Changes on 60m

[NQ6U]

They're going to change one of the channel frequencies to avoid QRM. Even better, it looks like we're gonna be allowed to use 100 watts PEP and some of the digital modes on the 60m band starting next year!

http://www.fcc.gov/document/amateur-radio-service-5-mhz

[N8YX]

Permitting PACTOR on that band is a serious mistake, especially when tne lidiot SysOps turn their busy-channel detectors off...as we all know they will. This decision is a serious misjudgment on tbe part of the FCC, and the inevitable interference problem could have been mitigated to a large degree simply by restricting PACTOR BBS operation to one channel only.

This should serve as notice that the ARRL - the organization behind the push to open the band for digital mail-forwarding operations - in actuality speaks for very little of the amateur population. Some prime spectrum will now become the exclusive playground of a very few operators, at the expense of everyone else.

[VE7DCW]

It appears that Hams on this side of the border are going to get in on all this 60 meter stuff as well:

2011-08-07

RAC Bulletin 2011-022E - Industry Canada Responds Favourably to RAC request for access to 60M. Public consultation to begin shortly.
2011-08-07
Over the last year RAC has been in discussions with Industry Canada with the objective of obtaining access to 60M. This has been a policy objective of RAC since Spring of 2010.
At the last CARAB meeting between RAC and Industry Canada on May 17, 2011, two of the major items discussed were updates to Industry Canada's regulatory documents (RBR-4 and RIC-3), and the RAC request for an assignment of certain frequencies in the 60m (5 MHz) band to the amateur service in Canada. Neither of these subjects was finalized at the time of the meeting, but Industry Canada undertook to respond to RAC on both ofthem this summer.
Industry Canada has now informed RAC that at this point is sees no reason not to respond favourably to the RAC request for frequencies at 60m on a no protection, non-interference basis.
The new frequencies would be included in the schedule of amateur frequencies in the updated edition of RBR-4 to be released for public consultation in the future. Public submissions will be considered by Industry Canada in preparation for the final version of RBR-4. Any new frequencies it contains would become available to Canadian amateurs at the time of release of the updated RBR-4. Thus, if all goes well, Canadian amateurs may expect to gain access to frequencies at 60m, basically the same as those in the US, some time this fall.
The anticipated success of this initiative is the result of many months of effort from the RAC executive and volunteers, including the HF Band Planning Committee, and also from all of those amateurs who have made observations on the use of these frequencies and relayed their comments to RAC on the need for this band in Canada. We would not have been successful without all of your help and input.
Geoff Bawden, VE4BAW
President and Chair Radio Amateurs of Canada
Co-Chair of Canadian Amateur Radio Advisory Board

I'm expecting that by early 2012 Industry Canada will be giving the green light for us to use the same frequencies ........


:rock:

[WØTKX]

It's a fun band. Will be more fun with CW, PSK, and 100 watts. :yes:

[ad4mg]

It's a fun band. Will be more fun with CW, PSK, and 100 watts. :yes:
I'd agree, but the email bots of the winstink network will lessen any enjoyment. Expect them to control at least 3 of the 'channels'. I also expect that the primary users will quickly grow weary of the bots. Even when they bother to turn on busy channel detection, it's ineffective.

It's our own fault ... when the ARRL bandwidth proposal (RM-11306) came to light, we organized and fought it back. This appeared to slip through with hardly a whimper. I think it's a good thing in the long run ... for the first time, amateurs will see how bad lid operators using a proprietary protocol can be. Pactor III is in no way compatible with any other mode. It was designed to operate on frequencies dedicated to pactor, not frequencies with other operating modes. A CW, PSK, or SSB signal won't stand a snowball's chance in hell when a bot fires up on frequency. Your QSO will be over.

As a bonus, you will not be able to identify the offending signal without purchasing a proprietary $1,000 modem.

[KC2UGV]

I'd agree, but the email bots of the winstink network will lessen any enjoyment. Expect them to control at least 3 of the 'channels'. I also expect that the primary users will quickly grow weary of the bots. Even when they bother to turn on busy channel detection, it's ineffective.

It's our own fault ... when the ARRL bandwidth proposal (RM-11306) came to light, we organized and fought it back. This appeared to slip through with hardly a whimper. I think it's a good thing in the long run ... for the first time, amateurs will see how bad lid operators using a proprietary protocol can be. Pactor III is in no way compatible with any other mode. It was designed to operate on frequencies dedicated to pactor, not frequencies with other operating modes. A CW, PSK, or SSB signal won't stand a snowball's chance in hell when a bot fires up on frequency. Your QSO will be over.

As a bonus, you will not be able to identify the offending signal without purchasing a proprietary $1,000 modem.

I think PIII designation is useless for this band. No automated stations allowed.

[ad4mg]

I think PIII designation is useless for this band. No automated stations allowed.
I knew someone would bite. Winlink PMBO's claim to operate in "semi-automatic" mode, a fictitious mode where the control operator is not actually at the console. With busy channel detection turned off, nothing stops the PMBO from answering a poll for email from any winstink station. With busy channel detection on, it is barely better. The p-III modems are designed only to detect other densely modulated signals, i.e., other p-III modems.

The "no automatic operation" rule never bothered the winstink network. Actually, few of the rules do. Why, Mr. Waterman (winstink network admin) himself said that turning on busy channel detection only serves to lower throughput.

Fascinating discussion of the plague upon amateur radio, but I fought my fight, alongside Albert and many other hams, not so long ago during the war that was RM-11306. I am as weary of winstink as I am members of the repub party.

[W7XF]

Burning question: Will the radio manufacturers give us a way to flash our radio ROMs to reflect the frequency adjustment, as well as let us run 100W???

[kb2vxa]

"I think PIII designation is useless for this band."
Not necessarily so.

"No automated stations allowed."
Or so it seems.

From the R&O:
"We find merit in the commenters’ concerns and conclude that ARRL’s underlying
assumption that stations transmitting data emissions are not under automatic control should be
incorporated in the Commission’s Rules as part of our decision to add new data emission types. Our
prohibition on automatically controlled stations will also help ensure that when Federal agencies need to
exercise their primary use of the 60 meter band frequencies, amateur licensees will be better positioned to
avoid causing harmful interference and we include this restriction in Section 97.221(c)."

Here's the rub, nowhere do I find any codification. That is to say that everything on the web I have searched through discloses no change to 97.221(c) as of this writing. This leaves me confused, since the document was adopted on 16 November and released 18 November maybe the spiders haven't located an updated Part 97? Has an update even been published yet?

[ki4itv]

I knew someone would bite.
:lol: Yea, no sh!t.
Though you can copy the mailbots callsign as a burst of P1 at the beginning of a transmission, if they're doing it correctly. MultiPSK can help you accomplish that meager, but important morsel.

Like you, I'm kinda glad they get to show their ass on 60m...and right toward the peak of cycle 24 too.
Let the fireworks begin. I've been waiting patiently. :yes:

[WØTKX]

Thump CW on the center channel and not interfere with either allowed data mode? :dunno:

[KC2UGV]

Thump CW on the center channel and not interfere with either allowed data mode? :dunno:

CW and PSK can operate right on top of each other, with nary an issue.

[WØTKX]

Well yea. And gosh darn it tatall, I just can't hear that Pactor III signal. Silly 50 Hz filter. ;)

[ki4itv]

Well yea. And gosh darn it tatall, I just can't hear that Pactor III signal. Silly 50 Hz filter. ;)

Try that when copying weak signal PSK DX. The results are not quite as calming.

I had one high-level ARRL official (K4 in Tennessee, ahem) who continuously stomped on my efforts to collect DX contacts on 30m. It was relentless and extremely frustrating. His actions on the air, and his efforts to change part 97 regulations have not only allowed me to focus my distrust on him, but also on the true intentions of the ARRL as well. Quite an accomplishment when you consider that I literally grew up reading QST's with great reverence and appreciation.

If and when I ever run into this guy, he will get a hardy mouthful of "F*ck You and your mailbot cartel" from this once extremely active participant in digital modes.
I'm not a hater, usually, but these asshats have earned the entirety of my latent scorn.

[ad4mg]

Try that when copying weak signal PSK DX. The results are not quite as calming.

I had one high-level ARRL official (K4 in Tennessee, ahem) who continuously stomped on my efforts to collect DX contacts on 30m. It was relentless and extremely frustrating. His actions on the air, and his efforts to change part 97 regulations have not only allowed me to focus my distrust on him, but also on the true intentions of the ARRL as well. Quite an accomplishment when you consider that I literally grew up reading QST's with great reverence and appreciation.

If and when I ever run into this guy, he will get a hardy mouthful of "F*ck You and your mailbot cartel" from this once extremely active participant in digital modes.
I'm not a hater, usually, but these asshats have earned the entirety of my latent scorn.
The following list is offered as a community service. It is the winlink development team, the very people you may wish to thank when your 60m qso's are obliterated by p-III winlid transmissions:

Victor D. Poor, W5SMM
Rick Muething, KN6KB
Steve Waterman, K4CJX
Tom Lafleur, KA6IQA
Lee Inman, K0QED
Hans A. Kessler, N8PGR
Don Moore, KM0R
Tyler Gaillard, KT4XD
Lor Kutchins, W3QA
Neil Hughes, VE1YZ
Don Trotter, VE1DTR
Phil Sutherland, VK6KPS
Peter Woods, N6PRW
Steve Hicks, N5AC
Phil Sherrod, W4PHS
Trey, your best buddy is #3 in that list. Steve Waterman, winlink network administrator, who suggests winlid operators turn off the signal detection feature in the incompatible (to other amateur radio modes), proprietary, overpriced scs modems in the interest of greater throughput.

It's all about free internet email for yachts. So sorry it inconveniences so many ...

[ki4itv]

Well, he's number one on my list and I'm here to tell you that there is no question he practices what he preaches.


I'll leave it at that for now. I'm sure most of you have heard my anti-Winlink rantings before. As a sailor who reads the trade magazines, it was easy for me to conclude very early on what was happening with the pacTOR III drive within amateur radio. But, let's not leave the RV'ers out either...they are a growing group of concern as well. The EMCOMM'ers are being used as camouflage, and are willing dupes in something that has no real concern for them.
This system needs to be completely run out of the HF amateur radio spectrum.

[ki4itv]

CW and PSK can operate right on top of each other, with nary an issue.

Actually, this depends on the relative signal strength of the two QSO's.

PSK stronger than (or equal to) CW = full copy OM
CW much stronger than PSK = sry OM, no copy, 73 till next time. QSY

[ad4mg]

Well, he's number one on my list and I'm here to tell you that there is no question he practices what he preaches.


I'll leave it at that for now. I'm sure most of you have heard my anti-Winlink rantings before. As a sailor who reads the trade magazines, it was easy for me to conclude very early on what was happening with the pacTOR III drive within amateur radio. But, let's not leave the RV'ers out either...they are a growing group of concern as well. The EMCOMM'ers are being used as camouflage, and are willing dupes in something that has no real concern for them.
This system needs to be completely run out of the HF amateur radio spectrum.
Mine, too. I did my number on RV'ers as well, but the system was designed to provide free internet email to those rich, brave souls who sail the seven seas in their satellite TV equipped dinghy's.

Their behavior in a mixed mode environment will illustrate beyond a shadow of a doubt what an 'asset' free internet email for the yacht boys is.

Bon Voyage, Winlids!

[NQ6U]

Actually, this depends on the relative signal strength of the two QSO's.

PSK stronger than (or equal to) CW = full copy OM
CW much stronger than PSK = sry OM, no copy, 73 till next time. QSY

As a general rule, however, PSK31 ops usually restrain themselves to a 2KHz segment of the various ham bands—roughly that of a single SSB signal. While there's occasionally some slop over into the CW segments when conditions are very crowded, I've seen a lot more CW ops working in the PSK segment than the other way around.

[ki4itv]

It's our own fault ... when the ARRL bandwidth proposal (RM-11306) came to light, we organized and fought it back. This appeared to slip through with hardly a whimper.
I totally missed this thought earlier. Dayamn!
It may just be the Mississippi in me, but sometimes, rather than spend the time and effort of building a fence... you just have to bait a trap and be patient. Absolutely perfect timing if you ask me. 5-7 yrs tops...and this glaring obliviousness to the competition with commercial carriers rule is over and done with.
:clap:

[ki4itv]

As a general rule, however, PSK31 ops usually restrain themselves to a 2KHz segment of the various ham bands—roughly that of a single SSB signal. While there's occasionally some slop over into the CW segments when conditions are very crowded, I've seen a lot more CW ops working in the PSK segment than the other way around.
True, and there are very good reasons for that. Regular PSK ops tend to be extremely conscientious as operators because of the modes sensitivity and they also wish to "see" what's happening around them... at the same time, there are a lot of ancient CW ops that don't even remember digital modes exist. Then there is the fact that CW is allowed anywhere, anytime, for any reason (other than almost now, 60m).

[ki4itv]

Sorry guy's, I'm fast approaching my drugs and alcohol posting limit. I will refrain from posting in serious threads and shift to snarky, hilarious mode, which only allows me to hit the post button in "not so serious" discussions.
Thank you for your patience and understanding, it is for the greater good.
Peace

[NQ6U]

Sorry guy's, I'm fast approaching my drugs and alcohol posting limit. I will refrain from posting in serious threads and shift to snarky, hilarious mode, which only allows me to hit the post button in "not so serious" discussions.
Thank you for your patience and understanding, it is for the greater good.
Peace

Hey, this isn't a serious discussion at all. Feel free to get as snarky and hilarious as you want. Besides, it's almost 15:00, time to break out the mind-altering substances here on the Left Coast anyhow.

[K7SGJ]

Why? Fragmented thought, and posting thereof, is the norm, for some. As for the drugs, didn't your momma ever teach you about bringing enough for everyone?

[ki4itv]

Why? Fragmented thought, and posting thereof, is the norm, for some. As for the drugs, didn't your momma ever teach you about bringing enough for everyone?
Yes, details in the various callsign databases...we'll leave the light on for ya'.

[K7SGJ]

Thank-you Tom Bodett

[ki4itv]

Hey, this isn't a serious discussion at all. Feel free to get as snarky and hilarious as you want. Besides, it's almost 15:00, time to break out the mind-altering substances here on the Left Coast anyhow.

Uhm Carl, I'll have you know that the opposition to this abomination of amateur radio is indeed, very serious business. Unfortunately, most hams don't get it...not saying you really don't, just that I do take it very seriously and that I would personally rather be quoted as a coherent abolitionist. Unlike our beloved Chuckles.