
You just don't get that anymore with all these digital compression schemes. Real eye opener for me.

[N1LAF]

I like my Heavy Metal played through heavy metal.:snicker:


...as an aside.
Just listened to a new LP, yes vinyl. I had forgotten how nice a format vinyl is...you can hear the air in the room.
You just don't get that anymore with all these digital compression schemes. Real eye opener for me.

I picked up a Stanton T62 this winter.

[NQ6U]

Vinyl is nice for the first ten playings or so, then it begins to degrade. Although I still have hundreds of LPs and a decent turntable, I've disliked the format since before there was an alternative and happily embraced CDs when they came out. Of course, CD audio is uncompressed. If you're talking about MP3 and other digital formats that use a lossy compression scheme, it's a whole other ball game.

[N1LAF]

Vinyl is nice for the first ten playings or so, then it begins to degrade. Although I still have hundreds of LPs and a decent turntable, I've disliked the format since before there was an alternative and happily embraced CDs when they came out. Of course, CD audio is uncompressed. If you're talking about MP3 and other digital formats that use a lossy compression scheme, it's a whole other ball game.

CD, while uncompressed, is digitized. The process of conversion back to analog is not the same as analog sources, so there is a trade off, and what you said about the number of plays (limit) is the major trade-off.

[KG4CGC]

Stay out of Best Buy. All the stuff there is made in the same factory in China and simply badged based on style, price point etc. That includes the Harmon-Kardon and Yamaha stuff. Their names are licensed out for certain products. The real H-K and Yamaha are made elsewhere and worth the extra money.

All the vintage stuff was getting shipped off to Japan in the 80s and early 90s. Deep pocket big wigs were buying it up to the point of hiring US agents to scour the CONUS and get anything they could find from the 50s 60s and toob rigs from the early 70s. I know of one guy (not personally) who got into the act of export agent just for this niche. I used to see his ads everywhere.

These days if you're going to get what you used to get from the 70s and 80s, quality-wise, you'll need to find a high end stereo store or dredge ebay and take your chances there. At least stuff from that era is easy to work on. That's how I got a Yamaha CT-410II Tuner for 12 $$$ and a Kenwood KA-7100 for less than 40 $$$. I've seen those go for as much as $130 in today's market but in early 00s they commanded a top shelf price.

Surely there's a local dealer near you that carries Bang & Olufson products.

[KG4CGC]

CD, while uncompressed, is digitized. The process of conversion back to analog is not the same as analog sources, so there is a trade off, and what you said about the number of plays (limit) is the major trade-off.

I want you to visualize a board on a flight of stairs.

[N1LAF]

I want you to visualize a board on a flight of stairs.

Exactly!

There is also anti-alias concerns too!

[KG4CGC]

The board shows the where the each stair makes contact. The triangular space between each step is the sound that the digital format is missing.
Ones and Zeros are, one and zeros.

[K7SGJ]

Stay out of Best Buy. All the stuff there is made in the same factory in China and simply badged based on style, price point etc. That includes the Harmon-Kardon and Yamaha stuff. Their names are licensed out for certain products. The real H-K and Yamaha are made elsewhere and worth the extra money.

All the vintage stuff was getting shipped off to Japan in the 80s and early 90s. Deep pocket big wigs were buying it up to the point of hiring US agents to scour the CONUS and get anything they could find from the 50s 60s and tube rigs from the early 70s. I know of one guy (not personally) who got into the act of export agent just for this niche. I used to see his ads everywhere.

These days if you're going to get what you used to get from the 70s and 80s, quality-wise, you'll need to find a high end stereo store or dredge ebay and take your chances there. At least stuff from that era is easy to work on. That's how I got a Yamaha CT-410II Tuner for 12 $$$ and a Kenwood KA-7100 for less than 40 $$$. I've seen those go for as much as $130 in today's market but in early 00s they commanded a top shelf price.

Surely there's a local dealer near you that carries Bang & Olufsen products.

B&O? I use to work on them. The parts use to cost more than other complete stereo systems. (kind of an exaggeration, but not too far off) It's amazing what a piece of shit folks thought of stuff like Fisher and some of the other low end manufacturers back in the day. But by today's standards, if you like tube stuff, it really wasn't so bad. I remember when they came out with the first quadraphonic system. Their engineering was a very interesting concept. As I recall, a few radio stations, mostly ratchet rock, tried it, but it just didn't fly. Probably the predecessor to surround sound. Being in the service industry at the time was the place to really get a first hand look at all the new technology. Although my hearing is pretty well destroyed now, I will always be convinced that solid state can never touch the warmth of the sound you get with tubes. FET technology came close at one time. Maybe it's the voltage amplification vs current amplification, I don't know. It really doesn't matter for me anymore because it's all just a memory anyway.

[NQ6U]

But if the number of stair steps are twice the number your eyes can see, it's gonna look like a smooth slope to you.

[KG4CGC]

But if the number of stair steps are twice the number your eyes can see, it's gonna look like a smooth slope to you.

Here we run into the issue of processor lag time and the peaks end up looking like a saw-tooth wave to the D-A converters.

[NQ6U]

Here we run into the issue of processor lag time and the peaks end up looking like a saw-tooth wave to the D-A converters.

That's addressable with good hardware. No argument that cheap players and D to A converters degrade the sound but it doesn't have to be that way.

[WØTKX]

I got one of these as a Christmas Present to Me. :dance:

I'm pretty impressed, for an ex-AudioPhoole. About $200.00.

SHERWOOD RD-7405HDR (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0038CC0T6/ref=asc_df_B0038CC0T62031715?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0038CC0T6&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1195970183613382369&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=)

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/2/Sherwood_RD-7405HDR.jpg



The HD radio works very well, and the stereo AM is better than you'd think. Stereo only, I have not used the Surround Sound.

However, the amp is not quite as crisp and clean as my "Class-T" amplifiers. If all you want is a nice clean stereo amplifier and you are using fairly efficient speakers. For the money... Class-T amps will blow your mind.

The cheap do not have a lot of power, but are very clean with music that has quick large transients. Wow.

Lepai Tripath Class-T Hi-Fi Audio Mini Amplifier with Power Supply (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049P6OTI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00)


Yes, that's right. It's less than $25.00, and they sound that good. A little cheesy on the case and such.

I have two other Class-T amps from Sonic Impact. One has a battery compartment, for camping and such. All were under $50.00.

[N1LAF]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/SA-2001.jpg

Has more knobs...

[KG4CGC]

I know we all used to talk smack about RS but they made some good stuff back in the day.

[N1LAF]

I have the matching TM-1001 tuner, and when I was in the Navy, I added an SCA circuit to it, since I never use FM-mono, FM mono was actually SCA output.

[KG4NEL]

I think the art of good stereo equipment is long gone.

Not at all. It's just moved out of the mainstream market because there's no demand for it there any more. But there's plenty of good 2-channel equipment being made.

http://www.musicdirect.com/

For used stuff: http://www.audiogon.com

If you're into tubes, that's also come back in a big way :)

[PA5COR]

Last stuff i had was the Yamaha amp, 2 x 20 watts class A gliding in AB to 105 watts continiuos sinus, 00.5 % distortion cost me a bundle too... 25 years back..
Dual pick up with elliptical needle secial Shure element still in the attick somewhere..
Sony cassette deck, top of the line also in the attick.
Realistic 2 x 10 band equaliser.
Some reworked Dantax ( danish) speakers large but very good sound also in the attick.
Sony top line FM/AM tuner sold that one
Philips CD player and a Pioneer one.

After buying the Pioneer stuff i put it in the attick and put on that place the ham radio gear.
Using the FT 100 radio as Fm radio connected to a large speaker amp, and for 2/70.

Only listen to music in the van 4 x 50 watt cd/radio player in there with quite large and good speakers.
Build some of the old tube amps myself as kid, EL 86, EL 34 type tubes ECC 83/ ECC 85 pre amp tubes european stuff that was very common then.

[KG4NEL]

I know we all used to talk smack about RS but they made some good stuff back in the day.

Minimus speakers practically have a cult following 8)

[NQ6U]

I know we all used to talk smack about RS but they made some good stuff back in the day.

True, and that's why we talk smack about Radio Schlock now—we're mourning what they used to be.

[KG4CGC]

Ah, I had the Minimus and Mach series for years!

[W1GUH]

Paul, don't overlook pro studio power amps for your home stereo. They're very well built, sound great, and don't have all the useless fancy crap that consumer/high-end stereo stuff has, so the prices are very reasonable.

There are lot of places to look, but my faves are Guitar Center (http://www.guitarcenter.com/?source=4WWRWXGT&ktid=45-1611331) and, even now, Sam Ashe. There's also Musician's Friend and others to check out. The prices tend to be very close to each othere, so which "place" becomes "who has what I'm looking for."

You mentioned you've got a tuner, so you're set radio-wise. If you do vinyl, a TT plus a good phono preamp (about which I've evangelized a few time) will do great. For switching inputs, I use a RS tape deck switch box....dunno what's out there currently.

Some power amps have input attenuators that you can use for a "volume control". OK...that's a pain, ya can't just press the button on a remote, but, IMHO...that's a minor disadvantage, especially compared to the advantages. I have found a remote control "passive attenuator" for hi-end stuff....only cost $400! Forget about it!

Good luck! I spent, literally years, to find a power amp til I finally thought about pro studio amps. You can also score a bargain with demo and used stuff, both of which come with a warrantee. Both Guitar Center and Sam Ashe deal in used/demo stuff.

[KG4NEL]

Agreed, Crown and QSC pro amps are an awesome choice, although sometimes you need to fiddle with fan circuits to get the noise down to an acceptable level.

[KG4CGC]

Well, you could find that same stuff on Amazon. Check pricing frequently as it changes. Stay away from most of the Pyle stuff. Read the reviews. Most people end up returning the Pyle stuff they buy from Amazon. Usually the specs are too good to be true along with the prices.

[n2ize]

That's addressable with good hardware. No argument that cheap players and D to A converters degrade the sound but it doesn't have to be that way.

Very true. It gets to a point where as far as the human mind is concerned the 1-0's on-off's are a smooth curve.

[n2ize]

My stereo equipment is old. Over the past 10 years, I have been having contact problem with my stereo amplifier. So I went to Best Buy to get something reasonable, or to hold me over before I get this straightened out. I bought an inexpensive receiver, 100W per channel thing. What a piece of crap. Volume through my speakers at normal listening results in "Protect". Going back for refund today.




Yeah, but "PROTECT" is a feature designed to enhance your listening experience. Just like the bugs in Microsoft software are not bugs, they are "features".

[kf0rt]

I think it's gotten better. 'Bout 4-5 years ago, I went through the whole home theater thing. Audio first. Was using a 1988 "rack" Pioneer system at the time. This wasn't Pioneer's finest moment, but it worked. Did a lot of research online and wanted to get into surround sound. Ended up with a Yamaha RX-1800 7.1 A/V receiver. Seven channels at 110 watts apiece (?) plus a subwoofer. For speakers, I bought JBL. Studio series, which was actually pretty low-end (Best Buy even sold them). Not close to high end, but well built and sound good.

So, got an AF receiver that'll do over 900 watts into speakers. Bass requires a subwoofer. Little JBL SUB-12 is 250 watts, all below about 120 Hz.

Haven't been able to crank this bastid up in eons. It's really *amazing*. All digital.

[KG4CGC]

Very true. It gets to a point where as far as the human mind is concerned the 1-0's on-off's are a smooth curve.

Not if you're a musician.

[kb2crk]

I have to find the time to rebuild my Bose 501s

[kf0rt]

I have to find the time to rebuild my Bose 501s

In audio circles, BOSE stands for Buy Other Sound Equipment.

I am soooo glad I'm half deaf. :rofl:

[kb2crk]

In audio circles, BOSE stands for Buy Other Sound Equipment.

I am soooo glad I'm half deaf. :rofl:

Considering the speakers are 35 years old I think they did alright by me. My father still uses the Bose 901s he got back in 74. they still sound pretty damn good too.....
Of course over time some things have changed...lol

[kf0rt]

Considering the speakers are 35 years old I think they did alright by me. My father still uses the Bose 901s he got back in 74. they still sound pretty damn good too.....
Of course over time some things have changed...lol


All a matter of what you like. I think the big complaint about Bose is that it's overpriced. I remember the 901's from the 70's and how they were the be-all and end-all. Not many technical defenders today, but they sound the same. I've got a 2.1 Acoustimass system around here somewhere, and honestly think my Logitech computer speakers sound about the same. Of course, these are "good" Logitech speakers. ($40 refirb from eBay).

I'm still about half deaf, though.

[NQ6U]

Not if you're a musician.

I dunno. Maybe. I can't find it on the Web but back in the 1990s I read about a double-blind study that was done testing a group of so-called "Golden Ear" types trying to pick out from which medium music was being reproduced, LP or CD. They were only able to determine which was which at about the same rate that random chance would allow.

My opinion? Most of us grew up listening to analog recordings and became accustomed to they way they sound. Then CDs came along and, suddenly, a lot of the recording artifacts that colored the music in the way were were used to were gone and it didn't sound right.

[KG4CGC]

Maybe it's just folklore but every musician I've ever been friends with all say the same thing.

[kf0rt]

My opinion? Most of us grew up listening to analog recordings and became accustomed to they way they sound. Then CDs came along and, suddenly, a lot of the recording artifacts that colored the music in the way were were used too were gone and it didn't sound right.

Swear to all that's holy, I cannot tell the difference.

Signed,

Cheap musical drunk

[kb2crk]

All a matter of what you like. I think the big complaint about Bose is that it's overpriced. I remember the 901's from the 70's and how they were the be-all and end-all. Not many technical defenders today, but they sound the same. I've got a 2.1 Acoustimass system around here somewhere, and honestly think my Logitech computer speakers sound about the same. Of course, these are "good" Logitech speakers. ($40 refirb from eBay).

I'm still about half deaf, though.


No arguing the overpriced deal.
My father owned part of a stereo store in the late sixties and early seventies and built his system by getting everything at cost. Miracord turntable, Tandburg cassette deck, Sony reel to reel, Kenwood sonic quadrixer (feeding the 4 bose 901s), Pioneer Tuner and Amp. and a Kenwood scope. I got my 501s from Freecycle about 6 years ago and they sounded great until I turned the amp a hair to high...lol

[NQ6U]

It's the same sort of thing as tube amps vs transistorized amps. I'll admit that I prefer the sound of my tube receivers over my IC-736 even though the Icom is probably giving me a more accurate sound reproduction—at least, as long as I'm not using the beyond inadequate 2.5" internal speaker. I just I like the "warmth" of tube amp sound.

[K7SGJ]

True, and that's why we talk smack about Radio Schlock now—we're mourning what they used to be.


120 watts of audio just doesn't sound very good through a cell phone, huh?

[NQ6U]

120 watts of audio just doesn't sound very good through a cell phone, huh?

"You've got questions? We've got cell phones!"

[n2ize]

I dunno. Maybe. I can't find it on the Web but back in the 1990s I read about a double-blind study that was done testing a group of so-called "Golden Ear" types trying to pick out from which medium music was being reproduced, LP or CD. They were only able to determine which was which at about the same rate that random chance would allow.


My opinion? Most of us grew up listening to analog recordings and became accustomed to they way they sound. Then CDs came along and, suddenly, a lot of the recording artifacts that colored the music in the way were were used to were gone and it didn't sound right.

A similar study was done in which several "golden ear" musicians were blindfolded and several different violins were played live. One was an authentic Stradivarius the others were more modern, but extremely fine quality violins. They were asked to pick out which one was the Strad. The results turned out no better that random chance would allow. Yes there was a subtle difference between the Strad and the others. But it was not that the Strad was better or worst than the others. Just different. In any event the key part was that the selection was no better than random.