View Full Version : K9STH Shot Down by the FCC (again) Re: ID
As per today's FCC Digest, Glen "the Zookster" K9STH's request for modifying Part 97 vis a vis Station ID times has been shot down.
Again.
http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...A-12-795A1.pdf (http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0521/DA-12-795A1.pdf)
Ah, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think they're looking too kindly on his constantly requesting this.
Your latest petition sets forth no new facts or changed circumstances warranting further consideration of the proposal. The current petition, therefore, is repetitive.
KG4CGC
05-21-2012, 11:41 AM
Pissed off in capital letters at that.
K7SGJ
05-21-2012, 11:51 AM
I have no idea how much of the taxpayers $$ has been spent on these processing proposals, but I'd bet it's enough to bust at least one or two .313ers.
As per today's FCC Digest, Glen "the Zookster" K9STH's request for modifying Part 97 vis a vis Station ID times has been shot down.
Again.
http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...A-12-795A1.pdf (http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0521/DA-12-795A1.pdf)
Ah, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think they're looking too kindly on his constantly requesting this.
What's the zookster's deal? This doesn't seem to be a big thing.
KG4CGC
05-21-2012, 11:53 AM
What's the zookster's deal? This doesn't seem to be a big thing.
Legacy?
FCC document translated into common man language:
What part of "no" don't you fucking understand? :roll:
What's the zookster's deal? This doesn't seem to be a big thing.It's been so long, I don't remember the details. I think he wanted ID's more often than once every 10 minutes, and/or mandated ID'ing at both the beginning & end of a transmission. I think. I'd have to go back and look up his kvetching on the issue, circa 6 - 7 years ago, and frankly, I don't care enough to bother.
FCC document translated into common man language:
What part of "no" don't you fucking understand? :roll:Ah, I see you speak Bureaucracese (aka Potomoc Two-Step Double-Speak) as a second language.
What's the zookster's deal? This doesn't seem to be a big thing.
He wants people to do ham radio HIS WAY.
I think he's kinda anti-contesting too but in a passive aggressive way.
The sad thing is that I liked the idea of his 4 metre petition. However I think they'll dismiss it too.
KC9ECI
05-21-2012, 03:46 PM
Some people are slow learners.
KG4CGC
05-21-2012, 03:50 PM
There's still an active analog TV broadcaster, channel 2 or 3 in Key West. I monitored the audio at about 78.5 mhz. I should have brought my handheld TV but since the changeover, it has seen no usage.
kf0rt
05-21-2012, 04:18 PM
Some people are slow learners.
He's just trying to turn the clock back to the good ol' days when this was the law.
Get off his lawn, dammit!
(I tease... Glen was one of the good guys as I recall.)
kb2vxa
05-21-2012, 04:38 PM
Vaat do you mean identeefy transmeessions?
KC9ECI
05-21-2012, 07:24 PM
He's just trying to turn the clock back to the good ol' days when this was the law.
Get off his lawn, dammit!
(I tease... Glen was one of the good guys as I recall.)
I have no issue with Glen. We've traded emails over the years over this and that. Even worked him on 10M one day. He's just a slow learner. I used to work with a carpenter with very few fingers on one hand. He was a slow learner also.
I have no issue with Glen. We've traded emails over the years over this and that. Even worked him on 10M one day. He's just a slow learner. I used to work with a carpenter with very few fingers on one hand. He was a slow learner also.
I'm glad your experience with the zookster was positive.
I found him to an extremely rigid pompous ass about just about everything. He had this really annoying habit of pulling that false equivalency number back in the PJ days whenever he got cornered on some political issue. Just because he was "super administrator" over there didn't make him right about every thing in the world. I thought the guy was an ass, but that's just my opinion.
KG4CGC
05-21-2012, 11:38 PM
I like Glen. I enjoyed reading about his childhood and the Civil War.
kf0rt
05-22-2012, 06:34 AM
I like Glen. I enjoyed reading about his childhood and the Civil War.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Did his employer supply power to the Confederacy or to the Union?
KG4CGC
05-22-2012, 06:39 AM
Did his employer supply power to the Confederacy or to the Union?
Confederacy.
something something nocturnal emissions something
something something nocturnal emissions something
That's another way of describing a 'night contester'.
VE7DCW
05-22-2012, 10:58 PM
You get the impression from Glen that on the subject of Radio regulations ..... the K9STH way will always make more sense than your FCC could come up with .....without question. I guess thats what makes him determined .... oh well! :snicker:
kb2vxa
05-23-2012, 08:37 AM
There are times when I would agree with that, but not when it comes to Amateur Radio.
There's still an active analog TV broadcaster, channel 2 or 3 in Key West. I monitored the audio at about 78.5 mhz. I should have brought my handheld TV but since the changeover, it has seen no usage.
As long as channel 4 is not in use, the frequency is clear.
They could make it secondary use. We share frequencies with the military, so what's a few TV broadcasters?
If we stick to the same 4M band plan as Europe uses, we're only talking about 70.0-70.5MHz. That's not likely to put a dent in any proposed commercial rebanding.
IIRC, the former Class C CB service (what's it called now, Remote Control RS? I forget) has a small segment of 4 meters. So there's plenty of room there that could be shared.
And who besides hams wants "VHF Low" anymore anyway?
kb2vxa
05-23-2012, 03:14 PM
The 72-73MHz segment is assigned to fixed and mobile service with RC being Part 15 and 75.4-76 being the same except for RC being restricted for surface control only. Then it goes 73-74.6 for radio-astronomy, 74.6-74.8 fixed and mobile and 74.8-75.2 for aeronautical navigation. With that and TV channel 4 in mind 4M in the US doesn't look too ham friendly.
As an aside, RC being part 15 on active bands it's subject to a lot of interference, I doubt hobbyists even THINK of using those 11M channels anymore. They've gone high tech on 2.4GHz as in this quote from About dot Com.
Being used in more and more RC vehicles, this frequency eliminates problems of radio interference. Special software within the receiver and transmitter work to set the specific frequency channel within the very wide 2.4GHz range, locking out interference from other systems operating within the 2.4GHz range in your operating area. There is no need to change out crystals or select specific channels yourself. The transmitter/receiver do it for you.
http://rcvehicles.about.com/od/frequency/f/dsmtechnology.htm
And who besides hams wants "VHF Low" anymore anyway?
Nobody. BUt the FCC thinks they can cram TV broadcasters down in the VHF low ghetto and lop off the top of UHF to steal more spectrum for the phone companies.
K7SGJ
05-24-2012, 07:41 PM
Nobody. BUt the FCC thinks they can cram TV broadcasters down in the VHF low ghetto and lop off the top of UHF to steal more spectrum for the phone companies.
But....but....but.... but it's for the children.
Nobody. BUt the FCC thinks they can cram TV broadcasters down in the VHF low ghetto and lop off the top of UHF to steal more spectrum for the phone companies.Now, that's funny... weren't the VHF LO channels (2 - 6) once considered the most desireable TV spectrum, back in the analog age? And now they're the ghetto?
"Talk about your fixer-upper!" (Timmon, The Lion King)
kb2vxa
05-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Yes and no. Channel 1 was given over to hams because of all the propagation interference but the FCC apparently didn't figure on the same thing with the remaining channels. I wish they had, we just might have had a shot at 4M but I digress. Broadcasters considered them desirable because of the miles per watt rule, lower transmitter power and simpler antenna arrays. In "the analog age" few viewers had any idea UHF existed, back then as a TV man I could count the number of sets with UHF connected on one hand and have fingers left over. (Stand by for pun.) Back in the shop one day this LOL asked what the UFO on the channel selector was for, you can guess the rest. (;->)
I suppose now they're the ghetto since the FCC mandated the 8VSB standard which only makes propagation difficulties worse. Being an all or nothing modulation system, that is 100% clear reception or no reception (cliff effect) the slightest upset in the bit stream causes all sorts of problems analog (or even European CODFM) never had. Ah, just for the heck of it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NDPT0Ph5rA
Now, that's funny... weren't the VHF LO channels (2 - 6) once considered the most desireable TV spectrum, back in the analog age? And now they're the ghetto?
I suppose now they're the ghetto since the FCC mandated the 8VSB standard which only makes propagation difficulties worse. Being an all or nothing modulation system, that is 100% clear reception or no reception (cliff effect) the slightest upset in the bit stream causes all sorts of problems analog (or even European CODFM) never had. Ah, just for the heck of it...
There are several issues with 8VSB on low VHF, including noise and power levels (the FCC limits low VHFers to only 10kW EIRP, IIRC).
Doug Lung who writes the RF column for TVTechnology sums it up nicely:
Original article: http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/dtv-on-low-and-vhf-channels/183661
After reader response: http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/low-band-vhf-dtv-revisited/183659
Even on high VHF, lightning kills the reception if the signal is marginal.
n2ize
06-07-2012, 03:36 AM
There's still an active analog TV broadcaster, channel 2 or 3 in Key West. I monitored the audio at about 78.5 mhz. I should have brought my handheld TV but since the changeover, it has seen no usage.
Yeah, I have a handheld TV that no longer see's any use. Of course I could connect a converter box to it but that would kind of defeat the whole idea.
n2ize
06-07-2012, 03:53 AM
As an aside, RC being part 15 on active bands it's subject to a lot of interference, I doubt hobbyists even THINK of using those 11M channels anymore.
They are obsolete. Nobody that does any serious rc work would be caught dead using 11 m for rc. Only thing you might find on 11 m rc are some very very cheap rc toys. Last I heard of anyone using 11m for serious rc stuff was in the early 70's. And even then they were having trouble with a lot of interference.
They've gone high tech on 2.4GHz as in this quote from About dot Com.
Being used in more and more RC vehicles, this frequency eliminates problems of radio interference. Special software within the receiver and transmitter work to set the specific frequency channel within the very wide 2.4GHz range, locking out interference from other systems operating within the 2.4GHz range in your operating area. There is no need to change out crystals or select specific channels yourself. The transmitter/receiver do it for you.
http://rcvehicles.about.com/od/frequency/f/dsmtechnology.htm
Works much better too. You digitally bind your receiver to the transmitter your going to use and they communicate via spread spectrum. No need to worry about who's on the air at the same time, much less prone to interference, etc. At the same time 2.4 ghz rc is not entirely foolproof. But still much better than the old 11 m or 72-73 mhz FM.
Yeah, I have a handheld TV that no longer see's any use.
You should have bought the cable-ready version.
KB3LIX
06-08-2012, 01:26 PM
He wants people to do ham radio HIS WAY.
I think he's kinda anti-contesting too but in a passive aggressive way.
The sad thing is that I liked the idea of his 4 metre petition. However I think they'll dismiss it too.
70 mHz will be a tough sell.
There are quite a few licensees between 72.00 and 75.00 mHz. They are licensed
for command and control of various equipment.
In centries past, I had licesnses for 72.96, 75.50 & 75.96 (and several others)
for paging system control.
They were all low power operation.
70 mHz will be a tough sell.
There are quite a few licensees between 72.00 and 75.00 mHz. They are licensed
for command and control of various equipment.
In centries past, I had licesnses for 72.96, 75.50 & 75.96 (and several others)
for paging system control.
They were all low power operation.
In all the countries that have a 4m amateur radio allocation, the top of the band appears to be 70.500 MHz or lower so it should be possible to have a band here in the U.S. without causing undue interference with licensees at 72 MHz and above.
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