Is Amateur radio related to the "Prepper" Movement?

[KK4AMI]

My wife and I were watching the Today Show this morning. They did a show on the American Prepper Movement. Apparently it is a large group of people (over 3 million families) that believes in preparing for the end of the world as we know it.

Definition of a prepper:
Prepper (noun): An individual or group that prepares or makes preparations in advance of, or prior to, any change in normal circumstances or lifestyle without significant reliance on other persons (i.e., being self-reliant), or without substantial assistance from outside resources (govt., etc.) in order to minimize the effects of that change on their current lifestyle.

They build shelters, stock a year supply of food, turn their pools into stocked fish ponds and yes they wear gas masks :nono:

I laughed at that, but my wife asked "What are you laughing at?" "You have a Radio and Generator to practice for emergencies, a radio in your truck and we keep a chest freezer with about three months of food. "

[n2ize]

How can anyone prepare for the end of the world ?

[N8YX]

Jump Teams are standing by. Please monitor 14275Khz for details.

[KC2UGV]

I don't prep for the end of the world. I just am prepared. Knowledge is a bigger asset to have than material goods.

Example:

I locate close to running water. This way, I have a water supply.
I am familiar with the animals and fora of my area. This allows me to do "hunter gatherer" style living, should I have to.
I know how to make rudimentary weapons. This enables me to defend myself and home, as well as to hunt.

We have survived with nothing but spears and animal skins. Everything else is extra.

---EDIT---

I also know the key strategy in survival in a collapse of known civilization: As quickly as possible, get away from other people, and pick up stragglers along the way to build your new tribe. There is strength in numbers.

[KK4AMI]

How can anyone prepare for the end of the world ?

Read the whole thing "end of the world as we know it!" Economic collapse, natural disaster, collapse of government or war. I hear an asteroid is coming danger close around 2040. Not worried about that one however. I'm more interested in how close I can get to 2040.

[KK4AMI]

I don't prep for the end of the world. I just am prepared. Knowledge is a bigger asset to have than material goods.

Example:

I locate close to running water. This way, I have a water supply.
I am familiar with the animals and fora of my area. This allows me to do "hunter gatherer" style living, should I have to.
I know how to make rudimentary weapons. This enables me to defend myself and home, as well as to hunt.

We have survived with nothing but spears and animal skins. Everything else is extra.

---EDIT---

I also know the key strategy in survival in a collapse of known civilization: As quickly as possible, get away from other people, and pick up stragglers along the way to build your new tribe. There is strength in numbers.

Thanks, I think you just made my wife's point.

[W3WN]

My wife and I were watching the Today Show this morning. They did a show on the American Prepper Movement. Apparently it is a large group of people (over 3 million families) that believes in preparing for the end of the world as we know it.

Definition of a prepper:
Prepper (noun): An individual or group that prepares or makes preparations in advance of, or prior to, any change in normal circumstances or lifestyle without significant reliance on other persons (i.e., being self-reliant), or without substantial assistance from outside resources (govt., etc.) in order to minimize the effects of that change on their current lifestyle.

They build shelters, stock a year supply of food, turn their pools into stocked fish ponds and yes they wear gas masks :nono:

I laughed at that, but my wife asked "What are you laughing at?" "You have a Radio and Generator to practice for emergencies, a radio in your truck and we keep a chest freezer with about three months of food. "
The Prepper movement is preparing for a specific civilization-ending event, one that will be so massive and destructive as to be something akin to the biblical Armaggedon.

Amateur radio operators, for the most part, prepare for disasters on a much smaller scale... loss of power or communications for a few days, for the most part.

The similiarity begins with both groups being prepared for disasters. But it stops when you start realizing the differences in the order of magnitude of the disasters being prepared for.

[KC2UGV]

Thanks, I think you just made my wife's point.

Except, I don't do the whole "stocking up" thing. I stock up on knowledge, including situation awareness.

[KK4AMI]

Except, I don't do the whole "stocking up" thing. I stock up on knowledge, including situation awareness.

I guess its good to plan, just remember the population is over 300 million now. That might make for a little competition while out there hunting and gathering.

[KK4AMI]

Looking at my Redneck Thesaurus I think there are subtle differences between a Survivalist and a Prepper. A survivalist has plenty of guns, camping gear and a 4 Wheel Drive. He takes off into the Boonies and camps. The Prepper is outfitted to stay put and survive independently from Society on his own land. He Stores, farms and raises chickens and pigs. Its more like he is preparing for the collapse of Society. You should see some of the Underground shelters they sell. About $50,000 for an 8 foot culvert pipe converted into an underground home. Hmm, with all these tornadoes, I would like to have a basement.

[n2ize]

Looking at my Redneck Thesaurus I think there are subtle differences between a Survivalist and a Prepper. A survivalist has plenty of guns, camping gear and a 4 Wheel Drive. He takes off into the Boonies and camps. The Prepper is outfitted to stay put and survive independently from Society on his own land. He Stores, farms and raises chickens and pigs. Its more like he is preparing for the collapse of Society. You should see some of the Underground shelters they sell. About $50,000 for an 8 foot culvert pipe converted into an underground home. Hmm, with all these tornadoes, I would like to have a basement.

More of the "take to the hills" fraternity. As far as I'm concerned such "take to the hills" activity borders on treason. The true patriots are the able bodied people who remain in their cities and towns to fight and start rebuilding and getting things back on line and back to normal. Society will only collapse if we let it. If we stay put and remain strong society will survive.

In the event of a major war or problem I am staying in my city/town and fight and work to restore it. How about you ? Have you got what it takes ? Have you got the guts ?

[KK4AMI]

"In the event of a major war or problem I am staying in my city/town and fight and work to restore it. How about you ? Have you got what it takes ? Have you got the guts ?"

Uh, no. I fell for that line 34 years ago when I signed up. Like to think I've grown up since. Actually it sounds like a line outta "Starship Trooper" Citizen.

[KK4AMI]

Actually, I can see Amateur Radio coming to the rescue of the Nation in the event of a nation wide depression. My logic in seeing this is based on what bills I would get rid of as a depression becomes more and more severe. Going first with what I could live without.

1. Satellite TV bill (I'd go back to an antenna)
2. Internet Provider (go back to public Library)
3. Cell Phones (go back to a land line)
4. Get rid of all but one car
5. Grow my own food and kill my grocery bill.

I think on anybody's list my first 3 items would be theirs to. That means commercial communications companies would likely collapse first (yes/no?). Enter Amateur radio to fill the wireless and long distance comms problems.

[XE1/N5AL]

Over the years, I've known a few "preppers/survivalists". I know a couple of hams who maintain a year's supply of food and lot's of drinking water in their basements. They are well stocked with guns, and have a huge supply of ammo, should the "takers" arrive at their doorstep. In a sense, all this preparation and stockpiling is like another hobby to them.

[KG4CGC]

OBAMA IS AFTER YOUR GARDENS!

[KK4AMI]

OBAMA IS AFTER YOUR GARDENS!

Nah, Michelle is pretty good at growing her own.

[KG4CGC]

Nah, Michelle is pretty good at growing her own.
She's after your children! Michelle Obama Eats Babies!

[WØTKX]

1. Satellite TV bill (I'd go back to an antenna)
2. Internet Provider (go back to public Library)
3. Cell Phones (go back to a land line)
4. Get rid of all but one car
5. Grow my own food and kill my grocery bill.



These items are good for just living, but I'd keep the Internet and use it for "wired communication", such as the telephone. Unless/until it winks out. And an underground home. Because it's much better energy wise.

Just have a tower (or six) and a garage above ground.

Oh, and a Diesel powered vehicle that could be run on crappy and/or recycled fuels.

[XE1/N5AL]

Jump Teams are standing by. Please monitor 14275Khz for details.
As long as we have the IARN and those new 60 meter exclusive EMCOMM channels, humanity still holds a candle of hope.

[ad4mg]

She's after your children! Michelle Obama Eats Babies!

Jesus!

[KC2UGV]

I guess its good to plan, just remember the population is over 300 million now. That might make for a little competition while out there hunting and gathering.

You can assume that whatever causes the collapse of civilization will whittle that number down substantially. And, it's also why you get as far away from people as possible.

[W2NAP]

You can assume that whatever causes the collapse of civilization will whittle that number down substantially. And, it's also why you get as far away from people as possible.

if the us dollar became worthless and the economy totally collapsed. it would lead to prob. 1/2 the population dead within 2 months

[KC2UGV]

if the us dollar became worthless and the economy totally collapsed. it would lead to prob. 1/2 the population dead within 2 months

Which is another big reason to get as far away from urban areas as possible: Mass death brings disease.

[W2NAP]

Which is another big reason to get as far away from urban areas as possible: Mass death brings disease.

exactly, and that is where the mass death would be the urban areas. between criminals killing people, no food, very little water. anyone who stays in a urban area chances are will be dead within 2 months.

take the population of the top 50 urban areas and that gives you a good idea on the death toll.

[suddenseer]

Nah, Michelle is pretty good at growing her own.For once we have a first lady that is smoking hot.

[NQ6U]

She's after your children! Michelle Obama Eats Babies!

No she doesn't. Babies are not a healthy food--too fatty.

[KK4AMI]

No she doesn't. Babies are not a healthy food--too fatty.\

Mmmm Veal!

[KJ3N]

Jesus!

WWRJD?

[KJ3N]

For once we have a first lady that is smoking hot.

I thought she wasn't your type? ;)

[n2ize]

"In the event of a major war or problem I am staying in my city/town and fight and work to restore it. How about you ? Have you got what it takes ? Have you got the guts ?"

Uh, no. I fell for that line 34 years ago when I signed up. Like to think I've grown up since. Actually it sounds like a line outta "Starship Trooper" Citizen.

It is going to take real men to send their wives children tosafer ground while we able bodied men stay behind and devote our time, energy, and pain and suffering to rebuild our cities, our towns, villages, infrastructure, economy, etc. Some of us may die in the process. Some of us may suffer, But many of us will survive. Regardless of which category we fall into we will all be playing an invaluable role by staying behind where we are most needed rather than taking to the hills.

Matter of fact, many of those who take to the hills will find that its not as easy as they thought. During WW2 many Europeans discovered this when they tried to leave their cities and towns for the countryside. Many of them wound up returning.

It's going to take guts, hard work, determination, and pain, but we can do it.

[n2ize]

Which is another big reason to get as far away from urban areas as possible: Mass death brings disease.

Only if those of us able bodied persons take to the hills. I am getting old. I am not in the best shape as I was when i was younger. I cannot climb as high, run as long or fast, or walk as far as I could when i was younger. Sometimes my knees hurt. But, I am willing to deal with my shortcomings and stay in my city and work as hard as I can and do as much as I can if, God forbid, a time of major crisis occurs. If it hurts me I am willing to tolerate pain, discomfort, etc. The painkiller will come in the form of knowing I am doing my part to rebuild and restore a great land. I have the guts.

[N8YX]

I thought she wasn't your type? ;)

He may have been referring to Barack.

[KJ3N]

He may have been referring to Barack.

Barack is the First Lady? Who'da thunk it?

[N8YX]

Barack is the First Lady? Who'da thunk it?

This was a trend started by Hillary and Bill. George was too damn ugly to be considered such.

[KK4AMI]

Only if those of us able bodied persons take to the hills. I am getting old. I am not in the best shape as I was when i was younger. I cannot climb as high, run as long or fast, or walk as far as I could when i was younger. Sometimes my knees hurt. But, I am willing to deal with my shortcomings and stay in my city and work as hard as I can and do as much as I can if, God forbid, a time of major crisis occurs. If it hurts me I am willing to tolerate pain, discomfort, etc. The painkiller will come in the form of knowing I am doing my part to rebuild and restore a great land. I have the guts.

Good Grief, we'll leave you one arrow for your bow in case the pain becomes too much :-D

[KC2UGV]

Only if those of us able bodied persons take to the hills. I am getting old. I am not in the best shape as I was when i was younger. I cannot climb as high, run as long or fast, or walk as far as I could when i was younger. Sometimes my knees hurt. But, I am willing to deal with my shortcomings and stay in my city and work as hard as I can and do as much as I can if, God forbid, a time of major crisis occurs. If it hurts me I am willing to tolerate pain, discomfort, etc. The painkiller will come in the form of knowing I am doing my part to rebuild and restore a great land. I have the guts.

That's the reason for building the tribe on the way out... Hopefully, you'll get accepted into a tribe due to some skill you bring to the table.

And, in the case of "end of society"... There is no "Great Land" anymore. It's you, and whatever separates you from your next meal. It'll be time to get rid of the romantic notions of rebuilding society, and just stick to keeping your tribe together, and alive.

[ab1ga]

She's after your children! Michelle Obama Eats Babies!

Finally somebody who realizes "A Modest Proposal" wasn't satire! The First Lady has increased immensely in my estimation.

73,

[NQ6U]

Mmmm Veal!

You ain't had the good stuff until you've tried kinderwurst.

[n2ize]

That's the reason for building the tribe on the way out... Hopefully, you'll get accepted into a tribe due to some skill you bring to the table.

And, in the case of "end of society"... There is no "Great Land" anymore. It's you, and whatever separates you from your next meal. It'll be time to get rid of the romantic notions of rebuilding society, and just stick to keeping your tribe together, and alive.

But your missing the point. Of course if you abandon our cities and "take to the hills" there will be no more "great land". That's why we need to stick to our cities and towns. Besides, the cities and the towns will be the most likely places for survival and the materials to build upon. Sure, it's hard, and at times it may seem hopeless . That is why it takes guts to stay in your city, town, village, hamlet, etc. rather than taking to the hills. I may not be a superman but I have the guts. If, God forbid, that day ever comes I am staying right here in my city.

[n2ize]

You ain't had the good stuff until you've tried kinderwurst.

sausage made from children ? :evil:

[KB3LAZ]

How can anyone prepare for the end of the world ?

By sleeping in a coffin.

[suddenseer]

I thought she wasn't your type? ;)I may be gay, but I know a smoking hot woman when I see one.

[suddenseer]

It is going to take real men to send their wives children tosafer ground while we able bodied men stay behind and devote our time, energy, and pain and suffering to rebuild our cities, our towns, villages, infrastructure, economy, etc. Some of us may die in the process. Some of us may suffer, But many of us will survive. Regardless of which category we fall into we will all be playing an invaluable role by staying behind where we are most needed rather than taking to the hills.

Matter of fact, many of those who take to the hills will find that its not as easy as they thought. During WW2 many Europeans discovered this when they tried to leave their cities and towns for the countryside. Many of them wound up returning.

It's going to take guts, hard work, determination, and pain, but we can do it.Wow, only men can do this?

[n2ize]

Wow, only men can do this?

No, they would be doing their part as well. But their duties and responsibilities would be more of a maternal nature, i.e. taking care of children, nursing of the young, the sick, the injured. The repairs to the infrastructure and/or whatever is needed to get our cities back up and running again. A time of crisis is not a time to worry about gender equality. Everybody is going to have to pitch in in their own way.

[K7SGJ]

It is going to take real men to send their wives children tosafer ground while we able bodied men stay behind and devote our time, energy, and pain and suffering to rebuild our cities, our towns, villages, infrastructure, economy, etc. Some of us may die in the process. Some of us may suffer, But many of us will survive. Regardless of which category we fall into we will all be playing an invaluable role by staying behind where we are most needed rather than taking to the hills.

Matter of fact, many of those who take to the hills will find that its not as easy as they thought. During WW2 many Europeans discovered this when they tried to leave their cities and towns for the countryside. Many of them wound up returning.

It's going to take guts, hard work, determination, and pain, but we can do it.


And history taught the world how well that worked out for millions of people who were rounded up, in their cities, and met a horrible end. If life in this country, or world, became so dire from some kind of collapse or other calamity, I'm not certain what I would do. I would think there would be signs of such an events approach, and I would evaluate my options at that time. Priorities, circumstances, and needs tend to change over time. Besides, I don't have time to obsess over something that very well may never happen, at least in the time I have left. I'd rather spend that time trying to get my fucking tomatoes to grow.

[n2ize]

And history taught the world how well that worked out for millions of people who were rounded up, in their cities, and met a horrible end. If life in this country, or world, became so dire from some kind of collapse or other calamity, I'm not certain what I would do. I would think there would be signs of such an events approach, and I would evaluate my options at that time. Priorities, circumstances, and needs tend to change over time. Besides, I don't have time to obsess over something that very well may never happen, at least in the time I have left. I'd rather spend that time trying to get my fucking tomatoes to grow.

Many of those in Europe who tried to take to the hills found out that it was a fruitless effort. Consider trying to take to the hills here in modern day USA. First of all many of the roadways would be impassible. Public transportation, trains, planes, etc would be needed to deal with emergencies. In short, unless you live in a very sparsely populated area, taking to the hills by car or public transport will likely be impossible. And it is not an easy task to "take to the hills" on foot unless you are conditioned for hours upon hours of daily, strenuous hiking under some of the roughest conditions (i.e. hiking many many miles through heavy deep snow, floods, vast areas of mud that impede movement, crossing rivers, dealing with inclement weather, etc. assuming you don't get injured along the way, not to mention dealing with others who have decided to take to the hills. Then there are the sick, the infirm, the elderly, the very young, people with medical and various health issues who could not take to the hills even if it were possible. Their only chance of survival will be to stay in their cities and, they will need as many able bodied people to help them to survive, to get them the food, medicines and medical care they need to have a chance to survive.

And, to make matters worst, if the crisis were a major war our enemies would like nothing more than for us to abandon our cities and to give up on our society.

[KC2UGV]

But your missing the point. Of course if you abandon our cities and "take to the hills" there will be no more "great land". That's why we need to stick to our cities and towns. Besides, the cities and the towns will be the most likely places for survival and the materials to build upon. Sure, it's hard, and at times it may seem hopeless . That is why it takes guts to stay in your city, town, village, hamlet, etc. rather than taking to the hills. I may not be a superman but I have the guts. If, God forbid, that day ever comes I am staying right here in my city.

Staying in an urban area is unsustainable. There are not enough resources in an urban environment to keep you alive.

[KC2UGV]

And history taught the world how well that worked out for millions of people who were rounded up, in their cities, and met a horrible end. If life in this country, or world, became so dire from some kind of collapse or other calamity, I'm not certain what I would do. I would think there would be signs of such an events approach, and I would evaluate my options at that time. Priorities, circumstances, and needs tend to change over time. Besides, I don't have time to obsess over something that very well may never happen, at least in the time I have left. I'd rather spend that time trying to get my fucking tomatoes to grow.

And getting you tomatoes to grow where you are now is probably one of the best things to do in order to plan :) Once you get the hang of getting food to grow, you don't need to worry about where you'll end up: You have a skill in farming, albeit minimal, but better than nothing.

[n2ize]

Staying in an urban area is unsustainable. There are not enough resources in an urban environment to keep you alive.

Taking to the hills isn't going to work either. Staying in your city is the best course of action. And the most patriotic, if not to your country to your fellow citizens. Mnatter of fact I consider taking to the hills (particularly in a war situation) to be pretty close to treason.

[KC2UGV]

Taking to the hills isn't going to work either. Staying in your city is the best course of action. And the most patriotic, if not to your country to your fellow citizens. Mnatter of fact I consider taking to the hills (particularly in a war situation) to be pretty close to treason.

Well, you worry about patriotism in the face of a collapse of society. I'll worry about living.

[KK4AMI]

And history taught the world how well that worked out for millions of people who were rounded up, in their cities, and met a horrible end. If life in this country, or world, became so dire from some kind of collapse or other calamity, I'm not certain what I would do. I would think there would be signs of such an events approach, and I would evaluate my options at that time. Priorities, circumstances, and needs tend to change over time. Besides, I don't have time to obsess over something that very well may never happen, at least in the time I have left. I'd rather spend that time trying to get my fucking tomatoes to grow.

I love that dog! Can he pick up 20 meters with those ears :lol:

[n2ize]

Well, you worry about patriotism in the face of a collapse of society. I'll worry about living.

Do you really think you are going to be able to "take to the hills" ?? How would you get there ? Do you think the roads are going to be open to you and many many thousands of others doing the same ? Are you going to hike the many miles under possibly brutal conditions ? Will your loved ones be able to do the same ? What about the many who are in need of medicines, medical care, etc. who simply cannot join the strenuous hike to the wilderness. Are we to simply turn our backs on them and let them die ? They are not going to find the things they need out in the hills. And what about the hundreds of thousands of others who will be taking to the hills ? Taking to the hills will only ensure the collapse of society.

My way of thinking is to save and restore society and a working system of governance. That is best accomplished in our existing cities. I am staying right here in the city. To each his own idea but I know my choice is right and, most patriotic.

[KC2UGV]

Do you really think you are going to be able to "take to the hills" ?? How would you get there ?

Standard issue transportation mechanism: Patent leather.


Do you think the roads are going to be open to you and many many thousands of others doing the same ?

Of course not. You do not need to stick to roads. In fact, for my area, following the rail lines would be the most direct route to most locations.


Are you going to hike the many miles under possibly brutal conditions ?

Yes. I am able to cycle 30 miles at a stretch, and my standard loaded pace (Loaded to 40 lbs) is 4 mph. I can get outside of the city within 1.5-2 hours.


Will your loved ones be able to do the same ?

Yes. My immediate family is able to walk an unloaded pace equitable to slightly faster than my loaded pace. Assuming the wife can carry an equitable load as myself, we should be able to make it in 3 hours, with most of what we need by foot.

And, we in Buffalo, always prepare for brutal weather conditions.


What about the many who are in need of medicines, medical care, etc. who simply cannot join the strenuous hike to the wilderness. Are we to simply turn our backs on them and let them die ?

If they are in dire need of medicines, it's only a matter of time before they die. Needed medicines will run out in no less than 14 days, since our pharma industry is set up just like the oil industry: always on the cusp of shortage. Medical care? Most medical care can be done in rudimentary fashion. Anything exotic, the person is as good as dead already, since there wont be exotic medical care available anyways.


They are not going to find the things they need out in the hills. And what about the hundreds of thousands of others who will be taking to the hills ? Taking to the hills will only ensure the collapse of society.


I honestly doubt hundreds of thousands will a) Get the thought of running for the hills, b) Be able to make it. And, since population density in Rural America is so low, it wont be an issue.

Remember, society has already collapsed. Taking to the hills is the only way to ensure your survival.



My way of thinking is to save and restore society and a working system of governance. That is best accomplished in our existing cities. I am staying right here in the city. To each his own idea but I know my choice is right and, most patriotic.

You go for that. I'll be alive. Good luck trying to grow your food in downtown Manhattan. And, I'm not sure what kind of game you'll find there either. And, hopefully, bubonic plague wont catch up with you.

[KK4AMI]

Oh you can come out to the country, but you better have something to trade :) You ain't squatin' on the private property of us uncultured country people without paying. Touch my garden or chickens and I'll shoot you. Use to be cities manufactured and the Country provided food. Since you city fellers quit manufacturing, we ain't got nothin' to trade. I sure as heck don't need financial advisers, broadway actors or computer geeks. We go back to being an agrarian society and having the power!:evil:

[KC2UGV]

Oh you can come out to the country, but you better have something to trade :) You ain't squatin' on the private property of us uncultured country people without paying. Touch my garden or chickens and I'll shoot you. Use to be cities manufactured and the Country provided food. Since you city fellers quit manufacturing, we ain't got nothin' to trade. I sure as heck don't need financial advisers, broadway actors or computer geeks. We go back to being an agrarian society and having the power!:evil:

Rest assured, in the event of a societal collapse, most of the people out in the country will be dead too. And there's no such thing as "squatting" anymore: Force keeps your "property".

If you have guns, other tribes have people. With 200 rounds, you can't defend yourself forever.

[n2ize]

Remember, society has already collapsed. Taking to the hills is the only way to ensure your survival.


No, its the only way to ensure demise. Society will only collapse if we let it. taking to the hills borders on treason/



You go for that. I'll be alive. Good luck trying to grow your food in downtown Manhattan. And, I'm not sure what kind of game you'll find there either. And, hopefully, bubonic plague wont catch up with you.

You'd be surprised how many things there are to eat in the typical vacant lot. Plus the cities will still be stocked with the infrastructure and the means to jumpstart industrialized society.

If a catastrophe is so bad that rebuilding our cities and towns is impossible then it is doubtful you will find game in the hills.


If they are in dire need of medicines, it's only a matter of time before they die. Needed medicines will run out in no less than 14 days, since our pharma industry is set up just like the oil industry: always on the cusp of shortage. Medical care? Most medical care can be done in rudimentary fashion. Anything exotic, the person is as good as dead already, since there wont be exotic medical care available anyways.


Not if we are there to help. Sure, many will die, along with many healthy able bodied persons. But, many more as assured to die if we don't stay in our cities and work our asses off to rebuild and get things running again. Frankly, I am not about to abandon the elderly and the infirm. I am going to stay in the cities and struggle as hard as I can to help give them the medical care, the medicines, and whatever they need to survive and save as many as I can. Some will live, some won't. But if we all take to the hills we guarantee their deaths.


Standard issue transportation mechanism: Patent leather.
Yes. I am able to cycle 30 miles at a stretch, and my standard loaded pace (Loaded to 40 lbs) is 4 mph. I can get outside of the city within 1.5-2 hours.
Yes. My immediate family is able to walk an unloaded pace equitable to slightly faster than my loaded pace. Assuming the wife can carry an equitable load as myself, we should be able to make it in 3 hours, with most of what we need by foot.
And, we in Buffalo, always prepare for brutal weather conditions.


God bless that you are healthy and able bodied. All the more reason that , if , God Forbid, a crisis were to happen Buffalo needs people like you to say and rebuild Buffalo and protect and increase the chances of surviival of it's less fortunate citizens. I am not as able bodies as you are but if I lived in Buffalo I would remain there and struggle as hard as I can to save Buffalo. Ditto for NYC, Yonkers, or even a small town in rural South Carolina or Oklahoma. I would stay and struggle to save my city / town/ community.

[n2ize]

Oh you can come out to the country, but you better have something to trade :) You ain't squatin' on the private property of us uncultured country people without paying. Touch my garden or chickens and I'll shoot you. Use to be cities manufactured and the Country provided food. Since you city fellers quit manufacturing, we ain't got nothin' to trade. I sure as heck don't need financial advisers, broadway actors or computer geeks. We go back to being an agrarian society and having the power!:evil:

Which is understandable. I wouldn't expect rural people to sacrifice under severe circumstances.. It doesn't do them any good if they save the life of town people but sacrifice themselves in the process. , assuming you can survive a crisis you will need computer geeks, medical people, engineers, etc. to help rebuild and to re-establish a nation. Each city, town and rural community is going to have to struggle to survive amidst limited resources. Some may make it and many may not. But, once we are secure in the survival of our individual communities we will eventually have to reach out to help one another as a nation. This will include both urban dweller and rural person working to protect and fortify one another to rebuild a nation. If we are to survive we need to discard the differences and rivalry between the big city and small town and realize we are a nation of people. Even nowadays, most of the issues of importance are common to both the city person and the rural person. In my travels I have found we have far more in common than we have differences. most sincere rural people are pissed off about the same issues that I am.

[KK4AMI]

Rest assured, in the event of a societal collapse, most of the people out in the country will be dead too. And there's no such thing as "squatting" anymore: Force keeps your "property".

If you have guns, other tribes have people. With 200 rounds, you can't defend yourself forever.

Why are you limiting me to 200 rounds? My Dillion Progressive and Ponsness Warren 900 Elite can manufacture about 200 rounds an hour. Ohh, maybe you meant 200 rounds a minute. I suppose I could shim the ol' class III back to that :)

[KK4AMI]

No, its the only way to ensure demise. Society will only collapse if we let it. taking to the hills borders on treason/



You'd be surprised how many things there are to eat in the typical vacant lot. Plus the cities will still be stocked with the infrastructure and the means to jumpstart industrialized society.

If a catastrophe is so bad that rebuilding our cities and towns is impossible then it is doubtful you will find game in the hills.



Not if we are there to help. Sure, many will die, along with many healthy able bodied persons. But, many more as assured to die if we don't stay in our cities and work our asses off to rebuild and get things running again. Frankly, I am not about to abandon the elderly and the infirm. I am going to stay in the cities and struggle as hard as I can to help give them the medical care, the medicines, and whatever they need to survive and save as many as I can. Some will live, some won't. But if we all take to the hills we guarantee their deaths.



God bless that you are healthy and able bodied. All the more reason that , if , God Forbid, a crisis were to happen Buffalo needs people like you to say and rebuild Buffalo and protect and increase the chances of surviival of it's less fortunate citizens. I am not as able bodies as you are but if I lived in Buffalo I would remain there and struggle as hard as I can to save Buffalo. Ditto for NYC, Yonkers, or even a small town in rural South Carolina or Oklahoma. I would stay and struggle to save my city / town/ community.


If nothing is being manufactured, shipped or imported. I fail to see what purpose a city serves. We would do better to disperse city populations throughout the whole nation to assure the peoples chance of survival and not the cities.

[K7SGJ]

Why are you limiting me to 200 rounds? My Dillion Progressive and Ponsness Warren 900 Elite can manufacture about 200 rounds an hour. Ohh, maybe you meant 200 rounds a minute. I suppose I could shim the ol' class III back to that :)


Got the Dillon XL650. I love it. Does about 800 RPM. Got to tour their plan, which was cool. Got to play with all kinds of neat stuff, but they wouldn't let me play with any of the Dillon girls. The bastids.

[K7SGJ]

And getting you tomatoes to grow where you are now is probably one of the best things to do in order to plan :) Once you get the hang of getting food to grow, you don't need to worry about where you'll end up: You have a skill in farming, albeit minimal, but better than nothing.

We have a couple of good sized gardens, now. The only problem with the maters is the weather will dip below 30 F without much warning. It was supposed to stay above 40 the other night but went to 27. Bye bye you little red orbs of goodness. Got to cover them tonight as they are predicting mid 30 wich will go to high 20s here.

I'm thinking of taking a half or even a whole acre to farm our food in. Ground prep is the big problem here. Big BIG rocks. Some I can't even budge with the tractor. Can you say C-4? sure you can.

[K7SGJ]

I love that dog! Can he pick up 20 meters with those ears :lol:


Why yes, he sure can; and, with proper orientaion, can do EME. Actually, that's my daughters dog when he was little. He turned out to be a beautiful brindle color. His a neat dog, too.

[K7SGJ]

Well, you worry about patriotism in the face of a collapse of society. I'll worry about living.


Me too. I am the worlds biggest patriot, but if things get that bad, the family and I are outa here. Initially, the only contact I want with others are like mined people we find along the way. As far as getting to the hills, all I have to do is step off the porch, and I'm there. The absolute last place I would want to be, is in a large city, town, burg, or what have you. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad once the assholes have killed each other off, and the buzzards have finished cleaning up.

[KC2UGV]

No, its the only way to ensure demise. Society will only collapse if we let it. taking to the hills borders on treason/


In a situation of societal collapse, the only patriotism you owe is to your tribe.



You'd be surprised how many things there are to eat in the typical vacant lot. Plus the cities will still be stocked with the infrastructure and the means to jumpstart industrialized society.


You'd be surprised at how many calories you burn in "survival mode". An example: A deployed soldier (Male) burns 3500-4500 calories per day.



If a catastrophe is so bad that rebuilding our cities and towns is impossible then it is doubtful you will find game in the hills.


Not true. A simple viral outbreak will leave many humans dead, and not a whole lot of wild animals.



Not if we are there to help. Sure, many will die, along with many healthy able bodied persons. But, many more as assured to die if we don't stay in our cities and work our asses off to rebuild and get things running again. Frankly, I am not about to abandon the elderly and the infirm. I am going to stay in the cities and struggle as hard as I can to help give them the medical care, the medicines, and whatever they need to survive and save as many as I can. Some will live, some won't. But if we all take to the hills we guarantee their deaths.


Society is what a group of people build. It doesn't have to be in the urban areas.



God bless that you are healthy and able bodied. All the more reason that , if , God Forbid, a crisis were to happen Buffalo needs people like you to say and rebuild Buffalo and protect and increase the chances of surviival of it's less fortunate citizens. I am not as able bodies as you are but if I lived in Buffalo I would remain there and struggle as hard as I can to save Buffalo. Ditto for NYC, Yonkers, or even a small town in rural South Carolina or Oklahoma. I would stay and struggle to save my city / town/ community.


Sorry, no dice. I don't care about "My country" in the case of societal breakdown. It's my tribe.


Why are you limiting me to 200 rounds? My Dillion Progressive and Ponsness Warren 900 Elite can manufacture about 200 rounds an hour. Ohh, maybe you meant 200 rounds a minute. I suppose I could shim the ol' class III back to that :)

The point is: You ammunition supply is not unlimited. Case in point, how much ammo do you have on hand right now? Now, how much do you have supplies to make?

How long do you think that will hold out for?


Me too. I am the worlds biggest patriot, but if things get that bad, the family and I are outa here. Initially, the only contact I want with others are like mined people we find along the way. As far as getting to the hills, all I have to do is step off the porch, and I'm there. The absolute last place I would want to be, is in a large city, town, burg, or what have you. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad once the assholes have killed each other off, and the buzzards have finished cleaning up.


You've got it :)

[kf0rt]

Got the Dillon XL650. I love it. Does about 800 RPM. Got to tour their plan, which was cool. Got to play with all kinds of neat stuff, but they wouldn't let me play with any of the Dillon girls. The bastids.

That'd be about 800 RPH, right?

[n2ize]

If nothing is being manufactured, shipped or imported. I fail to see what purpose a city serves. We would do better to disperse city populations throughout the whole nation to assure the peoples chance of survival and not the cities.

The whole idea is to restart all these things. Do you really think it would happen by everyone taking to the hills ?

[n2ize]

In a situation of societal collapse, the only patriotism you owe is to your tribe.

And your tribe is in your home town or city.




You'd be surprised at how many calories you burn in "survival mode". An example: A deployed soldier (Male) burns 3500-4500 calories per day.

All the more reason why most people are not going to survive the long and rigorous trek into the hills.



Not true. A simple viral outbreak will leave many humans dead, and not a whole lot of wild animals.

There are a whole lot of people and not a whole lot of hill space within walking distance and not a whole lot of animals to hunt.




Society is what a group of people build. It doesn't have to be in the urban areas.

But it makes the most sense to create society in our existing cities and bring our cities back and functional.

I don;t know about the rest of you but in a crisis I will stay in my city.



Sorry, no dice. I don't care about "My country" in the case of societal breakdown. It's my tribe.

To me that borders on treason. I feel a sense of loyalty to my community and to repair my community.

[KK4AMI]

That'd be about 800 RPH, right?

I assumed that is what he meant. 800 rds per minute would result in severe carpal tunnel in my case :)
Don't think you could even motorize them that fast.

[KK4AMI]

The whole idea is to restart all these things. Do you really think it would happen by everyone taking to the hills ?

Cities will become great places to strip manufactured goods out of, kinda like a flea market. Cities are historical anachronisms that could not support themselves in a good economy let alone a collapsed economy. If we go back to an agrarian society, we will need people to work the fields and transport food around the country. Can't afford to walk to the city from the farms that have jobs. I don't really see the purpose for a city if it isn't a center for manufacturing, trade or shipping.

[W5GA]

To me that borders on treason. I feel a sense of loyalty to my community and to repair my community.
In order to repair your community, you have to be alive. Staying in a city any longer than it takes to throw stuff in your car and get out would almost guarantee the opposite. Corey is spot on, your only loyalty is to your tribe...or you immediate family, if you will. At some point, Darwin will make the cities fit for habitation again, but it'll take some time.
This is common sense, John. If you're in an area with fewer people, the less likely it will be that you'll run into someone that wants whatever it is that you have, and is willing to take it by force, necessary or not. And that "someone" may, and probably will be, a large group (20 or more) that has decided that they will survive via terrorism as an end unto itself. One person won't stop them.

As to taking to the hills...there's already a bunch of us in those hills. If you decide my patch of dirt is to your liking, we may have an issue.

[W2NAP]

And your tribe is in your home town or city.


no true. my tribe is my friends and people I know and like. a lot of the people in my city i wouldn't waste a good pint of piss on them to put them out of they was on fire.

[KC2UGV]

And your tribe is in your home town or city.


No, it's not.



All the more reason why most people are not going to survive the long and rigorous trek into the hills.


You can survive 40 days without food. However, if you do not have a steady supply by day 15, you will begin the downward spiral.



There are a whole lot of people and not a whole lot of hill space within walking distance and not a whole lot of animals to hunt.


You'd be shocked at how close you are to being outside... Map a straight line out. NYC (and it's boroughs) are only 10 miles radius...



But it makes the most sense to create society in our existing cities and bring our cities back and functional.

I don;t know about the rest of you but in a crisis I will stay in my city.


My point is: The city isn't sustainable without outside inputs. And, in the case of collapse, inputs will be hampered for many years



To me that borders on treason. I feel a sense of loyalty to my community and to repair my community.

Go for it.


In order to repair your community, you have to be alive. Staying in a city any longer than it takes to throw stuff in your car and get out would almost guarantee the opposite. Corey is spot on, your only loyalty is to your tribe...or you immediate family, if you will. At some point, Darwin will make the cities fit for habitation again, but it'll take some time.
This is common sense, John. If you're in an area with fewer people, the less likely it will be that you'll run into someone that wants whatever it is that you have, and is willing to take it by force, necessary or not. And that "someone" may, and probably will be, a large group (20 or more) that has decided that they will survive via terrorism as an end unto itself. One person won't stop them.

As to taking to the hills...there's already a bunch of us in those hills. If you decide my patch of dirt is to your liking, we may have an issue.

Well, your last statement might be true (It is), and only by force can you keep what you have. I have no romantic notions about property laws in the event of collapse: Take and keep resources by force. Which is why you need to also build your tribe as quickly as possible, to better secure resources.

[W5GA]

Which is why you need to also build your tribe as quickly as possible, to better secure resources.
Absolutely correct. I always tell the dolts whose only plan is heading to the hills...if you haven't talked to your neighbors in those hills, and gotten them into your circle, you are going to die. No person is an island, and we all have to sleep.

[KC2UGV]

Absolutely correct. I always tell the dolts whose only plan is heading to the hills...if you haven't talked to your neighbors in those hills, and gotten them into your circle, you are going to die. No person is an island, and we all have to sleep.

You don't need the people in the hills in your circle (It helps). You just need enough force to take it. Or, good negotiation skills, and resources.

[Jeff K1NSS]

How can anyone prepare for the end of the world ?

Well, it's more like prepositioning your End of the World Tailgate Party supplies.. I always gave the Unthinkable alot of thought. In fourth grade I volunteered for Atomic Window Duty. That wasn't the job descripton, but it involved either opening or closing the big classroom windows - I forget which - with one of those cool poles with the little hook on the end. When the air raid siren went off and everybody ducked and covered, I got to play the bigshot with the pole.Our windows looked out on the playground and I thought it was cool that I might see the swings melt when the Rooskies dropped the big one.

[n2ize]

No, it's not.



You can survive 40 days without food. However, if you do not have a steady supply by day 15, you will begin the downward spiral.



You'd be shocked at how close you are to being outside... Map a straight line out. NYC (and it's boroughs) are only 10 miles radius...



My point is: The city isn't sustainable without outside inputs. And, in the case of collapse, inputs will be hampered for many years



Go for it.



Well, your last statement might be true (It is), and only by force can you keep what you have. I have no romantic notions about property laws in the event of collapse: Take and keep resources by force. Which is why you need to also build your tribe as quickly as possible, to better secure resources.

Do you really think if some major crisis happened you are going to join the "head for the hills" fraternity and survive ? Sorry, the only chance we have is for everyone to stay in their respective community (i,e, city, town, village, farm land, etc.) and get their communities running again. This is by no means easy and will be a struggle. many of us may not even survive. The quicker the farming community, the major urban community, the middle america communities get back on track and begin interacting again the sooner things will get back to normal. Heading for the hills with your tribe will only assure that things will never recover

[KC2UGV]

Do you really think if some major crisis happened you are going to join the "head for the hills" fraternity and survive ?

Yes. And, it aint no fraternity. It's pure survival.


Sorry, the only chance we have is for everyone to stay in their respective community (i,e, city, town, village, farm land, etc.) and get their communities running again.

... or build new communities.


This is by no means easy and will be a struggle. many of us may not even survive. The quicker the farming community, the major urban community, the middle america communities get back on track and begin interacting again the sooner things will get back to normal. Heading for the hills with your tribe will only assure that things will never recover

In the event of a societal collapse, it will be many generations before any semblance of "America" ever shows it's face. How do you think society was initially built? By tribes building stable communities.

[n2ize]

You'd be shocked at how close you are to being outside... Map a straight line out. NYC (and it's boroughs) are only 10 miles radius...


And do you know what lies just outside those boroughs in the "hills" ? Hundreds of suburban communities consisting of densely populated towns, cities, and villiages with hundreds of thousands of people, cars, roadways, etc. You have Jersey, Long Island, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess counties,... all heavily populated counties. Not to mention Connecticut, Rhode island, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, etc. The only true remote "hills" you'll find are maybe up in the Adirondacks which is extremely rugged, has brutal winters, is not really suitable for farming and which I doubt those living there will be looking forward to accommodating the "tribes" from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, Putnam, Westchester, Rochester, Utica, Albany, Buffalo, etc. Yeah, there are a lot of able bodied people down here who can readily spring northward with their "tribes".

Face it, in a major crisis the only chance you have is to get your community running again and get the communities interacting and providing for one another so we can rebuild the economy and the society and the nation. If you live in Buffalo why not stay in Buffalo and bring Buffalo back and make it live again. If I lived there i sure as heck would. We need to be proud of our communities, wherever they may be.

[KC2UGV]

And do you know what lies just outside those boroughs in the "hills" ? Hundreds of suburban communities consisting of densely populated towns, cities, and villiages with hundreds of thousands of people, cars, roadways, etc. You have Jersey, Long Island, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess counties,... all heavily populated counties. Not to mention Connecticut, Rhode island, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, etc. The only true remote "hills" you'll find are maybe up in the Adirondacks which is extremely rugged, has brutal winters, is not really suitable for farming and which I doubt those living there will be looking forward to accommodating the "tribes" from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, Putnam, Westchester, Rochester, Utica, Albany, Buffalo, etc. Yeah, there are a lot of able bodied people down here who can readily spring northward with their "tribes".


Quickly looking at NYC on Google Earth, I see (Within 10 miles) 3 giant areas of sparse population: New Canaan, West Orange, and Oyster Bay.

Will the survivors there be welcoming? Maybe. But, probably not. You'll need a sizable force to take resources, and defend them.



Face it, in a major crisis the only chance you have is to get your community running again and get the communities interacting and providing for one another so we can rebuild the economy and the society and the nation. If you live in Buffalo why not stay in Buffalo and bring Buffalo back and make it live again. If I lived there i sure as heck would. We need to be proud of our communities, wherever they may be.

Because major population centers will be a source of plague, violence, and death. I'll take starting over on Grand Island, or Squaw Island. Or, Wheatfield, or one of the many, large, open, rural regions here.

[n2ize]

Quickly looking at NYC on Google Earth, I see (Within 10 miles) 3 giant areas of sparse population: New Canaan, West Orange, and Oyster Bay.

Hah... New Caanan is "sparse" but massive in population and surrounded by major populated areas. Oyster Bay LI ?? Is located on densely populated Long Island. Good luck getting off of it or surviving in it in a major crisis. If you are in LI your best bet might be to head east towards Montauk or Rhode Island or grab a boat and head seaward. Ditto for West orange. The only true remote areas are in upstate New York. namely the Adirondack regions and the Adirondack riflemen (among the best in the world) will be well prepared to stop invading tribes from taking their communities.



Will the survivors there be welcoming? Maybe. But, probably not. You'll need a sizable force to take resources, and defend them.



Because major population centers will be a source of plague, violence, and death. I'll take starting over on Grand Island, or Squaw Island. Or, Wheatfield, or one of the many, large, open, rural regions here.

All this can be avoided by not re-inventing the wheel. It's already been invented. Let's just fix it should the need arise. And lets do our best to prevent the need from arising.

Another thing about this area is, we are close to the sea. The sea is a great resource for food and travel and survival. Why would I head for the hills when I am near the sea ?

[K7SGJ]

And your tribe is in your home town or city.





All the more reason why most people are not going to survive the long and rigorous trek into the hills.




There are a whole lot of people and not a whole lot of hill space within walking distance and not a whole lot of animals to hunt.





But it makes the most sense to create society in our existing cities and bring our cities back and functional.

I don;t know about the rest of you but in a crisis I will stay in my city.




To me that borders on treason. I feel a sense of loyalty to my community and to repair my community.


Shit, man, there isn't any real catastrophe at the moment, and most of the cities America can't function as it is. You go right ahead and stay in your "patriotic" city, with all those other "patriotic" people who only want you for a meal; and don't forget your "patriotic" leaders, and your "patriotic" politicians who would sell your ass to the devil on a good day. That's not for me. I'll take my chances in the wild where I can't be cornered, and pretty well know who my enemies are.

[K7SGJ]

That'd be about 800 RPH, right?


Good catch. I always wondered if anybody ever read any of the shit I posted. You and one more will make two.

[KK4AMI]

So what we are really saying here is don't bother putin' a 500 Watt radio in your 4 Wheel. Go with a permanent 2Kw in the house and stay put?

[W5GA]

So what we are really saying here is don't bother putin' a 500 Watt radio in your 4 Wheel. Go with a permanent 2Kw in the house and stay put?
that's something you'd have to determine for yourself. What kind of access is there to your house, etc etc.

[n2ize]

Shit, man, there isn't any real catastrophe at the moment, and most of the cities America can't function as it is.

Actually, compared to the rest of the country most major cities are functioning quite well. The GDP and economy of NYC alone is the largest in the USA and the second largest in the world.



You go right ahead and stay in your "patriotic" city, with all those other "patriotic" people who only want you for a meal; and don't forget your "patriotic" leaders, and your "patriotic" politicians who would sell your ass to the devil on a good day. That's not for me. I'll take my chances in the wild where I can't be cornered, and pretty well know who my enemies are.

Go ahead and take to the hills. If you really feel that way then why wait for a calamity ? Why not take to the hills now ? I'll stay in my city and work to help people and rebuild America. I've got the guts to do it. Then again, it does take guts to strike out and live in the hills I suppose. The best course of action will be determined by whatever it is that happens If , for example, rising oceans engulf a city the only choice may be to take to the hills. Of course God forbid, let's hope that we never have to face conditions where we have to decide between staying or heading for the hills.

Leaders and politicians have nothing to do with patriotism. Patriotism is in our hearts and minds, It supersedes politics and politicians.

[KC2UGV]

Actually, compared to the rest of the country most major cities are functioning quite well. The GDP and economy of NYC alone is the largest in the USA and the second largest in the world.


By and large, the only thing produced from NYC is financial instruments; which would be worthless as a product in the case of a societal collapse.



Go ahead and take to the hills. If you really feel that way then why wait for a calamity ? Why not take to the hills now ? I'll stay in my city and work to help people and rebuild America. I've got the guts to do it. Then again, it does take guts to strike out and live in the hills I suppose. The best course of action will be determined by whatever it is that happens If , for example, rising oceans engulf a city the only choice may be to take to the hills. Of course God forbid, let's hope that we never have to face conditions where we have to decide between staying or heading for the hills.

Leaders and politicians have nothing to do with patriotism. Patriotism is in our hearts and minds, It supersedes politics and politicians.

John, I have to preface, my notions are those in the event of a complete societal collapse, not just catastrophes. You've got to get it out of your head that there is an "America" if society collapses. There isn't. And, if you stick to the romantic notions of patriotic duty; you'll quickly become a corpse once the first wave of resource raiders come by to take what they need.

[K7SGJ]

<snip> Go ahead and take to the hills. If you really feel that way then why wait for a calamity ? Why not take to the hills now ? I'll stay in my city and work to help people and rebuild America. I've got the guts to do it. Then again, it does take guts to strike out and live in the hills I suppose. The best course of action will be determined by whatever it is that happens If , for example, rising oceans engulf a city the only choice may be to take to the hills. Of course God forbid, let's hope that we never have to face conditions where we have to decide between staying or heading for the hills.<snip>




For me, the bottom line is I really don't know how I would act or what I would do. I'd like to think I know what I would do, but it would depend on the nature of the event, my ability to react, and a whole shitwad of the other factors. In order to give you an accurate answer to the question, I'll have to wait for said event. Until then I can only hypothesize. I daresay that you would probably be surprised at what you think you would do and what you actually would do.

[KK4AMI]

I would probably stay put until the pressure of humanity got so severe it pushed me out. I have a generator, buried 350 gallon propane tank and grill for cooking, plus a well and septic. There are plenty of fields to plant. There are enough trees around to cover all the firewood I need. Since my property butts up to a cattle farm, I'd have a source of employment with the farmer and take meat in payment.

My house is on a hill top about 3/4 mile off a State Route. The driveway is long enough that you can't see the house from the road. I would probably put camouflage on the driveway to cover up the entrance to hide from refugee traffic.

If I had the money I would add cisterns under my gutters to collect water, a wind generator and a fuel storage tank.

[KK4AMI]

Heck, I forgot my best survival tool. My wife is the Chief Nurse of an ER in our local hospital. Now that takes care of most of my medical issues, plus the hospital will keep running even if she gets payed in chickens and eggs!

[KC2UGV]

I would probably stay put until the pressure of humanity got so severe it pushed me out. I have a generator, buried 350 gallon propane tank and grill for cooking, plus a well and septic. There are plenty of fields to plant. There are enough trees around to cover all the firewood I need. Since my property butts up to a cattle farm, I'd have a source of employment with the farmer and take meat in payment.

My house is on a hill top about 3/4 mile off a State Route. The driveway is long enough that you can't see the house from the road. I would probably put camouflage on the driveway to cover up the entrance to hide from refugee traffic.

If I had the money I would add cisterns under my gutters to collect water, a wind generator and a fuel storage tank.

I think you got a good location staked out already. As for the cisterns, you just need some plywood, some 2x4, and plastic sheeting to make the cisterns.


Heck, I forgot my best survival tool. My wife is the Chief Nurse of an ER in our local hospital. Now that takes care of most of my medical issues, plus the hospital will keep running even if she gets payed in chickens and eggs!


+1000. Unless your wife gets caught in the hospital at the time (Don't discount that).

[K7SGJ]

Heck, I forgot my best survival tool. My wife is the Chief Nurse of an ER in our local hospital. Now that takes care of most of my medical issues, plus the hospital will keep running even if she gets payed in chickens and eggs!


https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRa_9mgEeKuzJeW-9zQZL4AhDkXcj5M9adnl2KbZqrWVCnV56tb


Won'tcha be my neighbor?

[KK4AMI]

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRa_9mgEeKuzJeW-9zQZL4AhDkXcj5M9adnl2KbZqrWVCnV56tb


Won'tcha be my neighbor?

Well OK, but the Mississippi River and that Sweater are going to make one heck of a fence between us !

[KK4AMI]

I'll go up to the Hospital and Dig her out if I have to. Oh as a last resort, I'm one of those idiots that bought 1.5 million Iraqi Dinar. Everyone told me I was nuts the Iraqi Dinar would never go up in value. Well I showed them. Soon all currencies wil be worth as much as the Iraqi Dinar, hah! Then 1 million dollars is just as good as 1 million dinar! (sarcasm)

[n2ize]

Heck, I forgot my best survival tool. My wife is the Chief Nurse of an ER in our local hospital. Now that takes care of most of my medical issues, plus the hospital will keep running even if she gets payed in chickens and eggs!

So then you are saying what I am saying. It would make more sense to stay right where you are rather than get a "tribe" and take over someone else's area.

Likewise, for those in cities it makes the most sense to stay in your city where you are needed. In WW2 many Europeans tried to take to the hills on foot but found they couldn't get very far.Many returned to their cities and helped to rebuild them and jump start things.

[KK4AMI]

So then you are saying what I am saying. It would make more sense to stay right where you are rather than get a "tribe" and take over someone else's area.

Likewise, for those in cities it makes the most sense to stay in your city where you are needed. In WW2 many Europeans tried to take to the hills on foot but found they couldn't get very far.Many returned to their cities and helped to rebuild them and jump start things.

Stay home if you can, but can you assure yourself access to food, shelter, water, sewage or heat. Remember, if you are expecting to get a sub from the corner deli it might cost a wheel barrel of money, or the stores maybe closed. The water and sewer guys maybe gone in a search for food, so be prepared to drink rain water and poop on the streets.

The Germans during WWII were totally broke. They stayed in the Cities (My Grandparents) because the US brought in supplies, plus the Germans were willing to eat a lot of things Americans would never touch.

If the US economy goes south, I doubt there will be anybody to feed us. We fall, then so does the rest of the world.

[n2ize]

By and large, the only thing produced from NYC is financial instruments; which would be worthless as a product in the case of a societal collapse.

Assuming everything isn't completely destroyed or swallowed up by the ocean there are also a lot of existing resources. Buildings which can be used to house and shelter people. Transportation equipment. Vast stores of medical supplies. A tremendous body of human resources and know how. Easy access to water and portals. Then lets not forget the vast array of surrounding suburbs and smaller cities stretching to the tip of Long Island, thru Connecticut on up to Boston, due north and west and south through Jersey.

The vast amount of human and other resources is immeasurable. And, think of it this way. If all those people suddenly decided to take to the hills there would be no hills left to take to. People are going to have to stay in their respective cities and surrounding towns. Sure, the one thing lacking from the major urban centres is farming and food production. But the acquisition of food can be worked out over time as we slowly but surely begin to re-establish and differentiate functionally and then integrate the various functionality to re-establish things like trade. At first it may start simply, perhaps providing people with scientific, architectural or medical know how or, perhaps medical supplies and in return getting some crops or meat. Eventually perhaps the re-establishment of some form of currency.




John, I have to preface, my notions are those in the event of a complete societal collapse, not just catastrophes. You've got to get it out of your head that there is an "America" if society collapses. There isn't. And, if you stick to the romantic notions of patriotic duty; you'll quickly become a corpse once the first wave of resource raiders come by to take what they need.

A complete societal collapse is unlikely. However, there will always be a realization of what a society is and what it can accomplish and there will be a desire to re-establish some form of functional society. No, it wouldn't be easy or comfortable. It may be quite painful and many will die along the way. No matter how you look at it it will be a struggle. I mean what do you do when my gang of uncouth, ruthless, nomadic bikers come through town...

[KK4AMI]

Don't worry, I told you I'd keep a spare bedroom open for you. You'all come see us anytime, we'll leave the light on!

[KK4AMI]

Remember since I'm a scared old white man on pension, the disaster I'm most worried by is Hyperinflation

http://moneytipcentral.com/inflation-in-america-what-will-hyperinflation-look-like

[n2ize]

Don't worry, I told you I'd keep a spare bedroom open for you. You'all come see us anytime, we'll leave the light on!

Aw gee... thanks. :)

[K7SGJ]

Don't worry, I told you I'd keep a spare bedroom open for you. You'all come see us anytime, we'll leave the light on!


Yeah, but did you tell him WHAT else lives in that room?

[W2NAP]

Don't worry, I told you I'd keep a spare bedroom open for you. You'all come see us anytime, we'll leave the light on!

Motel 6 eh?