Question About Bows and Arrows

[n2ize]

Hi... here's a question some of you hunter/archery people might help me with. I have an old wooden longbow. I want to use it to fire a line into a tall tree so I can hoist a new aerial. The problem is the bow needs a new bowstring. I went on line and noticed they come in different lengths for different size bows and they specify a specific length string depending on the bow length. Only question I have is how do they measure the bow.Since the shape of the bow is an arc are they referring to the actual physical length of the bow itself or, are they referring to the length of the chord (i.e. straight distance between the ends of the bow)... I just want to make sure I order the right size. Far as arrows go, basic blunt or practice target arrows should do fine. I found a few places that have them cheap. This is just for putting up an antenna so its not going to be used for much else once that is done.

[N8YX]

You might find the following site to be helpful:

http://www.flemishbowstrings.com/

String measuring instructions are a little less than halfway down the page.

[KK4AMI]

Umm, have you ever shot a bow before? If you have not, you are going to hurt yourself. What is the draw weight on the bow? Arrows need to be sized to the draw and your arms. I'd take it to a bow shop, have them inspect it for safety, they can restring it and fit it with the right length arrows. If it has a draw weight in excess of 45#, it might be a little too powerful to launch arrows into a tree. Also, if it is a hunting bow, an arrow with a string on it can come back on you if the string gets caught. Ask me how I know this stuff! I have a recurve hunting bow with a 60# draw weight. Decided to switch to a fishing rod with 20# test fishing line and a 2 ounce weight (MUCH SAFER).

[KK4AMI]

Usually the bow has Draw weight and length annotated on the bow somewhere.

[K7SGJ]

You'll put your eye out.

[N7YA]

Does it have a compass in the stock?....Oh fuuuuuuuuudge!

[n2ize]

Umm, have you ever shot a bow before? If you have not, you are going to hurt yourself. What is the draw weight on the bow? Arrows need to be sized to the draw and your arms. I'd take it to a bow shop, have them inspect it for safety, they can restring it and fit it with the right length arrows. If it has a draw weight in excess of 45#, it might be a little too powerful to launch arrows into a tree. Also, if it is a hunting bow, an arrow with a string on it can come back on you if the string gets caught. Ask me how I know this stuff! I have a recurve hunting bow with a 60# draw weight. Decided to switch to a fishing rod with 20# test fishing line and a 2 ounce weight (MUCH SAFER).


Yes, I've fired a bow before and I've fired this bow before to to the very same job. Then I loaned it to someone only to get it back a few years later minus one bowstring.

I've thought of a few methods of getting the line up there other than the bow...

1) Slingshot. Accurate and inconspicuous but not enough power and accuracy when dragging a line. Only good for raising antenna onto lower branches resulting in poor height and communications.
2) Climbing the tree... Not an option for me right now. Perhaps when I was 18 but not today.
3) Professional tree climber/surgeon... A possibility but expensive. (*)
4) RC Helicopter ... too risky in an accident... loss of control, etc. small property with lots of adjacent yards. Too much at stake.. Can't take the chance.
5) Fishing pole ... difficult to get a good angle and put the line where I want it. Line ends up on adjacent property, snagged in neighbors trees, roofs, etc.
6) Manually throwing a weighted line... Possible but I have never tried before. Doubt I will have the required accuracy.

That leaves bow and arrow. Accurate, can easily be aimed where I want it, minimal interference with neighbors, quiet, adequate power. Plus I have done it before using blunt arrows and it does work. Drawbacks are as you mentioned but I am willing to take the risks.

[n2ize]

You might find the following site to be helpful:

http://www.flemishbowstrings.com/

String measuring instructions are a little less than halfway down the page.

Thanks... This is what I needed.

[WØTKX]

You forgot the best method of all. Recommended. I built this model from one of their "kits".

http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/csv19asm.html

[KJ3N]

1) Slingshot. Accurate and inconspicuous but not enough power and accuracy when dragging a line. Only good for raising antenna onto lower branches resulting in poor height and communications.

You're doing it wrong, then. I've routinely shot a 1-oz weight with 10# fishing line up to 65 feet high; sometimes as high as 70 feet. I use this contraption (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-005739), but you can build one, if you like.

[n2ize]

You're doing it wrong, then. I've routinely shot a 1-oz weight with 10# fishing line up to 65 feet high; sometimes as high as 70 feet. I use this contraption (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-005739), but you can build one, if you like.

Hmmm... Maybe I should give the old (and illegal in NY) wrist rocket another try.

BTW this thread really shouldn't be in this section. I posted it here by accident. It should really be in general chat or one of the radio related sections.

[KG4CGC]

I just use an 8' surfrod. 30 to 50 lb test line and a steel leader with a snap swivel for easy change out of sinker to rope. Safer and more accurate than a bow. Seriously, you're going to overshoot your target and kill someone or get sued for having that thing and having a shaft land withing 50 feet of someone or something. Unless you're in a very rural setting, the bow is bad idea. Use a 2 to 3 oz sinker and aim upward in the direction you want to go with the fishing set up. I'm surrounded by other dwelling on all sides and this is the way to go.
For the bow, take it to a local pro shop. Not a big box store and don't tell them you want to shoot antennas up in the air. They may have some equipment to attach a rope etc to your shaft but when you go around the internet asking 20 questions on a topic and you will receive 20 answers.

[W1GUH]

1) Slingshot. Accurate and inconspicuous but not enough power and accuracy when dragging a line. Only good for raising antenna onto lower branches resulting in poor height and communications.


Or....use a slingshot with light fishing line. Then pull the new line up with the fishing line. I higly recommed the slingshot. Easier than a bow, and with less overkill in the power department. Make your own with a y shaped piece of wood and surgical tubing.

[KG4CGC]

Or....use a slingshot with light fishing line. Then pull the new line up with the fishing line. I higly recommed the slingshot. Easier than a bow, and with less overkill in the power department. Make your own with a y shaped piece of wood and surgical tubing.

That's what I'm saying. OVERKILL! Overkill in the launch velocity. You wouldn't play with Lawn Darts™ would you?

[KG4CGC]

Put a few dots of light oil on your spool before you start. You'll thank me later when your line drops instead of fighting friction against bark and what have you in a tree.

[ab1ga]

How high are the tree limbs in question? I know you discounted the thrown weight, but it's the method arborists use to get lines in trees. A throw bag weighs about 12 to 16 ounces and is attached to a length of "slick rope", usually polypropylene. The high mass makes it less likely for a toss to go wild, and they don't bounce off branches, either. It takes a bit of practice to get the step and underhand throw just right, but the biggest challenge seems to be laying out the line prior to the toss so it doesn't get tangles on the way up.

[KJ3N]

Or....use a slingshot with light fishing line. Then pull the new line up with the fishing line.

From my experience, the 10# fishing line won't pull antenna rope over a tree without breaking. I will usually use an intermediate like mason line, then pull the antenna rope up with the mason line.

[kf0rt]

Thread moved...

[n2ize]

I just use an 8' surfrod. 30 to 50 lb test line and a steel leader with a snap swivel for easy change out of sinker to rope. Safer and more accurate than a bow. Seriously, you're going to overshoot your target and kill someone or get sued for having that thing and having a shaft land withing 50 feet of someone or something. Unless you're in a very rural setting, the bow is bad idea. Use a 2 to 3 oz sinker and aim upward in the direction you want to go with the fishing set up. I'm surrounded by other dwelling on all sides and this is the way to go.
For the bow, take it to a local pro shop. Not a big box store and don't tell them you want to shoot antennas up in the air. They may have some equipment to attach a rope etc to your shaft but when you go around the internet asking 20 questions on a topic and you will receive 20 answers.


I've used the bow and arrow down here before, at this location and at several friends houses, at least one of whom had less room and was more crowded. It always worked well. Nobody got hurt or ever came close to getting wounded. The arrows are not sharp (we removed / blunted any points) and they are very light weight wooden practice arrows. I have also found that to reach a 70 foot branch the bow need not be pulled very tight and even the kind of bow that comes with the most inexpensive junior archery set works well. We attach ch our string via a hole drilled in the arrow shaft, attach some extra weight to the arrow, aim and viola', quite often a clean shot over the desired branches (or others close enough). Then retrieve the arrow, attach a heavier line and viola' you have your antenna support rope. And I only need to do this once since it is supported in the middle.

I might give the sling shot another chance but if it fails I am going to use the bow.

[n2ize]

How high are the tree limbs in question? I know you discounted the thrown weight, but it's the method arborists use to get lines in trees. A throw bag weighs about 12 to 16 ounces and is attached to a length of "slick rope", usually polypropylene. The high mass makes it less likely for a toss to go wild, and they don't bounce off branches, either. It takes a bit of practice to get the step and underhand throw just right, but the biggest challenge seems to be laying out the line prior to the toss so it doesn't get tangles on the way up.

Yeah I know. But the throwing method is not going to work here because my throws won't be accurate enough. I'd need to do practice first and that means going outside and looking stupid while people look on and say "what the heck is that nut trying to do ??". If I knew the trees were scheduled for maintenance I'd ask the tree men to put the line up for me but I don't know when there will be any tree work done around here.

[W1GUH]

Same here. And the "swing the line around and let go" method didn't work for me either. All I have to show for that effort is a dent in the roof of my car.

[NA4BH]

Climb the tree

[ab1ga]

Or train a squirrel. I hear they work for peanuts.

Only slightly more seriously, as a ham radio operator you have an obligation to be the premier neighborhood eccentric. Standing outside doing silly things in full view of the neighbors is part of the licensing requirements (little known part).

Besides, five will get you ten that you won't have to do the job. After ten minutes of casting a pound of lead in a pouch around the neighborhood, someone will walk up to you and will ask to try, for one of the following reasons:

- The desire to prove themselves the greatest HE-MAN of the county.
- Concern over the safety of their cars, homes, and pets.
- Their innate inability to watch any more, prevented by their inability to look away, also known as the "train wreck effect"
- They pity you and want to help you. This is often the choice of pretty women, some of whom may remain curious about you. They may agree to look at your "boat anchor".

73,

[N7YA]

Put a few dots of light oil on your spool before you start. You'll thank me later when your line drops instead of fighting friction against bark and what have you in a tree.

Smart man! Not your first rodeo. ;)

[WØTKX]

These guys are doing it with a rod and reel, instead of the optional spear fishing reel that I have. :bbh:

http://youtu.be/OUggSVKFN9Y


http://youtu.be/OUggSVKFN9Y

[n2ize]

Climb the tree

About 34 years ago I would have. These days that would not be a good idea.

[n2ize]

Or train a squirrel. I hear they work for peanuts.

Only slightly more seriously, as a ham radio operator you have an obligation to be the premier neighborhood eccentric. Standing outside doing silly things in full view of the neighbors is part of the licensing requirements (little known part).

Besides, five will get you ten that you won't have to do the job. After ten minutes of casting a pound of lead in a pouch around the neighborhood, someone will walk up to you and will ask to try, for one of the following reasons:

- The desire to prove themselves the greatest HE-MAN of the county.
- Concern over the safety of their cars, homes, and pets.
- Their innate inability to watch any more, prevented by their inability to look away, also known as the "train wreck effect"
- They pity you and want to help you. This is often the choice of pretty women, some of whom may remain curious about you. They may agree to look at your "boat anchor".

73,

That is all well and cool but. I want as few neighbors as possible to know that I am a ham radio operator. I keep my operations very stealth. The faster this antenna goes up and any activity associated with its construction is forgotten the better.

[n2ize]

- They pity you and want to help you. This is often the choice of pretty women, some of whom may remain curious about you. They may agree to look at your "boat anchor".

73,

They may admire my antenna erection ?

[K7SGJ]

I think your neighbors woulod be a little more comfortable knowing you were a ham operator instead of just seeing you running around with a bow and arrows. ;)

[KJ3N]

They may admire my antenna erection ?

I'd prefer they admire my "hardline". :snicker:

[KG4CGC]

That is all well and cool but. I want as few neighbors as possible to know that I am a ham radio operator. I keep my operations very stealth. The faster this antenna goes up and any activity associated with its construction is forgotten the better.

When is it appropriate to tell a woman that you are a ham?

[ab1ga]

When is it appropriate to tell a woman that you are a ham?

Whenever the spirit moves you, OM.

[KG4CGC]

Whenever the spirit moves you, OM.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?184333-When-do-you-tell-a-woman-you-re-a-ham&highlight=w6ire

[N7YA]

When is it appropriate to tell a woman that you are a ham?

Only if you find out she is one first. Otherwise, it should just be a dirty little secret. Woman repellant, ya know.

[NQ6U]

When is it appropriate to tell a woman that you are a ham?

After you tell her the lesions have all cleared up but before you tell her about the genital warts.

[ab1ga]

Only if you find out she is one first. Otherwise, it should just be a dirty little secret. Woman repellant, ya know.

I'm believing that less and less as time goes on, for a couple of reasons.

1. I suspect that those hams who can't land a lady have other, more significant problems, and just blame ham radio. Almost all of the hams I know are married to very nice ladies, and some have even been repeat offenders. Most of the wives were exposed to the hobby prior to saying, "I do".

2. I have met a few women who actually thought ham radio was "cool", because it involved more than watching television. They seem to be more fascinated by homebrewing than by DX or contesting. Some of the activities they find endearingly ridiculous, like Field Day, but they still like it.

3. Hams need to practice PR more. Instead of saying "I work restoring old radios", say "I'm an artist in molten metal". Talk to them about soldering in those terms and they'll leave their musician boyfriends for you.

(Since you're already a musician, you won't have to do this last step, except to keep other hams from stealing your girl.)

73 and :)

[W1GUH]

I'm believing that less and less as time goes on, for a couple of reasons.

1. I suspect that those hams who can't land a lady have other, more significant problems, and just blame ham radio. Almost all of the hams I know are married to very nice ladies, and some have even been repeat offenders. Most of the wives were exposed to the hobby prior to saying, "I do".

2. I have met a few women who actually thought ham radio was "cool", because it involved more than watching television. They seem to be more fascinated by homebrewing than by DX or contesting. Some of the activities they find endearingly ridiculous, like Field Day, but they still like it.

3. Hams need to practice PR more. Instead of saying "I work restoring old radios", say "I'm an artist in molten metal". Talk to them about soldering in those terms and they'll leave their musician boyfriends for you.

(Since you're already a musician, you won't have to do this last step, except to keep other hams from stealing your girl.)

73 and :)

I tend to agree with all that with the added proviso that that appears to apply to exceptional ladies...not so sure it can be generally applied. I, too, have known ladies who were intrigued by it - and they fit the "exceptional" category.

OTOH...be aware that this can happen.

Was talking to a great chick and was about to reveal my dirtly little secret. I approached it by casually saying "ham radio" without tipping my hand. Her immediate reply was, 'That's the Geekiest!!!!!!", and not in a good way. Whew!

[KJ3N]

When is it appropriate to tell a woman that you are a ham?

After you've given her a third orgasm in less than an hour. Then she won't care. ;) :rofl:

[kf0rt]

Her immediate reply was, 'That's the Geekiest!!!!!!", and not in a good way. Whew!

Response: "Yeah, but did you know that Morse Code can be faster than texting?"

[ab1ga]

I tend to agree with all that with the added proviso that that appears to apply to exceptional ladies...not so sure it can be generally applied. I, too, have known ladies who were intrigued by it - and they fit the "exceptional" category.

OTOH...be aware that this can happen.

Was talking to a great chick and was about to reveal my dirtly little secret. I approached it by casually saying "ham radio" without tipping my hand. Her immediate reply was, 'That's the Geekiest!!!!!!", and not in a good way. Whew!

OM, at our age, with all our infirmities, we should not waste our time with any but exceptional ladies. You should tell her you are among the most dedicated of hams, having pursued it all your life, and that you would give it up for neither love nor money. She will run away, and then tell all her friends about you, and if they are like her, they too will run away.

When the chaff has blown away, only the wheat remains, and only the exceptional remain. :)

73

[ab1ga]

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?184333-When-do-you-tell-a-woman-you-re-a-ham&highlight=w6ire

Some men couldn't get lucky in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons...

73,

[KJ3N]

Some men couldn't get lucky in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons...

... or dildos...

[KK4AMI]

I took up metal detecting first to use on the beaches of North Carolina. After that, the wife thought Ham Radio was a step up! No problem!

[K7SGJ]

Some men couldn't get lucky in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons...

73,


... or dildos...

Oh, pardon my dildo.

[K7SGJ]

OM, at our age, with all our infirmities, we should not waste our time with any but exceptional ladies. You should tell her you are among the most dedicated of hams, having pursued it all your life, and that you would give it up for neither love nor money. She will run away, and then tell all her friends about you, and if they are like her, they too will run away.

When the chaff has blown away, only the wheat remains, and only the exceptional remain. :)

73

And there you will be standing, all afuckinglone.

[KG4CGC]

One Halloween, I went to a bar party as a priest with a boner.

[kf0rt]

A priest, a rabbi and a preacher walk into a bar.

Bartender says "This is a joke, right?"

[n2ize]

Technically I cannot use the slingshot because they are banned in NY state. Dealers will not ship slingshots to New York. So I will have to use the bow in order to do the installation legally. So, I either get a bowstring and some arrows or buy one of those inexpensive "junior target" sets. Most of them have enough power for what I need.

[KG4CGC]

Just use the surf rod with a spinning reel and 50lb test and tell the locals you're fishing for nuts.
No one will say another damn thing to you about it.

[n2ize]

Just use the surf rod with a spinning reel and 50lb test and tell the locals you're fishing for nuts.
No one will say another damn thing to you about it.

I would use that but there are 2 problems. I don't know where any of my old surf reels are and I'm not buying a new reel just to string an antenna. Second, even if I had one there is not adequate room to get the right trajectory to perform an accurate cast in the direction I would need it to go. Not to mention there would be a strong chance the line would drape over the power lines. The 20 Kv primary runs on my side of the street adjacent to my property.

The slingshot or the bow would work best here because they would deliver to give me the near vertical trajectory that I need to get the line up and over the branch and then vertically downward. In short I need a delivery device that can give me a large vertical component and just barely enough horizontal component to cross the branch. A slingshot or a bow are the best way to go for the path I need.

In short I need this trajectory

http://74.101.203.109:841/dirdel/traj1.png

as opposed to this one

http://74.101.203.109:841/dirdel/traj2.png

[WØTKX]

Tennis ball cannon will do that. Just sayin'.

[n2ize]

Tennis ball cannon will do that. Just sayin'.

Would it have enough power when pulling a line ?? Are they easy to make ? It could be worth a try if not now than at a future time.

[WØTKX]

http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html

[KG4CGC]

I would use that but there are 2 problems. I don't know where any of my old surf reels are and I'm not buying a new reel just to string an antenna. Second, even if I had one there is not adequate room to get the right trajectory to perform an accurate cast in the direction I would need it to go. Not to mention there would be a strong chance the line would drape over the power lines. The 20 Kv primary runs on my side of the street adjacent to my property.

The slingshot or the bow would work best here because they would deliver to give me the near vertical trajectory that I need to get the line up and over the branch and then vertically downward. In short I need a delivery device that can give me a large vertical component and just barely enough horizontal component to cross the branch. A slingshot or a bow are the best way to go for the path I need.

In short I need this trajectory

http://74.101.203.109:841/dirdel/traj1.png

as opposed to this one

http://74.101.203.109:841/dirdel/traj2.png

I disagree. You can get any trajectory you want. That's the beauty of this set up. You can go almost straight up in a tight space or lob it 100 yards with a perfect arc. Go out by the lake and practice a bit.

[n2ize]

I disagree. You can get any trajectory you want. That's the beauty of this set up. You can go almost straight up in a tight space or lob it 100 yards with a perfect arc. Go out by the lake and practice a bit.

Maybe. But I don;t know if I have a functional reel/rod at this time. I still think I can get better aim with the slingshot or bow. I've done it before and did quite well. But I'll keep the fishing pole in mind should the bow or slingshot fail.

[KG4CGC]

Maybe. But I don;t know if I have a functional reel/rod at this time. I still think I can get better aim with the slingshot or bow. I've done it before and did quite well. But I'll keep the fishing pole in mind should the bow or slingshot fail.
Unless you have a large, tree specialists sling shot, eh.
I've not had luck with slingshots getting the required weight up in the air.

[NA4BH]

NUFF SAID



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ObUJQjFso

ETA: Slight language usage

[n2ize]

Unless you have a large, tree specialists sling shot, eh.
I've not had luck with slingshots getting the required weight up in the air.

That's why I tend to favor the bow + blunt arrow with a small weight attached to the end. Instead of stringing my old longbow (which is overkill for this job), I am just going to buy an inexpensive el'cheapo beginners bow and some cheap practice arrows. It will have more than enough power to launch the line. We used cheap junior bow and arrow sets for launching antennas in the old days. They worked fine.

[N7YA]

Rockets!! BIG rockets!! That'll get ya there! :snicker:

[NQ6U]

Rockets!! BIG rockets!! That'll get ya there! :snicker:

I'd suggest a Saturn V.

[w2amr]

That's why I tend to favor the bow + blunt arrow with a small weight attached to the end. Instead of stringing my old longbow (which is overkill for this job), I am just going to buy an inexpensive el'cheapo beginners bow and some cheap practice arrows. It will have more than enough power to launch the line. We used cheap junior bow and arrow sets for launching antennas in the old days. They worked fine.
5375

[W1GUH]

So John, when are ya actually gonna DO it instead of talking about it? Would LOVE to hear that great Viking from Yonkers -- if we coordinate our timetables we could be the first QSO between your Viking and either my Heath twins (almost there), or my Gonset!

I'd LOVE for that to happen!

And don't forget....Feb. is the BEST month for wire antenna erection, but March can be good too!

Have fun!

P.S. I'm pretty much available for an erection party!

:bbh:

[N7YA]

Im a tit man myself.