AM'ers?

[KC2IFR]

Are there any AM'ers on this board besides me???????

(Be nice!):nicethread:

Bill

[WØTKX]

Yes, but they don't have working antennas. :snicker:

[KC2IFR]

Well.......thats better than using a G5RV...........

[WØTKX]

Meh. I'll raise you an Isotron.

I do AM from time to time. My favorite AM rig is my Flex 3000. :yes:

[n2ize]

Are there any AM'ers on this board besides me???????

(Be nice!):nicethread:

Bill

Yeah, I'm an AM'er. I have a Johnson Viking 2, a Valiant, a Globe king 500 a Kenwood receiver and a few old boatanchor tube receivers. I am also the one without a functioning antenna, my Inverted Vee was wrecked in a storm and I haven't put it back yet, although I have the stuff I need so it will be going back up soon. I was on 75 and 40 and 10 m AM a lot back in the mid-late 80's and early-mid 90's during which time I got into the New England / East Coast AM sound.... No G5RV's here, just telegraph wire and balanced line and Johnson Matchboxes. ;)

P.S. Probably worked you back in the days... call sounds very familiar.

[W1GUH]

Used to be, will be again very soon.

John -- all those great AM radios and no motivation to get that antenna up? Tsk Tsk.

[WØTKX]

Hey! "Dot" sez play nice. :stickpoke:

[W1GUH]

Who or what is Dot? And why should I care?

[WØTKX]

We'll tell ya in the... ... ... AM?

[n2ize]

Used to be, will be again very soon.

John -- all those great AM radios and no motivation to get that antenna up? Tsk Tsk.

No, there isn't "no motivation". There is actually strong motivation and it has been growing in strength. I do have other interests that come first but, I am anxious to get things going for HF because I am sick of being limited to VHF/UHF. So yeah, we will have that aerial up soon.

[W1GUH]

No, there isn't "no motivation". There is actually strong motivation and it has been growing in strength. I do have other interests that come first but, I am anxious to get things going for HF because I am sick of being limited to VHF/UHF. So yeah, we will have that aerial up soon.


Was thinking of you Saturday morning. Got one of those thingies that combine a slingshot with a fishing reel. Not an EZ-hang, but something else that cost a LOT less the the "real" one. You're very, very welcome to borrow it. I'll deliver it promptly on request!

[N8YX]

I play around with 10M AM from time to time. One of my 940s is going to be modded for true AM - albeit low-level - in the near future, and I'll probably have it on 75 or 40 a bit.

[n2ize]

Was thinking of you Saturday morning. Got one of those thingies that combine a slingshot with a fishing reel. Not an EZ-hang, but something else that cost a LOT less the the "real" one. You're very, very welcome to borrow it. I'll deliver it promptly on request!

I'll let you know my good friend. Right now I am under stress and sadness. I can't think to much about radio or anything at the moment. I'll explain when I get a chance.

[W1GUH]

Take you time, John. That sounds tough and here's hoping things work out.

[W3WN]

Are there any AM'ers on this board besides me???????

(Be nice!):nicethread:

BillNot at present, but that's only because I don't have the proper gear for it (I miss my HT-37 at times like this...)

You do have me thinking, though. I'm going to have to talk with K4NQA, I wonder if it's time to revive the Ghosts?

[The Ghosts were an informal group of Pittsburgh-based 10 meter AM operators, who were all QRV once or twice a week, after local midnight. When Dave & I joined the group, we were both well under 30, and most of the other ops were well past 65. I think we're the last two left.]

[KK4AMI]

I'm a wanna be AMer. Just haven't figured out the right radio yet. I kinda got sidetracked with my little TenTec Argonaut V.

[NQ6U]

Was thinking of you Saturday morning. Got one of those thingies that combine a slingshot with a fishing reel. Not an EZ-hang, but something else that cost a LOT less the the "real" one.

Details, please! I'm looking for something like that for Field Day—lots of tall Ponderosa pines for hanging antennas at my club's FD QTH in the mountains east of here but even the lowest branches are 30' or more above the ground.

[WØTKX]

I know I'm a broken record about this, but I've tried "slings and arrows".

The tennis ball cannon works best. Short or long distance. Period.

I'll be using mine again soon, I'll try to post a video.

[NQ6U]

I know I'm a broken record about this, but I've tried "slings and arrows".

The tennis ball cannon works best. Short or long distance. Period.

Yeah, I know, but building one of those is more of a production than I want to get into for something I'll only use once a year and I'd need to bring along a source of compressed air. I don't own an air compressor and the gas station nearest to our Field Day site is about 30 miles away.

[WØTKX]

For those who have not seen the linky: http://www.akbeng.com/products/antenna-launchers/

A bicycle pump is good enough, 80 PSI is about max, 60 shoots 200'+ straight up dragging line. Forty PSI is about right most of the time.... $5 foot pump from the thrift store with no working gauge, no problem, one on the launcher right on the pressure chamber... the "deluxe" kit. It is a minor pain to build, but it's not too bad. Mine is the CSV19 kit, but you can go much cheaper. I procrastinated, tried other things too.

Then I got sicker than hell, and it sat unbuilt for six months. Now, I just procrastinate about putting up antennas. ;)

But really, I should do a video, and start a new thread about it.

[W3WN]

Details, please! I'm looking for something like that for Field Day—lots of tall Ponderosa pines for hanging antennas at my club's FD QTH in the mountains east of here but even the lowest branches are 30' or more above the ground.http://vimeo.com/219339


For those who have not seen the linky: http://www.akbeng.com/products/antenna-launchers/
< snip >I don't think that's where Larry and Bill (W3WH) got their launcher, but what they have is very similar. And yes, it is pressurized with a bicycle pump; I've used it a few times.

Slick. And if you're planning to put up a lot of wires in trees, very effective. Sure beats tying a string to a wrench, trying to toss the wrench over a tree limb, and then spending 2 hours trying to find the wrench...

[WØTKX]

Yes, that's the same video I posted here a while back. Maybe I should but a HamIsland logo on mine. ;)

[W3WN]

Yes, that's the same video I posted here a while back. Maybe I should but a HamIsland logo on mine. ;)Oh? Interesting.

The link I posted was to a video courtesy of Larry K3VX, filmed by his wife Tippi WA3JPP(SK). I think Larry & Bill had another one online, but I couldn't find it on short notice.

[W1GUH]

Details, please! I'm looking for something like that for Field Day—lots of tall Ponderosa pines for hanging antennas at my club's FD QTH in the mountains east of here but even the lowest branches are 30' or more above the ground.

Here's a link that'll show you how to homebrew one. (http://www.wcerc.org/Projects/w1crm_slingshot.asp)

The one I bought used that same slingshot, but the fishing reel is attached to the slingshot with hose clamps on one of those side rods. It's down in my car now, but I'll be able to take a pic to post tomorrow.

[W1GUH]

One tip I read somewhere, probably the ARRL Antenna book or a Handbook, was to NOT shoot for a particular branch in the tree. Shoot the weight over the entire tree. The attached line will find the branch it wants to be on by itself.

Works well, when it can be used. Can't always get where that's possible on some trees.

About pneumatic launchers....look like a lot of fun, but is it really cost-effective over a slingshot setup?

[W1GUH]

'WN


Not at present, but that's only because I don't have the proper gear for it (I miss my HT-37 at times like this...)


[AM'er OF mode on]

HT-37? Proper AM rig? Ahem....a "proper" AM rig has lotsa heavy metal in it -- mod transformers are a requirement! And low-end audio frequencies are too. Hi end is up to the individual station and how much BW the op is willing to use.

[AM'er OF mode off]

[WØTKX]

Yes, shoot it over the whole tree, and it's best to NOT run wire into/through the tree. Use rope to support the wire in the air, but out of the tree. And it's easy to copy the design on the link I gave. The design on the video link is similar to the kit I bought...

But yea, to argue the semantics (if we must) theirs is a little different than mine.

[KC2IFR]

This is just a test. Speaking of antennas, this is my home brew link coupled antenna tooner..........
5567

[KC2IFR]

This is a link to pics of the innards of my AM transmitter.........a 4-1000 modulated by a pair of 833's....
http://www.kc2ifram.com/page 2.html

[W1GUH]

This is just a test. Speaking of antennas, this is my home brew link coupled antenna tooner..........
5567

Looks line one damn FB tuner. I'm a total aficionado of that kind of tuner construction (been known as the Tuner of Death), but have considered making one that's switched and enclosed. Gave up on that project when I got a Matchbox.

That pic shows just how simple a really good tuner is - takes little time to construct. Finding the parts can be tricky, but they're out there & available and not all that expensive.

Super!

FWIW -- I didn't have a proper "link coupled coil." No problem. The Handbook circuit made the coil out of one piece of standard coil stock. Two cuts are made, making three coils. Two equal ones on the outside - that's the output side, and the inside coil (smaller) is the link. Worked fine.

[W1GUH]

This is a link to pics of the innards of my AM transmitter.........a 4-1000 modulated by a pair of 833's....
http://www.kc2ifram.com/page 2.html


Ah....the radio I always wanted, a plate modulated 4x1. Bet you ALWAYS keep carrier output power to 375 watts, right? That's what I did when I ran a 4x1 in linear AM service. No matter how I tuned up or the input power was, the Coaxial Dynamics wattmeter ALWAYS said 375 watts of carrier. Yep. You betcha!

[KC2IFR]

Yup........ALWAYS keep the carrier at 375 watts..........why is my nose growing????????????

[KC2IFR]

A quick point about antennas.....I needed a wire antenna that would cover all bands and I live on a small lot in suburbia. I was ALWAYS told by the old timers that if that is the case........put up a dipole as high and as long as possible, feed it with balanced line and tune it with a link coupled tooner. No bullshit with any other antenna............it ALWAYS works...............my antenna will tune from 10 meters to 160........not the best on 160 because its only 135ft long......but it works........so there......!

[WØTKX]

I :heart: balanced line. For audio signals too!

[W1GUH]

A quick point about antennas.....I needed a wire antenna that would cover all bands and I live on a small lot in suburbia. I was ALWAYS told by the old timers that if that is the case........put up a dipole as high and as long as possible, feed it with balanced line and tune it with a link coupled tooner. No bullshit with any other antenna............it ALWAYS works...............my antenna will tune from 10 meters to 160........not the best on 160 because its only 135ft long......but it works........so there......!


+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

:agree::yes::cheers:

[KC2IFR]

I :heart: balanced line. For audio signals too!

U are so correct.........balanced line is the best for both worlds............

[WØTKX]

Twisted pairs in CAT6? Transmission line of the balanced variety. :yes:

Now if we could just convince the idiots who make soundcards to do balanced line. :roll:

And the nasty "Pin 1" problem needs to just go away. Oh well. Sigh.

[n2ize]

A quick point about antennas.....I needed a wire antenna that would cover all bands and I live on a small lot in suburbia. I was ALWAYS told by the old timers that if that is the case........put up a dipole as high and as long as possible, feed it with balanced line and tune it with a link coupled tooner. No bullshit with any other antenna............it ALWAYS works...............my antenna will tune from 10 meters to 160........not the best on 160 because its only 135ft long......but it works........so there......!

Yes, that is what always works for me. Balanced line fed doublet with a link coupled tuner.

[n2ize]

This is just a test. Speaking of antennas, this is my home brew link coupled antenna tooner..........
5567

Very nice tuner. And I see you are using REAL ladder line. Not that twin lead stuff that many use these days.

[n2ize]

This is a link to pics of the innards of my AM transmitter.........a 4-1000 modulated by a pair of 833's....
http://www.kc2ifram.com/page 2.html

Nice... I'd love to build up a rig like that.

[NQ6U]

It all looks suitably dangerous enough to be interesting.

[KC2IFR]

This is SOME of the audio stuff I use with my AM stations...........
5577

[KC2IFR]

And the nasty "Pin 1" problem needs to just go away. Oh well. Sigh.

Yup.........the old "ground loop" problem..........its amazing how many folks dont understand what this is all about..........

[KC2IFR]

When it comes to using audio stuff.......this is best site I have ever seen on the web.......I have used Rane equipment both in pro sound and with my AM stuff..
Check it out..........
http://www.rane.com/library.html

[n2ize]

This is SOME of the audio stuff I use with my AM stations...........
5577

You stole my BL40 MODUlimiter !!! Hah, I have that same unit in my audio chain.

[w2amr]

I get on AM from time to time.
http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/579406644pRQcTR

[WØTKX]

I have a small Behringer board, a larger Tascam Porta-Studio board, and an ARX Afterburner compressor limiter. Don't have that audio "chain" hooked up to the transmit side at this time, as I quit using the TS-850 (w/DSP-100) as my main rig. And yes, I :heart: ESSB. Just don't be a goof when transmitting... scope, scope, scope. Use it! :yes:

The ARX is a stereo unit that lets you cascade in mono, different settings for low and high frequencies, with an adjustable crossover. :wiggle:

Got it on eBay for about $75. Mine is the older "original", but it has not changed much. http://www.arx.com.au/Australia/Aburner.htm

However, the PowerSDR software running a Flex 3000 does a great job of tweaking the audio for my voice, the "compander" and "down expander" capabilities are decent. So I've been using that, and that really nice TS-850 just sits. I'm a rotten kid.

Heil GM-5 running the wide element most of the time for the microphone. I've also used an MD-100 which is good, just misses more on the lows. And a Heil Traveler for screaming DX. Saved all those individual settings so I can play around and switch microphones if I want to. A large diaphragm unit someday, maybe. Marshall makes a nice budget one.

A local friend WØOD was very active on AM for a lot of years. Big Heathkit "iron", all setup under dust covers. He's not active on AM much anymore.

[W1GUH]

Very nice tuner. And I see you are using REAL ladder line. Not that twin lead stuff that many use these days.

Get outta here. The loss difference between all balanced feedlines, including 300 ohm TV twin-lead is practically negligible, especially when compared with even the lowest-loss coax. OTOH, none of it looks as sexy as HB open-wire feed line. 'Cept maybe TV twin lead that a lot of us used for folded dipoles as novices.

[W1GUH]

As for audio-chain boxes, my favorite of all time was the CBS Audimax I ran in the early nineties. It would raise the gain (and the background noise) if it detected a small signal on the input. LOVED playing with that on the air. Kept the modulation absolutely constant, regardless of whether I was speaking across the room or close-talking it.

Planning on running a small, as in 1/2 rack space, compressor/limiter (already have one) and EQ for the AM mobile lash-up. Only question left is which AM mobile radio I have is most amenable to being modded for hi-fi audio. The other idea that I'm going to pursue is use the Gonset Modulator/PS to plate modulate my Cheyenne. I LOVE the look of the Heath mobile twins & that would take care of one of the two things I don't particularly like. The other thing I'd like to change is the Comanche isn't particularly good for hi-fi audio. If I could bridge the filter for more BW, that'd be sweet. Or I suppose I could use the Cheyenne with the G-66 or even the Super-12 converter. So many options; so little time!

OTOH...

Both the Gonset Twins and the G-76 would be so much more practical - they're a lot smaller. Matter of fact, the twins' front panels add up to almost exactly the same size as the G-76. Wonder if that was on purpose?

[n2ize]

Get outta here. The loss difference between all balanced feedlines, including 300 ohm TV twin-lead is practically negligible, especially when compared with even the lowest-loss coax. OTOH, none of it looks as sexy as HB open-wire feed line. 'Cept maybe TV twin lead that a lot of us used for folded dipoles as novices.

Timtron suggested I lose the 450 ohm twin lead and replace it with real homebrew ladder line. Now, if Timtron say's that real ladder line is superior to 450 ohm twin lead then it is superior... case closed. ;)

[PA5COR]

Been trying the Yaesu FT 2000 D out, 50 watt carrier and a tad over 225 watts out.
Using just the Yaesu MD-1 and EQplus for SSB and AM.

If i go to Class A mode i set the carrier lower to 12 to 15 watts getting 50 to 55 pep into the SB-1000 that makes 800 watts PEP out of it.
Getting good results in audio with the right settings though, might not be ESSB but quite good for the setup.

[W1GUH]

Timtron suggested I lose the 450 ohm twin lead and replace it with real homebrew ladder line. Now, if Timtron say's that real ladder line is superior to 450 ohm twin lead then it is superior... case closed. ;)

Got me there! Just like last Fri/Sat. Got a few "good sounding signal" and one "restricted and yellowy" from Tim. Of course, the "yellowy" comment is the one that I took to heart....but then, I'm already planning on making at least one of my mobile BA's hi-fi!

Tim can get away with this "pickyness" because it really isn't. He's just being helpful & very, very generous with his information.

[W1GUH]

Can someone please explain the motivation for ESSB? The concepts of "hi fi audio" and SSB just don't fit in my brain at the same time.

[WØTKX]

Well it can and does sound very nice. Just like making and AM rig sound clear and articulate. How wide are your sidebands on AM if you are setup for good clear ragchewing? Probably 10Khz, maybe a bit less? That would be 5Khz on SSB. With my voice, it's not a big change after about 4.2Khz wide. So if I went with that on AM, it would be about 8.5 Khz. I've run as wide as 6Khz eSSB with lots of room on either side... but again, it didn't buy me much.

Of course, when listening to eSSB... if your receiver is not (set or capable) wide enough, it might sound a bit "off", and this happens a lot. And some I have had QSO'd with don't quite understand the knobs don't go to 11. But most do, and it's really fun to talk to folks when the audio sounds damn nice, and not all pinched and narrow. Or "Yellowy". ;)

It's really the same game as producing a really nice AM signal. It might surprise the hell out of you, SSB can sound really good.

I've talked to John, NU9N a few times the past few years. http://www.nu9n.com/intro.html (http://www.nu9n.com/intro.html)

But, we could start another thread about all that... and this thread is about AM. Preferably plate modulated, eh? ;)

[W1GUH]

Thanks for the explanation -- sounds good. And you covered my chief doubt with "Of course, when listening to eSSB... if your receiver is not (set or capable) wide enough, it might sound a bit "off"...". To that I'd add.....or maybe use a BA rx that allows switching out the filter entirely. Even "normal" SSB sounds much better without a filter with all the potential distortion it can introduce. That would sound good!

Thanks again.

[n2ize]

Put that radio on AM!!!!

[WØTKX]

I have John. The TS-850 and both of my FT-857's have been fired up in the AM mode.

My Flex is my best (working) rig for AM. A big part of that is the SAM mode on RX.

I do have an FT-902DM that needs work to transmit. Need to get a "roundtoit".

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss33/walrus_01/Roundtoit.jpg

[W1GUH]

What kind of audio reports did you get on the 857's? I only tried once, before I'd turned down the mic level for AM. I've got a real block about putting a rice box on AM -- I"m enough of an old fuddy-duddy to want my AM made the old-fashioned way, with heavy metal!

[NQ6U]

I've got a real block about putting a rice box on AM

I've done it, but I know what you mean—it just don't seem right.

[WØTKX]

Actually not too bad. Scope and monitor RX. Imagine that. Most of the FT-857 AM QSOs were on 6 and 2 meters.

But I'm gentle with knobs that go to 11... and most modern rigs can sound like crap on AM, with little effort.

The TS-850 was easier to get sounding nice, the FT-857 is a bit hot on the audio. The MD-100 mic helps a lot.

[n2ize]

What kind of audio reports did you get on the 857's? I only tried once, before I'd turned down the mic level for AM. I've got a real block about putting a rice box on AM -- I"m enough of an old fuddy-duddy to want my AM made the old-fashioned way, with heavy metal!

Fully solid state class E rigs "a la Steve - WA1QIX/KA1SI" were becoming all the rage last I heard. State of the art, fully solid state, no transformers, clean, crisp, hi fi AM sound that fits right in with the New England East Coast AM scene.

[W1GUH]

Fully solid state class E rigs "a la Steve - WA1QIX/KA1SI" were becoming all the rage last I heard. StYate of the art, fully solid state, no transformers, clean, crisp, hi fi AM sound that fits right in with the New England East Coast AM scene.

They sound excellent -- my preference is OF sentiment. Maybe "someday" I'll take the plunge and build class C rig.

[n2ize]

They sound excellent -- my preference is OF sentiment. Maybe "someday" I'll take the plunge and build class C rig.

Class C is cool. A nice 813 rig or one like the OP showed above. If you have access to the "bottles" and the iron you are good to go. Otherwise, class E is a nice alternative. Power mosfets are readily available at good prices and all the support components are state of the art and readily available. And any ricebox will work fine as an exciter. If I were to scratch build up a "big rig" these days I would probably go class E solid state all the way. Transformer-less coupling = nice clean audio response. It's that sound of the modern radio...the modern AM radio sound...so nice to hear across New England when its cold outside...I got the AM radio on. !!

[KC2IFR]

Quick thought.............the class "e" stuff is great.......but........the audio response is dc to light. That said, some stations are 20 to 30 KC wide and they dont give a shit that they are using the whole "AM Window" on 75. If someone complains that they are wide........their pat response is "so is your ass".
Ill respond more later........

Bill

[WØTKX]

I've heard and seen that happen a few times.

But, it's hard for some to not crank it to 11.

You learn who not to talk to.

[KB3LAZ]

I thought my 857 was just awful on AM. At the time a local had one as well. We tried a little AM, I just could not use the 857 on AM or listen to his. Mind you, 857 and 100D imo are just dreadfully awful sounding rigs to begin with. To each their own.

No, I dont just dislike all Yaesu gear. I loved my 920.

[W1GUH]

Class C is cool. A nice 813 rig or one like the OP showed above. If you have access to the "bottles" and the iron you are good to go. Otherwise, class E is a nice alternative. Power mosfets are readily available at good prices and all the support components are state of the art and readily available. And any ricebox will work fine as an exciter. If I were to scratch build up a "big rig" these days I would probably go class E solid state all the way. Transformer-less coupling = nice clean audio response. It's that sound of the modern radio...the modern AM radio sound...so nice to hear across New England when its cold outside...I got the AM radio on. !!

Ooops - typo. Shoulda read, "Maybe "someday" I'll take the plunge and build class E rig. ".

Sounds like the reasonable thing to do in my situation. No big iron means not the BA type heaviness of a traditional AM rig with the big iron.

Our later comments made that very clear! Thanks for the info, John.

[W1GUH]

There are a few ops in the window that seem to be full of themselves. Pity that -- but they're a small segment. (Not sure about that -- my info is pretty old.) The thing is, you can sound very good with 10kc of BW or even less. Dunno if the "so is your ass" mentality is pure ego or the op is too lazy to put a proper low pass filter in the audio chain or at least an EQ.




Quick thought.............the class "e" stuff is great.......but........the audio response is dc to light. That said, some stations are 20 to 30 KC wide and they dont give a shit that they are using the whole "AM Window" on 75. If someone complains that they are wide........their pat response is "so is your ass".
Ill respond more later........

Bill

[n2ize]

There are a few ops in the window that seem to be full of themselves. Pity that -- but they're a small segment. (Not sure about that -- my info is pretty old.) The thing is, you can sound very good with 10kc of BW or even less. Dunno if the "so is your ass" mentality is pure ego or the op is too lazy to put a proper low pass filter in the audio chain or at least an EQ.

I remember the old days when "Ron the Boot" would get on... Damned his signal was sometimes very wide. I had two options when he was on the air. Either to get on frequency with him and join his QSO, move as far away as I could get and narrow up the receiver as much as possible. One last option was, shut down the radio and come back another day.

Every now and then my signal would get a bit funky, particularly when I had the negative peak clipper in the circuit and I hit the audio too hard. It would give me a slight touch of that raspy NYC broadcast AM sound, i.e. "The Metro area loudness wars". :lol: Most of the time I would just run some compression and asymmetrical peak limiting to get that clean sound with a lot of punch. My rig would tend to saturate itself in the midrange audio freq's so I would always compensate with a lot of attenuation in the mid range and a little boost on the high and low end to enhance the fidelity.

[PA5COR]

My FT 100 with AM xfilter does just fine with standard microphone, but you need the 6 KHz xfilter, i got one cheap and put it in the FT 100 played with the microphone settings and get good reports.
It won't be a stellar performer but good decent AM modulation is possible.

[KG4NEL]

About pneumatic launchers....look like a lot of fun, but is it really cost-effective over a slingshot setup?

Depends on how tall the trees you're aiming for are ;)

Having seen one in action for Field Day, I was impressed.