Guns Don't Kill ?

[n2ize]

We all heard "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Duh ?? No brainer there

By the same token...

Atomic bombs don't kill people, people kill people
Knives don't kill people, people kill people
Lances, swords, and clubs don't kill people, people kill people.

I am 100% all for 2nd amendment rights and am all for guns but, sometimes people use guns to kill people. My point, some of the cliches used by the good pro-gun folks are really lame. I think they need to come up with some better slogans.

[KC2UGV]

My view as well, by and large.

[AB5S]

I'm just slightly right of Attilla the Hun.
I have defended my family with a handgun.
I, my wife and oldest daughter would be raped and dead
if I hadn't had it or been trained and willing to use it.

However: I also think a person should be screened, trained and licensed to own a handgun.
We require that of drivers, pilots, machine operators, doctors and all manner
of people who might kill someone if they're an ass-hat.
And there are a bunch of ass-hats out there.

But there is a big problem with that:
Once such a law is in place, you Leftys will do the "camel's nose in the tent"
deal until only the local thugs have a weapon.
Better a few casualties as the price for citizen gun ownership
than many casualties among a disarmed population of sheep.
Quote for the day:
"If you go through life like a grazing antelope, a predator is going to eat you."

[KB3LAZ]

This weekend my 21 year old Cousin was intentionally killed by a guy riding a motorcycle on SR 18 in PA. No matter the choice of weapon, it is not the weapon that does the killing but rather the one wielding said weapon. If someone wants to take a life they will find a way to do so, period.

[KG4CGC]

This weekend my 21 year old Cousin was intentionally killed by a guy riding a motorcycle on SR 18 in PA. No matter the choice of weapon, it is not the weapon that does the killing but rather the one wielding said weapon. If someone wants to take a life they will find a way to do so, period.

I'm very sorry to hear about that.

[n2ize]

I'm just slightly right of Attilla the Hun.
I have defended my family with a handgun.
I, my wife and oldest daughter would be raped and dead
if I hadn't had it or been trained and willing to use it.

However: I also think a person should be screened, trained and licensed to own a handgun.
We require that of drivers, pilots, machine operators, doctors and all manner
of people who might kill someone if they're an ass-hat.
And there are a bunch of ass-hats out there.

But there is a big problem with that:
Once such a law is in place, you Leftys will do the "camel's nose in the tent"
deal until only the local thugs have a weapon.
Better a few casualties as the price for citizen gun ownership
than many casualties among a disarmed population of sheep.
Quote for the day:
"If you go through life like a grazing antelope, a predator is going to eat you."

I agree with you for the most part. However I disagree with the term "lefty's" because it only serves to divide and conquer, placing people into one of two categories when in reality people are much more complex. For example, I am considered by many to be a "liberal / lefty" yet on many issues I take on a traditionally conservative view. For example I am pro gun, and pro-death penalty, pro-atomic energy, all views for which I get sharply criticized by many of my anti-gun / anti-nuke liberal friends. Yet I know conservatives who are also anti-nukers.

Except for some people who sit at the fringes of each end of the spectrum I think we are all a balanced mix of views and there is no such thing as a "righty" or "lefty"

Far as guns go I am opposed to registration and regulations. I feel anyone should be allowed to walk into a store, buy a gun and ammo, no questions asked, and be able to load the gun, holster it, and walk out of the store, no questions, no hassles, no background checks. I am all for 100% unfettered gun ownership. And I do agree. The gun is a tool, and one of its uses is defense. If a creep comes into your home to rob you you shoot the creep. And yes, we are going to have to tolerate a number of accidental deaths. Such is the price we pay, much as we do with cars.

And yes, I agree. There are some extreme nutters in the anti-gun movement who will keep fighting against guns until they are banned entirely. These are the types which no level of regulation can satisfy. Their aim is to disarm all Americans. They are just like some of the extreme anti-smoking fringers. Bans on smoking in bars, restaurants, parks, trains, buses, beaches, etc. is not enough for them. They won't rest until it is a crime to smoke in the privacy of your own home or anywhere.

[N8YX]

I'm very sorry to hear about that.

Likewise - that truly sucks.

[NQ6U]

Once such a law is in place, you Leftys will do the "camel's nose in the tent" deal until only the local thugs have a weapon.

With one possible exception, you won't find that sort of thinking here on the Island. Most of us are gun owners. Hell, I even used to belong to the NRA until the Neil Knox faction took it over and it lurched to the crazy right.

[WØTKX]

Wow, and Travis just got to Spain for the time of his life. Sorry man. :nono:

[kf0rt]

Wow, and Travis just got to Spain for the time of his life. Sorry man. :nono:

Sucks. Sorry to hear it.

[NQ6U]

Condolences, Travis. Were you two close?

[KG4NEL]

Far as guns go I am opposed to registration and regulations. I feel anyone should be allowed to walk into a store, buy a gun and ammo, no questions asked, and be able to load the gun, holster it, and walk out of the store, no questions, no hassles, no background checks. I am all for 100% unfettered gun ownership. And I do agree. The gun is a tool, and one of its uses is defense. If a creep comes into your home to rob you you shoot the creep. And yes, we are going to have to tolerate a number of accidental deaths. Such is the price we pay, much as we do with cars.

This seems like much less of a standard than we have with cars.

[NQ6U]

This seems like much less of a standard than we have with cars.

Don't pay too much attention to John on this issue. He's well-established as the Island's resident troll.

[KG4CGC]

Don't pay too much attention to John on this issue. He's well-established as the Island's resident troll.

Actually, John buys a new gun quite frequently. New to him anyway.
John, how large has your collection grown?

[n2ize]

Actually, John buys a new gun quite frequently. New to him anyway.
John, how large has your collection grown?

Right now I have 1 gun. An old Savage/Anchutz .22 cal single shot bolt action match rifle with iron target sights. I used to have a Marlin semi automatic .22 rifle which could really do some rapid "squeeze trigger" firing but it rarely got much use and I sold it legally following all the appropriate rules for the transfer/sale of such devices. I held onto the savage because it was my pride and joy during my high school rifle team years. I was a pretty good marksman back then and I think I am still pretty darned good. These days I spend more time picking up the violin as opposed to the gun. hey ?? din;t the gangters in the roaring 20's used to carry the tommy gun in the violin case ? :)

Now, I may be a troll but I am sincere about ,my attitude towards guns. I am opposed to regulations. At the same time I am smart enough to know that my policy towards guns stands little chance of acceptance. Much as my stance on legalizing/decriminalizing marijuana/drugs stands little chance of acceptance.

[KG4CGC]

So what you're saying, percentage-wise, is that with your next purchase will grow your collection by 50%.
Those are good numbers.

[n2ize]

So what you're saying, percentage-wise, is that with your next purchase will grow your collection by 50%.
Those are good numbers.

Exactly right. However I am not looking to buy a gun right now. Maybe when i move up to rural upstate NY and I run that small grocery/deli/general store that I've been dreaming of. I can just picture it now. Along a rural road the store will have a deli (cold cuts, sandwiches, etc.) groveries and general items and a fishing, hunting, camping section.

[kf0rt]

I want a sammich. :yes:

[K7SGJ]

Sorry to hear about your cousin, Travis.

[n2ize]

I want a sammich. :yes:

Stop by my deli when I get it open. I'll give Islanders a free sandwich and beer on the house. :)

[n2ize]

So what you're saying, percentage-wise, is that with your next purchase will grow your collection by 50%.
Those are good numbers.

Oh another reason why I kept the savage match rifle is because it has a left handed stock. I fire a rifle left handed. It cost me an additional $100.00 for the left handed model.

[KG4CGC]

Stop by my deli when I get it open. I'll give Islanders a free sandwich and beer on the house. :)

But isn't that socialism?

[n2ize]

But isn't that socialism?

I'll bill you later. ;)

[KG4CGC]

I'll bill you later. ;)

I may have to default.

[W5GA]

This seems like much less of a standard than we have with cars.
First you'd have find a fundamental, individual right concerning cars.

[N7YA]

I had a whole speech thing ready to go, but i think it is just easier to pass this one on by.

Sorry about your cousin, Trav. That sucks! :(

[N2RJ]

However: I also think a person should be screened, trained and licensed to own a handgun.
We require that of drivers, pilots, machine operators, doctors and all manner
of people who might kill someone if they're an ass-hat.
And there are a bunch of ass-hats out there.


100% fine with that, but as you mentioned the whole "nose in the tent" thing.

For example, concealed carry permits aren't illegal in New Jersey. However, good luck getting one. There was a guy who was repeatedly robbed and beaten up, and kidnapped from his place of business. He was refused a concealed carry permit several times. The state said it was not necessary.

[N2RJ]

This weekend my 21 year old Cousin was intentionally killed by a guy riding a motorcycle on SR 18 in PA. No matter the choice of weapon, it is not the weapon that does the killing but rather the one wielding said weapon. If someone wants to take a life they will find a way to do so, period.

My condolences, Travis.

[N2RJ]

This seems like much less of a standard than we have with cars.

If you're comparing it with cars, you do know that most people get a license at the end of the application process... not so with gun permits in places that require them (including carry permits).

[KB3LAZ]

Thank you all and yes we were close. I meant to say last weekend not this weekend, I had not realized it was already the weekend once again. I got the bad news about 11 minutes after I landed in Madrid.

My family as well as that of her friend have both had to morn the loss of someone way to young to leave this world. Top that off with two sets of parents out living their children, something that no one should have to experience.

I dont know a lot of the details, the news reports were rather vauge. What I do know is that there was a formal investigation. It seems that the other young man that killed them by pushing them off the road then hid is bike, after defacing it, and then called a friend to pick him up. Lied to the cops when he was found and is now sitting in jail on a large list of charges.

I have come to the realization more than once that I do not understand people or their actions. Before acting they do not consider the ramifications of their actions. All of the involved parties were in their twenties and went to high school together. This action cause much grief to many people and the loss of a child to three families. The family of the assailant will also suffer in the loss of their son to the system.

Just children and their lives are either over or ruined.

I have been doing a lot of thinking and I have always know that life is unfair but this hit home rather hard. Particularly after the loss of my 5 year old little cousin last year. I see myself here starting a new life, growing in many ways, and life is good. I am just starting to get into the grove of my life. For me the begining of the rest of my life is just starting and here are three children that will never have a chance to live their life. One becuase of a judgment call and two due to the loss of their life. So many things that they will never get to see, to feel, to experience.

The hardest thing, she was there to see me off for my flight. Crying she said good-bye, I dont know if I will ever get a chance to see you again. I ofc told her not to be silly and that she would see me again in the near future. I told her that you never know what life has to offer and that she would likely be here for my wedding. (The family intends to fly a few of my close relatives to Spain for the wedding.)

It has been a week and it is as if my brain can still not process what has happend.

What is the most dangerous weapon in the world? The human mind. Everything else is merely a tool utilized to commit acts of sycophancy. I cant help but think about the situation and how selfserving it was due to lust and hatred. Talking to my family and hearing their rage, their deepest dreams of harm to the one that took their loved one and I just cant do it. No matter how much I try I can not wish him harm. Understanding and forgiveness are something that will never come from me and as much hatred as I now host, to wish harm is just not in my nature.

Which makes me wonder if I myself am human at all. It seems that everyone is so quick to act on their desires, particularly those that are dark and disturbing. Ever wonder if it is you that is broken or the rest of the world? That is the point my thoughts are at now.

I may be insane but I admit it, you all deny it, so who is the one that is sick? That is the though that I can not rid off. (Not any of you that was a projection of the general populous of the world.)

[NQ6U]

I may be insane but I admit it, you all deny it, so who is the one that is sick? That is the though that I can not rid off. (Not any of you that was a projection of the general populous of the world.)

Travis, judging by what I've seen in your writings here, you are one of the sanest people I know.

[KB3LAZ]

Travis, judging by what I've seen in your writings here, you are one of the sanest people I know.

Sanity is merely the illusion that a simple norm exists. But I thank you for that. Sometimes in the midst of life we lose what is sane, what is real, and who we were the day before.

[W3WN]

This weekend my 21 year old Cousin was intentionally killed by a guy riding a motorcycle on SR 18 in PA. No matter the choice of weapon, it is not the weapon that does the killing but rather the one wielding said weapon. If someone wants to take a life they will find a way to do so, period.My condolences as well.

[W3WN]

Trav: You're not insane. You're just not in lockstep with what all too many consider "normal." You don't put your head down and take orders meekishly. You ask questions. You question authority.

In short, what you're not, is Mundane.

---
WRT:
I have come to the realization more than once that I do not understand people or their actions.Too many people... or should I say in this case, induhviduals... are for themselves first second & third, and the blazes with everyone else. These types have no regards for the consequences of their actions, especially the consequences to others.

Ran into that on Saturday. I'll list the details elsewhere, I don't want to detract from this. Suffice to say, the perpetrator had no qualms whatsoever about what could have happened to us... only about his own carcass. Not even a trace of guilt or conscience. I'm not sure I want to call induhviduals like that human.

[kf4wxd]

We all heard "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Duh ?? No brainer there

By the same token...

Atomic bombs don't kill people, people kill people
Knives don't kill people, people kill people
Lances, swords, and clubs don't kill people, people kill people.

I am 100% all for 2nd amendment rights and am all for guns but, sometimes people use guns to kill people. My point, some of the cliches used by the good pro-gun folks are really lame. I think they need to come up with some better slogans.

Don't need any slogans. The Heller case re-affirmed that the second amendment is an individual right, like voting and freedom of speech and the MacDonald case incorporated the second amendment into the fourteenth amendment, making it incumbent upon the states to protect our rights. Maybe now we will begin to see sane gun laws in places like New Jersey, Illinois and California.

Russ

[KC2UGV]

Don't need any slogans. The Heller case re-affirmed that the second amendment is an individual right, like voting and freedom of speech and the MacDonald case incorporated the second amendment into the fourteenth amendment, making it incumbent upon the states to protect our rights. Maybe now we will begin to see sane gun laws in places like New Jersey, Illinois and California.

Russ

You do know, that the SCOTUS can be wrong, from time to time, right?

Heller was one of the most blatant cases of judicial activism on the books. The notion of the second being in place to secure well regulated militias, and not pertaining to self-defense are illustrated by the very quick passage of the Militia Acts of 1792.

[W5GA]

You do know, that the SCOTUS can be wrong, from time to time, right?

Heller was one of the most blatant cases of judicial activism on the books. The notion of the second being in place to secure well regulated militias, and not pertaining to self-defense are illustrated by the very quick passage of the Militia Acts of 1792.
Keep having these wet dreams, Corey. Historically, you're wrong.

[n2ize]

Don't need any slogans. The Heller case re-affirmed that the second amendment is an individual right, like voting and freedom of speech and the MacDonald case incorporated the second amendment into the fourteenth amendment, making it incumbent upon the states to protect our rights. Maybe now we will begin to see sane gun laws in places like New Jersey, Illinois and California.

Russ

Hopefully New York too.

[KC2UGV]

Keep having these wet dreams, Corey. Historically, you're wrong.

Historically? Come on, the Militia Acts of 1792 came a mere 6 years after ratification!

[W5GA]

Historically? Come on, the Militia Acts of 1792 came a mere 6 years after ratification!
How conveniently you ignore the entire rest of the nation's founding.

[KC2UGV]

How conveniently you ignore the entire rest of the nation's founding.

Sigh. I'm not ignoring it. The nation was founded successfully, by and large, because of our militiamen. And, the second amendment protected the concept of militiamen, and the Militia Acts of 1792 codified it into law.

Which goes on to show: The second amendment has naught to do with toting a hand cannon around town, and everything to do with national defense. Which, the SCOTUS got wrong in Heller, and they did a huge "Hail Mary" and won, when it comes to judicial activism.

Even prior to our nation's founding, people didn't walk around with hand cannons. They maybe had a rifle, holstered on their horse, or on their back if they were coming from outside of town into town. They didn't walk around hoping to kill someone for looking funny.

And, even then, when employed for "Self Defense", it's because the notion of a police force didn't exist. Cars didn't exist. Phones didn't exist. A 911 system didn't exist.

[N7YA]

I just thought of something. The Berlin Wall had areas where automatic machine gun turrets were set up, they worked autonomously with motion sensors...that would actually be a case of guns killing people without people killing people...at least not directly.


Ok, back to you guys.

[KC2UGV]

I just thought of something. The Berlin Wall had areas where automatic machine gun turrets were set up, they worked autonomously with motion sensors...that would actually be a case of guns killing people without people killing people...at least not directly.


Ok, back to you guys.

They had those in Aeon Flux too :)

[NQ6U]

They had those in Aeon Flux too :)

As I recall, my high school them them too.

http://caprop184.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/san-quentin-5-big.jpg
My old alma mater.

[N7YA]

I notice the smart fishermen there...thats where the good stuff is!