Car troubles...

[N2CHX]

So mechanically inclined ham peeps... I have a 97 Dodge Intrepid which up until today, ran perfectly. This morning I start it up and have a LOT of trouble starting it. It finally runs but really rough. I pull it out of the driveway and out to a stop sign, where it stalls a bunch of times and smells like something is burning. I finally get it running again and limp it back home. Walking back to the house, I notice a red glow under the car which I thought at first must have been some weird status indicator LED warning of trouble. I look under the car and the exhaust pipe is glowing. WTF? So I bring hubby outside to show him and by that time the pipe has cooled off. I start it again and try to move it and it's actually running better and has power again, but now my brake pedal goes all the way to the floor and I have no brakes. Again, WTF?

I was trying to make it to spring with this car before retiring it but now it looks like it won't make it. Any ideas? I've never, ever seen anything like this before.

[N8YX]

Glowing exhaust = excessively lean fuel mixture or a hanging exhaust valve which allows fuel to burn in the pipe...instead of the cylinders.

Diagnose the first via an OBD-II code scanner; the second with a compression tester.

The timing may be off as well. What type of engine does your car have?

[N2CHX]

Glowing exhaust = excessively lean fuel mixture or a hanging exhaust valve which allows fuel to burn in the pipe...instead of the cylinders.

Diagnose the first via an OBD-II code scanner; the second with a compression tester.

OK, that answers one question. What about the brakes? Coincidence or maybe the heat burned a brake line? Too dark out yet to really look at it.

[N8YX]

OK, that answers one question. What about the brakes? Coincidence or maybe the heat burned a brake line? Too dark out yet to really look at it.
I would suspect a vacuum leak, and possibly a melted brake hose (if any are rubber). Look at all of the rubber hoses running from the engine to the brake booster. A leak in the lines can also affect timing if the engine uses a vacuum advancer mechanism.

[N2CHX]

I would suspect a vacuum leak, and possibly a melted brake hose (if any are rubber). Look at all of the rubber hoses running from the engine to the brake booster. A leak in the lines can also affect timing if the engine uses a vacuum advancer mechanism.

Well, the car is 7 months out of inspection (I've been lucky) and it might pass, it might not. I only paid 1500 for it two years ago and I've put no money into it. I'm thinking it's just time to retire it because it sounds like fixing it is gonna be way more than it's worth.

[N8YX]

Well, the car is 7 months out of inspection (I've been lucky) and it might pass, it might not. I only paid 1500 for it two years ago and I've put no money into it. I'm thinking it's just time to retire it because it sounds like fixing it is gonna be way more than it's worth.
"....the engine's thumping like a disco;
We ought to dump 'er in the bay..."

[KC2UGV]

His advice sounds better than mine :)

[KC2UGV]

Well, the car is 7 months out of inspection (I've been lucky) and it might pass, it might not. I only paid 1500 for it two years ago and I've put no money into it. I'm thinking it's just time to retire it because it sounds like fixing it is gonna be way more than it's worth.

Unless you buy another beater; fixing it is still the best way to go, usually.

[ki4itv]

"....the engine's thumping like a disco;
We ought to dump 'er in the bay..."
Somebody did that in 'The James' two weeks ago and forgot to get out. Disposed of both of them.
Don't forget to get out.

[W5GA]

Glowing exhaust = excessively lean fuel mixture or a hanging exhaust valve which allows fuel to burn in the pipe...instead of the cylinders.

Diagnose the first via an OBD-II code scanner; the second with a compression tester.

The timing may be off as well. What type of engine does your car have?
Gotta disagree here, Fred.
In a computer controlled car, a glowing pipe is usually caused by unburned fuel being burned in the catalytic converter. At this point, said converter is probably dead - they don't take kindly to that much fuel.
Timing in this car is completely at the whim of the computer, and based on sensory inputs. There is nothing that can be adjusted.
Brake pedal to the floor isn't caused by a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak will cause a stiff pedal. To the floor indicates that (usually) the master cylinder is toast due to internal leaks, or there are leaks elsewhere in the system that have caused it to run out of brake fluid, or (extreme case) the brakes are so badly worn that a seal in one of the brake assemblies at the wheels has come unseated, allowing the fluid to run on the ground. The latter is always accompanied by BAD noises well before hand.

[N2CHX]

Gotta disagree here, Fred.
In a computer controlled car, a glowing pipe is usually caused by unburned fuel being burned in the catalytic converter. At this point, said converter is probably dead - they don't take kindly to that much fuel.
Timing in this car is completely at the whim of the computer, and based on sensory inputs. There is nothing that can be adjusted.
Brake pedal to the floor isn't caused by a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak will cause a stiff pedal. To the floor indicates that (usually) the master cylinder is toast due to internal leaks, or there are leaks elsewhere in the system that have caused it to run out of brake fluid, or (extreme case) the brakes are so badly worn that a seal in one of the brake assemblies at the wheels has come unseated, allowing the fluid to run on the ground. The latter is always accompanied by BAD noises well before hand.

Well, the car made no bad noises before this morning. Everything but the transmission slipping when really cold in the morning was OK until now. I did forget though, I have put a little bit of money into it. Aside from oil changes, I put a new battery in it and new front tires on it when I put it back on the road in December. Last spring a mechanic looked at it and said everything was OK with it, because I was paranoid about the brakes not passing inspection (seems like brakes get me every time) but by summer I wasn't driving it anymore and didn't care so I didn't bother to actually get in inspected. This weird thing this morning is completely out of the blue.

[N8YX]

This Xoom isn't doing well at allowing me to quote...but if the brake booster diaphragm is compromised then vacuum will be lost. One of the engine sensors is vacuum level - an out-of-limits condition will force the timing logic into failsafe settings...even possibly fully retarded.

5196

More puzzling is why the exhaust would light up under the hood. If the catcon was burning fuel in sufficient quantities to get the header red-hot, just where was the fuel coming from? Does the primary converter use an air-injection mechanism...and if so, could the fuel have come through it? Or would a surplus air stream be enough to fully combust any residual fuel?

[K7SGJ]

Gotta disagree here, Fred.
In a computer controlled car, a glowing pipe is usually caused by unburned fuel being burned in the catalytic converter. At this point, said converter is probably dead - they don't take kindly to that much fuel.
Timing in this car is completely at the whim of the computer, and based on sensory inputs. There is nothing that can be adjusted.
Brake pedal to the floor isn't caused by a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak will cause a stiff pedal. To the floor indicates that (usually) the master cylinder is toast due to internal leaks, or there are leaks elsewhere in the system that have caused it to run out of brake fluid, or (extreme case) the brakes are so badly worn that a seal in one of the brake assemblies at the wheels has come unseated, allowing the fluid to run on the ground. The latter is always accompanied by BAD noises well before hand.

That gets my vote. I had a vehicle that ran great. All of a sudden hard to start and ran for shit. Then it ran great, then crappy, then not at all. The exhaust got hotter than hell. The cat converter fell apart internally, and pieces would block the exhaust, clear itself, and block it even worse the next time until it just totally blocked it. The brakes are a little puzzling since they went at the same time. Not being familiar with that vehicle, is there any possibility one of the rubber parts of the brake lines, or any part of the brake system goes or is near the exhaust? The excessive heat may have compromised something.

[WX7P]

Doug's correct, it's probably the cat converter. It'd cost more than the car is worth to repair. At least in California, you can't go to the local junkyard and get a used cat converter, I suspect the laws are the same in NY state.

Craiglist that Intrepid or junk it.

[N2CHX]

I took a look at it this morning after it got light out. Can't see anything, the hood's so packed under there. Gonna junk it. I can work on motorcycles all day long but I take one look at a car and just shudder. I hate the things. Unfortunately it means I have some decisions to make like RIGHT NOW that I really didn't want to have to make until a month from now or more, but...

Thanks for all your input. I know there's a bunch of smart guys on here so this is the first place I posted.

[WØTKX]

Catalytic is likely. Years ago one of my Opels got a clogged up muffler and it made the exhaust pipe and header glow cherry red... And it ran like shit, similar to what's described here. Thought it was timing or valves at first. When I disconnected the header at the exhaust pipe, it ran much better, loud, no more glowing pipes.. A moment of AHA!

No computer, carbureted.

[kb2crk]

sounds like a broken up cat converter. the brakes are a separate issue unless the heat caused the fluid to boil in which case it could be air in the system. more than likely a bad master cylinder or a broken brake hose at one of the wheels. an aftermarket converter (legal in NY but not cali) could be installed for around $350 depending on labor rates. if the brake pads wore worn down far enough the master cylinder could be out of fluid. there are several possibilities and none are dirt cheap but at a best case scenario it may be cheaper to fix than replace the car.

[W7XF]

Doug's correct, it's probably the cat converter. It'd cost more than the car is worth to repair. At least in California, you can't go to the local junkyard and get a used cat converter, I suspect the laws are the same in NY state.

Craiglist that Intrepid or junk it.
That's not only in Califailia, but ANYWHERE anymore. The price for platinum and palladium has the junkyards cutting out the catcons and selling them for the precioius metal values. And, in MANY states, you can't go to the local parts stores and buy a universal catcon...in fact, when I lived in Cali, you had to have a smog inspect/repair licence to buy a cat.

Kelli....time for another beater.

[KG4CGC]

I agree that the brakes are a separate issue though possibly caused by the intense heat under the hood.
Then there is the O2 sensor. A malfunctioning O2 sensor has been known to fry catcon in some models due to the computer trying to compensate based on the bad reading. A code reader would help pinpoint the exact area to look at first but I'd also check for bad ground connections. Which ones and where? Just gotta get dirty.
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=219515 <As mentioned here, AutoZone and AdvanceAuto should be able to do a code test.
This may be helpful: http://www.ehow.com/how_5168197_check-light-code-dodge-intrepid.html
Post 3 here may be of help: http://www.ihav.net/vb/american-muscle/how-do-i-reset-computer-my-dodge-403778.html
Post 5 here: http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-neon/50346-reset-computer.html
Another view: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_a_reset_button_in_98_Dodge_Intrepid_to_ge t_the_computer_system_back_on_after_a_rear_end_col lision
More: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_reset_computer_on_95_Dodge_Intrepid
Been reading up on several sites and even a loose gas cap can cause catastrophic failure because it will cause a bad reading at a pressure/vacuum sensor ... at least in some cases.
Read up what you can and listen to your gut. Start simple and go from there.
You know, if the fuel injectors have sat and are blocked up, it will also cause a lean condition if the computer is not able to make up for it. We have crap for gas in this country especially if the car has sat for any period of time. Ethanol is water based and turns into a sludgy goo if it sits in a gas tank and gas lines for a while.

[WØTKX]

And the OBD-II code scanner should show the status of the (2) oxygen sensors.

One on each side. As well as injector issues. :yes:

[KC9ECI]

I had a glowing cat conv with a Beretta once. 6 cyl eng, one coil pack for each pair. Coil pack shit the bed. Unburned fuel.

[N8YX]

The catcon angle is interesting.

'DSG's Mazda Protege has eaten four of them (two front; two rear) since she bought it new and not once did the car exhibit the symptoms being described here.

I'll be sure to file this one away for future reference.

[n2ize]

I would vote for a bad catalytic converter. Esp. if you say the pipes were glowing red. They get pretty darned hot in normal operation, when they go bad....

[W5GA]

This Xoom isn't doing well at allowing me to quote...but if the brake booster diaphragm is compromised then vacuum will be lost. One of the engine sensors is vacuum level - an out-of-limits condition will force the timing logic into failsafe settings...even possibly fully retarded.
Sometimes true. A pinhole in the booster diaphragm will cause the pedal to be stiff, but usually isn't enough to set a code. If it does set a code, the computer will revert to closed loop (failsafe) which is the same mode it's in when the engine is cold. It then runs that way full time, putting too much fuel in the engine after it's warmed up.
More puzzling is why the exhaust would light up under the hood. If the catcon was burning fuel in sufficient quantities to get the header red-hot, just where was the fuel coming from? Does the primary converter use an air-injection mechanism...and if so, could the fuel have come through it? Or would a surplus air stream be enough to fully combust any residual fuel?
True to a point. A pinhole in the vacuum booster may not be enough to set a code, but it will cause a stiff brake pedal. A complete diaphragm failure will set a code, cause a stiff pedal, and put the ECM into closed loop mode. The timing will go to its initial setting, where ever that is, and stay there until the problem is corrected. In fact, in closed loop, I believe the only sensor that has any impact is the throttle position sensor. These are the same conditions present when the engine is cold, but now you have all the extra fuel going in that a cold engine needs to run, although the engine if fully warmed up. If it stays that way long enough, the converter overheats...a whole lot. It also ruins the converter in the process. The overheated converter then starts to fall apart internally, blocking exhaust flow, compounding the problem.