Any MS filght simulator pilots here?

[W1GUH]

Wanna fly together on-line? Never did that but it might be fun.

[N2CHX]

Sorry, I do Flightgear.

[W4GPL]

Do you use VATSIM? I'm on VATSIM..

[W1GUH]

Naw. Don't mess with others. Been with MS or Sublogic since day one and have always loved them. One thing MS has always done superbly. Tried that X-version when I had Unbuntu, but it broke linux, so I chucked it.

[W4GPL]

VATSIM is a plugin for FlightSim... it's what I used to use.. but haven't in quite some time due to logistics.

[W1GUH]

Oh, OK. I'll check it out. Thanks!

[kf0rt]

I crash more than I land, but have fun with FSX once in awhile. Might be interested, but only if you promise not to laugh too hard.

[W1GUH]

Why would anybody expect that promise here? :-D But of course I'll make it. We can keep it simple and just do the ultra-light.

[n2ize]

I used MS Flight Sim but haven't done it for a few years. I mainly used to fly vintage propliners, i.e. DC3, DC6, Constellation and turboprops (Lockheed Electra and FH-227). I primarily flew old Mohawk Airlines and Allegheny routes.(NYC-Albany, Buffalo) and tried to keep things as authentic as I could manage (including old schedules). Rarely crashed but had a hard landing now and then. Always got my passengers to their destination in one piece...

To do it again I would need a lot of practice and re-familiarization with the different planes, instruments, etc. Whole different "feel" between flying a Connie or a DC6 versus a modern day jet airliner.

I also used to fly a few helicopters but I was never too happy with MS Flight Sim helicopter simulation. MS Flight Sim is a good plank simulator. It is a lousy helicopter sim.

Oh, and I did fly some military jets on Ms. Flight Sim. Reasonable at subsonic speeds but not too good above Mach 1.

[W1GUH]

Usual practice is to fly long routes with the auto-pilot. Usually land with the auto-pilot, too. Takes a lot of the difficulty out of it. Sometimes I'll fly a Grumman Goose -- the first plane I ever took a ride in.

And John, I love that route. Been over it many, many time between the east coast and Michighan in all modes; Driving, Flying and the train. Very scenic and of great historical significance. Where the 20th Century Limited and the Erie Canal were/are.

[n2ize]

Usual practice is to fly long routes with the auto-pilot. Usually land with the auto-pilot, too. Takes a lot of the difficulty out of it. Sometimes I'll fly a Grumman Goose -- the first plane I ever took a ride in.

The autopilot is helpful on route. Or, whatever version of "autopilot" exists in a given vintage propliner. Sometimes just a heading hold, lock on to a VOR, or, ADF. landing I always shut the autopilot off and use instruments, glideslope or, sometimes just visual. its all fun but a far cry from the real thing. Nonetheless, it does give you a taste of what its like.



And John, I love that route. Been over it many, many time between the east coast and Michighan in all modes; Driving, Flying and the train. Very scenic and of great historical significance. Where the 20th Century Limited and the Erie Canal were/are.

Mohawk flew several routes. I remember their FH227's between LaGuardia and Albany. And, who can forget the "Gaslight Service".

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR36.jpg

Your Stewardess

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR40.jpg

Inside the gaslighter DC3, Air travel just ain't what it used to be.

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR45.jpg


http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR41.jpg

[W1GUH]

We called 'em Mochuck Airlines. The first flights on AA from DTW->BOS stopped in Buffalo and Albany going east, and Syracuse and Rochester going west, on an Electra. Then, the same route was flown in BAC-111's. The only non-stops were in 727's, but those were the days when they were crashing, so I avoided them. Finally, it turned into 707's non-stop both ways.

Tried the Mochuck $25 RT flights once, UGH! Besides, with student standby, the OW flights between the cities was 20.69, so no big deal.

[n2ize]

We called 'em Mochuck Airlines. The first flights on AA from DTW->BOS stopped in Buffalo and Albany going east, and Syracuse and Rochester going west, on an Electra. Then, the same route was flown in BAC-111's. The only non-stops were in 727's, but those were the days when they were crashing, so I avoided them. Finally, it turned into 707's non-stop both ways.

Tried the Mochuck $25 RT flights once, UGH! Besides, with student standby, the OW flights between the cities was 20.69, so no big deal.

You sure it was an Electra ? To my knowledge neither Allegeney nor Mohawk had any Electra's in its fleet.. If it was in the late 60's or 70's it was more likely an FH227. Like this

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR92.jpg

Incidentally, I think this is the exact same aircraft that plowed into a house in Albany in winter of 1972.

[W1GUH]

You sure it was an Electra ? To my knowledge neither Allegeney nor Mohawk had any Electra's in its fleet.. If it was in the late 60's or 70's it was more likely an FH227. Like this

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR92.jpg

Incidentally, I think this is the exact same aircraft that plowed into a house in Albany in winter of 1972.

Sorry I didn't make it clearer,Jonh. That was on American Airlines, back when there a really great Airline. Still have fond memories of those flights. Especially the ones where I splurged $10 for First Class & had Scotch and Sirloin on board!

Loved when the Electras would land and reverse the props!

[edit]

Was that '227 the one where they had to douse the lights in the cabin to start the engines? Was on one of those in '77 fying from Champagne, Ill. to Chicago. Real confidence booster!

[n2ize]

Sorry I didn't make it clearer,Jonh. That was on American Airlines, back when there a really great Airline. Still have fond memories of those flights. Especially the ones where I splurged $10 for First Class & had Scotch and Sirloin on board!

Loved when the Electras would land and reverse the props!

[edit]

Was that '227 the one where they had to douse the lights in the cabin to start the engines? Was on one of those in '77 fying from Champagne, Ill. to Chicago. Real confidence booster!

Not to my knowledge. But I only rode on one once. It had two turboprops.I believe they had a very good safety record. The Electra had some problems. It had 4 turboprops. . I'd imagine the FH-227 and the Electra probably sounded similar on reverse thrust.

When you mentioned AA I thought you meant Allegheny Airlines.

[n2ize]

We called 'em Mochuck Airlines. .

Mochuck (Mohawk) was originally Robinson Airlines. They started sometime back in the 1930's. I believe Mohawk also had the Martin 404 in their fleet.

[W1GUH]

Not to my knowledge. But I only rode on one once. It had two turboprops.I believe they had a very good safety record. The Electra had some problems. It had 4 turboprops. . I'd imagine the FH-227 and the Electra probably sounded similar on reverse thrust.

When you mentioned AA I thought you meant Allegheny Airlines.

Ah! Allegooney or Agony Airlines. But, to be fair, when the morphed into US Air, they became pretty good. Flew the a few times that last 2 years and they're ok.

[NQ6U]

While I used to enjoy long cross-country flights in a real airplane, I never could get into doing the same thing on a flight sim—not being able to look down at interesting things on the ground makes it seem rather tedious to me. Practicing landings and aerobatics are more fun; I especially like making carrier landings on the sims that allow that. Whenever I make a good one I think about my father, who did that in the real world in a lumbering TBM/TBF Avenger torpedo bomber back during WW II. Man, that took some balls and yet he's the humblest guy I know.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/Avenger_tbf_No53_preserved_USA.jpg

[n2ize]

Ah! Allegooney or Agony Airlines. But, to be fair, when the morphed into US Air, they became pretty good. Flew the a few times that last 2 years and they're ok.

Mohawk was pretty good in the early days. Later on it became hard for a small airline to manage amidst the major players in the air industry. By the 70's Mohawk was on its last legs and the Albany crash of 72 put the kabosh on things. I keep em alive on the sim now and then. I really miss the small airlines.

[n2ize]

Ah! Allegooney or Agony Airlines. But, to be fair, when the morphed into US Air, they became pretty good. Flew the a few times that last 2 years and they're ok.


UNITED!!! That was/is the airline to fly !! The airline of the United cities !! United Rules !!

[KC2UGV]

I really miss the small airlines.

I don't...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407#Investigation

[W1GUH]

UNITED!!! That was/is the airline to fly !! The airline of the United cities !! United Rules !!

By far, my airline of choice. Been flying them for decades & they didn't screw up once. Plus, if there's audio on the flight, you can listen to ATC on the sound system; up to the captain's discretion, but it's usually there. Very comforting to hear how absolutely routine it always is. Never heard anything that wasn't.

And their JFK/LAX service trumps 'em all. Dedicated fleets so hardly any equipment delays, and very convenient terminals at both ends.

[W1GUH]

I don't...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407#Investigation

It's tragic what they've done to the pilots. Overworked and underpaid.

[kf0rt]

Back in the early-mid 60's, my Dad would fly us out to Albany once in a great while (my grandparents lived across the Hudson in Castleton). For a little kid, this was a huge thrill.

From what I recall, we flew to Chicago non-stop in a jet; most likely the 707 at that time. I'm 99% sure that was a Continental flight. In Chicago, we'd switch planes to a 4-engine prop job (American Airlines?). This flight would stop in Detroit and Buffalo on the way east; might stop in Rochester, but the stops were always short. Drop off a few passengers, pick up a few; never on the ground for long and if you were going to Albany, you never left your seat. I'm not sure what that plane was (or the airline, been a long time); maybe a DC-6? I recall, at that time, the runways in Albany weren't long enough to handle the big "jetliners" of the time, so Albany was restricted to smaller craft.

Brings back some great memories, but not much detail... ;)

[n2ize]

I don't...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407#Investigation

This means nothing. a lot of small air services have/had great safety records.

[n2ize]

By far, my airline of choice. Been flying them for decades & they didn't screw up once. Plus, if there's audio on the flight, you can listen to ATC on the sound system; up to the captain's discretion, but it's usually there. Very comforting to hear how absolutely routine it always is. Never heard anything that wasn't.

And their JFK/LAX service trumps 'em all. Dedicated fleets so hardly any equipment delays, and very convenient terminals at both ends.

Like I said. United is the all round best.

[K7SGJ]

Use to love flying in the DC3s. When the engines would spark up, there'd be a huge plume of blue smoke, lotsa backfires, and flame shooting out the exhaust. The damn things didn't run for shit until they got off the taxiway and on to the main runway. As soon as the throttles went forward, those engines would smooth right out. No presserized cabins either, so you had to chew gum and hope your ears would pop. And ocassionally on the flight, you could hear (and feel) the engines lose sync until the pilot trimmed em back up. I think the last one I flew in was from Sky Harbor in Phoenix to Lindbergh Field in San Diego. Man, what a hoot.

[kf0rt]

Like I said. United is the all round best.

Am impressed with United's customer service. I've had the "opportunity" to call United on several occasions recently to fix problems here at the ØRT family travel agency (of which, I am apparently the President). They nail it every time. Friendly agents who really work to fix the issues. Never had a call that didn't end up with a positive result.

[KC2UGV]

This means nothing. a lot of small air services have/had great safety records.

Q:What do you call a person on welfare, and living with their girl friend?
A:A regional pilot.

FWIW, this is an inside joke told often in the airline sector...

Regional airlines generally pay their pilots welfare wages; and skimp greatly on the safety. Hence, why they are ALL fighting the legislation requiring ALL pilots pass a checkride on all airframes they flew in the past 6 months.

[W1GUH]

I've heard that before, Corey. Just what he freaque are they thinking?

[n2ize]

Q:What do you call a person on welfare, and living with their girl friend?
A:A regional pilot.

FWIW, this is an inside joke told often in the airline sector...

Regional airlines generally pay their pilots welfare wages; and skimp greatly on the safety. Hence, why they are ALL fighting the legislation requiring ALL pilots pass a checkride on all airframes they flew in the past 6 months.

There are no true "small airlines" anymore. At least none on a par with the ones from decades gone by. Regional air lines these days still have good safety records by virtually all standards and have been free of major incidents over the past several years. Most minor incidents can be chalked up to random equipment failures that would likely occur regardless of maintenance, careless baggage handlers, or passengers who ignore warnings and safety procedures. Of course there are still small charter services floating around out there and its easy enough to research a charter service and examine their safety record before hiring them. Matter of fact, you can check the safety record of virtually any airline before committing yourself to riding with them.

Air travel is still one of the safest means of transport. The probability of getting hurt or killed from illness, riding in a car, riding a bike, slipping and falling down, swimming, being fondled by the NTSB, etc. is higher than traveling on an air line.

[W1GUH]

What you say is true, John. Despite the way the crew are treated, even the small carriers' safety record is superb. In don't know if United Express is a "small carrier", but those flights have been just fine, from a passenger's perspective, too.

[W1GUH]

And one plane I must make honorable mention of, the BAC-111. American and Mohawk flew them in the 60's, and it was the first jet I rode on. That plane had the smoothest engines I've ever experienced. There was no vibration whatsoever from the engines. None. Other jets have vibration, but that one didn't. Literally felt like an elevator going up & down.

American called theirs the BAC-400. Don't know why the alternate designation.

[KC2UGV]

There are no true "small airlines" anymore. At least none on a par with the ones from decades gone by. Regional air lines these days still have good safety records by virtually all standards and have been free of major incidents over the past several years. Most minor incidents can be chalked up to random equipment failures that would likely occur regardless of maintenance, careless baggage handlers, or passengers who ignore warnings and safety procedures. Of course there are still small charter services floating around out there and its easy enough to research a charter service and examine their safety record before hiring them. Matter of fact, you can check the safety record of virtually any airline before committing yourself to riding with them.

Air travel is still one of the safest means of transport. The probability of getting hurt or killed from illness, riding in a car, riding a bike, slipping and falling down, swimming, being fondled by the NTSB, etc. is higher than traveling on an air line.

Regionals have been free of major accidents for several years?

Colgan 3407? 50 people died, including one person whose house they crashed into.

[K7SGJ]

That wasn't really a crash, it was an unscheduled stop.

[W1GUH]

Back to MS Flight Sim, just for a little bit.

I read at least one comment about rudimentary scenery. That certainly was true in earlier times. But that has improved vastly in the last few realeases, and in FSX, which I believe is still the current release, it's lush and very realistic, especially where topology is involved. I can navigate around the Catskills using my knowledge of the "lay of the land" up there using features in the FS scenery.

Can't wait until the next version!

So...my "style" of using this....

Mostly auto-pilot control during cross-country flights and getting into the fantasy of being a commercial pilot and enjoying the scenery. I love the instrumentation and the IFR procedures, and it's great mindless time-sync. As for landing using the auto-pilot, that's real. I had the good fortune of being next to an airline pilot at a bar once and asked him about it. The reply was yes, absolutely. In fact, he said the auto-pilot'd taxi to the gate if you wanted it to. He also said almost all landings are done without the auto-pilot.

Back in my drinking days I made of game of "How drunk can I be and still land (auto-pilot) and survie?" The answer is...pretty damn drunk!

I don't have a yoke...something on my list. I almost always use keyboard commands. Less realistic, obviously, but, like the sims have been from the git-go, the physics of flight are as close to the real world as possible with current PC technology. It's fascinating to experience the flight characteristics of the various aircraft.

OTOH....this guy has yet to show up!

http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ottopilot.jpg

OK...back to your regularly scheduled topic drift. Sorry for the interruption!

[kf0rt]

I'll have to try the AP landing thing. That's usually where things go awry on my flights.

Which aircraft do you usually use?

ETA: On the scenery, I think it was Jeff who suggested trying Tokyo at night. Amazing...

[W1GUH]

MIssed that about Tokyo....I'll check that out for sure.

For longer flights I prefer a 737. Sometimes I have to do a few "in-flight" re-fuelings, but what the hey! Sometimes I'll do a 747. For shorter flights, I love the Beech aircraft, the Bonanza or the King Air. The Bonanza is a descendant of the Sky King airplane!

The Cessna 172 is fun for "screw around" flights. That one I'll do manual control a lot more. Much easier than the Boeing! For that matter, I'll use manual control with the Beeches, too.

And for special fun, I'll fly the Grumman Goose, especially in back-country. First plane I ever flew in...round trip between the ends of Isle Royale.

And, of course, the ultra-light is FANTASTIC for sight seeing! One of these days I'll finish flight training and unlock the certificate!

My suggestion for scenery is to take off from Prudhoe Bay close to sunset and watch the sunset over the mountains, then land in Anchorage at night. The coloring of the sunset is breathtaking!

[n2ize]

I fired up MS Flight Sim yesterday for the first time in a couple of years. I forgot how to fly a lot of my planes. As I mentioned earlier ,I rarely fly the jets, I much prefer to fly vintage propliners. I usually fly the DC3, Lockheed Constellation, DC6, Stratocruiser, Martin 404, Lockheed Electra, and the FH227, all are add on's to FSX. They all feature beautiful imaging, authentic panels and controls, and authentic sound.

Well, yesterday I tried starting with the DC3 and, damned... I forgot how to start the darned engines... !! I had better luck with the Electra, I managed to get all 4 engines started in proper sequence. But I forgot a lot of the operation of the navigational gear. I figured out how to operate the ADF but I am rusty with setting and following the VOR's . If I remember the autopilot can be used to lock onto the VOR and follow it. I also forgot how to set the instruments for landing.

So, it looks like I am going to have to start simple again, practicing setting and using the controls flying the single engine Cessna and then I can hopefully get back to flying the big ol' propliners again. I also need to get a new control yoke. My old control yoke ain't working and it's tough trying to control with the keyboard.

I tried using one of my RC/Helicopter transmitters as a control yoke. It has a provision to allow you to plug it into the computer using as USB port so you can practice on a computer RC flight simulator. It worked but I wasn't getting adequate response using it with MS FSX.

BTW the DC3 model that I fly on FSX is really nice. On the ground the doors open to reveal the inside of the plane. And when you're ready for take off the doors close up and you are ready to taxi to the runway and take off. I have a nice picture of it flying over Long Island sound at dusk heading for Portland Me. I'll see if I can post a picture.