Think it's time to bring this up....

[W1GUH]

Been watching frequent programs on History, History International, NatGeo, and Discovery. And, I think, others. All of them have been very well produced and present the information very well. Since this is multiple channels and several programs IMHO -- YMMV the credibility has to be considered high.

The content has changed dramatically over the course of the last year, and suggest that there might be something coming down the pike.


































OK...put this down here to ensure that you didn't see the subject til you read the introduction up there. The subject is UFO's. The dramatic change is that there are more and more very credible and un-debunkable incidents involving NASA, ATC, NORAD, several LEO's and airline pilots. IMHO, this is significant. All of the reports are very well presented in detail including audio and video, including several audio recordings of ATC communications.

These is such a high level of "un-debunkable-ness" to these incidents that there are no debunkers. All I'm saying here is that, if you don't find this subject at this level too disturbing, these shows are worth checking out for the reasons I've outlined. No more, no less.

The shows are:

UFO Files and UFO Hunters primarily, and even Brad Metzer's decoded has had a show about this. There are other shows with other names with unique titles.

Also, Ancient Aliens has shown some startlingly surprising things.

Just sayin'

[N7YA]

Its always been a popular subject to argue about, and that means ratings. I personally believe in that stuff, not from a tinfoil hat perspective, but from personal experience. I just think these channels always have their finger on the pulse of the viewership for maximum impact, that subject is popular again so it stands to reason, air it!.

Despite what some here may or may not believe, paranormal/ghost experiences have been reported regularly for thousands of years by credible, and often times freaked out, sources. But ghost shows have become wildly popular only in recent years, nobody in tv really touched the subject before, but now? Its just production and marketing.

[K7SGJ]

I watched a documentary when I was a kid called My Favorite Martian. Made a believer outa me.

[W1GUH]

Hear what you're saying about ratings. Must be huge interest in this considering the expense of producing these. The productions reflect large budgets. And new episodes are come out frequently.



Its always been a popular subject to argue about, and that means ratings. I personally believe in that stuff, not from a tinfoil hat perspective, but from personal experience. I just think these channels always have their finger on the pulse of the viewership for maximum impact, that subject is popular again so it stands to reason, air it!.

Despite what some here may or may not believe, paranormal/ghost experiences have been reported regularly for thousands of years by credible, and often times freaked out, sources. But ghost shows have become wildly popular only in recent years, nobody in tv really touched the subject before, but now? Its just production and marketing.

[n2ize]

You cannot actually debunk the existence of ufo's or extraterrestrial visitations. It is possible to debunk individual ufo sightings if it can be shown they are 1) actually fraudulent or 2) provide a better fit description of what was actually sighted. Unfortunately many ufo sightings are brief, limited, or inconclusive and can neither be debunked nor proved to be some sort of extraterrestrial visitation. Modern Physics does indicate there are possible means by which extraterrestrials could visit our "world". However I would remain skeptical of anyone who claims they saw a ufo and claims that it "proves the existence of extraterrestrials". Likewise I would also be skeptical of anyone who denies or scoffs at the entire ufo phenomenon as it is indeed possible that we could be visited by extraterrestrials.

That said, yes, there is a proliferation of media dealing with ufo's, ghosts and so called "paranormal", spirits, etc. However, little if any real science or scientific evidence is gained through these shows. Yes, I know some use frequency counters, receivers, emf detectors, infrared photography to "measure" ghost activity. However, many of these experiments fail to rule out other causes for these so called "spirit energies". For instance, that "figure" that appeared in an IR photo. Could it be possible that someone was standing in that spot moments earlier and the instrument is picking up their "infrared footprint" or some other heat source ? Likewise, if that EMF being produced by the local ghost that inhabits that long abandoned facility or, is the instrument responding to a local radio station, police radio, ham operator, or power line induced emf, security device, etc. Unfortunately most "ghost experiments" I've seen lack the control needed to yield true scientific data.

But nonetheless, they do make for good campfire tales. ;)

[N7YA]

John, only one show does all the cross referencing and debunking, thats Ghosthunters. Other shows are guilty of exactly what you are saying. They look for things like 'could a falling pinecone sound like footsteps on the patio?', or 'the plumbing can explain the knocking sounds'. They are well aware of reflections on IR, they go back to where they got footage and look around for anything at all that could explain what they caught. If they can find nothing, they only say maybe, or we dont know. I am all about the science and the facts, i have no use for emotional searching and "wanting" to see something...either you did, and you examine the hell out of it, or you didnt. They have a saying i like, "When in doubt, throw it out".

Now, by no means am i trying to convince you of anything...at all....ever! Debating this subject is useless and uninteresting to me. If you dont believe, then i will simply agree with you...for real. I am totally at peace with skepticism because i am one. :)

[KG4CGC]

Same group of channels, now teaching everyone how to grow pot, make moonshine and build guns. Wild West, here we come!

[WØTKX]

Weed Wars. Now, we need a show called Poppy Potentates. :snicker:

[KC2UGV]

Its always been a popular subject to argue about, and that means ratings. I personally believe in that stuff, not from a tinfoil hat perspective, but from personal experience. I just think these channels always have their finger on the pulse of the viewership for maximum impact, that subject is popular again so it stands to reason, air it!.

Despite what some here may or may not believe, paranormal/ghost experiences have been reported regularly for thousands of years by credible, and often times freaked out, sources. But ghost shows have become wildly popular only in recent years, nobody in tv really touched the subject before, but now? Its just production and marketing.

I regularly investigated reports of paranormal activity. I've yet to be convinced. I have yet to find a paranormal occurrence that is unexplained.

I have a standing invitation to any clergymen or independent actors to record and document a possession. Not a single taker, yet.

[W1GUH]

John, only one show does all the cross referencing and debunking, thats Ghosthunters. Other shows are guilty of exactly what you are saying. They look for things like 'could a falling pinecone sound like footsteps on the patio?', or 'the plumbing can explain the knocking sounds'. They are well aware of reflections on IR, they go back to where they got footage and look around for anything at all that could explain what they caught. If they can find nothing, they only say maybe, or we dont know. I am all about the science and the facts, i have no use for emotional searching and "wanting" to see something...either you did, and you examine the hell out of it, or you didnt. They have a saying i like, "When in doubt, throw it out".

Now, by no means am i trying to convince you of anything...at all....ever! Debating this subject is useless and uninteresting to me. If you dont believe, then i will simply agree with you...for real. I am totally at peace with skepticism because i am one. :)

"John, only one show does all the cross referencing and debunking,.."

I should like to point out that UFO Hunters does exactly that. The format of the show is a team of researchers who check out in detail the reports they investigate, from many different points of view. And, sometimes, they come to the conclusion that the incident was, in fact, an illusion. Other times they can't do that. Depends on the incident. Sometimes makes the show boring...but then, serious investigation can be like that a lot of times.

[N7YA]

I regularly investigated reports of paranormal activity. I've yet to be convinced. I have yet to find a paranormal occurrence that is unexplained.

I have a standing invitation to any clergymen or independent actors to record and document a possession. Not a single taker, yet.

Im with you on possessions. I have yet to see an atheist get "possessed", the clergy would argue that they already are by proxy simply because they are an atheist. That leaves a smirk on my face.

Many ghost reports are also emotionally based, meaning the person really wanted to see a ghost, so their mind will matrix in explainable things (coupled with a lack of understanding of basic physics and how everyday things work) and create a special experience that they can feel they were finally a part of. I have absolutely no interest in this.

I hate looking like a fool, and nothing does that more than making a big deal out of something you think you saw, then someone points out the very normal thing that caused it. I have had paranormal experiences that my knowledge of physics and construction couldnt explain away, so instead of jumping up and down yelling that ive seen a ghost, i quietly file it under "hmmm, that was weird", and leave it at that. There is still a lot of science we have yet to explain so why not?

But again, and this is very important, i sincerely have no interest in trying to convince anyone of anything, were just chatting here. I will always try to see the other side of things and will never argue with you.

[N7YA]

"John, only one show does all the cross referencing and debunking,.."

I should like to point out that UFO Hunters does exactly that. The format of the show is a team of researchers who check out in detail the reports they investigate, from many different points of view. And, sometimes, they come to the conclusion that the incident was, in fact, an illusion. Other times they can't do that. Depends on the incident. Sometimes makes the show boring...but then, serious investigation can be like that a lot of times.

I like boring, because it denotes a base in fact as opposed to sensasionalism. I dont really watch the UFO shows but i have heard of that one. From the same producers of GH, i believe.

[KG4CGC]

Anyone ever catch a head on view on a meteor? I have.

[K7SGJ]

Im with you on possessions. I have yet to see an atheist get "possessed", the clergy would argue that they already are by proxy simply because they are an atheist. That leaves a smirk on my face.

Many ghost reports are also emotionally based, meaning the person really wanted to see a ghost, so their mind will matrix in explainable things (coupled with a lack of understanding of basic physics and how everyday things work) and create a special experience that they can feel they were finally a part of. I have absolutely no interest in this.

I hate looking like a fool, and nothing does that more than making a big deal out of something you think you saw, then someone points out the very normal thing that caused it. I have had paranormal experiences that my knowledge of physics and construction couldnt explain away, so instead of jumping up and down yelling that ive seen a ghost, i quietly file it under "hmmm, that was weird", and leave it at that. There is still a lot of science we have yet to explain so why not?

But again, and this is very important, i sincerely have no interest in trying to convince anyone of anything, were just chatting here. I will always try to see the other side of things and will never argue with you.


Well, it's kinda like the thing they say about God. You can't prove there is, and I can't prove there isn't. I'm alot like you in that I've seen and experienced things not readily explainable, and they are just better kept to myself. And because of those experiences, I certainly believe extraterrestrials are way more likely than the guy in the sky.

[KC2UGV]

Well, it's kinda like the thing they say about God. You can't prove there is, and I can't prove there isn't. I'm alot like you in that I've seen and experienced things not readily explainable, and they are just better kept to myself. And because of those experiences, I certainly believe extraterrestrials are way more likely than the guy in the sky.

The chances of another life form similar to ours approaches 1 the further you get away from our planet. Given the numbers of stars, and the numbers of planets, and the numbers of galaxies; the chance of NO other instance of life is near 0.

[ka8ncr]

The chances of another life form similar to ours approaches 1 the further you get away from our planet. Given the numbers of stars, and the numbers of planets, and the numbers of galaxies; the chance of NO other instance of life is near 0.

But the chances of them getting here; pretty damned small in my estimation. Pretty big areas of nothingness out there.

Nevertheless, I always keep Slim Whitman in his own playlist on my iPhone, just in case. If you know what I'm sayin'.

[KG4CGC]

But the chances of them getting here; pretty damned small in my estimation. Pretty big areas of nothingness out there.

Nevertheless, I always keep Slim Whitman in his own playlist on my iPhone, just in case. If you know what I'm sayin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd4Zy77fDpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd4Zy77fDpo

[W3WN]

But the chances of them getting here; pretty damned small in my estimation. Pretty big areas of nothingness out there.

Nevertheless, I always keep Slim Whitman in his own playlist on my iPhone, just in case. If you know what I'm sayin'.Now, THAT was funny. That movie is the only time I can stand Slim Whitman, mainly because I'm laughing too hard.

[W1GUH]

But the chances of them getting here; pretty damned small in my estimation. Pretty big areas of nothingness out there.

Nevertheless, I always keep Slim Whitman in his own playlist on my iPhone, just in case. If you know what I'm sayin'.

Absolutely.

What else is "absolute" is the possibility that the vast amounts of time available could be the means by which they've developed technology to get them here.

After all the latest estimate of the length of time we've existed is basically negligible compared to the current estimate of the age of the known universe.

[WØTKX]

Maybe when we find the Higgs Boson (or not) we'll find out some more.

Recent developments hint that neutrinos can travel faster than light,
and instantaneous state changes with entangled diamonds are amusing.

Quite.

My personal hope is that THEY are here, and are too damn nice to mess with us.
Because we're too immature, and need to keep figuring out what really matters.

Not to mention what matter really is... :lol:

[NQ6U]

But the chances of them getting here; pretty damned small in my estimation. Pretty big areas of nothingness out there.

This is exactly right. Probability alone suggests that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, maybe even in our own galaxy, but the distances involved make it extremely unlikely that any of it has visited Earth. And ponder this: if they were somehow capable of FTL travel, why would they bother coming to this relatively primitive planet?

[W1GUH]

This is exactly right. Probability alone suggests that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, maybe even in our own galaxy, but the distances involved make it extremely unlikely that any of it has visited Earth. And ponder this: if they were somehow capable of FTL travel, why would they bother coming to this relatively primitive planet?

But the vast amounts of time that may be involved may make us really incapable of estimating the probability of the development of technology for such travel. As for why? Even less likely for us to assess.

[suddenseer]

I have had experiences that I still cannot explain. I call them outlier events that don't fit with the rest of my boring existence. I think the evidence is settled on the existence of UFO's as far as weird moving lights, or objects in the sky. As to what they are, or their origin, I have no answer and I don't think anyone else does either. If there is a far advanced civilization nearby I like the anthill near the interstate highway story. We are like the ants scurrying around doing our ant business. We are totally unaware of the highway, and associated activity going on just feet away. I like Dr Michio Kaku's description of our world. We still burn carbon for power, that keeps us like the ants.

I don't miss cable. The tv sits mostly on PBS. That commie station has taught my 3 year old granddaughter to read.

[n2ize]

John, only one show does all the cross referencing and debunking, thats Ghosthunters. Other shows are guilty of exactly what you are saying. They look for things like 'could a falling pinecone sound like footsteps on the patio?', or 'the plumbing can explain the knocking sounds'. They are well aware of reflections on IR, they go back to where they got footage and look around for anything at all that could explain what they caught. If they can find nothing, they only say maybe, or we dont know. I am all about the science and the facts, i have no use for emotional searching and "wanting" to see something...either you did, and you examine the hell out of it, or you didnt. They have a saying i like, "When in doubt, throw it out".

Now, by no means am i trying to convince you of anything...at all....ever! Debating this subject is useless and uninteresting to me. If you dont believe, then i will simply agree with you...for real. I am totally at peace with skepticism because i am one. :)

What I am saying is that I am skeptical about both those who say "it is 100% definitely a ufo, ghost etc." and those who say "it's 100% balderdash". It may be possible that there are extraterrestrial visitations, or things that we perceive as ghosts, spirits, etc. Science cannot prove a negative, I can't go about scientifically proving ufo's, ghosts, etc. don't exist. They may. I haven't experienced them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's good that some of the shows try to at least look for other possibilities and take what appears to a be a slightly scientific approach. Of course weThus far we don't know for certain if sauch things do exist and/or if they do what they are. And yes, I do have strong doubts. But that's just me.

In any event here is an interesting article discussing some of the mistakes made by many of the "Ghost hunting TV shows" and amateur ghost hunters. I am not saying everything said in this article is nessesarily valid but he does present a general idea of things that are done wrong.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ghost-hunting_mistakes_science_and_pseudoscience_in_ghos t_investigations

[n2ize]

This is exactly right. Probability alone suggests that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, maybe even in our own galaxy, but the distances involved make it extremely unlikely that any of it has visited Earth. And ponder this: if they were somehow capable of FTL travel, why would they bother coming to this relatively primitive planet?

They don;t have to travel FTL if they can warp time/space, a phenomenon that modern physics claims may be possible. However, to do that would require a huge amount of energy and if a civilization is that far advanced why would they waste their time trying to come and visit us. It's doubtful they could learn anything from us.

[w0aew]

Anyone ever catch a head on view on a meteor? I have.

I've been possessed by a meteor.

Twice!

[NQ6U]

I've been possessed by a meteor.

Twice!

I got hit by one when I was a child. Oh, wait—that was a Mercury Meteor.

[KC2UGV]

They don;t have to travel FTL if they can warp time/space, a phenomenon that modern physics claims may be possible. However, to do that would require a huge amount of energy and if a civilization is that far advanced why would they waste their time trying to come and visit us. It's doubtful they could learn anything from us.

Same reason we dig in dirt piles looking at broken pottery.

[KG4CGC]

I was looking up at the night sky when I noticed something like a planet that looked out of place. It started getting brighter and looked like it formed points as it got brighter. I was like, WTF? As it got bigger, it looked like it was spinning. Then suddenly as soon as it was getting bigger, it got dimmer and as it was fading out to an orange glow, the spinning slowed down and the orange glow faded to almost black and it looked like it just, floated off. I said to myself, "Damn. That was a meteor."

[W1GUH]

Kinda similar...

Before I knew how much space junk was out there, I saw a "star" moving. A little later, I saw as "star" moving at right angles. The illusion was...well...you know. Caused a few goose bumps.

Turns out what I saw was just two pieces of space junk. Then I started noticing that if you look at the same patch of sky for a little while, and not very long at that you'll see space junk go by. And if it's spinning it'll flash a pattern at a regular rate. Can raise goose bumps.

I've read that this is a problem for astronomers. Hard to get a good long-exposure of an object without at least one streak in it. There's an incredible amount of junk in orbit.

[n2ize]

. There's an incredible amount of junk in orbit.

My mind and body are in orbit.

[NQ6U]

There's an incredible amount of junk in orbit.


My mind and body are in orbit.

Q.E.D.

[KG4CGC]

<snip> And ponder this: if they were somehow capable of FTL travel, why would they bother coming to this relatively primitive planet?
To check up on their exiled DNA.

[N7YA]

What I am saying is that I am skeptical about both those who say "it is 100% definitely a ufo, ghost etc." and those who say "it's 100% balderdash". It may be possible that there are extraterrestrial visitations, or things that we perceive as ghosts, spirits, etc. Science cannot prove a negative, I can't go about scientifically proving ufo's, ghosts, etc. don't exist. They may. I haven't experienced them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's good that some of the shows try to at least look for other possibilities and take what appears to a be a slightly scientific approach. Of course weThus far we don't know for certain if sauch things do exist and/or if they do what they are. And yes, I do have strong doubts. But that's just me.

In any event here is an interesting article discussing some of the mistakes made by many of the "Ghost hunting TV shows" and amateur ghost hunters. I am not saying everything said in this article is nessesarily valid but he does present a general idea of things that are done wrong.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ghost-hunting_mistakes_science_and_pseudoscience_in_ghos t_investigations

Fair enough. Sounds like were saying the same thing, basically. I do believe, but not because i wanted to, its due to perhaps being in the right place/right time, etc...but it bases from personal experience, and a serious attempt to figure it out. My first assumption is never "GHOST!! Im in the special club now!!"...its usually "damn, is the plumbing breaking down?", "dust bunnies on the side of my eyeball" or something to that effect. It usually is explainable. Thats why i like GH, its the only show that approaches it from that angle, and doesnt try to make it all scary and boogety boogety. The very second they change that format, im done with them.

I used to like "My Ghost Story" because it was a series of clips and audio, one right after the other, then they just ran out of material apparently. Now they get pictures of dust passing in front of the IR, say its an "orb" (a fancy word for dust and bugs, IMO), a little bit of decent audio, and a bunch of people crying and relating that the 'orb' is definately their beloved grandmother coming back to take care of them. The they put in the heartfelt music, move the shot slowly in on them as they choke up...then i realize the show isnt about paranormal research, its a fat housewife show that should be on O or Lifetime.

Emotion sells, that makes it disappointing because it always ruins an otherwise good examination of something that should be investigated further. If you went to the doctor, and he got all emotional, animated and melodramatic like they do on most reality shows...would you ever go back?

[K7SGJ]

I got hit by one when I was a child. Oh, wait—that was a Mercury Meteor.

Me too, but mine was a Comet. It wasn't a heavenly body, but as I recall the driver was.

[NQ6U]

http://www.wingedmessenger.net/Images/63meteorPic.jpg