Joe Paterno gone [Archive] - The Island Of Misfit Hams

W3WN

01-23-2012, 01:48 PM

A fact is not a slur.< snip >Only it's not a fact. You want to buy into media hype and hysteria, that's your business, but that doesn't make wild speculations "facts."

The fact is that Paterno was not aware of what Sandusky was allegedly doing at the time of the reported incident.
The fact is that Sandusky at the time of the incident was not on Paterno's staff. He was officially retired. He only had access to the facilities as a retired professor emeritus.
The fact is that Paterno did not actually have the power to discipline Sandusky in any way. He did ban him from certain parts of the facilities under the direct control of the football team, but that is all he could do.
The fact is that Paterno was not told in graphic detail by McQueary what he allegedly saw. McQueary said as much in his grand jury testimony. Paterno was only given a vague indication of what McQueary allegedly saw. (And I say "allegedly" because I don't know for a fact what he did or did not see, or did or did not say; not from any disbelief of what was reported)
The fact is that Paterno reported it to his superiors, as he was required to do. Which included the head of the University Police department. Both of whom, McQueary (in his grand jury testimony) briefed in full, graphic detail. By the way, these are the two gentlemen who are now under indictment for perjury vis a vis their grand jury testimony.

And the fact is that Paterno did not follow up from there. He said it was because his superiors assured him that they matter would be investigated, but that since it did not involve a current member of his staff, it was outside of his province. Keeping in mind, again, that he was not told in great detail that there was a suspicion of child molestation, only that "something wrong" was going on.

Yes, he failed to follow up. I would guess (I am not stating this as a fact) that he simply did not comprehend, based on the limited information that was given directly to him, how big the problem was. I simply can not believe he would have looked the other way had he known. It runs contrary to the man's moral fiber and character, and despite the sleezy allegations thrown at him in the media, or by those who simply believe the 10 second sound bites of dubious accuracy, I simply can not believe he would have stood idly by -- had he known. He didn't know.

I am disgusted with Penn State. I resent the tarnishing of their image that was done by people who were in positions of authority, people who chose not to act but to cover up. Their acts of cowardice is what has caused this stain on the reputation of both the University, and on Paterno. I am embarrassed to no end to even be associated with them as an alum from 35+ years back.

But put the blame where it belongs. Blame the molester who covered his tracks. Blame the administrators who turned a blind eye and then tried to cover it up. Blame to some extent the DA who had a chance to file charges but for unknown reasons didn't. But don't blame the man who didn't know, just because he's a convenient scapegoat.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 02:01 PM

< snip >There are those three funny little buttons on a telephone... 9-1-1 then say someone is boinking a kid in a shower at penn state. Guaranteed someone will follow up like in 10 minutes or less. Que no!That's the one part I don't get. When McQueary witnessed the incident, I don't understand why he didn't do just that.

I would speculate that as a 22-something graduate assistant, he didn't know what to do. But I still don't understand why he didn't call 911. Only he can answer that one.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 05:29 PM

Only it's not a fact. You want to buy into media hype and hysteria, that's your business, but that doesn't make wild speculations "facts."

The fact is that Paterno was not aware of what Sandusky was allegedly doing at the time of the reported incident.
The fact is that Sandusky at the time of the incident was not on Paterno's staff. He was officially retired. He only had access to the facilities as a retired professor emeritus.
The fact is that Paterno did not actually have the power to discipline Sandusky in any way. He did ban him from certain parts of the facilities under the direct control of the football team, but that is all he could do.
The fact is that Paterno was not told in graphic detail by McQueary what he allegedly saw. McQueary said as much in his grand jury testimony. Paterno was only given a vague indication of what McQueary allegedly saw. (And I say "allegedly" because I don't know for a fact what he did or did not see, or did or did not say; not from any disbelief of what was reported)
The fact is that Paterno reported it to his superiors, as he was required to do. Which included the head of the University Police department. Both of whom, McQueary (in his grand jury testimony) briefed in full, graphic detail. By the way, these are the two gentlemen who are now under indictment for perjury vis a vis their grand jury testimony.

And the fact is that Paterno did not follow up from there. He said it was because his superiors assured him that they matter would be investigated, but that since it did not involve a current member of his staff, it was outside of his province. Keeping in mind, again, that he was not told in great detail that there was a suspicion of child molestation, only that "something wrong" was going on.

Yes, he failed to follow up. I would guess (I am not stating this as a fact) that he simply did not comprehend, based on the limited information that was given directly to him, how big the problem was. I simply can not believe he would have looked the other way had he known. It runs contrary to the man's moral fiber and character, and despite the sleezy allegations thrown at him in the media, or by those who simply believe the 10 second sound bites of dubious accuracy, I simply can not believe he would have stood idly by -- had he known. He didn't know.

I am disgusted with Penn State. I resent the tarnishing of their image that was done by people who were in positions of authority, people who chose not to act but to cover up. Their acts of cowardice is what has caused this stain on the reputation of both the University, and on Paterno. I am embarrassed to no end to even be associated with them as an alum from 35+ years back.

But put the blame where it belongs. Blame the molester who covered his tracks. Blame the administrators who turned a blind eye and then tried to cover it up. Blame to some extent the DA who had a chance to file charges but for unknown reasons didn't. But don't blame the man who didn't know, just because he's a convenient scapegoat.

The fact is: Paterno was told there was a suspected child molestation (If not all out rape). In fact, the witness saw it, then reported it to his dad. Then, reported it to Paterno.

Paterno did nothing.

Paterno is an accomplice to child rape. If there is a hell, I hope he rots there.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 05:30 PM

That's the one part I don't get. When McQueary witnessed the incident, I don't understand why he didn't do just that.

I would speculate that as a 22-something graduate assistant, he didn't know what to do. But I still don't understand why he didn't call 911. Only he can answer that one.

I hope McQueary dies too. But, that doesn't excuse Paterno, who was told by McQueary that a rape took place.

W4GPL

01-23-2012, 06:04 PM

It's hard to believe he would have gone from diagnosis to death that quickly. :dunno: My Grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer and was told he had 6 months, he was gone in less than 6 weeks. Lung cancer tends to be very aggressive.

kf0rt

01-23-2012, 06:08 PM

:dunno: My Grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer and was told he had 6 months, he was gone in less than 6 weeks. Lung cancer tends to be very aggressive.

Peter Boyles this morning: "Do you think he willed himself to die?"

(Okay, that evolved into a kind of interesting metaphysical sort of discussion.)

ab1ga

01-23-2012, 06:30 PM

He didn't will himself to die, but he saw it coming.

According to the cited report, Paterno's son announced on 18 Nov that his father was being treated for lung cancer diagnosed in "mid-November"

To me, the 18th -is- the middle of November, and if the son meant a week or two earlier than the 18th, then Paterno was diagnosed in early November.

I suspect he got the news, figured the odds, and then said he'd retire at the end of the season, just before his "departure date".

N1LAF

01-23-2012, 06:36 PM

The fact is: Paterno was told there was a suspected child molestation (If not all out rape). In fact, the witness saw it, then reported it to his dad. Then, reported it to Paterno.

Paterno did nothing.

Paterno is an accomplice to child rape. If there is a hell, I hope he rots there.

Which begs the question, why didn't the person that reported to Paterno, go to the police directly instead?

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 06:38 PM

Which begs the question, why didn't the person that reported to Paterno, go to the police directly instead?

For the same reason Paterno didn't call the police immediately: They were covering up a child rape, to protect a football team, and their own fucking careers. They are both accomplices to the rape of a child, and get no sympathy from me.

W2NAP

01-23-2012, 06:57 PM

I hope McQueary dies too. But, that doesn't excuse Paterno, who was told by McQueary that a rape took place.

i think you missed this "The fact is that Paterno reported it to his superiors, as he was required to do. Which included the head of the University Police department."

so he did report it. university police have juridiction on what happens on campus.

N1LAF

01-23-2012, 07:27 PM

i think you missed this "The fact is that Paterno reported it to his superiors, as he was required to do. Which included the head of the University Police department."

so he did report it. university police have juridiction on what happens on campus.

Do I remember that the police and the DA was informed, and was being investigated before the DA went (and still is) missing?

The criminal case against former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky has put the media spotlight back on the missing persons case of Ray Gricar. An esteemed district attorney, Gricar failed to prosecute Sandusky for sex crimes in 1998, and later disappeared without a trace.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/11/ray-gricar-missing-jerry-sandusky-pennsylvania-da_n_1088950.html

The Police and the DA was notified, investigated, and did nothing... accomplices?

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:01 PM

i think you missed this "The fact is that Paterno reported it to his superiors, as he was required to do. Which included the head of the University Police department."

so he did report it. university police have juridiction on what happens on campus.

So, if you witnessed, or was told about a little boy getting raped, you would just tell your boss; or would you dial 9-1-1?

If it's in a mall, would you tell the mall cop; or call the real police?

If you reported it to the mall cop; and nothing was done, would you let the child rapist near other kids?

W2NAP

01-23-2012, 08:04 PM

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:06 PM

your missing the point. it was reported to campus police.

if i report something to police and they DO NOTHING thats on them.

Nuh uh. You don't get a pass like that.

If you are famous, and you know about a rape; would you not, should you not, use your position to help bring that person to justice, or should you use that position to protect the person?

He called the mall cop, and then did nothing when he saw the rapist around kids afterwards. He is an accomplice. He helped ruin at least 9 kid's lives.

Joe protected the person. He can rot in hell.

kf0rt

01-23-2012, 08:07 PM

I'd shoot the bastid with my concealed .45, THEN dial 911.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:08 PM

I'd shoot the bastid with my concealed .45, THEN dial 911.

Yeah, but if you were Joe Paterno, you'd just ask for the keys to the locker room, and then invite him to a kid's summer camp.

W4GPL

01-23-2012, 08:13 PM

President Obama has called Paterno's family to offer condolences.

ka8ncr

01-23-2012, 08:20 PM

A fact is not a slur.

You don't report rape to "higher ups". You call the fucking police.

No one knows exactly what was said to Paterno, but it is an extremely dangerous thing to go around accusing someone of child molestation based upon what someone tells you. Considering that the witness didn't do it, what was Paterno exactly supposed to do?

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:20 PM

The fact is: Paterno was told there was a suspected child molestation (If not all out rape). In fact, the witness saw it, then reported it to his dad. Then, reported it to Paterno.

Paterno did nothing.

Paterno is an accomplice to child rape. If there is a hell, I hope he rots there.Wrong. Dead wrong. He was not told that.

But your mind is made up already, so don't bother with the facts.

W2NAP

01-23-2012, 08:21 PM

Nuh uh. You don't get a pass like that.

If you are famous, and you know about a rape; would you not, should you not, use your position to help bring that person to justice, or should you use that position to protect the person?

He called the mall cop, and then did nothing when he saw the rapist around kids afterwards. He is an accomplice. He helped ruin at least 9 kid's lives.

Joe protected the person. He can rot in hell.

mall cop? no University Police ARE THE POLICE they have total juridiction on campus. and if you think campus police are just "mall cops" i dare you to come here and go speeding though Andersion University and try and get out of the huge ticket by calling them "mall cops"

another thing if we worked at the university, and someone told me they seen you in a shower with a boy and it didnt look right. all I can do is tell the higher ups and campus police. if the higher ups and campus police do nothing about it thats not my problem. as someone told me what they saw. and me telling who I am to tell. they tell me nothing then I must asume they did there part and they found nothing going on.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:26 PM

I hope McQueary dies too. But, that doesn't excuse Paterno, who was told by McQueary that a rape took place.

I'm sure glad you've already made up your mind. And never mind that McQueary has stated on multiple occasions, including the grand jury testimony, that he did NOT specifically tell Paterno that he witnessed a rape, nor molestation.

I'm not saying anything else to you lest I lose my temper. Except this: The last time I tried to converse with someone so pig-headed and self-riteous, she lied to a moderator and claimed I was harrassing her, which got me a threat of banishment... not that being tossed off of the Zed is exactly much of a threat. I thought better of you than I did of ABNS, I see that I'm going to have to revise that opinion now.

W4GPL

01-23-2012, 08:27 PM

I suspect the answer is somewhere in between what Corey believes and what Ron believes. I don't wish anyone dead, and I think it's in extremely bad taste to do so -- especially when the only evidence is what's been presented in the media, not a court of law. I fear Paterno may have had some ethical lapses, but it's very easy to cast stones until you're put in his shoes. We'll likely never know what he really knew or what his motives were. All we know for sure is that the reputation of a well respected college football coach will forever be tainted.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:28 PM

Which begs the question, why didn't the person that reported to Paterno, go to the police directly instead?Now THAT is the $64,000 question. I can speculate, but I don't know, and any speculation will sound like I'm making excuses for the guy... which I don't want to do.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:28 PM

No one knows exactly what was said to Paterno, but it is an extremely dangerous thing to go around accusing someone of child molestation based upon what someone tells you. Considering that the witness didn't do it, what was Paterno exactly supposed to do?

I dunno, but Paterno admitted he was told by McQueary, and McQueary told the grand jury the same thing.

Personally, I'd call the police. And, I'd ask the rapist to never come around here again.

Wrong. Dead wrong. He was not told that.

But your mind is made up already, so don't bother with the facts.

I'm just repeating the statements to the grand jury. It's ok: You want to idolize a person who helped destroy at least 9 people's lives.

mall cop? no University Police ARE THE POLICE they have total juridiction on campus. and if you think campus police are just "mall cops" i dare you to come here and go speeding though Andersion University and try and get out of the huge ticket by calling them "mall cops"

Campus cops can issue tickets, which carry no power off campus, and detain a person until the police arrive. Just like mall cops.

It's easy to get out of a campus ticket: Don't go on campus again. I have like 10 outstanding campus tickets.

another thing if we worked at the university, and someone told me they seen you in a shower with a boy and it didnt look right. all I can do is tell the higher ups and campus police. if the higher ups and campus police do nothing about it thats not my problem. as someone told me what they saw. and me telling who I am to tell. they tell me nothing then I must asume they did there part and they found nothing going on.

If somebody comes up and tells me you were raping a kid in the shower, all I could do is dial 9-1-1; and his ass would be arrested.

What Paterno did is basically nothing: He called his boss, and the director of finance. He never even called campus cops.

http://www.menshealth.com/health/why-joe-paterno-didnt-call-police

Stand up for Paterno now. He never called the police. He called the person in charge of marketing for the sport's team.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:29 PM

Now THAT is the $64,000 question. I can speculate, but I don't know, and any speculation will sound like I'm making excuses for the guy... which I don't want to do.

It's no $64K question. They were all protecting the team, and their careers, and aided and abetted a child rapist. They should all be tossed in jail.

W4GPL

01-23-2012, 08:30 PM

It's no $64K question. They were all protecting the team, and their careers, and aided and abetted a child rapist. They should all be tossed in jail.You really should take over for Miss Cleo, you seem to be able to read minds like no one I've ever met before..

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:34 PM

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/07/police-commissioner-paterno-didnt-do-enough/

Paterno may have fulfilled his legal requirement to report suspected abuse by former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said, “but somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child.”
He added: “I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you’re a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us.”

So yeah. Yet's all be proud of the man who knew kids were being raped, but decided to protect his team, and call the director of marketing, rather than the DA. Because, we all know Paterno had no influence on anything other than his football team.

Give me a break. This guy got what he deserved. Times like this make me beleive there might just be a deity out there, making sure the balances work out.

W2NAP

01-23-2012, 08:34 PM

Campus cops can issue tickets, which carry no power off campus, and detain a person until the police arrive. Just like mall cops.

It's easy to get out of a campus ticket: Don't go on campus again. I have like 10 outstanding campus tickets.

really? no power off campus? very odd then these "mall cops" here will assist APD when they need help.

also funny how I have heard "mall cops" here arrest someone and take them to county jail.

be glad you live in NY and not here cause your DL would be suspended for unpaid tickets.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:35 PM

You really should take over for Miss Cleo, you seem to be able to read minds like no one I've ever met before..

It's not hard to figure out why everyone worked hard to sweep this under the rug... Really? It's not rocket science. It's because they expected the very thing happening now to occur: Penn state's sports team is undergoing some really close scrutiny now.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:36 PM

Do I remember that the police and the DA was informed, and was being investigated before the DA went (and still is) missing?
The criminal case against former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky has put the media spotlight back on the missing persons case of Ray Gricar. An esteemed district attorney, Gricar failed to prosecute Sandusky for sex crimes in 1998, and later disappeared without a trace.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/11/ray-gricar-missing-jerry-sandusky-pennsylvania-da_n_1088950.html

The Police and the DA was notified, investigated, and did nothing... accomplices?My understanding from what I've learned about the 1998 case was that, according to his associates, Gricar felt that he did not have sufficient evidence to proceed to a trial and obtain a conviction. That does not say that Sandusky is or was innocent or guilty. One could argue that point either way... which changes nothing.

I don't personally believe that Sandusky's retirement in 1999 was entirely unrelated. I suspect (I have no proof of this) that after he was informed that he would not, and never be, Paterno's successor, he was encouraged to depart voluntarily.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:36 PM

really? no power off campus? very odd then these "mall cops" here will assist APD when they need help.

also funny how I have heard "mall cops" here arrest someone and take them to county jail.

be glad you live in NY and not here cause your DL would be suspended for unpaid tickets.

That's because in Indiana, everyone is a sheriff deputy lol

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:37 PM

I don't personally believe that Sandusky's retirement in 1999 was entirely unrelated. I suspect (I have no proof of this) that after he was informed that he would not, and never be, Paterno's successor, he was encouraged to depart voluntarily.

But, was given keys to the facility. And, when people found out he was raping kids, they asked for the keys back... And, didn't bother to call the police.

NA4BH

01-23-2012, 08:38 PM

Campus cops can issue tickets, which carry no power off campus, and detain a person until the police arrive. Just like mall cops.

It's easy to get out of a campus ticket: Don't go on campus again. I have like 10 outstanding campus tickets.

You might want to check on that. If it's a State University, they have just about as much authority as the State Troopers do. The local ones here often are called to assist the city force and vice versa. They are real cops, not "Mall Cops". You might also want to check on those tickets, there might be a warrant out for you..... FTA. And if there is one, you'll find out next time they pull you over.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:39 PM

You might want to check on that. If it's a State University, they have just about as much authority as the State Troopers do. The local ones here often are called to assist the city force and vice versa. They are real cops, not "Mall Cops". You might also want to check on those tickets, there might be a warrant out for you..... FTA. And if there is one, you'll find out next time they pull you over.

If there is a warrant, it's never come up on the multiple background checks, or clearances. And, not once while renewing both registration and license...

And, yes, a state school. SUNY@Buffalo.

NA4BH

01-23-2012, 08:40 PM

If there is a warrant, it's never come up on the multiple background checks, or clearances. And, not once while renewing both registration and license...

And, yes, a state school. SUNY@Buffalo.

Good luck

W2NAP

01-23-2012, 08:44 PM

That's because in Indiana, everyone is a sheriff deputy lol

most other states are the same. and I believe PA looks at campus police just like IN will. they are cops.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:45 PM

So, if you witnessed, or was told about a little boy getting raped, you would just tell your boss; or would you dial 9-1-1?

If it's in a mall, would you tell the mall cop; or call the real police?

If you reported it to the mall cop; and nothing was done, would you let the child rapist near other kids?
1. What I would do today, in today's environment, is immaterial to what McQueary did 10 years ago. If you're point is that he made a bad decision, I would agree.

2. I hate to break this to you, but the University Police are real police. If you don't believe me, feel free to call K3CWP. He's a former police officer for State College, and he is (as far as I know) currently the magistrate for the Borough, which includes the Penn State campus.

3. Let me make this very clear:

I do not condone in any manner child molestation of any kind. However... Jerry Sandusky has yet to be brought to trial. He has not confessed to the crimes he is alleged to have committed. Therefore, technically, and my stomach turns as I have to say this, he is not a convicted molester or rapist and as such can not legally be treated as such.

I should also point out to you the incident a few years back with the Duke Lacrosse team. Those kids were also tried and convicted in the media... and it only came out later that the accuser was lying and the DA fabricated or manipulated evidence and facts in an attempt to convict the students accused. I am NOT saying that I believe Sandusky is innocent... I AM saying that we should not lynch the man based on what the media is reporting in 15 second sound bites and Twitter tweets.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:49 PM

But, was given keys to the facility. And, when people found out he was raping kids, they asked for the keys back... And, didn't bother to call the police.He retired as a Professor Emeritus. As such, he was entitled to an office and access to the facility. If they didn't grant him that, he could have sued on the grounds of breach of contract.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:54 PM

1. What I would do today, in today's environment, is immaterial to what McQueary did 10 years ago. If you're point is that he made a bad decision, I would agree.

A bad decision, is putting it mildly. McQueary, Paterno, and the the 4 others who failed to call the police to report a possible rape of a child is being an accomplice to child rape.

2. I hate to break this to you, but the University Police are real police. If you don't believe me, feel free to call K3CWP. He's a former police officer for State College, and he is (as far as I know) currently the magistrate for the Borough, which includes the Penn State campus.

Fair enough. However, the police, nor campus police, were ever contacted. See the article I posted above.

3. Let me make this very clear:

I do not condone in any manner child molestation of any kind. However... Jerry Sandusky has yet to be brought to trial. He has not confessed to the crimes he is alleged to have committed. Therefore, technically, and my stomach turns as I have to say this, he is not a convicted molester or rapist and as such can not legally be treated as such.

I should also point out to you the incident a few years back with the Duke Lacrosse team. Those kids were also tried and convicted in the media... and it only came out later that the accuser was lying and the DA fabricated or manipulated evidence and facts in an attempt to convict the students accused. I am NOT saying that I believe Sandusky is innocent... I AM saying that we should not lynch the man based on what the media is reporting in 15 second sound bites and Twitter tweets.

I'm not going by 15 second sound bites. I'm going on the fact that 4 have been charged, and are awaiting trial. And, 15 victims thus far have come forward.

And, Paterno got what he deserved.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 08:54 PM

He retired as a Professor Emeritus. As such, he was entitled to an office and access to the facility. If they didn't grant him that, he could have sued on the grounds of breach of contract.

Right, so why didn't they just call the police, and let the police know he was raping kids?

Oh right, gotta keep team morale up.

W3WN

01-23-2012, 08:58 PM

I dunno, but Paterno admitted he was told by McQueary, and McQueary told the grand jury the same thing.

Personally, I'd call the police. And, I'd ask the rapist to never come around here again.

I'm just repeating the statements to the grand jury. It's ok: You want to idolize a person who helped destroy at least 9 people's lives.

Campus cops can issue tickets, which carry no power off campus, and detain a person until the police arrive. Just like mall cops.

It's easy to get out of a campus ticket: Don't go on campus again. I have like 10 outstanding campus tickets.

If somebody comes up and tells me you were raping a kid in the shower, all I could do is dial 9-1-1; and his ass would be arrested.

What Paterno did is basically nothing: He called his boss, and the director of finance. He never even called campus cops.

http://www.menshealth.com/health/why-joe-paterno-didnt-call-police

Stand up for Paterno now. He never called the police. He called the person in charge of marketing for the sport's team.You're quoting a rag like Mens Health as proof of who did what? What the hell?

That's it. Clearly you do not know a damn thing about how that place works. You clearly have never dealt with the University Police up there, but denigrate them to prove your point. You downplay the two administators -- Paterno's boss, and HIS boss who was the man in charge of the police, ie, the Head Cop if you will... to prove your point.

And now you're making personal aspersions towards me. I'm telling you to get your facts straight before you rush to judgement, and you reply that I'm "idolizing" the man you'r dumping crap on, just because I don't like what you're doing.

I can't type what I want to say here, as it will cross the line.

Must be nice to know everything and be so self-riteous.

NA4BH

01-23-2012, 09:02 PM

This isn't gonna end well, I just know it.

KC2UGV

01-23-2012, 09:10 PM

You're quoting a rag like Mens Health as proof of who did what? What the hell?

I quoted the Head of PA State Police. He said Joe Paterno didn't do enough. And, I cited the Grand Jury report. Men's Health just laid out the sources and quotes quite well.

Look at the sources directly yourself if you like. Make sure you read the detailed reports of child rape included in there, and the obviousness in which it all occurred; making it near impossible for the staff to NOT know what was going on.

That's it. Clearly you do not know a damn thing about how that place works. You clearly have never dealt with the University Police up there, but denigrate them to prove your point. You downplay the two administators -- Paterno's boss, and HIS boss who was the man in charge of the police, ie, the Head Cop if you will... to prove your point.

What I know, that if I was a person with the influence Paterno had, I would not let a child rapist near kids, in my school. And, I would have made at least one call to the State AG, and State Police.

And now you're making personal aspersions towards me. I'm telling you to get your facts straight before you rush to judgement, and you reply that I'm "idolizing" the man you'r dumping crap on, just because I don't like what you're doing.

I've got my facts straight: Joe Paterno aided, and abetted a child rapist, knowingly. If he didn't know what was going on, he's the world's biggest idiot.

I can't type what I want to say here, as it will cross the line.

Must be nice to know everything and be so self-riteous.

I know how to dial 9-1-1. Not all 9-1-1 calls get routed to campus police. In fact, off campus, they go to this thing called a 911 dispatch center, which then alerts the police. Which, if off campus, aren't the campus police.

I know if I heard about the possibility of someone maybe raping one of your kids (Or anyone else's), and that someone was a direct report of mine, I'd make damn sure he was never in contact with any kids until exonerated. And, I wouldn't stop at calling campus police. And I'd make sure he never had access to the facility again.

Especially if I were a person of influence such as Paterno.

What I WOULDN'T do, is have a blase attitude, a laisses faire approach. Like, "Well, the boss never got back to me, so whatever. Must be a-ok."

n6hcm

01-23-2012, 09:27 PM

I suspect the answer is somewhere in between what Corey believes and what Ron believes.

i agree with this. i don't think the general public will ever know the truth, and it's probably futile to try.

W7XF

01-23-2012, 10:20 PM

Can we please quit beating a dead horse? JoePa is SK...dead men tell no tales.

Methinks it's time for the padlock.

W4GPL

01-23-2012, 11:13 PM

I can't type what I want to say here, as it will cross the line. What line? Say it.. :)

W1GUH

01-24-2012, 09:03 AM

You're quoting a rag like Mens Health as proof of who did what? What the hell?

That's it. Clearly you do not know a damn thing about how that place works. You clearly have never dealt with the University Police up there, but denigrate them to prove your point. You downplay the two administators -- Paterno's boss, and HIS boss who was the man in charge of the police, ie, the Head Cop if you will... to prove your point.

And now you're making personal aspersions towards me. I'm telling you to get your facts straight before you rush to judgement, and you reply that I'm "idolizing" the man you'r dumping crap on, just because I don't like what you're doing.

I can't type what I want to say here, as it will cross the line.

Must be nice to know everything and be so self-riteous.

And now you're making personal aspersions towards me.

Welcome to the club. Been wondering about that particular aspect of the Island a LOT lately -- seems to be SOP amongst some of the residents.

N8YX

01-24-2012, 09:16 AM

Welcome to the club. Been wondering about that particular aspect of the Island a LOT lately -- seems to be SOP amongst some of the residents.
If this is a problem and results in loss of participation and/or unwillingness for new folks to join, how do we go about fixing it while preserving the "freer speech" component?

KC2UGV

01-24-2012, 09:29 AM

........

WX7P

01-24-2012, 09:30 AM

If this is a problem and results in loss of participation and/or unwillingness for new folks to join, how do we go about fixing it while preserving the "freer speech" component?

I don't think there is a rampant problem with this.

Occasionally, like in this example, a member may be too closely tied to a subject. Hard feeling may result when the topic or icon in analyzed in less than a favorable light. No value judgment here, I understand everyone has their passions and strong interests, but it can lead to the presumption of personal attack when there isn't one. It depends on the topic and if one is paying attention, you'll know what is going to set someone off specifically.

We have some members here, fortunately a very small minority, who seem to think that any disagreement with them is a personal attack. I have a very basic rule that I follow which is If you can't defend what you post, don't post it. Some people don't seem to understand that concept, and go into victim mode when they are questioned. This sort of cheap tactic is an attempt to stifle debate and should be left on the playground or in soap operas where it belongs.

W1GUH

01-24-2012, 09:56 AM

I don't think there is a rampant problem with this.

Occasionally, like in this example, a member may be too closely tied to a subject. Hard feeling may result when the topic or icon in analyzed in less than a favorable light. No value judgment here, I understand everyone has their passions and strong interests, but it can lead to the presumption of personal attack when either there isn't one. It depends on the topic and if one is paying attention, you'll know what is going to set someone off specifically.

We have some members here, fortunately a very small minority, who seem to think that any disagreement with them is a personal attack. I have a very basic rule that I follow which is If you can't defend what you post, don't post it. Some people don't seem to understand that concept, and go into victim mode when they are questioned. This sort of cheap tactic is an attempt to stifle debate and should be left on the playground or in soap operas where it belongs.

We have some members here, fortunately a very small minority, who seem to think that any disagreement with them is a personal attack. I have a very basic rule that I follow which is If you can't defend what you post, don't post it. Some people don't seem to understand that concept, and go into victim mode when they are questioned. This sort of cheap tactic is an attempt to stifle debate and should be left on the playground or in soap operas where it belongs.

Looked in a mirror lately? YOU, my friend, are one who, at the slightest disagreement or expression of an idea that you find disturbing are the ABSOLUTE FIRST to come out with your claws unsheated and the venom spewing. You don't know you do that? Read some of your posts. You have NEVER responded to my ideas with rational defense of you position. You have ALWAYS come out spewing venom.

KC2UGV

01-24-2012, 10:05 AM

What line? Say it.. :)

Come on, he already said I'm on par with Sue :lol:

WX7P

01-24-2012, 10:17 AM

Looked in a mirror lately? YOU, my friend, are one who, at the slightest disagreement or expression of an idea that you find disturbing are the ABSOLUTE FIRST to come out with your claws unsheated and the venom spewing. You don't know you do that? Read some of your posts. You have NEVER responded to my ideas with rational defense of you position. You have ALWAYS come out spewing venom.

Give it a rest, Paul. I already told you what I think in a PM.

Accept my comments, and move on. I'm not going to debate this with you publicly any further.

on Edit: NO ONE CARES

W1GUH

01-24-2012, 10:28 AM

Give it a rest, Paul. I already told you what I think in a PM.

Accept my comments, and move on. I'm not going to debate this with you publicly any further.

on Edit: NO ONE CARES

Wrong on at least two points. What PM? Never got it. Another of your fantasies?

About "no one cares" you're also dead wrong. I care very much about you, and that's sincere. You appear to have a huge blind spot that won't accept that you actually do what you do -- I'm doing you a favor by pointing it out. But....if you're so hung up on yourself that you don't think that that kind of feedback is helpful and important in growing as a person...well, maybe you will someday and you'll get past the name-calling that you are so enamored of.

Could be that the only person that doesn't care is yourself?

BTW....when I say, "Attack the idea not the person", those are not my words. Those are words I've learned in every single course, lecture, seminar I've been to that dealt with communication. Attacking the person simply is an admission that you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion but can't let go, so you lash out by putting down the person you disagree with. That's general knowledge, everywhere. But...seems that some people just don't accept that. Well, everyone's different.