What's really the purpose here? [Archive] - The Island Of Misfit Hams

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X-Rated

11-28-2011, 05:16 PM

I had thought that this IoMH was supposed to be a place to go where we could gather to escape the wrath of Phred the banhamster. But anymore, this has replaced QRZ. Mods are hateful towards posters and no one wants to let little things ride. Everything has to do with retaliation. Life is too short to remember all transgressions. I want to live.

But at the same time, I am baffled by the way posters are treated on this forum. We have had what I would consider massive amounts of regular posters here leave or get banned. The attitude amongst the mods is, "Let them go. We'll get more". Even a light hearted comment can garner the wrath of scornful mods now. I don't know what mold I am supposed to fit into, but I know I am too fat to fit into that mold. So what is the purpose here? Just to piss good people off?

I have made quite a few friendships here over the years. Not the kinds that I would care to trash without a second thought. Others have as well. One such thread was started praising the greatness of a IoMH person recently. That is what we should be about and not about how we can create an image of others that will crush their reputation. Yeah, we have differing opinions, but at the end of the day, we are dissimilar people who desire the input of the others.

So hold grudges. Make it impossible for people to express themselves by assuring everybody is treated unfairly. I am not real sure how this business model is supposed to collect the big donations for the upkeep here. I was looking back over the donations posted and several have quit or have been banned who actually have put money into this thing. I have no idea if they are still donating.

I have been told that the drama between me and specific others is too much. That I need to let it go. But that is from those who want to start things and finish them with their authority alone in the forum. There is no truth in accusations. There is no need for truth since authority trumps truth every time. Another ham found this out the hard way today. Swept under the carpet. Now the focus, I was notified, is on me.

Like I said. The friends I have met here are the best. The ones still here and those not deemed fit to be misfits. But it is time now for me to be nudged out the door. Thank you Luke, Mike, Jeff, Paul, Denver Dave and all who have made this trip unforgettable. I guess I don't know how you play your "nice".

73

ad4mg

11-28-2011, 07:36 PM

I won't offer you any reply, Jerry. You never found any answer I've ever provided you over the years satisfactory.

For the rest of the forum who may be curious as to exactly what has transpired, here's the scoop.

Bill, kc7jty, a charter member of this site, has been permanently banned.

This transpired over a very long time. After a series of warnings over the years, Bill still chose to drop a particularly inflammatory remark directed at a segment of the membership in the 'WWJP' thread, found in the political forum. Several members voiced strong objection to that remark to us in PM's. I had a look, removed the comment, which violated one of our few rules, noted that I had removed the comment, and left a detailed explanation why I removed it.

The matter was brought to the attention of the entire staff here. Every member of our staff was given the opportunity to weigh in on Bill's continued disrespect for any of our members who happen to embrace religion of any sort. Every member of the staff declined to argue on Bill's behalf, and it was decided, unanimously, that it would better suit the site if he was allowed to pursue discussion of his opinions elsewhere, with like minded people.

For the record, I was the one who permanently banned Bill. The last time Bill got into hot water, I was the one who came to his defense, and the damage done to the friendship between Mike (al2n) and I because of this is now apparent. Looking back, Mike had a valid point, but I was in disagreement with how it was handled back then. This time, the entire staff supported this action, with none of us expressing any concern over the blowback that happens anytime a friend is asked to leave the premises. This thread is representative of such blowback.

Nowhere else, on any amateur radio forum that I am aware of, are threads such as this allowed after such action is taken. Try this stunt on QRZ, and you will understand this 'banhammer' concept. Here, we welcome your opinions on such matters as long as replies stay within the rules.

The premise of this site is that members agree to conduct themselves as adults, and in return, we will all be treated as adults. A certain level of decency is expected in conjunction with this concept, and a little respect for our fellow members goes a long way.

When compared to our past experiences at other ham radio forums, I can see where some confusion can result when a member of the staff expresses his opinions. We allow staff members to participate in the forums as all other members do, and why not? None of us is on any sort of power trip, we don't police the forums looking for problems, and we are forbidden to moderate a thread in which we are a participant. That's why we have so many staff members ... someone not involved in a fur ball can step in when necessary.

Jerry has taken a few comments that Jeff and I offered to him as "bullying". If that were the case, he would not have been allowed to start this particular thread, but not only did I encourage him to actually do this, we encourage him to continue with his participation.

Jeff told Jerry that he was being "pissy", and I told him to find a more appropriate forum to bitch in. His comments were originally started in the "News and Updates" forum, hardly the place for this discussion. In his reply, Jerry called us a couple of "dweebs". Give that one a go on QRZ and let me know how it works out for you.

This site is what the individual wants it to be. We go through a similar experience any time there is controversy here. If anyone here has the opinion that the staff is bullying anybody, well, here is the chance to spit it out.

FWIW, we (the staff) call each other out on the carpet far more often than we do our members. The moderators forum here has frequently resembled a huge cat fight, but we work through it, and the forum as a whole doesn't have to suffer through the trivial details.

So, if Jerry wants to paint us as a group of hideous bullies, we're OK with it. Everyone has their own opinion of us based on his or her personal experiences here, and we understand this. We're not perfect, but we do the best we can. It is our hope that everyone is given the opportunity to enjoy themselves here. I can assure you that the endeavor is nowhere near a money making opportunity. And, as far as donations are concerned, nobody on the staff, except Jeff, who actually does all the real work here, has any clue who has chosen to donate, and who hasn't.

So, what's the purpose here? To just be here, as far as I'm concerned. That alone is enough for me. It's all about free will. Each member may choose to stay, or to go. No strings attached, as seen on TV, but without the additional shipping and handling charges.

For what it's worth.

Sincerely,
The #2 Dweeb. ;)

WØTKX

11-28-2011, 08:27 PM

W3WN

11-28-2011, 09:03 PM

Sorry Jerry.

I'm not going to rebut you point by point. Suffice to say, your general premise is incorrect.

Other sites have banned people for far less than what has often been posted here... by you, by Bill, by many others. Most of us. And no doubt a few of my wisecracks would be on that "banned elsewhere" list as well.

People here are treated as adults. Not as adolescents or children, especially spoiled ones. But with that treatment comes a responsibility... to be wiling to accept the consequences as an adult. In short, if you want to be treated as a mensch, act like one.

Further, I know from personal experience that when someone has been injured (for lack of a better word) by actions of others on the Island, and has left of their own accord, certain members of the Staff have made a point to find out (once they were aware of the situation) what happened and do what they can to rectify it.

The details of this aren't important any longer; those who know them know of what I speak, and we'll just leave it at that. Suffice to say, it was because of such an incident that I left for awhile. Certain staff members, when made aware of the situation, reached out and gave me reason to return.

There are plenty of other places that would simply have told me to take my concerns, shove them where the sun doesn't shine, and don't let the door hit me where the sun doesn't shine on my way out -- and don't come back.

In short: Overall, people who come here are treated with respect as adults until & unless they prove otherwise.

You want people who fantasize about black helicopters, or channel The Old Man, or feel it neccesary to show their "superiority" by attacking other's religious beliefs? Then maybe you're right, this isn't the place for you. But that's your decision, and your choice.

I may not agree with you; I may not even like you. But I can still respect your decision, even if or when I think you're wrong.

I think you're wrong.

Take care.

VE7DCW

11-28-2011, 09:08 PM

Well put. While this sentiment and attitude may not be apparent to some, it holds true over and over... That being said, I'd like to offer my services as Dweeb #.99 :mrgreen:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cW4kucEGIgI/TLovOyy5rsI/AAAAAAAALjc/3aCNK-Nnt0s/s1600/scapegoat.jpg

Hey !!! .... can you dweebs please keep it down .... we're trying to do some serious personal attacks here :neener:

KC2UGV

11-28-2011, 09:12 PM

Wow, after Luke's post there, I think we need to have a sample thread from the Mod forum moved out into the open (Locked of course)... Just for a "small sample" :)

FWIW, I don't think anyone here holds grudges. Hell, Paul and I trade "protips" via PM from time to time, and anyone can see how we tend to interact in the politics arena.

VE7DCW

11-28-2011, 09:18 PM

N1LAF

11-28-2011, 09:44 PM

I would like to share my experiences I have had with Jerry, one of the charter members of the Island. Jerry and I have very differing political views on the zed. Jerry had invited me to the Island several times during the time I was frequenting the Zed. While I was considering Jerry's offer, I saw a posting, that said something about me. It was rather benign, but I had to join in to provide my input. To my surprise, I was warmly greeted by everyone on the island. I have been here ever since.

As a new member, I was checking out a thread posting, where I was wrongfully being accused of something. The what or who doesn't matter, but there was Jerry's post in the thread saying he didn't believe I would be such a person. That is something I will not forget.

As a charter member, Jerry has a stake in the Island, and has high ideals for the Island. I share these ideals. Let me quote Jerry here:

But at the same time, I am baffled by the way posters are treated on this forum. We have had what I would consider massive amounts of regular posters here leave or get banned. The attitude amongst the mods is, "Let them go. We'll get more". Even a light hearted comment can garner the wrath of scornful mods now. I don't know what mold I am supposed to fit into, but I know I am too fat to fit into that mold. So what is the purpose here? Just to piss good people off?

To Jerry's point, do we need to punch each other out on issues we disagree on? Do we have to get into this 'us vs them' mentality, especially on the political forum? Can we be more sensitive to each other? It is to the point that I have been very reactive to others here, and that is my own fault in that I am responsible for my own reactions, and not blame the opposing poster who I feel is attacking me. I am not perfect. I do try to practice fairness, and try to understand where others are coming from. In this process, I have made good friends here. I can separate the political forum nonsense and friendship with the same people. I'll name Luke for one, others may volunteer themselves if they like to. We are not going to be in lock-step politically, but this is a brotherhood in ham radio, and we should at least respect each other, even if we disagree.

Shouldn't the following be one of our goals?

One such thread was started praising the greatness of a IoMH person recently. That is what we should be about and not about how we can create an image of others that will crush their reputation. Yeah, we have differing opinions, but at the end of the day, we are dissimilar people who desire the input of the others.

I for one will try to be less reactive, and more sensitive to others. I can only expect this from myself. As my wise former manager at work told me, "You cannot control anyone but yourself, and that is the only control you have". So I cannot demand anyone to have the same ideals, only I can control what I do.

Jerry, I hope you stay, you are a valued member of the Island.

N1LAF

11-28-2011, 09:57 PM

I don't know what Luke is referring to, but the Mod forum is quite civil and boring compared to the forum interaction.

I think I can share this... I am the accidental admin. As a member here, I made a suggestion of changing styles and adding a call lookup, as I looked at the source code, it looked pretty straight forward. I also suggested and volunteered to do the website. A day or so later, as I logged in, I was a moderator. I wasn't asked, it was just done. As I was working on the styles, making modifications, I would message Luke every 5 - 10 minutes, "Can you refresh the cache please?". After a day or so of putting up with my nagging to refresh the cache, he placed me as admin so I can cleanup the cache myself.

Even with the political forum turmoil, it is a real privilege and honor to be able to serve a great bunch of hams here on the Island, and I hope to maintain this level of trust as we move forward.

NQ6U

11-28-2011, 10:17 PM

I for one will try to be less reactive, and more sensitive to others.

If you do that, Paul, I will promise refrain from jumping on your ass at every available opportunity.

N1LAF

11-28-2011, 10:30 PM

If you do that, Paul, I will promise refrain from jumping on your ass at every available opportunity.

Deal.

I cannot promise instant success, I am not perfect, but I can work to get there.

WV6Z

11-28-2011, 10:45 PM

Mercy

w2amr

11-29-2011, 04:37 AM

Well put. While this sentiment and attitude may not be apparent to some, it holds true over and over... That being said, I'd like to offer my services as Dweeb #.99 :mrgreen:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cW4kucEGIgI/TLovOyy5rsI/AAAAAAAALjc/3aCNK-Nnt0s/s1600/scapegoat.jpg
You guys should wear your dweeb labels as a badges of honor, some of us can only hope to become dweebs. :lol:
I love this place!

n2ize

11-29-2011, 10:35 AM

I wouldn't want to moderate or own any internet forums. Particularly those dealing with politics, religion, or general topics.. Too scary a job. Too easy to make people angry and too hard to feel rewarded. It's a thankless job, or so it seems. I am involved in a highly technical / academic blog but it is mostly limited to and of interest to students, teachers, professionals, and highly dedicated individuals, and has very strict rules regarding content, topics, membership and very stringent requirements for being allowed to post articles or comments. This makes it easy to moderate as there are seldom any personality clashes.

ab1ga

11-29-2011, 11:10 AM

1. With due respect to Corey, I'd rather the workings of the Mod forum not be made available. If you think second-guessing is bad now, just wait. What happens in Dweebistan, stays in Dweebistan.

2, I've noticed myself that the Islanders have been increasingly restless for the last year or so, with tempers flaring more easily and with more serious and permanent consequences. This is not surprising given the infectiousness of political bickering amplified by individual economic stresses. Perhaps we all need to use a lighter touch, reading posts twice before submitting, realizing that one's interlocutor may be having a really bad time just now, etc. What once could have been easily taken as good-natured ribbing now gets seen as personal insult; backing off for a bit may help.

3. Especially in the political topics, partisanship has become the dominant component of argument. Discussions have been increasingly degenerating into "us and them" scenarios, where the objective is to conquer, not convince. In the end, the combatants spit on each other and return to their corner. I look forward to the day when each of us can prove the other a notorious scoundrel and blackguard with civility and reasoned argument.

4. While I'm still writing, let me offer my apologies to any who may have felt slighted by anything I may have said or implied. I sincerely promise to try and live by what I've written above for as long as I can remember it, and to try to remember it for more than five hours.

5. I knew that banning Dilmus would lead to nothing but trouble; now there was a lightning rod if ever there was one. Bring back Dilmus!

K7SGJ

11-29-2011, 11:24 AM

KC2UGV

11-29-2011, 11:25 AM

1. With due respect to Corey, I'd rather the workings of the Mod forum not be made available. If you think second-guessing is bad now, just wait. What happens in Dweebistan, stays in Dweebistan.
...
5. I knew that banning Dilmus would lead to nothing but trouble; now there was a lightning rod if ever there was one. Bring back Dilmus!

Ah, come on! One small, uncontroversial cat fight :)

As for Dilmus, I think he declined his return.

ab1ga

11-29-2011, 11:27 AM

Ah, come on! One small, uncontroversial cat fight :)

As for Dilmus, I think he declined his return.

Nope, not even one. I'm worried you could get hooked on all the excitement and wind up a Moderator!
(BTW, that was GNR: good-natured ribbing.)

What? Somebody gave Dilmus a CHOICE? Now -that- was an unnecessary risk.

n2ize

11-29-2011, 11:40 AM

Or people posting.:-D

Exactly correct !! . Being a specialized blog and not open to general topics we do get very few people posting. Only those that have something specific to add to the knowledge base or a relevant comment.

KC2UGV

11-29-2011, 11:46 AM

Exactly correct !! . Being a specialized blog and not open to general topics we do get very few people posting. Only those that have something specific to add to the knowledge base or a relevant comment.

Blogs like that tend to get read a whole lot, but not commented on; solely because it's largely considered "Educational". That, and after reading, only a moron would try to debate something with an expert in the field; unless said person is also an expert.

Not too many experts about anything, really. And, math tends not to get most people emotional (Unless it's wikipedia, then even geography starts arguments).

W3MIV

11-29-2011, 12:19 PM

In general, I find the moderation here works well. Sure, I have occasional disagreements with decisions, but I am also able to accept that the moderators must have the freedom to use their individual judgment on the basis of some accepted standard. The majority here established that standard by pushing against the limits. Sometimes the limit moved; sometimes the limit pushed back and the pusher moved. Overall, a balance seems to have been achieved, though like any system hanging by a thread it teeters and jitters about as it finds its natural cycle.

As for Billhelm, I shall miss him. Yes, I believe he was anti-Semitic to a fault. Yes, I believe his vitriol against religion was way over the top. Yes, no one (least of all Billhelm) would argue that his first love was anything but always testing the limits of taste and tolerance. Yet those were not the sole measures of the man. I confess that I miss Dilmus as well. PITA that he could be, there were other facets to him that lifted him above the despicable category some assigned to him.

Nevertheless, decisions were made by moderators acting in conjunction and not solely on the heat of an individual's moment (which was not always the case here, BTW). It is past. I would not change anything. I especially would not bring the moderators' discussions into the open; that is a foolish formula for disaster, in my view.

This Island is an acquired taste, like pigs' knuckles or haggis, and not everyone is going to be comfortable at the table. Somebody pass the gravy...

W2NAP

11-29-2011, 01:23 PM

all I can say is.. I discovered 3910 last night....

someone needs some singing lessons.....

N8YX

11-29-2011, 01:41 PM

all I can say is.. I discovered 3910 last night....

someone needs some singing lessons.....

Is "suckbag" still down there? He/it was a frequent pest for those guys last winter.

W2NAP

11-29-2011, 03:09 PM

Is "suckbag" still down there? He/it was a frequent pest for those guys last winter.

no clue. last night was the 1st I ever listened to it. idk which was more of a mess 313 or 3910

K7SGJ

11-29-2011, 03:18 PM

n2ize

11-29-2011, 05:34 PM

Blogs like that tend to get read a whole lot, but not commented on; solely because it's largely considered "Educational". That, and after reading, only a moron would try to debate something with an expert in the field; unless said person is also an expert.

Not too many experts about anything, really. And, math tends not to get most people emotional (Unless it's wikipedia, then even geography starts arguments).

Very true. Let me give an example. A while back we had a discussion about the works of Alexander Grothendieck and the Bourbaki influence (which Grothendieck played a important role). Now, I could probably stand on a street corner in Midtown Manhattan for a week asking people who Grothendieck is and I wouldn't be surprised if nary a person would know. Okay, maybe eventually some smart alek nerd would come along and be able to tell us who Grothendieck is. And Grothendieck, due to his bizarre present day way of thinking is one of the more emotionally charged elements of the field.

kf0rt

11-29-2011, 07:31 PM

I'd like to weigh in on this a tad. The commentary has been great, but I think a critical point is missed.

Pretty simply, when a number of long time respected members here file a complaint, you can be pretty sure that action will be taken. This is not only how it works, but how it must work. The downside is that there is no way to handle these situations without upsetting someone, and the blowback (as Luke accurately puts it) isn't always predictable. Guaranteed, everyone who works "behind the counter" here hates this shit. No agendas or personal vendettas that I've ever known and in every single instance where someone was banned, the behind-the-scenes part involved much teeth gnashing. Sans complaints, I'm pretty certain Bill's comment would have been allowed to stand as his own commentary and those of us who noticed it would have grumbled internally.

In short, complaints equal a vote to a great degree. And we're pretty happy with the low level of complaints.

Bill was the guy who invited me here some few years ago. To my way of thinking, Bill has always had a lot to offer in the philosophy department of life when he wasn't pushing the envelope. When I think back to previous bannings (and there haven't been that many), in every instance, the person involved was given numerous chances but they all seemed intent on pushing the limits of common decency. To wit, they knew full well where the lines were drawn and pushed on anyway. All we ask is a little respect. Not to staff, but to other members. And staff are mere humans, too. (No shit, I'm pretty sure I'm as fucked up as anyone around here). But we try. Please understand though, these decisions don't come easy. Never have. We'd much rather that people could overlook the "issues" and move on, knowing that none of us are perfect. That's not possible in all cases.

As for "exposing" the mod forum... It'd bore you to tears. I've seen months (or at least weeks) pass with no traffic there at all. There exists no outside influences here; what you see is what there is and if you have any questions, just ask! The mod forum fires up when there are issues or rare technical questions. We know the "action" is in the public places and this is where the mods and admins prefer to play. Anyone who thinks there is a lot of secret traffic going on there would be sadly disappointed.

My 2 cents and you may be due some change....

ad4mg

11-29-2011, 08:05 PM

Rob's right about the mod's forum, there is seldom anything posted there except an occasional 'new member' announcement, or addressing some glitch in the software. I probably overstated the level of activity.

I will insist that when we do have some internal conflict, it is of the "Holy Shit!" variety. You guys would be impressed ... :lol:

ETA: and, I'm confident that every one of you would be horrified to know that I'm usually right in the middle of all of it ... :quiet:

n2ize

11-29-2011, 08:11 PM

Attacking peoples religions is wrong and should not be tolerated, here or anywhere.. Religion has great meaning to many and most often trumps all other aspects of human thought. Belief is the basis of life, it is what keeps mankind alive and functional. If beliefs were assaulted then the proper justice was meted out.

N2CHX

11-29-2011, 08:38 PM

Well damn, for once I wasn't the cause of shit being stirred up here. :twisted:

NQ6U

11-29-2011, 08:55 PM

In general, I find the moderation here works well.

In general, find the moderators here to be a bunch of clueless rat-bastards and if they don't start running things exactly the way I want them to be run, I'm gonna take my ball and go home. You know, just like several other Islanders have done recently.

Okay, now that I have that off my chest, I will say that I was not happy about the Bill decision but I can't argue that he didn't ask for it either. Whatever the case, I'm done with it.

kf0rt

11-29-2011, 09:02 PM

Well damn, for once I wasn't the cause of shit being stirred up here. :twisted:

No shit, Kel...

How's your house looking? Got any recent pictures?

kf0rt

11-29-2011, 09:05 PM

In general, find the moderators here to be a bunch of clueless rat-bastards

An accurate assessment, IMO. But we like it that way.

BTW, where the hell is our bartender?

N2CHX

11-29-2011, 09:06 PM

No shit, Kel...

How's your house looking? Got any recent pictures?

:D

Unfortunately, not much different than it did two years ago. Working on it slowly, as we have time and money. But you know how it goes, when you have money you have no time and when you have time you usually have no money... We've resigned ourselves to the fact that it will never be how we really want it. It's great for the kids, but we have decided that once they're out of high school we're selling it and buying one of these (http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/) or living on a boat.

kf0rt

11-29-2011, 09:10 PM

N2CHX

11-29-2011, 09:11 PM

Know it well. Land of opportunity and all that. Do hope all is well there, though.

Thank you, and with you as well I hope.

kf0rt

11-29-2011, 09:14 PM

Thank you, and with you as well I hope.

Nah, it sucks royally here, but we'll figure a way out. ;)

KJ3N

11-29-2011, 09:20 PM

Attacking peoples religions is wrong and should not be tolerated, here or anywhere..

You might want to mention that to the "Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians all taking turns killing each other 'cuz God told them it was a good idea." (George Carlin quote)

Religion has great meaning to many and most often trumps all other aspects of human thought. Belief is the basis of life, it is what keeps mankind alive and functional.

Biology is what keeps mankind alive and functional. It's no act of some "spooky father figure".

If beliefs were assaulted then the proper justice was meted out.

Not having seen the original comments Bill made, I can't say if it was proper justice, or not. I can say that based on some of his previous comments on here, I'm sure he finally ratcheted the offense up to a level that went beyond reason.

N2CHX

11-29-2011, 09:26 PM

Nah, it sucks royally here, but we'll figure a way out. ;)

I hear you. As mentioned in another post, it would be sucking royally here too but my Jew boy husband knows how to save money and he saved a bunch up as a single guy before we got married and he lost his job with the bank. And yeah, he really is Jewish (very non-practicing and atheist but when your family came to America with the last name Ushkowitz you're undoubtedly Jewish lol) and we joke about it lots, so no offense to anyone with that comment.

W3WN

11-29-2011, 10:00 PM

Well damn, for once I wasn't the cause of shit being stirred up here. :twisted:Ditto.

W3WN

11-29-2011, 10:03 PM

:D

Unfortunately, not much different than it did two years ago. Working on it slowly, as we have time and money. But you know how it goes, when you have money you have no time and when you have time you usually have no money... We've resigned ourselves to the fact that it will never be how we really want it. It's great for the kids, but we have decided that once they're out of high school we're selling it and buying one of these (http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/) or living on a boat.I know that feeling. 5 1/2 years, and we're still working on the place. But, it keeps me out of the bars... besides, they don't put umbrellas in the drinks here 'bouts.

WX7P

11-29-2011, 10:42 PM

5. I knew that banning Dilmus would lead to nothing but trouble; now there was a lightning rod if ever there was one. Bring back Dilmus!

Are ye daft? Talk about a polarizing misfit. Good Grief.

WX7P

11-29-2011, 10:46 PM

:D

these (http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/) .

Migrant housing. Taking up grape picking?

WX7P

11-29-2011, 11:08 PM

I guess it all depends on what pushes your own buttons. AS the staff here well knows, I have certain things that I think are completely unacceptable but seem to be pretty much okey-dokey to others.

As for individual contributions outweighing The BAD stuff, it really depends on the individual. I thought Dilmus was completely worthless, not just because of his politics, but of the absolute disregard and contempt for others of different ideas and socio-economic classes. To me, that wiped out ANY possible positives he could have had on the tube radio thing, on which I guess he's supposed to be some kind of expert. He's no loss, he got the red card for the same reason that Billhelm did. An overall PERCEPTION of having no respect for the community, which in my mind was not a perception, but a reality.

Billhelm was always a conflict for me. I never got the zionist conspiracy thing, but the religion bashing didn't bother me as much as it did others. Billhelm had an interesting view on travel and life which to me, was in conflict with some of the anti-stuff we'd see from him. It was almost as if he was posting bi-polar experiment. Maybe I didn't read enough of his postings, but with the exception of the religion thing, he didn't seem to go completely off the rails a la Dilmus.

I don't always agree with the mods, this case being an example. The religion thing is a third rail, and SOMEONE is going to be pissed if you go there. That's why I don't.

I will say that 3 prolific posters and the scores of nitwit non-substance contributors who I thought should be tossed are gone, so something must be working. Granted, there's always going to be something excruciatingly annoying (See Veterans, Sons of Confederate) but I've come to realize that I'm likely to be annoying someone else out there with some of my postings.

Heh heh heh...

N7YA

11-29-2011, 11:16 PM

Ill be honest, i came here initially because its a convenient place for me to drop stupid one-liners and actually get someone to reply to them, i was regarded as a nobody at the Zed since i started going there many years ago. You guys are all great.

I absolutely have my opinions about religion, politics and a cornucopia of other subjects...but in the big picture, they are simply clouds in the backround. And some of my opinuions have changed a bit due to these discussions. Its about the human connection and what i can eventually learn from my experiences and my fellow humans. I have agreed and disagreed with the likes of Paul, Mike, Dilmus, etc for years, but it doesnt lower them as people. I find i actually like these guys. No matter what i post in these forums, i always try to have a basic level of decency coursing through my thoughts, it keeps my words from getting carried away when they really dont need to be. I have also gotten help from admin, which i appreciate. Ive also gotten reminders to tone it down and have had threads closed because my sense of humor can be, at times, edgy. But never have i felt i was being stepped on, it was just a request for the consideration of my fellow Islanders, and i had no argument for that. Pride needed to take a back seat because its very important to know how to pick your battles.

I know Bill pushed it...a lot! But i liked the guy and agree that, when he wasnt being "Bill!!", he was a pretty funny sonofabitch. Dilmus was ok, when he wasnt trying to get a rise out of anyone he deemd a liberal...which was most of the time. The only problem i had with him was when he had that goddamned 6GB sigline pic of a machine gun that screwed up my screen for a while. But he did take it down. The reasons they are gone is out of my control.

Were humans, were naturally competitive and insecure. We always want to be right and hate being made a fool of. The most successful people are the ones who can admit when they're wrong, take a step back, regroup and carry on. And when you're right, stay calm...its still not that important. I come here because this is a great group of hams, best one yet, and its a diverse group. Too much of the same thing would send me down the road of my own accord. Look at how many posts ive made since being here, if you knew me well, that shit is unheard of!!

Mostly, i come here for the lulz!

VE7DCW

11-29-2011, 11:30 PM

An accurate assessment, IMO. But we like it that way.

BTW, where the hell is our bartender?

Yeah ..... I could go for some nice liquid with an umbrella in it right about now ....... :cheers:

KJ3N

11-29-2011, 11:41 PM

An accurate assessment, IMO. But we like it that way.

BTW, where the hell is our bartender?

This (http://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php?19491-DEMS-WALK-AWAY-FROM-SUPER-COMMITTEE&p=386151#post386151) appears to be his last post. I'm hoping he's just giving himself a temporary timeout.

ab1ga

11-30-2011, 09:52 AM

Are ye daft? Talk about a polarizing misfit. Good Grief.

Of course I'm daft, how else are you supposed to get along in this world without going crazy?

Re Dilmus, I'll invite you to compare the post I just quoted with the name of the site. Dilmus was a Prime Choice misfit, which means he did belong her.

Now mind you, a lot of this is tongue in cheek, and Dilmus did make a habit out of getting under people's skin. But that was something most people missed - in my experiences with him, his challenges were designed not just to irritate, but to push people back on their heels and think carefully about their position. This is not a bad thing, and I often got the feeling Dilmus was playing a very effective Devil's Advocate, for bedevil he did. I found that if you read his post carefully, decided to take it seriously, and then responded with carefully arrayed and deployed arguments that he was receptive and engaging. The tendency I observed was that the more impetuous among us tended to be the most outraged by his antics, and didn't notice the slight tugging of their pant legs. Dilmus Rogers is not stupid.

Since I'm playing Devil's Advocate, let me continue by pointing out that the other side was certainly not the model of gentlemanly discourse, although to be fair most of the transgressions happened over on the other site. The nadir of such outbursts was someone, once here and now no longer, who tried to score points in a truly forgettable exchange by making a comment about Dilmus' son, who died in a car crash, an outburst which prompted even the forces of the Anti-Dilmus to object.

Even his name was used against him, fer cryin' out loud. When he first made his appearance on the ham sites, everybody called him Mack, because that was his preference. Then someone discovered his name was Dilmus, and many experienced puberty for the second time, and he was ridiculed for his name, which his father both gave to and shared with him. It wasn't cruel, but it was petty.

But God, were those pictures of the guns a pain in the ass! :)

It's all water over the dam now, and it never really was that important. Let's face it, all of the discussions about politics, religion, and CB serve only to allow us to vent our emotions in an environment where it's tolerated and understood. Real change happens only after you walk away from the computer.

KC2UGV

11-30-2011, 10:32 AM

I found that if you read his post carefully, decided to take it seriously, and then responded with carefully arrayed and deployed arguments that he was receptive and engaging.

lolwut?

He basically berated everything he didn't like as "socialist", but when taken to task about his own socialism, he spun out of control.

Every. Single. Time.

He was the same about being anti-union; but when you took him to task about his former life as an AT&T person being what it was because of unions; again, he spun out of control.

Every. Single. Time.

He held some zany notions, that were quite contrary to his own positions. And, when took to task on them, the reactionary stance of someone defending his/her own congnitive dissonance pooped right up and took control.

ab1ga

11-30-2011, 10:50 AM

KC2UGV

11-30-2011, 10:56 AM

Again, my experience with him differed strongly from what others seem to have endured. I don't know why, but I found interacting with him to be more of a game than anything else, and he never spun out of control with me.

My guess is that I tended to pick those topics which weren't so loaded on both sides, so his trigger never got pulled.

I'll admit, I found it to be a game with him as well: I would pull his trigger, and wait for him to spin out.

I'd push the AT&T buttons a lot, and I'd push the personal socialist thing a lot. In fact, I fine-tuned the socialism button for use with many people who espouse the same nonsense of "Keep the government out of Social Security!" mantra :)

KJ3N

11-30-2011, 11:33 AM

In fact, I fine-tuned the socialism button for use with many people who espouse the same nonsense of "Keep the government out of Social Security!" mantra :)

Morans... ;)

WØTKX

11-30-2011, 11:40 AM

It was his consistent racist rants that did him in. Gee whiz, I really miss that. :roll:

K7SGJ

11-30-2011, 12:17 PM

And your hemorrhoids?

W3WN

11-30-2011, 12:37 PM

This (http://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php?19491-DEMS-WALK-AWAY-FROM-SUPER-COMMITTEE&p=386151#post386151) appears to be his last post. I'm hoping he's just giving himself a temporary timeout.Boy. I'm glad I'm not involved in THAT thread.

WØTKX

11-30-2011, 01:09 PM

He's done it before, taken a sabbatical and come back.

The Bartender's post regarding the parroting of FAUX and Drudge propaganda nonsense is spot on. SmirkingChimp, DailyKos, and such are good foils, with plenty of good information. IMHO, there is also less propaganda. Huffington Post is in it for the money, and I don't like them so much, particularly after the AOL merger.

And I :heart: digby's Hullabaloo.

W3MIV

11-30-2011, 03:57 PM

I confess I miss Charles.

But not the damned umbrellas.

WØTKX

11-30-2011, 04:27 PM

Awww. A pink umbrella for you. :snicker:

http://castlesandcooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/2011-07-08_23-12-37_993-600x336.jpg

WØTKX

11-30-2011, 04:28 PM

Back "On topic" for this thread...

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/12/14/7b204378-64b9-4e26-a044-dea0c4ac03ae.jpg

suddenseer

11-30-2011, 09:35 PM

It's my turn to chime in......ding.http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/2009/09/large_Sept_PICK.jpg

NQ6U

11-30-2011, 09:44 PM

It's my turn to chime in......ding.http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/2009/09/large_Sept_PICK.jpg

Are you flaunting your dong again??

suddenseer

11-30-2011, 09:55 PM

Are you flaunting your dong again??I guess one cannot have the ding without the dong. zzzzzz

K7SGJ

11-30-2011, 10:23 PM

Are you flaunting your dong again??

Might be a case of the clappers.

WØTKX

12-01-2011, 12:24 AM

I love how this thread has devolved from acrimony to silliness. :lol:

Errr... Clackers?

http://youtu.be/FLHftISLNHE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLHftISLNHE

NQ6U

12-01-2011, 12:58 AM

I love how this thread has devolved from acrimony to silliness. :lol:

We could go back to acrimony if you want to. The person who started this thread copied a post of mine from a private forum and posted it on Facebook. I took exception to that, and told him so.

ad4mg

12-01-2011, 04:33 AM

We could go back to acrimony if you want to. The person who started this thread copied a post of mine from a private forum and posted it on Facebook. I took exception to that, and told him so.
Pretty juvenile. Guess he's getting even with us for not banning him. We're just a bunch of bullies, you know?

w2amr

12-01-2011, 04:54 AM

Pretty juvenile. Guess he's getting even with us for not banning him. We're just a bunch of bullies, you know?Ahhh shaddup ya stinkin dweebs.:snicker:

w2amr

12-01-2011, 04:55 AM

W3WN

12-01-2011, 06:11 AM

I love how this thread has devolved from acrimony to silliness. :lol:
Nu?

N7YA

12-01-2011, 08:02 AM

I thought every thread here devolved into silliness.

KJ3N

12-01-2011, 08:04 AM

Nu?

Ni!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/Knightni.jpg/400px-Knightni.jpg

N7YA

12-01-2011, 08:19 AM

Nanu nanu!

ab1ga

12-01-2011, 08:26 AM

Nah.

WØTKX

12-01-2011, 08:11 PM

Ma na ma na!

http://youtu.be/1i-L3YTeJJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i-L3YTeJJM

W7XF

12-04-2011, 12:24 AM

May the Schwartz be with us xD

n2ize

12-04-2011, 04:25 AM

Ni!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/Knightni.jpg/400px-Knightni.jpg

Ecky Ecky Ecky Ftang Zoop Boing Zow...ni

N2CHX

12-04-2011, 08:51 AM

Are you flaunting your dong again??

That is one big double dong.

N8YX

12-04-2011, 09:07 AM

That is one big double dong.

Steven King once gave an interview and therein recounted the tale of the "twi-night double header" which revolved around a discussion between his father and his uncle regarding back-to-back baseball games. Young, impressionable Steven took the term as meaning the creature lurking under his bed. Old, sarcastic Steven may view the comment in a similar light, albeit with different types of monsters. ;)