70% effective solar cells ( now 17%)

[PA5COR]

Amolf ( FOM Institute AMOLF is one of the research laboratories of the Foundation for Fundamental Research on Matter (FOM (http://www.fom.nl/)), part of the Netherlands Organisation for Scientific Research (NWO (http://www.nwo.nl/)).) developped a new way for making solar cells much thinner and up to 70% effectiviness.
http://www.amolf.nl/news/detailpage/article/light-management-leads-to-ultra-efficient-solar-cells//chash/7ece18f9a69a891cddf38b40498927a1/

Might be of interest for us too ;)

[KC2UGV]

So, what is the "now 17%"? Current technology?

FWIW, I was reading about something like this, but it was a way to make the cell cheaper, by using mirrors to focus a large amount of light into a tiny cell.

But, at any rate, we need to ignore solar power, and stick with burning Arab oil..

[PA5COR]

More detailed story about the build up and the how they do it.http://www.ecn.nl/news/newsletter-en/2010/june-2010/solar-cells-on-foil/

This will make solar cells cheap, less as 1/2 the price of ordinary cells used now and using a lot less material.
Max efficiency with standard cells is about 35 & theoretically, this is in practise never made, 17 - 20% for the best quality is what is made now.

This will make it cheaper and less surface needs to be covered to get your electricity out.Electricity use here is on a downward spiral, for the 8th month the used energy from energy producers was lower as before, more people use more energy efficient household equipment and get solar cells to produce their own electricity, or part of it.

Electricity producers working together with other firms now put in the market a system that can be used on any house, delivers electricity and you get that partly back on your bill, the rest is used to pay the installation in 15 years time.
Less losses in the infra structure and less produced waste.
P.S. we burn partly our own oil out of our fields as well natural gas in over abundance found here ( nice export article).
64% of the new electricity production in Europe is now from green renewable sources.:)

[KC2UGV]

This is the technology I saw:
http://smalltechnology.net/micro-dot-solar-cells-yield-41-percent-efficiency/

[PA5COR]

Seems the 41% is surpassed by the 70% and cheap costs of the new cells.
Looking good for solar these new developments, getting 700 watts out of a square meter looks fine to me, just needs 7 or 8 of those to supply a house with 100+% energy and release the oversupply in the grid.

[W2NAP]

cheep? how cheep is cheep? in actuall price?

[PA5COR]

Will have to wait for the actual prices yet, but since th production process is quite straight forward and automated, the use of materials small, they expect 1/2 the price as the normal solar cells cost now.
What you buy now has about 20% efect, so 200 watt out of the 100 to 1100 watt per square meter in sunlight.
That will go to 700 out of 1000 watt, and produce good energy even when its overcast, the thinner layer will be more effective too there.

[NQ6U]

No offense intended, Cor, but there have been many announcements similar to this in the past and few of them have ever actually turned into an actual product so I reserve judgement. In other words, I'll believe it when I see it.

[PA5COR]

No offense taken, i just report what i saw in the news.
But tthe research is partly granted by the Dutch Government, they demand results for the Euro's spend and if a new product is feasable they will push for production and profit for paying back the grant and some.
California Institute of Technology is also involved.

[KC2UGV]

California Institute of Technology is also involved.



Godless liberal commies...

[n2ize]

This winter so far solar panels would have worked quite well here since it was perfectly clear blue skies, sunny and warm all winter with nary any snow or ice. But they won;t work very well on a more normal winter, when its overcast almost every day and the panels are covered with a heavy layer of ice and snow for weeks on end. The other issue with solar panels is that I am on a relatively small property and installing solar panels would require me to cut down all my trees if I were to expect them to work well during the summer months when we are normally shrouded in dense tree shade. I've got one Zelkova tree out back that is rapidly overtaking the whole property. The tree is so dense it blocks the sky completely. I have stood under it during summer cloudbursts and hardly got a drop of rain to hit me. .It's like a solid dome over the property. So I guess grid power is the only way to go here.

[KC2UGV]

This winter so far solar panels would have worked quite well here since it was perfectly clear blue skies, sunny and warm all winter with nary any snow or ice. But they won;t work very well on a more normal winter, when its overcast almost every day and the panels are covered with a heavy layer of ice and snow for weeks on end.

This is the NEW normal...

[n2ize]

This is the NEW normal...

Well, I sure hope it isn't the new normal. Last winter we had a lot of snow and a lot of very cold weather. Ditto for the winter before that. This winter was bizarre by comparison. True, we didn't have the headache of having to plow out the driveway and worry if the plow will come through early enough to get the car out in the morning. But something about having temps in the 40's, 50's and 60's consistently from December through February with no snow at all is unnerving. The idea that our heaviest and only real snowstorm came way back in October ads to the surreal nature of this "new normal"

[KC2UGV]

Well, I sure hope it isn't the new normal. Last winter we had a lot of snow and a lot of very cold weather. Ditto for the winter before that. This winter was bizarre by comparison. True, we didn't have the headache of having to plow out the driveway and worry if the plow will come through early enough to get the car out in the morning. But something about having temps in the 40's, 50's and 60's consistently from December through February with no snow at all is unnerving. The idea that our heaviest and only real snowstorm came way back in October ads to the surreal nature of this "new normal"

But, today, in 1929, was warmer...

[PA5COR]

Our "winter"normally starting end November, had a deluge in December and too warm, January sunny, too warm, no frost till end of january lasting 13 days, sunny as well, all of 5 inches snow in that period, and that was it.
Back to +12 C here, long range forecast too warm for the next 2 weeks.
So, end of March, too warm, too wet ( December) and from the normal 12 weeks just 2 with - C and a flurry of snow.
The new winter...

Even in overcast situations my panels give some electricity, normally the hobby cells do 18 volt 3 amps, overcast 16 - 17 volts 1 amp.
Run of the mill ones as i showed in a much earlier thread.

[K7SGJ]

Our "winter"normally starting end November, had a deluge in December and too warm, January sunny, too warm, no frost till end of january lasting 13 days, sunny as well, all of 5 inches snow in that period, and that was it.
Back to +12 C here, long range forecast too warm for the next 2 weeks.
So, end of March, too warm, too wet ( December) and from the normal 12 weeks just 2 with - C and a flurry of snow.
The new winter...

Even in overcast situations my panels give some electricity, normally the hobby cells do 18 volt 3 amps, overcast 16 - 17 volts 1 amp.
Run of the mill ones as i showed in a much earlier thread.

How many panels and batteries are you running?

[PA5COR]

2 solar cells i got cheap from Phillips for testing purposes, each good for 1.5 amps at 17 - 18 volts.
Using my old van battery 110 Amps and a homebrew charging unit.
Used to light the shed and the backyard with LED lights totalling 10 watts outside and 2 x 5 watts inside the shed.

In summer time i also have an 700 watt sinus inverter connected to get 230 volts in the shed for electric tools etc.
3 Amps per hour in the summertime x 14 hours per day is overkill only if i use a the inverter doing a job it makes sense.
Paid 20 euro's for the cells and scrap electronics make up the regulator circuit.
Battery was good but replaced it anyway in the van for the winter.

Also did the solar installation on my parents in law their camper, 2 x 110 watt cells 2 deep cycle batteries 180 Amps each, LCD telly auto dish and satellite reciever etc.
Since their hollidays are mostly in the South of France, Portugal etc, they have an overkill in supply.
Less deep dischargiing of the batteries, and being topped up every day.
Replaced all incandescent lights in the van for LED 3 and 5 watt lights, reading lights etc.
Took me a week to do without haste.

[K7SGJ]

2 solar cells i got cheap from Phillips for testing purposes, each good for 1.5 amps at 17 - 18 volts.
Using my old van battery 110 Amps and a homebrew charging unit.
Used to light the shed and the backyard with LED lights totalling 10 watts outside and 2 x 5 watts inside the shed.

In summer time i also have an 700 watt sinus inverter connected to get 230 volts in the shed for electric tools etc.
3 Amps per hour in the summertime x 14 hours per day is overkill only if i use a the inverter doing a job it makes sense.
Paid 20 euro's for the cells and scrap electronics make up the regulator circuit.
Battery was good but replaced it anyway in the van for the winter.

Also did the solar installation on my parents in law their camper, 2 x 110 watt cells 2 deep cycle batteries 180 Amps each, LCD telly auto dish and satellite reciever etc.
Since their hollidays are mostly in the South of France, Portugal etc, they have an overkill in supply.
Less deep dischargiing of the batteries, and being topped up every day.
Replaced all incandescent lights in the van for LED 3 and 5 watt lights, reading lights etc.
Took me a week to do without haste.

Very cool, Cor. Since we live in a rural area, where reliable power is always a crap shoot, I've been toying with the idea of putting in some solar power for the house. I'd like to put in a large enough system to be fairly independant from the power company. We have always managed to fill in the gaps of service with the generators, so we have them available, too. Ive been waiting for the price point of solar to drop enough to make the cost payback quicker, but with the instability of fuel prices, it may be more cost effective to just go ahead and do it now. I'd be real interested in the cells you posted about. I'm very fond of less $$ and more effeciency, after all, I am a ham.

[KC2UGV]

Very cool, Cor. Since we live in a rural area, where reliable power is always a crap shoot, I've been toying with the idea of putting in some solar power for the house. I'd like to put in a large enough system to be fairly independant from the power company. We have always managed to fill in the gaps of service with the generators, so we have them available, too. Ive been waiting for the price point of solar to drop enough to make the cost payback quicker, but with the instability of fuel prices, it may be more cost effective to just go ahead and do it now. I'd be real interested in the cells you posted about. I'm very fond of less $$ and more effeciency, after all, I am a ham.

Since solar can be hit-or-miss depending on weather, you might want to look at other alternatives as well. This is one I am kicking around:
http://gekgasifier.com/

They have a DIY one: You supply the sheet metal, or they supply the pre-cut parts and you assemble; and also a pre-built unit.

At first glance most people say,"Well, that's not very green..." but it is. You can put any and all biomass into it, not just wood: Corn cob, grass cuttings, etc etc. And, the carbon sequestration cycle for biomass is much shorter than coal, oil, and natural gas.

To boot, you can heat water with it as well, so you kill two birds with one stone.

[PA5COR]

64% of the new energy made in the EU is done now with green alternative energy sources wind generators solar cells, biogas etc etc.
Making your own electricity gets you off the grid, make it as reliable as you want to be, and in the long run save money.
Electricity here is ( i think) more expensive so large initiatives of groups of house owners to get up communal solar installations are popping up everywhere.

My wife works as main secretary at a large firm that works in home heating and all it embodies and they will start a program that enables their costumers to get solar installations up combined with the natural gas fed central heating installation that also works as generator.
Already whole area's in city's are connected that way and don't need electricity from outside, they even deliver the overcapacity to street lighting and the electricity companies buy up the rest.

That's why it is so important to get the prices down, at the same time better efficiency and less use of raw material to make them.
Making electricity at your home doesn't suffer from losses in the grid, can be stored if need be, and a combined installation with the energy producing heating system or small wind generator at your home, bio gas installation will give you multiple sources to supply energy if one is not available.
Heat pumps, even drifting on a shed load of natural gas in the Netherlands, is used to warm large buildings, drill a hole in the ground a few 100 meters deep and us the earth's heat.
Or get the heat out of the outside air, up to - 10 Celsius, 1 KW electricity gets you 4 KW heat.
At the same time delivering heat for the warm water installation.

!000's of houses are build right now completely energy independent here.
Building a new home around that concept is cheaper as doing that to an existing home, but you still gain a lot even then.
Prices for energy will go only up, don't be mistaken...
Energy saving became a sport for me, and it dropped the bills substantially here, a welcome addition to that.
But my goal was to see how far i could get with off the shelf stuff, buying LED's and LED lamps from China in bulk for a few guy's together to drop shipping costs.
And make use of local sources... be inventive.

[K7SGJ]

Since solar can be hit-or-miss depending on weather, you might want to look at other alternatives as well. This is one I am kicking around:
http://gekgasifier.com/

They have a DIY one: You supply the sheet metal, or they supply the pre-cut parts and you assemble; and also a pre-built unit.

At first glance most people say,"Well, that's not very green..." but it is. You can put any and all biomass into it, not just wood: Corn cob, grass cuttings, etc etc. And, the carbon sequestration cycle for biomass is much shorter than coal, oil, and natural gas.

To boot, you can heat water with it as well, so you kill two birds with one stone.


That's an interesting concept. I'll look in to that. The problem we might have, is supplying enough material to generate a usable amount of fuel. Living in the desert, there isn't an abundance of "gasifiable" material available. We don't have grass to cut, (at least not the yard kind) no trees to trim, or any thing like that. As far as animals, all we have are dogs, rabbits, chickens, and a couple of pygmy goats on the way. If we had cows and horses, maybe it would be different. As it is, we compost everything we can for use in the garden.

[KC2UGV]

That's an interesting concept. I'll look in to that. The problem we might have, is supplying enough material to generate a usable amount of fuel. Living in the desert, there isn't an abundance of "gasifiable" material available. We don't have grass to cut, (at least not the yard kind) no trees to trim, or any thing like that. As far as animals, all we have are dogs, rabbits, chickens, and a couple of pygmy goats on the way. If we had cows and horses, maybe it would be different. As it is, we compost everything we can for use in the garden.

Ah hell, I didn't realize you lived in the desert! Solar is the way to go, IMO, coupled with maybe wind. And, there are lots more you can do with solar than just make electricity too. You can go pure solar water heating (Plus home heating, using hot water heat).

[K7SGJ]

So true. I didn't realize how much wind activity there is out where we live. (no snide remarks you guys) When I got the flag pole up to about 30' a couple of years ago, I noticed there is almost always a breeze of some kind going on. Since we are pretty well surrounded by mountains, that shouldn't surprise me, but it never seemed like enough for a wind generator. I've come to change my mind. One of the neighbors down the street put up a windmill at about 40', and it seems to always be spinning except when the wind picks way up and the brakes go on. When I compare the $$/watt, and consider the installation/maintenance costs, it seems like total solar is the way to go. Wind turbines still seem a little pricey. A solar water heating system backed by a propane on demand water heater to replace our 20 yo propane water heater is in the works now.

[PA5COR]

Wind (can) work 24/7 solar in the time the cells are in the sunlight.
20 odd years ago i made a hobby project with 4 LDR's in tubes and an electronics board that measured the sun on the LDR's and through a small motor with gears "followed" the sun and kept the cells absolutely directed to the sun, even during the summer adjusting to the arc the sun makes over the time.
When the sun dropped below the horizon, the electronics reset the solar cell holder to the east position to pick up the morning sun and start all over again that day.
There is a gaggle of info around on the net how to make your own windgenerator and electronics for charging batteries, or regulators.
Use of old stuff will drop the price considerably and as long the wind blows they make energy.