Stumbling into the World of Mac...

[W3MIV]

This Friday, I plan to take advantage of the imaginary savings that the Apple Folks will try to make me believe and buy a Mac Mini. I am opting for a 2.7GHz Intel Core i7;, 8GB of DDR3 RAM; a 7.2krpm, 750GB SATA HD; MacBook Air Superdrive; wired keyboard (w/ numpad) and Apple's 3-year protection plan. Since I already own a few HP 22" HD (1960dpi) DVI monitors, I opted not to buy that feature, although I argued with myself long and hard over their 27" Thunderbolt display.

Tiny package. Final cost alleged to be $1,526 or less (depending on what they actually do offer as their infamous "Black Friday Sale"). Of course, sales tax bloats the final.

Between me and the missus, we have lots of Adobe PS licenses, but I will have to buy another copy of Lightroom, I think. I must bargain with the injuns of Mountain View to see if'n I can switch my current desktop copy from PC to Mac. I doubt it, but it is worth a try.

Incredible amount of power stuffed in a very tiny box, and enough room to run Winnders alongside Lion if I choose.

Wish me luck. I am old and mentally feeble, all the more so in the world of cyber bullshit.

[ab1ga]

Here's one way you could approach it:

"My wife and I have purchased thousands of dollars worth of licenses for your product since before I had grey hair. I now wish to convert one of those licenses from the PC platform to the Mac. If you allow me to do so at no cost to me, I will continue to purchase additional licenses from you in the future. However, should you narrow-mindedly focus on current-quarter profits, I will assume full retiree status and henceforth create all my future work using oil on canvas, thereby reducing your claim upon my wealth to zero. Choose wisely."

[kf0rt]

Good luck, Albi.

I've had a Mac Mini here for a couple years. It's actually my second. Bought it with the idea of getting into iPhone programming, but that never really happened. The "new" one is a modern Intel-based thing; was at the bottom of the Apple pile when I bought it maybe two years ago. I've got it connected to the main monitors and such (run a dual-monitor set up here) via a pair of KVM switches that shares with my main Windows machine. Hit the power switch on the Mac and two buttons, and my Win7 environment switches to OSX.

Must say, I hardly use it. Not that it's bad (it isn't), but many years of Windows has me in that camp; not for any sort of excellence, but in time and software investment. As a hobby in such, I think I'm done and the computer has become a utilitarian device.

I think you may like it, though. In the world of OS wars, it's like going into your favorite supermarket the day after they rearranged all the aisles. The food is still there, but now you have to look for it. ;)

ETA: Just checked my copy of Lightroom; appears to be licensed for both Windows and OSX. You might want to check the fine print on that before springing for another copy.

[W3MIV]

Just checked my copy of Lightroom; appears to be licensed for both Windows and OSX. You might want to check the fine print on that before springing for another copy.

TU for that suggestion, Robby. I will do just that.

I have been lightening ship for the approaching move, maybe next year. Getting rid of two big boxes that are now surplus, and keeping one PC laptop (ASUS i7) and the Mini.

Just found an interesting comment about Lion on the Apple site. Apparently, the new OS can "pirate" an optical drive in another computer, either Mac or PC, and be used as though it were built into the Mini. Interesting idea, so I shall drop the Superdrive from the list for now, anyway -- there is an Apple store quite near me should my confusion overbalance my economy. Also, the Apple folks have taken a page from the MS book and are now installing a full restore system on a partition (instead of supply DVDs) that includes a lot of troubleshooting options, including good ol' "system restore" under another name. Can't remember how many times I have done something stupid, only to cry "SHIT!" and reach back to an earlier date!

I looked at the MacBook Air and was suitably impressed, but it looks like I might damage it with a hard look. (My current ASUS laptop weighs about eight pounds).

I don't really need another 'puter. More than anything else, it is for the lulz.

[N1LAF]

Albert, there is a lot of support for dual-booting those mac mini's. Dual boot with Windows will not void the warranty. I believe Apple has software you can download (if not included) to assist with the dual boot. You can have the best of both in that small package. Many dual boot with Linux, and run Windows using VMware.

http://www.apple.com/science/whymac/myths.html



Myth: Windows and Linux applications don’t run on a Mac.
Fact: You can run most anything on Macs, no matter what the platform.

Boot Camp from Apple, you can dual-boot your system into either Mac OS X or Windows XP. Alternatively, using virtualization software such as Parallels Desktop for Mac or VMWare, you can run Windows XP, Linux, or any other operating system simultaneously with Mac OS X.

Using the SDXC memory, you can use it for data storage for use on both OS's

[kf0rt]

TU for that suggestion, Robby. I will do just that.

I have been lightening ship for the approaching move, maybe next year. Getting rid of two big boxes that are now surplus, and keeping one PC laptop (ASUS i7) and the Mini.

Just found an interesting comment about Lion on the Apple site. Apparently, the new OS can "pirate" an optical drive in another computer, either Mac or PC, and be used as though it were built into the Mini. Interesting idea, so I shall drop the Superdrive from the list for now, anyway -- there is an Apple store quite near me should my confusion overbalance my economy. Also, the Apple folks have taken a page from the MS book and are now installing a full restore system on a partition (instead of supply DVDs) that includes a lot of troubleshooting options, including good ol' "system restore" under another name. Can't remember how many times I have done something stupid, only to cry "SHIT!" and reach back to an earlier date!

I looked at the MacBook Air and was suitably impressed, but it looks like I might damage it with a hard look. (My current ASUS laptop weighs about eight pounds).

I don't really need another 'puter. More than anything else, it is for the lulz.


Doing it for the lulz is the best approach.

I have actually seen a set-up where the user can run Windows on one monitor and OSX on another and seamlessly move from one to another -- two computers, one mouse and one keyboard but two computers. No switches; the mouse moves from one environment to the other. Gotta love virtualization.

Been playing with Linux a bit here (have a work project coming up that may force some expertise in this area). On the home machine, I run Linux (Ubuntu) in a VMware Player session under Win7 Home; Linux on one screen and Windows on the other; both at the same time and on the same computer. Floors me that you can cut text from the Linux session and paste it into the Windows session -- it really does "just work."

Networked drives should be a piece o' cake in about any environment these days. For a cheap solution to the DVD drive thing, you can buy an inexpensive ($50?) external USB drive that will plug right into the Mac; no external power required (same drive you'd buy for a Windows machine). The Mac software is good enough that you can even rebuild your internal hard drive from scratch using an external DVD drive (I've done it). The Mac will boot from an external drive.

Far from a Mac expert here (Windows still pays my bills), but a lot has changed since Apple switched to the Intel platform. (Paul is right.) Today's Macs will run Windows natively, if that's your desire. There are a lot of multi-boot and virtualization options out there in all platforms. The only thing you can't do (legally) is run OSX on an open-platform Windows machine. Oh, I've had it running on an Acer motherboard, but you have to dig into the underworld of OSX86 for that and it's not real pretty.

All in all, in the world of tech lulz, I'd prefer to play in the Nikon realm these days. Old-fart burnout, I guess. Computers of any ilk don't much impress me these days. Pedestrian devices, they are.

[KC2UGV]

I've been debating going the Mac route too... Still undecided, but those MacBook Airs look sweet, and are UNIX 2000 certified.

[NQ6U]

Albi, I've been using Macs for over twenty years now, have worked as a contract Apple factory rep and a freelance Mac consultant. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.

[WØTKX]

OOooooo, daPope is a Genius at the Apple Bar Altar. :mrgreen:

I used to do authorized factory service on Classics and SE's. Case crackin' fun times. ;)

Keep looking at the Mini myself, and watch for used ones on Craigslist.


Like Rob, I am more of a Winders geek than Apple as my work life immersed me in it.

[W4GPL]

Isn't Mac a black thing? :shifty:

My apologies to Pat Robertson. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57330829/robertson-is-mac-n-cheese-a-black-thing/

In seriousness, I find Mac hardware to be absurdly overpriced for the value and their quality control is suspect -- but this is just one man's limited experience. We use Mac stuff at the office and I'm unimpressed. But whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with it.

[WØTKX]

It's all about the insanely great experience. ;)

Never bought a new one, always an older used Mac for me.

I actually have a PowerMac clone, it's about a Pentium I speed.
Has Beos on it, but it's not been booted in a over a year.

[n2ize]

Isn't Mac a black thing? :shifty:

My apologies to Pat Robertson. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57330829/robertson-is-mac-n-cheese-a-black-thing/
(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57330829/robertson-is-mac-n-cheese-a-black-thing/)

Mac & cheese was a Reagan thing. it was Reagan's favorite dish.

[n2ize]

It's all about the insanely great experience. ;)

Never bought a new one, always an older used Mac for me.

I actually have a PowerMac clone, it's about a Pentium I speed.
Has Beos on it, but it's not been booted in a over a year.

I hear some people who experience Mac have flashbacks decades later.

[W3MIV]

Albi, I've been using Macs for over twenty years now, have worked as a contract Apple factory rep and a freelance Mac consultant. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.

Grazie, Carlo. I appreciate that and will keep it in mind.


In seriousness, I find Mac hardware to be absurdly overpriced for the value and their quality control is suspect -- but this is just one man's limited experience. We use Mac stuff at the office and I'm unimpressed. But whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with it.

You are correct about prices, though I am not so sure about QC. It is, however, understandable given their paltry share of the computer market. Were it not for the iPod, iPhone and now the iPad, Apple would long ago have become a memory.

That said, most graphics front ends in the printing industry are still dominated by the Mac, and that is largely because the system really is superior for those uses. Just enough business share to keep up a decent small profit from the line, but it would not likely carry the company without the massive profits generated by the "toy" segments and the iTunes segments. They have no other option than to charge a bit more. Regardless, nobody else has an industrial design department that can rival Apple.

I have been using Win/DOS computers since 1985, and my xyl has been using Macs since 1987. Our biggest stumbling blocks are habits, both good and bad, that make some actions more automatic than they should be. It is hard as hell to stop and think when you have been doing something for so long. The learning curve will be a challenge, but I don't see it as insurmountable.

In so far as my professional needs are concerned, I can easily fall back on the PC if push comes to shove on any particular project, but the lulz will come from mastering something new -- and at my advanced age that is almost as much fun as sex.

[K7SGJ]

And mastering something new happens way more often(for some of us) than this sex you refer to.

[NQ6U]

Albi, challenging yourself to learn something new is good for neurons! And my experience has been that it is far easier for a Windows user to adapt to OS X than it was with the "Classic" Mac OS. It works in reverse, too—changing over from DOS to a Mac since before the advent of Windows 3.1, I was pretty much baffled by Windows until after I'd used OS X for a while. Only then could I wrap my brain around the file system browser paradigm.

[W3MIV]

And mastering something new happens way more often(for some of us) than this sex you refer to.

Why in hell do you think I'm spending all this money?

[n2ize]

Is there really that much of a vast difference between a Mac and a PC ? As a unit unto itself it is pretty much the same, a bundle of electronics and some mechanics. And unlike a radio or a toaster it is basically worthless unless there is some kind of software running on top of it to make it do something useful.

Which leads me to think, the real difference from one machine to another is the Op Sys and the software as opposed to the hardware.. Case and point, the "look and feel" of any computer is a product of software more than anything else. My current computer has a very different "look and feel" than the IBM Mainframe, or the PDP-11, or the VAXen I grew up on but, underneath the hood they are basically similar (albeit more modern with respect to processor, memory, etc. The"look and feel" of a Mac sort of reminds me of the "look and feel" of my KDE desktop on Linux which is very different in "look and feel" than the same machine booted up and running Windows.

Beyond that I don't find modern day computers to be much of a challenge. If I can get work done on one I can quickly adapt to doing the same on another platform. My current preference is for KDE/Linux. More interesting is the underlying stuff, programming, and the theory and nuances of cryptography, algorithms and efficiency. and yeah, I still do a lot of stuff on a pencil and paper... but I would like to get a writing tablet.

[NQ6U]

IWhich leads me to think, the real difference from one machine to another is the Op Sys and the software as opposed to the hardware.

You pompously expound upon this as if it were some brilliant insight, John, when it has always been thus.

[n2ize]

You pompously expound upon this as if it were some brilliant insight, John, when it has always been thus.

What is wrong with a simple yes or no without the unnecessary put down ? No I wasn't trying to be pompous or trying to show some great wisdom. I merely tried to ask a question. Now I am sorry I bothered to ask. If I really wanted to be pompous and arrogant I would have said, "it doesn't take any brains to turn on a computer and click on stuff with a mouse".

[NQ6U]

Pomposity = using three paragraphs to ask a simple question.

[n2ize]

Pomposity = using three paragraphs to ask a simple question.

WELL.... EXCUUUUUSE ME !!! I didn't realize that I am required to keep my discussions very short. I figured it would be okay to throw in a bit of insight into the rationale behind what I am trying to say. But since you say it was pompousI might as well make it really pompous and say,


the Mac is basically a way overpriced bundle of electronic components in which you are basically paying a high price for a name and the only saving grace it has is that Mac OS is based on a well designed 40 year old operating system that has stood the test of time and that can be run on almost any modern platform.


Hope that was pompous enough. :mrgreen:

[NQ6U]

WELL.... EXCUUUUUSE ME !!! I didn't realize that I am required to keep my discussions very short. I figured it would be okay to throw in a bit of insight into the rationale behind what I am trying to say. But since you say it was pompousI might as well make it really pompous and say,


the Mac is basically a way overpriced bundle of electronic components in which you are basically paying a high price for a name and the only saving grace it has is that Mac OS is based on a well designed 40 year old operating system that has stood the test of time and that can be run on almost any modern platform.


Hope that was pompous enough. :mrgreen:

I guess I coulda just said "Well, duh..." ;)

[n2ize]

I guess I coulda just said "Well, duh..." ;)

Now THAT is pomposity :)

[KC2UGV]

I guess I coulda just said "Well, duh..." ;)

Winning!

[W3MIV]

John, please don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes it is difficult to divine when your posts are serious or not. The premises set forth in your treble-paragraph opus fell readily into the "curious" category since you were stating the obvious, but a such length that it threw a few dozen rockets into the ether.

[KC2UGV]

The"look and feel" of a Mac sort of reminds me of the "look and feel" of my KDE desktop

KDE and Mac's UI share some DNA, through CDE.

[NQ6U]

KDE and Mac's UI share some DNA, through CDE.

Apple also used KHTML as the basis for it's open source WebKit, the foundation of both Safari and Chrome.

[W3MIV]

I put off buying the Mini for a few weeks. Checked out the "deals" on Apple's great "Black Friday" sale -- One Day ONLY! -- and there is no deal on either the Mini or the desktop. "Save $101 on iMac!"

Such a deal, awreddy!

I shall wait a few weeks and see if there are any holiday deals. I suspect that the Mini, like its gargantuan stablemate, sees less sales overall, and the bulk of those sales are probably among a professional clientele. Can't really blame Apple for not wanting to give discounts to people who use their hardware as a profit-center (although they were offering the same $101 on MacBook Pro).

[KJ3N]

Isn't Mac a black thing? :shifty:

My apologies to Pat Robertson. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57330829/robertson-is-mac-n-cheese-a-black-thing/

Never apologize to Pat Robertson. He's another religious asshole who needs to STFU. :slap:

[KJ3N]

And mastering something new happens way more often (for some of us) than this sex you refer to.

My condolences to you and Albi. :neener: :rofl:

[n6hcm]

many items on apple's website were discounted about 10% on black friday, and that's as good as it gets unless you're an apple employee or a developer (who has to pay to belong to the developer program).