View Full Version : Penn State Mess
If someone else posted about this I apologize.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/sports/ncaafootball/penn-states-paterno-is-not-a-target-in-sexual-abuse-inquiry.html
I've been reading about this scandal and it's extremely disturbing.
It appears an aggressive child molester was tolerated by University officials to preserve JoePa's quest for all time win record. I find it extremely interesting this all comes out right after JoePa gets the record.
These people had evidence or at least a strong suspicion Jerry Sandusky was dirty as far back as 1999, yet did nothing. 1999! Even JoePa is not blame free here. While he did report what his graduate assistant witnessed (who, by the way, did NOTHING to stop the act in process) his mealy mouthed excuse about sending it up the chain doesn't resonate with me at all. This Sandusky creep was a long time employee of JoePa and it appears JoePa was protecting his long-term retired employee and the University by not going to the police. This coming from a man who has built a career on "character development".
This is more an indictment of the college sports system, rather than Penn State University. How many young men did this creep molest because some football crazy administrators and hangers on didn't want to embarrass the University?
I think they all should resign NOW, including Paterno. What a spectacle.
KG4CGC
11-07-2011, 08:47 PM
Saw that earlier. Did not know how to present it to the group. It is seriously effed up.
It's not disturbing - it's predictable.
Sports activities and figures are deified at the expense of everything and everyone else.
Nothing less that a radical overhaul of society is going to fix this.
It's not disturbing - it's predictable.
Sports activities and figures are deified at the expense of everything and everyone else.
Nothing less that a radical overhaul of society is going to fix this.
I don't disagree, but you'd think the sports figures that babble on about "character" and developing character would actually show some.
Even with my well developed cynicism about college "amateurs", this story is completely off the scale for me. It's going to cost the University some serious dollars. Those clowns that protected Sandusky better have some deep pockets also.
suddenseer
11-07-2011, 10:07 PM
There goes Penn State's squeaky clean image. The people falling on their swords to protect JoePa is disgusting.
WØTKX
11-07-2011, 11:43 PM
At least this time it's not a Catholic thing. Just sayin'.
Leave the damn kids alone!
W3MIV
11-08-2011, 05:19 AM
Nothing less that a radical overhaul of society is going to fix this.
I think that is true. We have come too far along this road to make an easy journey back. As with so many other facets of our "modern" society, money has trumped every and all senses of morality. Modern mass communications media are the engine that drives too much of what passes for socially acceptable behavior today; the media moguls and the corporate execs who use them for profit will sit around shaking their heads in disgust, clucking and sighing about the wretched nature of this sordid episode, but all the while they will be plotting ways and means to get past the worst of the public exposure so that they can get back to business as swiftly as they can.
The system is more screwed up than the perp's head.
n2ize
11-08-2011, 06:44 AM
This of course does not represent the entire arena of college sports. This pertains to one particular school. Nothing in this world is perfect. Even in pure academia there are favorites played and things the could be deemed scandalous. However, we mustn't let such incidents cast a negative shadow over all sports, religion, etc.. there is still far more virtue than negativity in sports.
W3MIV
11-08-2011, 06:45 AM
Sure there is.
There goes Penn State's squeaky clean image. The people falling on their swords to protect JoePa is disgusting.JoePa has gotten a lot of people looking out for him over the decades. And to be fair, for the most part, he has earned it.
Keep in mind somethings:
At the time of the alleged incident (which is not to say it didn't happen, but technically, at the moment, it is only an allegation), Sandusky was NOT on Paterno's staff. Read that again: Sandusky was no longer an employee of Penn State, let alone an underling of Paterno's.
The people that Paterno reported the allegations to included the man responsible for the campus police department... and believe me, they are a real police department. There are a lot of complaints that Paterno didn't call the police... but he went right to the guy ultimately in charge.
Now, should Penn State have banned Sandusky at the time of the report? Sure. I would have. I think this is where they failed. Who are "they"? The very people now under indictment for perjury.
It's very easy to blame Paterno. And I agree, he is not without some degree of fault... he did everything he was legally supposed to, but he should have done more, he should not have relied on his AD and the other administration people to take care of it. Maybe he just couldn't bring himself to believe that a long time, once trusted, now retired associate could have done anything close to these accusations; I don't know. Maybe he was lied to by those perpetuating the cover-up; again, I don't know.
My point is that we don't know everything, yet the media and those with their own agendas are screaming for the head of everyone involved to any degree. There is a more than a whiff of a rush to judgement... look, I don't want to defend Sandusky, it makes me ill to even have to write the following line, but the fact of the matter is, he has been charged with a serious and heinous crime, but he has NOT been tried in court, he has NOT been convicted in a court of law. Just in the media.
Of course, whether or not he is convicted (and based on what evidence that's leaked out, he's in deep, deep doo-do), his reputation is ruined, and he will never again be employed by any organization that has anything to do with youth.
Regarding Paterno... well, I don't want to draw a firm conclusion until we know more details about what he actually did about this, what he was told, and what other actions were taken. Without knowing the context, it is difficult to conclude that his apparant inactions in not doing more, in and of themselves, demand that he be forced out. That is not to say that there may not be consequences. His legacy is damaged, to say the least. I simply know that I don't know enough, just what's been reported... and I know that many of these reporters have been looking for reasons to get him fired retired for years, so I'm not so sure that they're all that unbiased.
Context matters.
Now: Don't be surprised if Penn State's President is forced out over the scandal as well. And if Spanier goes, I can almost guarantee that his successor will clean house... odds are also pretty good that even if he isn't, the new Athletic Director (and there almost certainly will be a new AD) will clean house. I strongly suspect that Paterno will not be on the sidelines next year. If not officially because of the scandal, then officially because of his health issues... but more likely, the new AD will take the "high road" and proclaim that anyone tainted by the scandal has to go. Including, if not especially, Paterno.
Woody Hayes couldn't survive punching an opposing player. Compared to what Sandusky is alleged to have done, that's peanuts. So I strongly suspect that Paterno will be gone after the bowl game... and it probably won't be a major bowl unless they win the Big 10+2 championship outright, because of the black cloud Sandusky has brought down on the program.
What a way to go.
W3MIV
11-08-2011, 10:31 AM
What they all did, Ron, was to collude to try to keep a lid on the scandal instead of coming to Jesus straight off the bat. The campus police, BTW, is NOT a real police department. They should have taken the allegations to the real authorities as soon as they realized they had such a problem on their hands.
No excuses. No whining. This is not point-fixing or steroid use. This is serious shit.
What they all did, Ron, was to collude to try to keep a lid on the scandal instead of coming to Jesus straight off the bat. The campus police, BTW, is NOT a real police department. They should have taken the allegations to the real authorities as soon as they realized they had such a problem on their hands.
No excuses. No whining. This is not point-fixing or steroid use. This is serious shit.With all due respect... at least at Penn State, the campus police ARE real police. Same training, same authority. You can verify that with the local magistrate up there, who is a former officer on the State College police force. His name is Carmine Prestia, Jr. Incidentally, he's also K3CWP.
Nor am I making excuses. My point, and maybe I didn't make it as well as I thought I did, was that these are ALLEGATIONS under the law, serious and heinous as they are. All of the people accused of varying degrees of cover-up or inaction, all of them, have been convicted by the media in the court of public opinion, NOT in a court of law.
It's cost Sandusky his freedom (for the moment) and his reputation... which from all accounts it appears it should have. It's also cost the AD and his boss their jobs... which it should IF the allegations prove true, and the indictment for perjury is a pretty strong indication that there's a lot of truth in the allegations of a cover-up.
I'm just saying that we should not rush to judgement. Which seems to be a favorite of the media, especially when it comes to college athletics and sex. But we don't know everything. And sometimes things are not as they first appear... just ask the lacrosse players at Duke.
W3MIV
11-08-2011, 11:43 AM
My only judgment is that the factotums of the university athletics programs acted first to protect the system, to save their own asses and reputations and futures, and that the seriousness of the charges was almost an afterthought in that process. I make no apologies for my disgust; it is all part and parcel of what higher education in the US has become, and I would have not the least pang of conscience to shovel them wholesale into the pit.
No argument about the appearance of CYA. That's already cost 2 people their jobs (and if this is true, as it appears to be, rightfully so) with more necks on the chopping block.
Nor do I have a problem with the guilty paying for their crimes, even if they pay dearly, as their alleged actions have consequences of their own making.
Let's just make sure they are actually guilty first, that's all.
I had a feeling that this one was coming... didn't expect it today, mind you, but I didn't think it would be much longer:
"Penn State Said to Be Planning Paterno Exit Amid Scandal" http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?_r=1&hp
W3MIV
11-08-2011, 02:30 PM
They've got to have a scapegoat, guilty or not. Penn State is not a school; it is a major, for-profit corporation which owes its first and only loyalty to itself. Screw all of the expendables who work for it, from the president down to the janitorial staff. The board is circling its wagons and anyone who is within range is gonna get shot out of the saddle until this scandal is off the front pages.
In the wonderful light of 20-20 hindsight, one wishes that when this first surfaced 10 years ago, a proper investigation would have taken place, and appropriate actions taken. If nothing else, Sandusky's office on campus & his rights to use the facilities (both part of his retirement package, when he was also named an assistant professor emeritus) should have been suspended at LEAST while the investigation was ongoing, and when all was revealed, those rights revoked. To say NOTHING of charges being brought.
Instead, it appears that the two administrators who should have investigated and called in the proper authorities (State Police, Welfare/Human Services/Social Workers, whatever) tried to cover it up and ignore it. And it just blew up in their faces and has cost both of them their jobs, their careers, and their reputations.
What I am having trouble with is knowing what role Paterno had. And word is that he was prepared to discuss it at today's press conference, which the University President's office cancelled. I simply can not believe that JoePa would ignore this or condone it. It does not fit the pattern of the man's life and actions, and the morality that he has demanded of his student-athletes. I know, some of you won't believe that, and will say that he's just another hypocritical major college football coach. I'd like to still believe that's not true of him...
I suspect that the truth, if it ever comes out, will be more on the lines that he reported it, and was told by those conducting the cover-up that there was nothing to it, to put it in a few words. And yes, he definitely should have done more... it could be nothing more than he simply couldn't believe that he one-time heir apparant, friend, etc. was in reality a sexual predator. (How many of us would believe that of someone we'd worked with for decades, based on a single accusation, no matter how heinous?). So he was human, and chose to believe the cover-up, because the accusation seemed so absurd. (How often do most people be thankful that they hear what they wanted to hear, rather than be told an uncomfortable truth. And who does that protect in the long run? No one, it only causes more long term damage). Only, as it now appears as more details (and alleged victims) are surfacing, absurd it wasn't.
Faith in someone who lied to your face as part of a cover-up, someone who chose to hide a crime rather than risk public exposure... what a way to lose your career and your reputation.
KG4CGC
11-08-2011, 08:45 PM
They've got to have a scapegoat, guilty or not. Penn State is not a school; it is a major, for-profit corporation which owes its first and only loyalty to itself. Screw all of the expendables who work for it, from the president down to the janitorial staff. The board is circling its wagons and anyone who is within range is gonna get shot out of the saddle until this scandal is off the front pages.
Sad as it is, keep reminding everyone everyday that we are talking about anal sex with 10 year old boys. This should never EVER be hushed out of the media spotlight.
What I am having trouble with is knowing what role Paterno had. And word is that he was prepared to discuss it at today's press conference, which the University President's office cancelled. I simply can not believe that JoePa would ignore this or condone it. It does not fit the pattern of the man's life and actions, and the morality that he has demanded of his student-athletes. I know, some of you won't believe that, and will say that he's just another hypocritical major college football coach. I'd like to still believe that's not true of him...
Faith in someone who lied to your face as part of a cover-up, someone who chose to hide a crime rather than risk public exposure... what a way to lose your career and your reputation.
Constant deification to the point of sainthood will eventually corrupt even the most perfect individual.
JoePa put Penn State on the map and was rewarded by an extended tenure that outlived the shelf life by about 15 years.
I get your innocent until proven guilty thing, Ron, but this thing is way bigger than lying about phone calls to recruits or having knowledge of illicit tattoos. Paterno would have been better off not commenting at all, rather than issue that mind bogglingly stupid statement saying he reported the incident, so he's cool. What bullshit. I'm not sure who's worse, Paterno, or the that weasly graduate assistant who A. Didn't stop Sandusky from assaulting that child, and B. Didn't go to the cops himself. If it had been me in that locker room, the assault would have been over even it meant I got the hell beat out of me.
We can talk about fairness and doing the right thing, but this stuff was nothing but illegal, non-consential assault on MINORS, and some people felt the program and JoePa was far more important than doing the right thing.
All of these clowns should resign or be fired NOW, including JoePa. Who knows what else is being covered up?
suddenseer
11-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Sad as it is, keep reminding everyone everyday that we are talking about anal sex with 10 year old boys. This should never EVER be hushed out of the media spotlight.Let's get real with this issue. I would think most folks on this forum would have beaten the shit out of the pervert if we witnessed what several Penn State connected people did. I would think I would have beaten the shit out of the perv. I am a gay man, and this gay man would have gotten violent if I saw that. I am a parent, and a grandparent. I would probably go to prison if someone did that to my children, or grandchildren. I am a peaceful person, but if someone fucks with my kids I would probably take the law in my hands. I am just saying.
KG4CGC
11-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Let's get real with this issue. I would think most folks on this forum would have beaten the shit out of the pervert if we witnessed what several Penn State connected people did. I would think I would have beaten the shit out of the perv. I am a gay man, and this gay man would have gotten violent if I saw that. I am a parent, and a grandparent. I would probably go to prison if someone did that to my children, or grandchildren. I am a peaceful person, but if someone fucks with my kids I would probably take the law in my hands. I am just saying.Agreed.
K7SGJ
11-08-2011, 09:37 PM
Let's get real with this issue. I would think most folks on this forum would have beaten the shit out of the pervert if we witnessed what several Penn State connected people did. I would think I would have beaten the shit out of the perv. I am a gay man, and this gay man would have gotten violent if I saw that. I am a parent, and a grandparent. I would probably go to prison if someone did that to my children, or grandchildren. I am a peaceful person, but if someone fucks with my kids I would probably take the law in my hands. I am just saying.
I would love to sit on that jury. You'd be back on the street before the gavel fell.
NA4BH
11-08-2011, 09:50 PM
With all due respect... at least at Penn State, the campus police ARE real police. Same training, same authority.
And all campuses, the Police are the Police. Not "rent-a-cops".
Constant deification to the point of sainthood will eventually corrupt even the most perfect individual.
JoePa put Penn State on the map and was rewarded by an extended tenure that outlived the shelf life by about 15 years.
I get your innocent until proven guilty thing, Ron, but this thing is way bigger than lying about phone calls to recruits or having knowledge of illicit tattoos. Paterno would have been better off not commenting at all, rather than issue that mind bogglingly stupid statement saying he reported the incident, so he's cool. What bullshit. I'm not sure who's worse, Paterno, or the that weasly graduate assistant who A. Didn't stop Sandusky from assaulting that child, and B. Didn't go to the cops himself. If it had been me in that locker room, the assault would have been over even it meant I got the hell beat out of me.
We can talk about fairness and doing the right thing, but this stuff was nothing but illegal, non-consential assault on MINORS, and some people felt the program and JoePa was far more important than doing the right thing.
All of these clowns should resign or be fired NOW, including JoePa. Who knows what else is being covered up?Valid points all.
JoePa had to say something, since the DA revealed that he was called before the Grand Jury, testified, and it was determined that he did not do anything LEGALLY wrong. Yeah, he could have said something better... he made a few remarks off the cuff without fully thinking through the consequences. I'll be he regrets making those comments in that way now.
Oh, and I feel obligated to add... the few reporters who are actually reporting news (facts, not innuendo and blood lust) have reported that the previous DA WAS informed of the investigation into Sandusky's alleged act, and chose not to file charges. Why? Was he completely informed? Was he part of the cover-up? We'll never know, as the man disappeared several years ago and is now considered legally dead.
And let me be very clear on a couple of things:
- First, why didn't the GA who witnessed the alleged asault intervene? I think he has some 'splainin' to do on that.
- Second, in no way do I defend Sandusky or what he is alleged to have done. And even as I say, in the interest of fairness, "alleged," personally I want to beat the crap out of him too. There can be no excuses, none, for a sexual assualt of any sort on a 10 year old.
- Third, the administration should have suspended his access to the campus facilities, including the office he was given as part of his retirement, immediately until & unless he was cleared. They didn't. Those who didn't need to be held accountable for this inexcusable oversight.
- Fourth... I believe that Paterno will be gone at the end of the season. If not before. If he was involved in the cover-up and/or had direct knowledge of the depth of the alleged assault, he has to go. If he was kept in the dark by the school administration, he will be sacrificed to the blood-lust of the crowd. Either way, you'll also see a bloodletting on the football team's coaching staff. Don't be surprised when everyone, and I mean everyone, goes. Next year's team will have a new coach, new coaching staff. The Grand Experiment will be over, and Penn State will just be another football conglomorate masquerading as a major university.
And Paterno announced his retirement this morning, effective at the end of the season.
He's fallen on his sword. The mob has it's blood. Leave him be.
...First, why didn't the GA who witnessed the alleged asault intervene? I think he has some 'splainin' to do on that...
This particular question definitely requires follow-up. The rabbit hole may go a little deeper than people suspect.
And Paterno announced his retirement this morning, effective at the end of the season.
He's fallen on his sword. The mob has it's blood. Leave him be.
Jemele Hill nails it for me.
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/hill-111109/penn-state-not-allow-joe-paterno-retire-terms
But the only interests being served here are Paterno's and Penn State's. If the 84-year-old coach is given the freedom to dictate the terms of his departure, it means that university officials will have shown again that they are unwilling and unprepared to confront their legendary football coach.
[+] Enlargehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1109/espn_a_paterno09_mb_300.jpg (http://forums.hamisland.net/#)AP Photo/Gene J. PuskarPenn State cannot afford to allow Joe Paterno to orchestrate his own exit strategy.
Paterno shouldn't be given the opportunity to coach another game, whether he does it walking the sideline or sitting in the press box. He doesn't deserve to see these seniors -- whose last game in Beaver Stadium on Saturday will be memorable for all the wrong reasons -- play their final home game. He doesn't deserve to be celebrated or supported as he concludes a career now tarnished by his reprehensible, implausible inaction against a former assistant who stands accused of unspeakable crimes against children.
Jemele Hill nails it for me.
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/hill-111109/penn-state-not-allow-joe-paterno-retire-termsThe board fired him last night. He will not be on the sidelines or in the press box on Saturday, or any other day.
And the University President as well.
The media circus has their blood.
I don't think we've heard the last out of Paterno xD At least, via his attorney xD
KG4CGC
11-10-2011, 02:39 PM
Jebus! There's more. Don't give me grief over it being true or not, I'm just the messenger.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
Jebus! There's more. Don't give me grief over it being true or not, I'm just the messenger.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
What was I saying about rabbit holes?
If the allegations at the link are in fact true and McQueary is complicit, I look for him to suck-start a 12ga in the very near future. Along with a few assorted 'donors'.
W2NAP
11-10-2011, 06:04 PM
wow this whole thing is a mess.
ka8ncr
11-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Valid points all.
JoePa had to say something, since the DA revealed that he was called before the Grand Jury, testified, and it was determined that he did not do anything LEGALLY wrong. Yeah, he could have said something better... he made a few remarks off the cuff without fully thinking through the consequences. I'll be he regrets making those comments in that way now.
There is little doubt that there is a cover-up under foot here. But to call out Paterno for something that he didn't witness and only had knowledge of through other parties is a bit harsh. Besides his contract likely having very clear language on how he is supposed to respond when performing his duties as coach, repeating allegations of activities when you didn't witness them is a damned fine way to get sued.
The only fault the coach has is that he didn't call the police and have the GA tell the story to them. Why the GA didn't do it himself, well that is where I get angry.
Jebus! There's more. Don't give me grief over it being true or not, I'm just the messenger.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023Well, consider the source. Mark Madden is a real sleeze.
Which doesn't mean he's wrong. But he's the sports talk equivalent of a Howard Stern, only sleezier. Which is one of the reasons he's no longer welcome in local radio. Suffice to say, fair and balanced... he's not.
And he's been trying to stick it (to put it mildly) to Penn State for years.
I'd want verification or another independant source.
After giving the matter some thought... this might be instructive to see how a few bits of information can be used as a weapon.
First, consider the predator. Jerry Sandusky was Paterno's right hand man for years, considered the heir apparant. Turned down several opportunities to be a head coach elsewhere, while he waited. Until he suddenly and with little warning retired in 1999. And he never worked as a college football coach, anywhere, again.
Why?
Madden speculates that there had been rumors about Sandusky being a predator, and that's why no one else would touch him. Of course, he cites no sources.
But in light of recent events, one can now speculate that someone found out something... no, I don't know who it could have been or what exactly they might have stumbled on, but that's the nice thing abour rumors, right?... confronted him, and permited to quietly retire instead of being exposed. It's certainly plausible, but without evidence, it's merely a nice yarn.
Second, consider that Sandusky founded an organization to help troubled youth. And now he's charged as a child molester, and many of those who've stepped forward (maybe all, I don't know for sure) were connected to him via that foundation. Is is possible, plausible, that he used the organization as a front to gain access to underage youth? Yes. But again... without evidence, it's just a nice yarn.
But if you're going to presume that that is why the foundation was actually founded, and if you presume from the earlier premise that Sandusky was forced to retire after he was found out... but no one ever said anything publicly... why not speculate one step further, that he used the foundation not just as front to funnel kids to him, but to others as well. With the further implication that he was the protected by those others.
And now you have Mark Madden's sleezy rumor. No evidence. Just a nice story that hangs on the frame of a very few facts. It's plausible... but is it true?
And if it is true (evidence! we need evidence!)... then where are all the other victims? I believe 9 have come forward. Only 9? Yes, 1, let alone 9, is 1 too many, and the bastard should be castrated and made to watch as his genitalia is ground up and fed to snakes. Yes, I'm sure that some of the victims have chosen for their own reasons to remain silent. But if Sandusky was the pimp that Madden claims he was... where are the others?
Someone at Penn State helped cover this up. I honestly can't believe Paterno did so. The man had an humongous ego, he had too much authority, he was in place too long. But cover up a crime this heinous? I just can't believe it... but I can believe that others in the administration did participate in the cover-up, to protect Penn State, Paterno, and themselves, though not neccesarily in that order.
So much for the cover-up.
Some of you may find this commentary of interest. http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/?sct=hp_wr_a5&eref=sihp
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 03:36 PM
Some of you may find this commentary of interest. http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/?sct=hp_wr_a5&eref=sihp
It is the duty of certain people to maintain a certain stance on a subject. Especially this author who is writing about a football legend cannot just dwell on this subject and look for fault. Neither can a DA stand around and say, "Well, he hasn't admitted to anything and he seems like a nice guy and all. Without checking the facts, I just don't know and would hate to pin blame on anyone."
As a member of the human race, I know that there are numerous incidents of child rape that go unreported because of the shame. Especially in the case here where kids are "troubled", they will know that this would have never happened to them if they had been "better" boys from the gitgo. Does this implicate anybody? No. It explains why you don't have scores of people making claims.
It is not in Joe Posnanski's best interest to have a JoPa who is a criminal. Yes he has access to much data to write about, but he will need to start all over from the beginning and literally scrap everything he has sacrificed for.
As a parent, i don't see how anyone else who is a parent can stand around and say that they really need to stick their head up Joe Paterno's ass while he admits to wrongdoings before they can judge that he may have some blemishes (and colo-rectal cysts) in his life.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 03:45 PM
JoePa has gotten a lot of people looking out for him over the decades. And to be fair, for the most part, he has earned it.
Keep in mind somethings:
At the time of the alleged incident (which is not to say it didn't happen, but technically, at the moment, it is only an allegation), Sandusky was NOT on Paterno's staff. Read that again: Sandusky was no longer an employee of Penn State, let alone an underling of Paterno's.
The people that Paterno reported the allegations to included the man responsible for the campus police department... and believe me, they are a real police department. There are a lot of complaints that Paterno didn't call the police... but he went right to the guy ultimately in charge.
Now, should Penn State have banned Sandusky at the time of the report? Sure. I would have. I think this is where they failed. Who are "they"? The very people now under indictment for perjury.
It's very easy to blame Paterno. And I agree, he is not without some degree of fault... he did everything he was legally supposed to, but he should have done more, he should not have relied on his AD and the other administration people to take care of it. Maybe he just couldn't bring himself to believe that a long time, once trusted, now retired associate could have done anything close to these accusations; I don't know. Maybe he was lied to by those perpetuating the cover-up; again, I don't know.
My point is that we don't know everything, yet the media and those with their own agendas are screaming for the head of everyone involved to any degree. There is a more than a whiff of a rush to judgement... look, I don't want to defend Sandusky, it makes me ill to even have to write the following line, but the fact of the matter is, he has been charged with a serious and heinous crime, but he has NOT been tried in court, he has NOT been convicted in a court of law. Just in the media.
Of course, whether or not he is convicted (and based on what evidence that's leaked out, he's in deep, deep doo-do), his reputation is ruined, and he will never again be employed by any organization that has anything to do with youth.
Regarding Paterno... well, I don't want to draw a firm conclusion until we know more details about what he actually did about this, what he was told, and what other actions were taken. Without knowing the context, it is difficult to conclude that his apparant inactions in not doing more, in and of themselves, demand that he be forced out. That is not to say that there may not be consequences. His legacy is damaged, to say the least. I simply know that I don't know enough, just what's been reported... and I know that many of these reporters have been looking for reasons to get him fired retired for years, so I'm not so sure that they're all that unbiased.
Context matters.
Now: Don't be surprised if Penn State's President is forced out over the scandal as well. And if Spanier goes, I can almost guarantee that his successor will clean house... odds are also pretty good that even if he isn't, the new Athletic Director (and there almost certainly will be a new AD) will clean house. I strongly suspect that Paterno will not be on the sidelines next year. If not officially because of the scandal, then officially because of his health issues... but more likely, the new AD will take the "high road" and proclaim that anyone tainted by the scandal has to go. Including, if not especially, Paterno.
Woody Hayes couldn't survive punching an opposing player. Compared to what Sandusky is alleged to have done, that's peanuts. So I strongly suspect that Paterno will be gone after the bowl game... and it probably won't be a major bowl unless they win the Big 10+2 championship outright, because of the black cloud Sandusky has brought down on the program.
What a way to go.
I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.
I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....
I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.
I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....Joe Paterno is far from perfect. One of his faults is his ego. He should have retired a decade or more ago, but he didn't.
Certain sportswriters and media type refuse to believe his image as almost squeaky-clean actually was. After all, so many others idols have fallen, so why would this one be any different?
So: It turns out that the one-time heir apparant is a sleeze. It's not that hard a leap to presume that Joe's ego wouldn't let him see what was going on... doesn't make it true, mind you, but it's certainly possible. And thus, the association is made, and here's the chance for the holier-than-thou to topple the idol.
I should point out that as more comes out, the angrier I as an alumni get at the University adminsitration. I honestly don't think that Joe knew; and I hope I'm not wrong on that, because that would mean he's a true hypocrite on top of everything else. I do think that the administration conspired to cover this up, to "protect" Joe, Penn State Football, themselves, and Penn State... in that order.
Worked out pretty well, hasn't it?
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 03:56 PM
I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.
I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....
In my memory, I don't remember an interview with JoPa going like this...
Interviewer: Your quarterback threw several interceptions today. What do you plan to do about that?
JoPa: Well, I mentioned several key issues he needed to work on. He didn't seem to comply much, so, what am I to do? I'm just like a coach. I don't really have any authority or anything like that.
JoPa is passionate about football. He is a man who can make things happen. The fact that he knew about this and did nothing is really really sick. Hiding behind an excuse that you are helpless and finding support in allowing child rape is really sick.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 04:03 PM
The fact that he knew about this and did nothing is really really sick. Hiding behind an excuse that you are helpless and finding support in allowing child rape is really sick.
What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.
I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 04:19 PM
Joe Paterno is far from perfect. One of his faults is his ego. He should have retired a decade or more ago, but he didn't.
Certain sportswriters and media type refuse to believe his image as almost squeaky-clean actually was. After all, so many others idols have fallen, so why would this one be any different?
So: It turns out that the one-time heir apparant is a sleeze. It's not that hard a leap to presume that Joe's ego wouldn't let him see what was going on... doesn't make it true, mind you, but it's certainly possible. And thus, the association is made, and here's the chance for the holier-than-thou to topple the idol.
I should point out that as more comes out, the angrier I as an alumni get at the University adminsitration. I honestly don't think that Joe knew; and I hope I'm not wrong on that, because that would mean he's a true hypocrite on top of everything else. I do think that the administration conspired to cover this up, to "protect" Joe, Penn State Football, themselves, and Penn State... in that order.
Worked out pretty well, hasn't it?
I know that you know that I am from Pennsylvania, and knowing that, I am certain you won't believe me when I tell you I don't really know who Joe Paterno is. I've heard his name and recognize it but I thought he was a football player from the 60s or 70s that got a deadly disease and died and they made a movie about him.........
It just seems wrong, it is plain for me to see that the man is in trouble for doing what he was s'posed to do. And they tell me on the news that he has been a wonderful person who is known and loved by many and now he is in trouble.
Anyway, as far as I am concerned the guy did what he was s'posed to do. He told his superior. Turns out, that was all he was required to do, and now the world thinks him a bum. I wouldn't accuse him of anything. It's just proof that life sucks so badly for some people they jump at the chance to point the finger at somebody on somebody else's say so. Instead of jumping to conclusions based on rumor and speculation, I'll wait until I see some kind of proof.....
Leave the old guy alone.
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 04:23 PM
What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.
I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.
I didn't say he declined to testify as a witness in a trial. I said he failed to go to the police when he was told of a crime.
If you have a child come home and they say that they were beaten and they have the people's name who beat them, do you tell the child that it is a pity that you yourself did not stand there and witness the beating because if you had, you could take it to the authorities with it? But as it is, they will have to suck an egg?
But yeah. These are classic talking points for covering up criminal activity.
W3MIV
11-11-2011, 04:31 PM
Paterno failed a fundamental moral obligation. The circumstances of his relationships with the university, his status and the status of the accused all conspire to a strong possibility, if not an outright probability, that his decision was predicated on his personal ambition and not on the welfare of the child, on the law or on justice. It was the wrong decision.
We are all given choices to make in our lives. We make them and then we must live with them. So, too, must Paterno.
NA4BH
11-11-2011, 04:35 PM
Paterno failed a fundamental moral obligation
As did the red headed guy that witnessed the crime. My question is, why is this guy still employed at PSU? He should have called the police, instead he passed it up the line just like Paterno.
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 04:41 PM
As did the red headed guy that witnessed the crime. My question is, why is this guy still employed at PSU? He should have called the police, instead he passed it up the line just like Paterno.
Are you trying to make me feel softer on child rape? It isn't working.
NA4BH
11-11-2011, 04:43 PM
No, I'm just wondering why the "witness" isn't bearing the same wrath as the rest of them.
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 04:54 PM
No, I'm just wondering why the "witness" isn't bearing the same wrath as the rest of them.
In the first place, besides Jerry Sandusky (who should receive wrath), who is receiving wrath? I have had employers come in and tell me I am no longer working there and pack my things and leave. This is what is known as the free enterprise system. Capitalism. Too many socialists believe people like Paterno are "owed" a job. I think that top management should be able to make decisions and let the marketplace decide what the outcome should be. BTW. When they let me go, they went out of business in a few years. The system works.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 05:02 PM
I didn't say he declined to testify as a witness in a trial. I said he failed to go to the police when he was told of a crime.
If you have a child come home and they say that they were beaten and they have the people's name who beat them, do you tell the child that it is a pity that you yourself did not stand there and witness the beating because if you had, you could take it to the authorities with it? But as it is, they will have to suck an egg?
But yeah. These are classic talking points for covering up criminal activity.
Huh? That is not what happened.
This is how I see it. Bob B witnessed OFIC (Old Fart in charge) having his was with Chuck C (a minor). Bob B struggles with what he just witnessed and shared it with EOOFIC (Even Older Old Fart in Charge). EOOFIC did not see it but had knowledge that it happened and he passed it on to his superior OOFE (Oldest Old Fart Ever) to be investigated as the old wise one would see fit.
I live in a town with a large State College (WIU). Before I lived here, I lived in a Town with a very well known and respected College (Monmouth College). My buddy Jeff used to be the head of Security at Monmouth. We once discussed some of the parties that were happening on Campus after several students had been carted off to the hospital for Liquor Poisoning, fighting etc. You know the stupid crap we all did when we were kids. Anyway, I asked Jeff why Monmouth PD doesn't take a party down before the problems occurred. His answer surprised me.
Monmouth PD can not enter College property unless called in by Security. That is the deal that was made. If Monmouth PD chases somebody on Campus they must stop chasing them unless they have permission from Security. Security usually allows them too, but there has been some trouble between them.
WIU is much larger and has it's own police force. Same deal as Monmouth. Macomb PD stays off campus unless invited.
Jeff says the college feels college kids shouldn't get into trouble for the things that they do like underage drinking, and that is why they police themselves.
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 05:11 PM
Huh? That is not what happened.
This is how I see it. Bob B witnessed OFIC (Old Fart in charge) having his was with Chuck C (a minor). Bob B struggles with what he just witnessed and shared it with EOOFIC (Even Older Old Fart in Charge). EOOFIC did not see it but had knowledge that it happened and he passed it on to his superior OOFE (Oldest Old Fart Ever) to be investigated as the old wise one would see fit.
I live in a town with a large State College (WIU). Before I lived here, I lived in a Town with a very well known and respected College (Monmouth College). My buddy Jeff used to be the head of Security at Monmouth. We once discussed some of the parties that were happening on Campus after several students had been carted off to the hospital for Liquor Poisoning, fighting etc. You know the stupid crap we all did when we were kids. Anyway, I asked Jeff why Monmouth PD doesn't take a party down before the problems occurred. His answer surprised me.
Monmouth PD can not enter College property unless called in by Security. That is the deal that was made. If Monmouth PD chases somebody on Campus they must stop chasing them unless they have permission from Security. Security usually allows them too, but there has been some trouble between them.
WIU is much larger and has it's own police force. Same deal as Monmouth. Macomb PD stays off campus unless invited.
Jeff says the college feels college kids shouldn't get into trouble for the things that they do like underage drinking, and that is why they police themselves.
As I said. There are many who want to cover up child rape. It is a pity. Paterno had fervor in making corrections in his starting lineup to assure an excellent performance. He didn't whine that there is a difference between campus police and city police when they lost a game. It has no meaning. Why anyone would say that child rape is okay because the city police may have no authority on campus is beyond my comprehension. But yet those talking points still exist. Some excuse to excuse child rape.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 05:20 PM
As I said. There are many who want to cover up child rape. It is a pity. Paterno had fervor in making corrections in his starting lineup to assure an excellent performance. He didn't whine that there is a difference between campus police and city police when they lost a game. It has no meaning. Why anyone would say that child rape is okay because the city police may have no authority on campus is beyond my comprehension. But yet those talking points still exist. Some excuse to excuse child rape.
Nobody is saying it is OK to cover anything up. I'm saying there is no proof he did anything wrong. Pull your head out of your ass and admit you know nothing of what happened beyond who is rumored (none of us do) and you've convicted the guy already. You don't know enough about what is going on at Penn State to have an opinion on the subject. You just make shit up as ya go to suit your need. But apparently that is ok because most of the rest of the country would string ole Joe up as well. Hang 'em High! That mfer must know something!
My point is, wait until you know what is going on. Wait for the proof before ya hang the old fart. I am not excusing anything.
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 05:31 PM
Nobody is saying it is OK to cover anything up. I'm saying there is no proof he did anything wrong. Pull your head out of your ass and admit you know nothing of what happened beyond who is rumored (none of us do) and you've convicted the guy already. You don't know enough about what is going on at Penn State to have an opinion on the subject. You just make shit up as ya go to suit your need. But apparently that is ok because most of the rest of the country would string ole Joe up as well. Hang 'em High! That mfer must know something!
My point is, wait until you know what is going on. Wait for the proof before ya hang the old fart. I am not excusing anything.
So you are saying that the grand jury testimony is crap? Under what authority can you make that statement?
http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html
What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it? Do you like the idea that Paterno testified that he knew about these crimes in 2002 and did not tell the police? Or am I to believe Paterno's testimony? Did Paterno lie to the grand jury and he really knew nothing at all about the crimes until it came out in the newspaper? Is that what happened? Please. Enlighten me.
W3MIV
11-11-2011, 05:33 PM
My point is, wait until you know what is going on. Wait for the proof before ya hang the old fart. I am not excusing anything.
I don't see anyone around here "hanging" the old fart. He has been removed from his job, as he should have been. So far as I know, he is not being held as an accessory to the molestation. The Board made the decision to remove him based on the well known rationale that the quicker they are rid of the big names involved the faster it will be off the front pages. Despite that, I believe the decision was a sound one.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 06:02 PM
So you are saying that the grand jury testimony is crap? Under what authority can you make that statement?
http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html
What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it? Do you like the idea that Paterno testified that he knew about these crimes in 2002 and did not tell the police? Or am I to believe Paterno's testimony? Did Paterno lie to the grand jury and he really knew nothing at all about the crimes until it came out in the newspaper? Is that what happened? Please. Enlighten me.
Damn, that was a long read and allot of kids. It didn't say anything about Joe being a bad guy, or trying to cover anything up.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 06:10 PM
I don't see anyone around here "hanging" the old fart. He has been removed from his job, as he should have been. So far as I know, he is not being held as an accessory to the molestation. The Board made the decision to remove him based on the well known rationale that the quicker they are rid of the big names involved the faster it will be off the front pages. Despite that, I believe the decision was a sound one.
No, they didn't hang him. They did worse than that, they desecrated his good name. That's a huge deal for many people. Right or wrong, nobody knows for sure. The media jumped on this quick and murdered this man's good name, and the sheeple of America are quick to follow..... He was going to retire anyway. His job is of little importance.
Anyway, I going to go cook something to eat. I'm done with this one hopefully
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 06:10 PM
Damn, that was a long read and allot of kids. It didn't say anything about Joe being a bad guy, or trying to cover anything up.
I doubt there is anyone who approves of child rape would see any issues with Paterno's actions or inactions.
KA9MOT
11-11-2011, 06:39 PM
I doubt there is anyone who approves of child rape would see any issues with Paterno's actions or inactions.
Where do you come up with this approval of Child Rape? Nobody approves of that. Are you suggesting that anybody who disagrees with you on this matter approves of child rape? How does one come to that conclusion? That is ASININE !!!
W3MIV
11-11-2011, 06:58 PM
No, they didn't hang him. They did worse than that, they desecrated his good name.
You've got it exactly backasswards. He desecrated his own name. He had a range of options and he chose one of the worst. Nobody forced him to that decision; it was his alone.
Way I see it, Penn State decided to fire JoePa instead of letting him coach his last few games just to get out of his "golden parachute" pension. I'm surprised that there was no mention of crying by JoePa and/or his attorney(s) to a Federal or Pennsylvania District judge for a reinstatement order, since discharging an employee when his/her retirement plans are announced can be taken as a fishy maneuver. But, I bet there will be some legal action originating from Paterno against PennState for breach of contract....
No, they didn't hang him. They did worse than that, they desecrated his good name. That's a huge deal for many people. Right or wrong, nobody knows for sure. The media jumped on this quick and murdered this man's good name, and the sheeple of America are quick to follow..... He was going to retire anyway. His job is of little importance.
Toss the bullshit flag on that one.
Paterno's job was of little importance? What's with all the hero worship then? Get a clue, station. Paterno, Curley, Schultz and the rest of them did this to themselves. Blaming "the media" for their shameless inaction only minimizes the heinous crimes committed by Sandusky.
It is in the nature of childhood sexual abuse for victims, perpetrators, and witnesses to want to disassociate themselves from the act. That's why the law requires grown-ups to act like grown-ups. That's why Tim Curley, the Penn State athletic director, took a leave of absence and Gary Schultz, vice president for finance and business, retired last week after being charged with perjury and failure to report charges of serial abuse in athletic facilities on the campus of a publicly financed institution of higher learning.
That's why it was so patently offensive when Joe Paterno, college football's Mr. Clean, took refuge early this week in having fulfilled his legal obligation by informing his superiors. And more offensive, days later, as the full horror of the story emerged, when he belatedly declared his intention to leave at the end of the season on his terms, dignity intact.
That's why less than 12 hours after he announced his resignation, saying that he was "absolutely devastated" by "one of the great sorrows of my life," the board of trustees acted in loco parentis, firing the patron saint of Happy Valley — who was, after all, just a football coach — and the university president with misplaced loyalties effective immediately. The grown-ups finally decided to act like grown-ups.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7219925/grown-ups-act-grown-ups
X-Rated
11-11-2011, 09:39 PM
Hi Dave. How's life in the Sac?
I mean look at the timeline set up in the grand jury depositions. Paterno knew about the child rapist in 2002 and there was at least one rape after that. No one has to judge. The facts are right there if you open your mind and comprehend what has happened and what could have been averted. But Paterno dropped the ball. Yeah. He fumbled.
W3MIV
11-12-2011, 03:33 PM
Probably not the last word from Jon Stewart:
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/729888/jon_stewart%27s_must-see_%22special_comment%22_on_penn_state_scandal/#paragraph2
As did the red headed guy that witnessed the crime. My question is, why is this guy still employed at PSU? He should have called the police, instead he passed it up the line just like Paterno.McQueary is now on administrative leave while they investigate.
Ironically, if they fire him over this, specifically over this, he may have a strong case against them under state and federal whistle-blower laws.
However, as I said before, I expect a new head coach from outside will be hired, and the entire existing staff will be terminated. Sinde he won't be singled out, he might not have a case.
As I said. There are many who want to cover up child rape. It is a pity. Paterno had fervor in making corrections in his starting lineup to assure an excellent performance. He didn't whine that there is a difference between campus police and city police when they lost a game. It has no meaning. Why anyone would say that child rape is okay because the city police may have no authority on campus is beyond my comprehension. But yet those talking points still exist. Some excuse to excuse child rape.I don't believe ANYONE wants to cover up child rape. And Sandusky, the alleged rapist & molester, is in very deep doo-do.
The question with Paterno is & remains, what did he know, and when did he know it?
He did what was legally required. And not a scota more. It has not yet been established if he had any direct knowledge of the cover-up, or any hand in it. He may have been told by the administration that the investigation came up bupkus... and if it had been me, I wouldn't have settled for that. Regardless... his inaction and his apparant moral lapse have cost him his job and his reputation.
And once again, conveniently overlooked in most of the media reports is that the incident WAS reported to the DA at the time, who did his own investigation and did not file charges against Sandusky. Why he didn't, I don't know, and the man isn't around to ask. Regardless... if the DA did his job correctly, which implies interviewing Paterno & McQueary, and decided no charges were to be filed... then either he was part of the cover-up, which is possible; or the cover-up fooled him completely; or what?
The bitter irony is that Sandusky, the actual alleged pervert, seems almost the forgotten man in the zest to villify Paterno & Penn State and knock thm off their pedestals by the media pundits. He is under indictment, but he is still on the street.
Also, conveniently overlooked... did you know that Sandusky's daughter-in-law got a restraining order against him? He is not currently allowed to be with his grandchildren without other adult supervision present. Not exactly a vote of confidence from the family... a precaution, or is there more to it? But why investigate that, it's time to heap more dirt on JoePa...
Way I see it, Penn State decided to fire JoePa instead of letting him coach his last few games just to get out of his "golden parachute" pension. I'm surprised that there was no mention of crying by JoePa and/or his attorney(s) to a Federal or Pennsylvania District judge for a reinstatement order, since discharging an employee when his/her retirement plans are announced can be taken as a fishy maneuver. But, I bet there will be some legal action originating from Paterno against PennState for breach of contract....Financially, suffice to say you don't have to worry about Paterno.
I don't think they fired him to stiff him of his pension. I'd be surprised if his contract didn't contain a clause to cover that, in any case. Spanier got fired as PSU President as well, but they still have to pay him off (and he remains a tenured member of the faculty, as was Paterno).
It wasn't the money. It was bowing to pressure from the media to do it NOW. (Although I think they would have had to do it anyway, but the timing stinks). And Paterno didn't help himself by announcing his retirement and patronizing the board in the process, I think his hubris cost himself what few friends he had left on the board in the manner in which he did so; it was the wrong time to tell the board what to do.
I think JoePa's real crime was a swelled ego and misplaced priorities, which made it easy for him to overlook what Sandusky was allegedly doing. And since Sandusky was no longer on his staff, I suspect JoePa didn't pay much attention to what he was doing.
JoePa's ego cost him everything. And I suspect that he will be in a grave within 6 months from the pressure, and from realizing what he let happen because of that ego.
W2NAP
11-13-2011, 06:02 AM
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf&embedded=true
grand jury testimony
X-Rated
11-13-2011, 08:07 AM
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf&embedded=true
grand jury testimony
Doesn't do any good. People either won't read it, it doesn't make sense to them or they refuse to believe what it says.
After a quick read of the grand jury report, it seems to me that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Penn State VP Gary Schultz are far more culpable in this matter than Joe Paterno.
W3MIV
11-13-2011, 03:24 PM
After a quick read of the grand jury report, it seems to me that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Penn State VP Gary Schultz are far more culpable in this matter than Joe Paterno.
RHIP, but it also carries responsibilities. I tend to believe that they all were colluding to keep the matter under wraps rather than risk the explosion they knew would happen if it managed to get in the wild. Asses all, they would have been far, far better off to have blown the foul whistle early than they are now.
I have not a shred of sympathy for any of them, least of all for Paterno who had the most to risk and the least to gain from silence. Sometimes it takes bigger balls to be honest; he has been slung in the scales and found wanting.
X-Rated
11-13-2011, 03:45 PM
After a quick read of the grand jury report, it seems to me that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Penn State VP Gary Schultz are far more culpable in this matter than Joe Paterno.
Who said they weren't?
Who said they weren't?
No one. I was just expressing my opinion on the matter and implying that if Paterno got fired, the two guys I mentioned should get far worse.
X-Rated
11-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Dunno if anyone remembers SMU football back in the 80's. They generated a slush fund to pay their players and the NCAA gave them the death penalty.
Now, I ask, if the SMU ponies got the death penalty for essentially 2 years over a slush fund, what will happen to PSU? Who will be the head coach of a team that cannot compete? If you are a decision maker, what do you do? I am getting 355 hits when I Google-News "Penn State death penalty". Do any of these others have a future? No. It is inevitable.
W3MIV
11-13-2011, 06:59 PM
A lot of water has passed under the Ethics Bridge since the 1980s.
Dunno if anyone remembers SMU football back in the 80's. They generated a slush fund to pay their players and the NCAA gave them the death penalty.
Now, I ask, if the SMU ponies got the death penalty for essentially 2 years over a slush fund, what will happen to PSU? Who will be the head coach of a team that cannot compete? If you are a decision maker, what do you do? I am getting 355 hits when I Google-News "Penn State death penalty". Do any of these others have a future? No. It is inevitable.The big difference, though, is that what SMU did was violations of NCAA regulations. Nothing that happened (allegedly or otherwise) at Penn State was in violation of NCAA regulations. Therefore, the NCAA can not impose the so-called "death penalty."
Besides, IIRC, the "death penalty" involved not just NCAA rules violations, but repeated ones... it would not be imposed on "first offenders."
...
On a related note, I've brought up more than once the infamous phrase (thanks to Richard Nixon and the Plumbers... sounds like a bad punk rock band, not the perpetrators of the Watergate break-in...) "what did he know, and when did he know it?" I just came across the following article: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html which answers some of these questions.
Now I can see why Curley & Schultz got themselves indicted for perjury. Sounds like the cover-up may go back as far as 1995. I also now see why Sandusky's daughter-in-law got an injunction... there are some serious concerns about what happened with the boy he eventually adopted, and what happened while Sandusky was fostering him.
I've also mentioned, more than a few times, about then-DA Gricar's decison in 1998 not to prosecute. The article brings this incident up... and indicates that charges weren't brought due to lack of sufficent evidence to sustain a conviction. That's a far cry from the initial implication that there was nothing to find.
This may explain why Sandusky suddenly retired without prior public warning. You'd think that the administration would have been kept abreast of the details... either they were kept in the dark by the DA's office (possible under privacy statutes, but somehow I doubt it), or they chose to cover it up. Personally, I suspect a cover-up. Which means that Curley & Schultz deserve the cells next to Sandusky, be it in jail, or in Hell.
And it is still unclear as to what McQueary told Paterno, and what Paterno knew and when he knew it.
Here's another story: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/special_report_why_the_jerry_s.html
Looks like there's plenty of blame to go around.
Some things never change... there's a reason why the early silent comedy police buffoons were known as the Keystone Kops...
W3MIV
11-14-2011, 10:39 AM
All of this is counting angels on the head of a pin. There is no injustice that was committed by anyone other than themselves. Out.
suddenseer
11-14-2011, 11:50 AM
Dunno if anyone remembers SMU football back in the 80's. They generated a slush fund to pay their players and the NCAA gave them the death penalty.
Now, I ask, if the SMU ponies got the death penalty for essentially 2 years over a slush fund, what will happen to PSU? Who will be the head coach of a team that cannot compete? If you are a decision maker, what do you do? I am getting 355 hits when I Google-News "Penn State death penalty". Do any of these others have a future? No. It is inevitable.There is always the NFL.
X-Rated
11-14-2011, 10:57 PM
The big difference, though, is that what SMU did was violations of NCAA regulations. Nothing that happened (allegedly or otherwise) at Penn State was in violation of NCAA regulations. Therefore, the NCAA can not impose the so-called "death penalty."
Besides, IIRC, the "death penalty" involved not just NCAA rules violations, but repeated ones... it would not be imposed on "first offenders."
...
Reminds me of some guy I argued with a while back who had received a meter in the mail with a slightly crunched container box. He was so incensed that his meter box had been crunched even though there was no initial indication that the meter box wasn't supposed to be pristine that I would think that guy would be totally outraged of a pre-teen sex coverup if a lousy meter box slightly damaged lit his ass on fire. Maybe not.
Reminds me of some guy I argued with a while back who had received a meter in the mail with a slightly crunched container box. He was so incensed that his meter box had been crunched even though there was no initial indication that the meter box wasn't supposed to be pristine that I would think that guy would be totally outraged of a pre-teen sex coverup if a lousy meter box slightly damaged lit his ass on fire. Maybe not.Well, that came out of left field. Or considering the sport in question, off the opposite end zone. That's completely irrelevant to this issue in any case.
I am deliberately trying to keep my temper under control on this issue. As an alumni of the institution, frankly, I am extremely torqued off and very disappointed that the administration reacted like typical bureaucrats to cover it up and cover their own... assets. The AD, the head of Security, the University President all appear to have had a hand in said cover-up and butt-covering, and they all deserve hard time in jail... not just for the cover-up itself, but over what they covered up and what they appear to have enabled that creep to do.
Two of those three are indicted. I want to see all three arrested, tried, and if convicted... get what they deserve. Along with anyone else who can be proven in a court of law to have participated in this cover-up.
But I am trying to spare you from seeing how much I really want to vent on it.
KC2UGV
11-15-2011, 12:58 PM
What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.
I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.
I even got a report of something that COULD be child molestation; I would call the police.
K7SGJ
11-15-2011, 01:04 PM
One must be certain of the facts before making accusations of that nature. Even unfounded reports can destroy a persons life. Once done, it is near impossible to undo.
KC2UGV
11-15-2011, 03:16 PM
One must be certain of the facts before making accusations of that nature. Even unfounded reports can destroy a persons life. Once done, it is near impossible to undo.
Nothing uncertain about:
"Hey coach, I just saw this guy fucking a 10 year old in the ass in the shower rooms!"
K7SGJ
11-15-2011, 03:53 PM
And if he has it in (so to speak) for the guy, and it didn't happen?
There's an interesting blurb on the local evening news, promoting tonight's CBS Evening News report.
Allegedly, McQueary has broken his silence. He has allegedly said in emails that he not only witnessed the assault, but he did stop it.
Furthermore... he allegedly has said that he DID report it to the police. And did so BEFORE reporting it to JoePa.
Both are contrary to everyone's assumptions.
Now... could it be possible that Paterno didn't follow up with the police because... he had been told that they had already been notified?
Again, all allegations... and he should have followed up. But it at least explains, possibly, why he didn't file a report, because the report had already been filed? (And no, I don't know if the alleged report was allegedly filed with University, Borough, or State cops... or some combination thereof... nor do I know why, it there had been said alleged report, why the cops didn't follow up on it. One headache at a time)
There's an interesting blurb on the local evening news, promoting tonight's CBS Evening News report.
Allegedly, McQueary has broken his silence. He has allegedly said in emails that he not only witnessed the assault, but he did stop it.
Furthermore... he allegedly has said that he DID report it to the police. And did so BEFORE reporting it to JoePa.
Both are contrary to everyone's assumptions.
Now... could it be possible that Paterno didn't follow up with the police because... he had been told that they had already been notified?
Again, all allegations... and he should have followed up. But it at least explains, possibly, why he didn't file a report, because the report had already been filed? (And no, I don't know if the alleged report was allegedly filed with University, Borough, or State cops... or some combination thereof... nor do I know why, it there had been said alleged report, why the cops didn't follow up on it. One headache at a time)
A couple of things here, Ron.
1. I have no ax to grind with Penn State or Paterno. They have always a team to be for when they played Southern teams or Notre Dame or Michigan or Ohio State and against when they played Western teams. My comments are in no way a gotcha on Penn State.
2. Even if McQueary told Paterno the seriousness of what really happened it makes Paterno a liar if true. It even more so gives the appearance of someone clasping their hands over the ears and eyes and humming at the top of his lungs hoping "it" would all go away. Why? For the sake of the program. For HIS legacy. It shows a man, and the people surrounding him, that don't give one good god damn about whether children, CHILDREN were being molested . It's about the program, not people.
3. Why didn't Paterno confront Sandusky his friend and Defense Coordinator for 22 YEARS? You know why? To protect the brand. I normally think Maureen Dowd is a harpy, but she nailed this one with that quote. FUCK all those arguments about due process, legality etc. This isn't one kid, or one isolated incident. It it were, I might buy those arguments. There's too much of a paper trail on Sandusky for anyone to "protect the brand" by pulling these arguments out of the weeds.
4. I'm going to go there, I swear to your favorite deity, I'd say the same about my beloved University of California, Berkeley football program if it was in the same mess. The NCAA should blow up the program with the death penalty for lack of institutional control, or better yet, do what Tulane did to basketball after the Hot Rod Williams scandal of the 80's, let the university blow up the sport, which Tulane did for 2 years. Everyone with a fingerprint on this era must go. I'm sure Tom Bradley is great guy, but he has to go along with everyone associated with the program.
5. It's not like this is Penn State's first time in negative light either. Woman's Basketball coach Rene Portland and her anti-lesbian stuff was pretty disgusting, but she got away with it for years. If she was a little better liar after they passed the non-discrimination decree, she'd still be there too. People continually looked the other way with Portland, just like they are doing now with Paterno because she was successful. Well, and who cares about gay people anyway...
I wish this all never happened. Unfortunately, it did, and instead of praying at the football alter like the Penn State and Nebraska players did before the game Saturday, something real an meaningful and EFFECTIVE has to be done to ensure this never happens again.
WØTKX
11-15-2011, 11:33 PM
Just like ignoring it in churches, teachers, parents.
It's abuse by a person in a position of power and trust, which is then swept under the carpet.
W3MIV
11-16-2011, 06:43 AM
I wish this all never happened. Unfortunately, it did, and instead of praying at the football alter like the Penn State and Nebraska players did before the game Saturday, something real an meaningful and EFFECTIVE has to be done to ensure this never happens again.
The entire thrust of this thread and its implicit excuses is emblematic of the problems faced in that regard. We have seen student rioting in the streets over the firing -- an incredible misjudgment on the part of juveniles that was probably instigated by older, wiser and more cynical motives -- a display of the extent to which this sort of gladiator folly has burrowed into the core of what is supposed to be education, learning. College athletics was once mere sport; it has become the principal fundraising tool of the big business weed that has grown up around and choked out every instance of meaningful education.
These people -- Paterno included: Indeed, Paterno especially -- have been willing tools of a bent system that has become an end unto itself. No one of them deserves the least sympathy. Every one of them deserves to stand stripped of his vanity in the plain and harsh light of public castigation. That this will not happen is proved in this thread by the continued regurgitation of excuses and apologies.
KC2UGV
11-16-2011, 09:43 AM
And if he has it in (so to speak) for the guy, and it didn't happen?
Leave that for the police to figure out. He witnessed a rape. He did nothing.
There's an interesting blurb on the local evening news, promoting tonight's CBS Evening News report.
Allegedly, McQueary has broken his silence. He has allegedly said in emails that he not only witnessed the assault, but he did stop it.
Furthermore... he allegedly has said that he DID report it to the police. And did so BEFORE reporting it to JoePa.
Both are contrary to everyone's assumptions.
Not contrary to everyone's "assumptions", but contrary to his grand jury testimony...
Now... could it be possible that Paterno didn't follow up with the police because... he had been told that they had already been notified?
It's possible. But, any rational person, who knew something like this would bit his organization in the ass, should it ever boil over; would have made damned sure it was taken care off. 9 calls to the police about the same issue is not a worse thing than 1 call.
Again, all allegations... and he should have followed up. But it at least explains, possibly, why he didn't file a report, because the report had already been filed? (And no, I don't know if the alleged report was allegedly filed with University, Borough, or State cops... or some combination thereof... nor do I know why, it there had been said alleged report, why the cops didn't follow up on it. One headache at a time)
But, this would be contrary to McQueary's testimony to the grand jury.
X-Rated
11-16-2011, 09:46 AM
The entire thrust of this thread and its implicit excuses is emblematic of the problems faced in that regard. We have seen student rioting in the streets over the firing -- an incredible misjudgment on the part of juveniles that was probably instigated by older, wiser and more cynical motives -- a display of the extent to which this sort of gladiator folly has burrowed into the core of what is supposed to be education, learning. College athletics was once mere sport; it has become the principal fundraising tool of the big business weed that has grown up around and choked out every instance of meaningful education.
These people -- Paterno included: Indeed, Paterno especially -- have been willing tools of a bent system that has become an end unto itself. No one of them deserves the least sympathy. Every one of them deserves to stand stripped of his vanity in the plain and harsh light of public castigation. That this will not happen is proved in this thread by the continued regurgitation of excuses and apologies.
I am still waiting for, "They shouldn't fire Paterno because the sun was in my eyes and the dog ate my homework. And Besides, the check is in the mail."
Dave hit the nail on the head. And besides that, most of us were graduated in the same country that this happened in. This is a stain on our country that we should be aware of and assure that this does not happen again, we should look for issues rather than excuses.
This attitude, "Well we need to wait for the facts. When I see the act with my own eyes, I will tend to believe a little more than what I do now," is old in this forum. These are code words for ambivalence and acceptance after the fact that we have grand jury testimony. These testimonies are actionable.
I did hear the report on the radio this morning that McQueary said that he did make a report to the police. I heard no excuse as to why this factoid was not included in the grand jury testimony.
Been gone to Detroit for a few days. Sorry to miss out on all of this..
< snip >
Not contrary to everyone's "assumptions", but contrary to his grand jury testimony...
< snip >I have been told (I do not know if this is true or not), and it has been reported in the local media, that the grand jury transcripts included a summary of the testimony, NOT a verbatim word-for-word transcription.
McQueary has also been quoted as saying that he can not say much more publicly right now because this is still an ongoing investigation.
So... either people have misunderstood that what was released by the grand jury was not everything McQueary actually said... or he's now lying to cover his, er, anatomy. I lack sufficient data to determine which.
W3MIV
11-16-2011, 03:09 PM
Been gone to Detroit for a few days. Sorry to miss out on all of this..
Detroit, huh? Keep a close check on six. We want you back.
KC2UGV
11-16-2011, 03:19 PM
I have been told (I do not know if this is true or not), and it has been reported in the local media, that the grand jury transcripts included a summary of the testimony, NOT a verbatim word-for-word transcription.
McQueary has also been quoted as saying that he can not say much more publicly right now because this is still an ongoing investigation.
So... either people have misunderstood that what was released by the grand jury was not everything McQueary actually said... or he's now lying to cover his, er, anatomy. I lack sufficient data to determine which.
Grand Jury reports tend to be rather accurate, in relating the testimony:
On March 1, 2002, a Penn State graduate assistant ("graduate assistant") who was then 28 years old, entered the locker room at the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus on a Friday night before the beginning of Spring Break. The graduate assistant, who was familiar with Sandusky, was going to put some newly purchased sneakers in his locker and get some recruiting tapes to watch. It was about 9:30 p.m. As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught. The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno ("Paterno"), head football coach of Pemi State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen. Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning.
Nothing about calling the police. Sandusky called his dad (Not the police). His dad told him to tell Joe Paterno (Not the police). Sandusky then, the next morning, informed Joe Paterno (Not the police).
Three chances to tell the police, and not a damned thing done. In his testimony, he "immediately left", not "stopped the rape, and then left". He locked eyes with the victim, and "immediately left"; not "stopping the rape".
Joe Paterno then told the Finance Director (Not the police).
Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy. Approximately one and a half weeks later, the graduate assistant was called to a meeting with Penn State Athletic Director Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz ("Schultz"). The graduate assistant reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers. Curley and Schultz assured the graduate assistant that they would look into it and determine what further action they would take. Paterno was not present for this meeting. The graduate assistant heard back from Curley a couple of weeks later. He was told that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken away and that the incident had been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant was never questioned by University Police and no other entity conducted an investigation until he testified in Grand Jury in December, 2010. The Grand
Jury finds the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible.
Seems odd, that he told the police, but they never asked him any questions while he was telling them, wouldn't you say?
X-Rated
11-16-2011, 03:35 PM
... Sandusky called his dad (Not the police). His dad told him to tell Joe Paterno (Not the police). Sandusky then, the next morning, informed Joe Paterno (Not the police).
...
McQueary, not Sandusky.
KC2UGV
11-16-2011, 03:37 PM
McQueary, not Sandusky.
Shit. Thank you.
According to the evening news:
McQueary says (in emails to friends) that he reported the incident to "the police." Not specified exactly which department.
Penn State Police & State College Police now say... well, they don't say that he did or didn't talk to someone. They both said that there is no record of him making a report. From the choice of wording, there's a nasty implication there...
Either the kid lied to the Grand Jury...
Or he lied to his friends...
Or he told the truth, and as part of the cover-up, the records pertaining to the interview are... intercepted and missing.
Also, FWIW, former Steeler Franco Harris, who has spoken out against the manor in which Paterno was fired, has been fired from his new job as a spokesman for a local casino, and is being asked by the city to step down from a charity board he serves on. There is a very nasty implication here, that if anyone dares to differ from the Politically Correct party line...
and I don't agree with Franco's position, but he has the right to say it.
Oh, and also on the news, Sandusky's lawyer is telling the media that they're only hearing/reporting one side, and just wait until you hear his defense! And the media's reaction is... how dare he mount a defense, he should just admit to it all and save everyone the trouble of a trial. So much for judicial process.
According to the evening news:
McQueary says (in emails to friends) that he reported the incident to "the police." Not specified exactly which department.
Penn State Police & State College Police now say... well, they don't say that he did or didn't talk to someone. They both said that there is no record of him making a report. From the choice of wording, there's a nasty implication there...
Either the kid lied to the Grand Jury...
Or he lied to his friends...
Or he told the truth, and as part of the cover-up, the records pertaining to the interview are... intercepted and missing.
Also, FWIW, former Steeler Franco Harris, who has spoken out against the manor in which Paterno was fired, has been fired from his new job as a spokesman for a local casino, and is being asked by the city to step down from a charity board he serves on. There is a very nasty implication here, that if anyone dares to differ from the Politically Correct party line...
and I don't agree with Franco's position, but he has the right to say it.
Oh, and also on the news, Sandusky's lawyer is telling the media that they're only hearing/reporting one side, and just wait until you hear his defense! And the media's reaction is... how dare he mount a defense, he should just admit to it all and save everyone the trouble of a trial. So much for judicial process.
Politically Correct? PUHLeeeze!
Did you watch the Sandusky interview with Costas? From The Daily Show:
But the host reserved his harshest words for Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, who insisted that, yes, he would allow his own children to be alone in the presence of his client. Stewart suggested that Amendola, who once fathered a child with one of his teenage clients, might not be the best person to answer this kind of question. "What kind of creepy guy club do you both belong to?" he wondered. "If you're accused of sex with minors, maybe your criteria for finding a defense lawyer shouldn't be 'also has issues with sexual boundaries.'"
I can't accept the defense of all those involved with this mess as being "reasonable". Ron, YOU are protecting the brand with the "politically correct" nonsense. This whole thing is slimy and disgusting, yet people are willing to overlook ABUSES AGAINST CHILDREN to protect some fucking football program and the reputation of some goddamned COACH!
Again, I say. Fire them all. DP the football program. Start over in a few years. The great state of Pennsylvania is much better than acting like some over testosteroned Texas backwater sewer protecting the local team.
W3MIV
11-17-2011, 07:08 AM
This whole thing is slimy and disgusting, yet people are willing to overlook ABUSES AGAINST CHILDREN to protect some fucking football program and the reputation of some goddamned COACH!
That is the bottom line, folks. Read it and weep. Weep not over what it expresses about higher education in the US; weep over what it expresses about the moral state of the entire nation.
KC2UGV
11-17-2011, 09:27 AM
According to the evening news:
McQueary says (in emails to friends) that he reported the incident to "the police." Not specified exactly which department.
Penn State Police & State College Police now say... well, they don't say that he did or didn't talk to someone. They both said that there is no record of him making a report. From the choice of wording, there's a nasty implication there...
Either the kid lied to the Grand Jury...
Or he lied to his friends...
Or he told the truth, and as part of the cover-up, the records pertaining to the interview are... intercepted and missing.
Also, FWIW, former Steeler Franco Harris, who has spoken out against the manor in which Paterno was fired, has been fired from his new job as a spokesman for a local casino, and is being asked by the city to step down from a charity board he serves on. There is a very nasty implication here, that if anyone dares to differ from the Politically Correct party line...
and I don't agree with Franco's position, but he has the right to say it.
Oh, and also on the news, Sandusky's lawyer is telling the media that they're only hearing/reporting one side, and just wait until you hear his defense! And the media's reaction is... how dare he mount a defense, he should just admit to it all and save everyone the trouble of a trial. So much for judicial process.
And, the police state they've never met with him, prior to the Grand Jury.
Politically correct my ass! McQueary witnessed a rape. He did nothing. Paterno knew about it. He did nothing. That entire sporting complex needs to get completely wiped out, and new people brought in; and everyone needs to be charged with failing to report a sexual assault of a child.
Politically Correct? PUHLeeeze!
Did you watch the Sandusky interview with Costas? < snip > No, I didn't. I can't even stand to look at him on the news.
Besides, did you really expect he would fall on his knees before Costas on a nationally telecast NBC news show and Come To Jesus? (And if he had, don't you think that that would have been Breaking News?)
< snip >
I can't accept the defense of all those involved with this mess as being "reasonable". Ron, YOU are protecting the brand with the "politically correct" nonsense. This whole thing is slimy and disgusting, yet people are willing to overlook ABUSES AGAINST CHILDREN to protect some fucking football program and the reputation of some goddamned COACH!
Again, I say. Fire them all. DP the football program. Start over in a few years. The great state of Pennsylvania is much better than acting like some over testosteroned Texas backwater sewer protecting the local team.The head coach, the AD, the head of Campus Security, and the University President have all been fired. Odds are more than fairly good that a new coach will be brought in from outside, and no doubt his first order of business will be to clean house and dismiss the rest of the coaching staff, regardless of how much or how little (if any) involvement they had with this mess... guilt by association, but also a not unlikely event whenever there is a change in the head coach.
And I have stated more than once that I am NOT overlooking abuse of children. On the contrary. What I am driving at is a different issue... people being convicted in the media without benefit of a hearing, let alone an actual trial.
Personally, McQueary's leaked email smells of self-serving BS. It doesn't make sense that this didn't come up before with the grand jury testimony. That said, it's all speculation. Not fact.
Do not misunderstand me. I am not, have not, and will not condone child abuse. Nor will I defend someone who knowingly permits said abuse to occur or to continue. But I also strongly despise, in principle, someone being hung out to dry -- or just plain hanged period -- by a media-fueled lynch mob (a media that's after high ratings so that it can sell advertising at high prices). That's not justice, that's anarchy.
We can speculate all we want on what someone SHOULD have known, or what someone HAD TO have known, and what they SHOULD have done. Said speculation is not fact. Why don't we deal in facts?
Oh, and I think you both missed the point of the "Politically Correct party line" comment.
It is not currently Politcally Correct to say anything in support of Paterno. Franco Harris did. And it's cost him a job and at least one other position.
And I do NOT agree with Franco on this... which I said. But he has the right to say it, even if he is wrong.
W4GPL
11-17-2011, 11:07 AM
FWIW, I think this is the most understated thread title ever.. "mess" doesn't even begin to cover it.
KC2UGV
11-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Oh, and I think you both missed the point of the "Politically Correct party line" comment.
It is not currently Politcally Correct to say anything in support of Paterno. Franco Harris did. And it's cost him a job and at least one other position.
It's not that it's not "politically correct"; it's the fact that speaking in support of a disgusting fuck like Paterno, who knew about child rape, and did nothing; in and of itself is fucking digusting.
And I do NOT agree with Franco on this... which I said. But he has the right to say it, even if he is wrong.
And, his employers have a right to terminate his employment for showing support of an accomplice to child rape.
It's not that it's not "politically correct"; it's the fact that speaking in support of a disgusting fuck like Paterno, who knew about child rape, and did nothing; in and of itself is fucking digusting.
And, his employers have a right to terminate his employment for showing support of an accomplice to child rape.And you know for a fact that Paterno knew about this? (Yes, I know about the grand jury transcript... )
Oh, and just to keep this in perspective: Franco objected to the manner in which Paterno's employment was terminated. Not specifically to the reasons why.
KC2UGV
11-17-2011, 12:24 PM
And you know for a fact that Paterno knew about this? (Yes, I know about the grand jury transcript... )
The Grand Jury report states that Paterno acknowledges he was informed. And, he acknowledges that instead of calling the police, he contacted the Finance Directory for the school's sports program.
Oh, and just to keep this in perspective: Franco objected to the manner in which Paterno's employment was terminated. Not specifically to the reasons why.
What was the manner? The board meets, and votes to terminate him? That's usually how it goes. Again, more minimization of the facts at hand here... Franco is upset because he got canned for voicing support for an accomplice to child rape.
W3MIV
11-17-2011, 12:46 PM
FWIW, I think this is the most understated thread title ever.. "mess" doesn't even begin to cover it.
Right. And the worrisome thing is that much of the mess seems to be in the mind of a few posters.
The Grand Jury report states that Paterno acknowledges he was informed. And, he acknowledges that instead of calling the police, he contacted the Finance Directory for the school's sports program.
What was the manner? The board meets, and votes to terminate him? That's usually how it goes. Again, more minimization of the facts at hand here... Franco is upset because he got canned for voicing support for an accomplice to child rape.
Now, this is a perfect example of how distortion works it's way into these discussions.
Paterno didn't contact "the Finance Department." He contacted both his immediate (on paper) boss, the Athletic Director, Tim Curley, and the Sr. VP for Finance & Business, Gary Schultz. Amongst Schultz's responsibilites was the Penn State Police department. (And yes, he should have done a hell of a lot more, and he has paid the price and then some for not doing so, so let's not digress)
Nor did I say that Franco was upset over being canned. He objected to how the PSU board terminated Paterno, which is NOT the same thing. And for the record, Paterno had to go, and it is unfortunate that not only didn't he see that soon enough, but that the manner in which he retired just reinforced to the board that he thought he was still calling the shots.
Franco merely stated, in not so many words, that he thought Paterno deserved a better dismissal. On that point, I strongly disagree.
So you fire the guy for stating... not that he thought the firing was wrong or unjustified (it clearly was neither wrong nor unjustified by then) but because he felt that the board wasn't polite enough when they fired him? That's a firing offense?
KC2UGV
11-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Now, this is a perfect example of how distortion works it's way into these discussions.
Paterno didn't contact "the Finance Department." He contacted both his immediate (on paper) boss, the Athletic Director, Tim Curley, and the Sr. VP for Finance & Business, Gary Schultz. Amongst Schultz's responsibilites was the Penn State Police department. (And yes, he should have done a hell of a lot more, and he has paid the price and then some for not doing so, so let's not digress)
Let's see. Maybe I can put this into simple terms; as to why all of the people involved should be tossed into jail, and left to rot forever:
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm
(http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm)
It's a law that you must report it to the police. Not some finance director, athletic director, et al. The police, or to Child Welfare services. Plain and simple.
By reporting it instead to Sr. VP for Finance, the athletic director, et al; it demonstrates more concern for the athletics program, and the money it brings in; than the welfare of a child being raped.
RAPED.
That's what happened here.
Would you call your dad first if you saw a rape occurring first hand? Or, would you call the police? Would you physically stop it? I know I would.
Nor did I say that Franco was upset over being canned. He objected to how the PSU board terminated Paterno, which is NOT the same thing. And for the record, Paterno had to go, and it is unfortunate that not only didn't he see that soon enough, but that the manner in which he retired just reinforced to the board that he thought he was still calling the shots.
Franco merely stated, in not so many words, that he thought Paterno deserved a better dismissal. On that point, I strongly disagree.
So you fire the guy for stating... not that he thought the firing was wrong or unjustified (it clearly was neither wrong nor unjustified by then) but because he felt that the board wasn't polite enough when they fired him? That's a firing offense?
Any employer has the right to terminate an employee for demonstrating that an accomplice to child RAPE should have been treated better by his terminating employee.
CHILD RAPE. Publicly stating an ACCOMPLICE to a CHILD RAPE should have been fired BETTER? And, you don't think that would be ground for immediate termination?
If you sent an email out to your subordinates, stating in your official capacity, that an ACCOMPLICE to a CHILD RAPE should have been fired gentler; do you think your employer would succinctly terminate your employment?
Lack of institutional control.
Someone finally has a clue.
NCAA president Mark Emmert sent a letter to Penn State president Rod Erickson saying that the governing body for college sports will look at "Penn State's exercise of institutional control over its intercollegiate athletics programs" in the case of Jerry Sandusky, the former defensive coordinator accused of 40 counts of child sex abuse.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7251458/penn-state-nittany-lions-ncaa-launching-investigation-wake-scandal
This whole thing is BS. They all knew, they covered up and NOW we get the Paterno has cancer bullshit. Maybe he does, but who the fuck thinks he's an object of sympathy. This shit makes me want to throw my computer out the window, see yawning cat. FUCK! They play the sympathy game! When there's molested kids out there. I don't give a rat's ass about Joe Paterno.
And you apologists, you WILL pull the sympathy card for Paterno, and vilify anyone who states otherwise, to you I say FUCK YOU.
These people are beyond hope.
DEATH PENALTY the program. That won't happen, but it should. DP Penn State across the board. They fucked up on the women's basketball side and now this Sandusky crap. These people are totally clueless.
Now we have some pervert at Syracuse U. basketball. Same Shit. different state.
FUCK!
W3MIV
11-19-2011, 07:25 AM
It is an error to think that the institutional mindset that ruled these people is any different from that of just about any other "university" in the US. As this sordid tale continues to play out, every other major "athletics program" in the nation is being carefully vetted internally to see if there are any snake hiding in cupboards. Their concern is not children, or ethics, or the value of "sport." Their sole worry is that an "incident" will cost them.
Money is all that matters; all else is incidental.
Money is all that matters; all else is incidental.
Are any of these fucksticks in or running for office? All sounds pretty familiar...
Each and every one of these shitbirds got better than they deserved.
W3MIV
11-19-2011, 10:07 AM
Are any of these fucksticks in or running for office? All sounds pretty familiar...
Each and every one of these shitbirds got better than they deserved.
All birds of a feather, Doug. You wash my back, I'll tickle your...
Well, you get the pixture. I almost we didn't get it quite so clearly.
It is an error to think that the institutional mindset that ruled these people is any different from that of just about any other "university" in the US. As this sordid tale continues to play out, every other major "athletics program" in the nation is being carefully vetted internally to see if there are any snake hiding in cupboards. Their concern is not children, or ethics, or the value of "sport." Their sole worry is that an "incident" will cost them.
Money is all that matters; all else is incidental.
I don't disagree, Albert. Maybe I'm naive, but to do an complete institutional smack down of Penn State might spur others to purge and clean up their acts. I can look the other way on extra phone calls and tattoos, but child molestation is beyond the pale. This is some serious shit, and now we have Syracuse involved in their own scandal which suspiciously looks like a similar deal. "Kid friendly" coach who takes waifs under his wing and molests them. HMMMM. Sounds like Sandusky. Sounds like every other pervert we've seen.
Syracuse did the same thing Penn State did. They swept everything under the rug.
Are any of these fucksticks in or running for office? All sounds pretty familiar...
Each and every one of these shitbirds got better than they deserved.
What?
n6hcm
11-20-2011, 05:14 AM
Now we have some pervert at Syracuse U. basketball. Same Shit. different state.
FUCK!
not entirely ... this was investigated by the syracuse city police at the time (this happened when i was there for my undergrad although i don't remember anything about it from that time) and the police didn't find anything actionable. this was investigated by SU within the last decade (dunno why--must have been another allegation) and again nothing came of it. a second person came forward lately and that's how the issue is again on the front page. there's something fishy going on, but it's not yet clear what. at the time of the initial allegation SU police were fully deputized, so someone did the right thing by bringing it to the city police. i don't think they are still deputized officers now.
i fully expect other programs are going to start showing similar nonsense soon. college athletics have been so untouchable because of the money they attract, and i hope this time makes people more inclined to flush the predators out. i think this really is the tip of the iceberg.
X-Rated
11-20-2011, 10:50 AM
...
And you apologists, you WILL pull the sympathy card for Paterno, and vilify anyone who states otherwise, to you I say FUCK YOU.
...
FUCK!
Very well put. Thank you.
ka4dpo
11-20-2011, 12:22 PM
Regardless of the the truth, and it was known for at least ten years, Penn State officials chose to plant their heads in the sand to avoid a scandal. The football program makes a huge amount of money for the school and they didn't want to get any dirt on it. It's all about the money and everyone who knew what was going on either directly or indirectly is guilty of misconduct for not immediately going to the police. All in the name of money.
Regardless of the the truth, and it was known for at least ten years, Penn State officials chose to plant their heads in the sand to avoid a scandal. The football program makes a huge amount of money for the school and they didn't want to get any dirt on it. It's all about the money and everyone who knew what was going on either directly or indirectly is guilty of misconduct for not immediately going to the police. All in the name of money.
That's the "money" quote. Right there.
KC2UGV
06-22-2012, 09:19 PM
Sandusky found guilty on 45 counts: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/22/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
suddenseer
06-22-2012, 10:09 PM
I say, allow the victims, and their families get some quality time in a room alone with Sandusky.
kf0rt
06-22-2012, 10:23 PM
I say, allow the victims, and their families get some quality time in a room alone with Sandusky.
Isn't that, like, Islamic or something? :lol:
suddenseer
06-22-2012, 10:50 PM
Isn't that, like, Islamic or something? :lol:It comes with that "fuck with my children, wait till I get my hands on you" thing I am a parent/grandparent I have those feelings.
W4GPL
06-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Now it's time to go after the other bastards who covered for this piece of filth. The man absolutely makes me skin crawl every time I see his picture on TV.
I'm glad to see that every once in awhile we can try and convict the bad guys in such a clean and methodical way. The prosecutors kept this trial in line and weren't distracted by the media sideshow.
X-Rated
06-23-2012, 09:17 AM
Isn't that, like, Islamic or something? :lol:
It's as Islamic as Jesus and kabobs.
Sandusky is going to get PLENTY of "quality" time with Bubba xD
OTOH, Paterno... he is facing the music.in the Big Broiler xD
W4GPL
06-23-2012, 11:24 AM
Yes, prison rape is hilarious. Let's make more jokes about that. :roll:
Sandusky's attorneys say they plan to appeal (of course). The fact that he'll be in jail during that process is a good thing - the longer the better.
KG4CGC
06-23-2012, 12:07 PM
Yes, prison rape is hilarious. Let's make more jokes about that. :roll:
It is unfortunate that this is the general attitude in this country. That we don't send people to prison AS punishment but we send them to prison FOR punishment. Being isolated isn't enough in our good Christian world. We want our pound of flesh, Old Testament style. This is also very unfortunate for the wrongly convicted.
W4GPL
06-23-2012, 01:06 PM
It is unfortunate that this is the general attitude in this country. That we don't send people to prison AS punishment but we send them to prison FOR punishment. Being isolated isn't enough in our good Christian world. We want our pound of flesh, Old Testament style. This is also very unfortunate for the wrongly convicted.A close member of my family is in prison.. for a very long time to come. He committed a violent crime and now has a mandatory minimum sentence under Florida's 10/20/Life gun law. I don't defend what he did, but I sure as hell don't condone the punishment he's subjected to in state prison. Every day of his life he has to avoid gang rape, muggings, and other awful insanity -- and he's no pedophile, just a run of the mill drug addict.
Prison violence should not be condoned for anyone [yes, even Jerry Sandusky] and I won't let quips like Kevin's to be taken lightly.
Prison violence should not be condoned for anyone [yes, even Jerry Sandusky] and I won't let quips like Kevin's to be taken lightly.
I can't remember his name but a Georgia warden seems to "get it" with regards to prison violence, including rape: Absolutely ZERO tolerance, and any guards caught 'looking the other way' while the stuff goes on are immediately relieved of duty.
KA9MOT
06-23-2012, 01:48 PM
A close member of my family is in prison.. for a very long time to come. He committed a violent crime and now has a mandatory minimum sentence under Florida's 10/20/Life gun law. I don't defend what he did, but I sure as hell don't condone the punishment he's subjected to in state prison. Every day of his life he has to avoid gang rape, muggings, and other awful insanity -- and he's no pedophile, just a run of the mill drug addict.
Prison violence should not be condoned for anyone [yes, even Jerry Sandusky] and I won't let quips like Kevin's to be taken lightly.
My oldest son is in Prison. It is a fairly safe prison, but I have to honestly say that he has asked for anything that happens to him. I love my son, but he has made his bed.
My former Cousin-in-Law (Freddy, AKA Dumbass) has done time in Pennsylvania for trying to rob a bar in Wilkes-Barre (They took his empty gun away and almost beat him to death) back in the 1980s. It was so bad he has not been in any trouble since. I've heard his stories and if they are accurate, Sandusky may not survive for very long.
KG4CGC
06-23-2012, 02:01 PM
While the media has tried to make prison shows on TV to show how bad prison life can be, I think in most cases they have actually glamorized prison life. Never mind that the gang community has glamorized prison and consider it a badge of honor.
Until they actually show the violence in prison as it happens, inmate on inmate etc, people in America will still hold dear their belief that prison is a place FOR punishment and not a place to be sent to AS punishment. That punishment being isolation from society not getting raped or killed or beaten so badly that it won't matter where they keep you afterwards.
KC2UGV
06-23-2012, 05:10 PM
I can't remember his name but a Georgia warden seems to "get it" with regards to prison violence, including rape: Absolutely ZERO tolerance, and any guards caught 'looking the other way' while the stuff goes on are immediately relieved of duty.
They should be tried as criminals for "Crimes against humanity", as per the Geneva Conventions in regards to the treatment of all prisoners.
n2ize
06-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Problem is that in most prisons you are dealing with the scum of the earth. It's dynamite looking for a fuse and it doesn't matter if yoou look the other way or not, its gonna happen. Another problem is that many news articles give the point of view of the Cons where sometimes the CO's can give the a better handle on whats going on.
KG4CGC
06-23-2012, 07:01 PM
Problem is that in most prisons you are dealing with the scum of the earth. It's dynamite looking for a fuse and it doesn't matter if yoou look the other way or not, its gonna happen. Another problem is that many news articles give the point of view of the Cons where sometimes the CO's can give the a better handle on whats going on.
I have no idea what you just said. I will say this, there are more non-violent offenders in hardcore prison than ever in our history thanks to draconian laws for simple offenses.
suddenseer
06-23-2012, 07:41 PM
Sandusky is not an example of simple offenses. He raises the bar to where maybe it has not been raised before. If he did what they say he did, I hope he rots in hell.I am a parent/grandparent I have strong feelings.This offense is not what gay people do. I am gay, and if that SOB did something to my children/grandchildren, he would have me to deal with.
I am 100% gay, and 100% parent. People like Sandusky make me puke.
KA9MOT
06-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Sandusky is not an example of simple offenses. He raises the bar to where maybe it has not been raised before. If he did what they say he did, I hope he rots in hell.I am a parent/grandparent I have strong feelings.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
KA9MOT
06-23-2012, 07:49 PM
the CO's can give the a better handle on whats going on.
Bullshit......
My buddy Brian is a CO at the Iowa State Penitentiary in Fort Madison, Iowa. He is also the Union Rep there. He is always whining and crying about how dangerous his job is. He's afraid.
A guy I went to school with is a CO at Henry Hill Prison in Galesburg, IL. He likes his cons and gets along great with them.
It's like anything else. It depends on the person.
KG4CGC
06-23-2012, 11:21 PM
Sandusky is not an example of simple offenses. He raises the bar to where maybe it has not been raised before. If he did what they say he did, I hope he rots in hell.I am a parent/grandparent I have strong feelings.This offense is not what gay people do. I am gay, and if that SOB did something to my children/grandchildren, he would have me to deal with.
I am 100% gay, and 100% parent. People like Sandusky make me puke.
I am in no way saying that anything Sandusky did is a simple offense but I am speaking for those if prison for possession of benign substances.
n2ize
06-23-2012, 11:58 PM
Bullshit......
My buddy Brian is a CO at the Iowa State Penitentiary in Fort Madison, Iowa. He is also the Union Rep there. He is always whining and crying about how dangerous his job is. He's afraid.
A guy I went to school with is a CO at Henry Hill Prison in Galesburg, IL. He likes his cons and gets along great with them.
It's like anything else. It depends on the person.
But when anything goes wrong who is the media going to go to ?? They are going to go to the cons who are going to make up some story. If you really want to know what is going on in any given prison you've go to talk to the guards.
Well, its been found out that Sandusky is NOT going to be in GP at the county lockup...So at least the sheriff is looking out for his welfare.
Yes, prison rape is hilarious. Let's make more jokes about that. :roll:
He will be killed. That is not a joke.
Child molesters are the lowest rung of the ladder in prison and are dealt with by the inmates in their own way. The guards will stay out of it too. He is currently on suicide watch for a reason.
KA9MOT
06-24-2012, 12:11 PM
He will be killed. That is not a joke.
Child molesters are the lowest rung of the ladder in prison and are dealt with by the inmates in their own way. The guards will stay out of it too. He is currently on suicide watch for a reason.
As it should be........
Now it's time to go after the other bastards who covered for this piece of filth. The man absolutely makes me skin crawl every time I see his picture on TV.
I'm glad to see that every once in awhile we can try and convict the bad guys in such a clean and methodical way. The prosecutors kept this trial in line and weren't distracted by the media sideshow.It's starting to look like the upper administration applied pressure to the DA & stop an arrest... in 1998.
To protect the University's image, of course. That's sure worked out well, hasn't it?
I hope everyone who took part in this cover-up is held accountable. And locked in the same cold, dank, miserable basement cellblock that Sandusky richly deserves.
Well, its been found out that Sandusky is NOT going to be in GP at the county lockup...So at least the sheriff is looking out for his welfare.I wouldn't quite put it that way.
I think until final sentencing happens... and it appears that there will be an appeal, though I don't know if it's real or pro forma (his attorneys are now complaining that the state rushed sleezebag to trial & that they didn't have sufficent time to prepare, so they want a new trial)... the State Department of Corrections doesn't want Sandusky's blook on their hands. In other words, it's not that they're looking out for his ass so much as they're trying to make sure their own aren't exposed in the interim.
It's starting to look like the upper administration applied pressure to the DA & stop an arrest... in 1998.
To protect the University's image, of course. That's sure worked out well, hasn't it?
I hope everyone who took part in this cover-up is held accountable. And locked in the same cold, dank, miserable basement cellblock that Sandusky richly deserves.
This...is interdasting.
This...is interdasting.
If true, this is criminal.
If true, this is criminal.
Yes, and this is why Sandusky is going to get a short or cushy sentence: Testimony about the upper echelons at PSU in exchange.
Yes, and this is why Sandusky is going to get a short or cushy sentence: Testimony about the upper echelons at PSU in exchange.Well, we'll see. It's not clear about how much, if anything, he may have been told.
News reports last night & this morning indicate that the NBC News interview from a few months back, which was introduced into evidence... well, at least one of the three 'versions' (apparently they ran slightly different cuts for various news programs) had been edited to make it appear that short eyes had hesitated on an answer, giving the appearance that he was looking to cover his tracks.
NBC allegedly didn't catch the editing 'error' until after the tape had been presented in court, as evidence.
This was one of the items that the jury asked the judge for clarification on. So it's not a minor item, but a major one...
So there is a real, legitimate chance that the verdict might be thrown out & there's a new trial.
W4GPL
06-25-2012, 07:34 AM
If there's a new trial, that will be unfortunate for the victims, but they'll still get him. He's spending the rest of his life in prison, I'm quite convinced of it. They can simplify the charges if needed and he'd still be done for. And now there's this new accusation by the step son.. No one needs to worry about Jerry Sandusky being on the streets.
If he does somehow return to the streets, its Jerry Sandusky who needs to worry. But i think you are right, hes done. Penn State even took him off their mural, they are trying to wash their hands of the bastard as quick as they can so they can get back to normal.
If he does somehow return to the streets, its Jerry Sandusky who needs to worry. But i think you are right, he's done. Penn State even took him off their mural, they are trying to wash their hands of the bastard as quick as they can so they can get back to normal.Those bastards can wash their hands as much or as hard as they want... they will never get the stain of Sandusky & their actions in the cover-up off their hands.
Nothing short of a full house-cleaning of the bureaucrats... starting at the very top with those cowardly back-stabbing connivers on the board of trustees... will cleanse that stain.
Thats the part that wont happen, maybe a few will go, but it will get back to normal...in the business sense of the word.
wa6mhz
06-25-2012, 08:39 AM
News just said Sandusky is on SUICIDE WATCH!
That would be an EASY WAY OUT!
News just said Sandusky is on SUICIDE WATCH!
That would be an EASY WAY OUT!
Bullet to the back of the head in the exercise yard would be the 'easy way out', but I suspect he may be given preferential treatment in exchange for some timely testimony against his superiors.
Thats the part that wont happen, maybe a few will go, but it will get back to normal...in the business sense of the word.Actually, the President was fired, and there are two high level administrators under indictment... one suspended, I don't recall offhand the status of the other. And the last election for the Board (their terms are phased so that you can't replace the entire board wholesale at once) saw sever sitting Trustees given the boot.
It's a start. But the new administration must clean house.
It's already started on the football side as well. I think only 2 coaches from Paterno's staff are left, neither of whom were (IIRC) around during Sandusky's time on the staff.
But it's going to be a long, long time before I, and many other alumni, think anything other than disgust with the administration, and how poorly they handled this whole thing from the start.
News just said Sandusky is on SUICIDE WATCH!
That would be an EASY WAY OUT!That's not only to prevent him from harming himself, but to prevent others from practicing inmate justice.
n2ize
06-25-2012, 07:38 PM
He will be killed. That is not a joke.
Child molesters are the lowest rung of the ladder in prison and are dealt with by the inmates in their own way. The guards will stay out of it too. He is currently on suicide watch for a reason.
I think its great ifhe will be killed. he is a piece of shit. Its the only justice he deserves. He's a scum of the earth. The sooner they dispose of the piece of garbage the better. Time to eliminate the trash.
suddenseer
06-25-2012, 08:16 PM
I have never heard of this kind of shit happening. How do we prevent it from ever happening again?
n2ize
06-25-2012, 10:06 PM
I have never heard of this kind of shit happening. How do we prevent it from ever happening again?
You shoot them, that's how. When they know they'll get their heads blown off they'll stop the shit.
You shoot them, that's how. When they know they'll get their heads blown off they'll stop the shit.
Shoot the Little Leaguers or the litigants?
KG4CGC
06-25-2012, 10:38 PM
Shoot the Little Leaguers or the litigants?
Wrong thread.
Shoot the Little Leaguers or the litigants?
Penn State has a little league program??
No wonder he wanted to work there!
W4GPL
06-26-2012, 06:07 AM
Jerry Sandusky was mercilessly taunted for HOURS during his first night in jail back in December -- when his fellow inmates chanted Pink Floyd's famous lyrics ... "Hey teacher, leave those kids alone!"
http://www.tmz.com/2012/06/25/jerry-sandusky-pink-floyd-leave-those-kids-alone-taunted-mocked/
:lol: :shifty:
Jerry Sandusky was mercilessly taunted for HOURS during his first night in jail back in December -- when his fellow inmates chanted Pink Floyd's famous lyrics ... "Hey teacher, leave those kids alone!"
http://www.tmz.com/2012/06/25/jerry-sandusky-pink-floyd-leave-those-kids-alone-taunted-mocked/
:lol: :shifty:
Cons got time for shenanigans, they got time to be stamping out more license plates.
n2ize
06-26-2012, 07:08 AM
Shoot the Little Leaguers or the litigants?
Neither. They should shoot the child molesters. The lowlifes who exploit children for their sick perversion. They are the ones who need a cap in their heads.
n2ize
06-26-2012, 07:10 AM
Cons got time for shenanigans, they got time to be stamping out more license plates.
Not all cons are al bad. In this case the cons are right, A lot of cons have families and children of their own and the last thing they want is some lowlife pervert who poreys on kids..
Not all cons are al bad. In this case the cons are right, A lot of cons have families and children of their own and the last thing they want is some lowlife pervert who poreys on kids..
So mag him in the melon and be done with the affair. Think of the children. Think of the tax savings.
Jerry Sandusky was mercilessly taunted for HOURS during his first night in jail back in December -- when his fellow inmates chanted Pink Floyd's famous lyrics ... "Hey teacher, leave those kids alone!"
http://www.tmz.com/2012/06/25/jerry-sandusky-pink-floyd-leave-those-kids-alone-taunted-mocked/
:lol: :shifty:Lead story on KDKA News at 6 last night. Sure glad that they keep up with things.
n2ize
06-26-2012, 08:01 AM
Wonder if they should bring back lobotomy's just for child molesters ?
KG4CGC
06-26-2012, 08:25 AM
Wonder if they should bring back lobotomy's just for child molesters ?
Could have shipped them off to Iraq. Oh wait. Can't do that. George Jr. killed the butcher.
Wrong thread.
Oops. Fucking truck drivers...
KG4CGC
06-26-2012, 09:05 AM
Oops. Fucking truck drivers...
yEAH ... tRUCKING fUCK dRIVERS.
Wonder if they should bring back lobotomy's]castration just for child molesters ?
Fixed. And for the record, I have NO respect for chomos.This should clear the air for Jeff's sake To hell with Sandusky getting preferential treatment just to air out Penn State's dirty laundry. To add...
WHAT THE FUCK CAN THEY DO TO PATERNO???? HE'S DEAD, FOR CHRISSAKES!!!
Dig him up. Put him on trial. It will make us feel better.
n2ize
06-26-2012, 06:38 PM
Dig him up. Put him on trial. It will make us feel better.
If there were some magic way to bring the lowlifes back to life just so we could hang them I would be all for it.
It would be like trying to hang an overcooked chicken....parts flying all over the place and everything...blech!
In light of this:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/joe-paterno-influenced-penn-state-officials-quiet-jerry-sandusky-emails-reveal-article-1.1105285
One of you ladies or gents care to hand out shovels?
I saw that. No disrespect to people who enjoy the sport, but its just football. The fact that people dont want to believe that a guy covered for another guy while he banged little boys in the ass and ruined their lives shows how far people will take idol worship.
I saw that. No disrespect to people who enjoy the sport, but its just football. The fact that people dont want to believe that a guy covered for another guy while he banged little boys in the ass and ruined their lives shows how far people will take idol worship.
This is my number one gripe with athletics programs in school.
The two should be decoupled entirely. You want to teach? Fine...that's all you do. You want to coach? No scholastic involvement or leverage whatsoever, and the teams themselves can find a funding method which doesn't impact the effectiveness of the institution as a center of learning.
Anything else is unacceptable.
I know Ron won't like this, but the athletic program at Penn State needs the Death Penalty. There's no excuse at all for this stuff happening. The people at the top of the food chain KNEW what was going on, they chose to ignore it.
The people at the top of the food chain KNEW what was going on, they chose to ignore it.
If the article was totally accurate they not only chose to ignore it but weighed the consequences of coming forth vs dismissal beforehand. Now IANAL, and one or more of the Island's jailhouse variety will be along shortly to comment...but...I believe the actions of the administration meet the definition of the terms 'collusion' and 'conspiracy'. Thus, RICO could possibly be applied.
n2ize
06-30-2012, 06:12 PM
I know Ron won't like this, but the athletic program at Penn State needs the Death Penalty. There's no excuse at all for this stuff happening. The people at the top of the food chain KNEW what was going on, they chose to ignore it.
+10000000000000000000000 ^^^
X-Rated
07-01-2012, 01:54 AM
Southern Methodist got the death penalty. It didn't kill them.
n4aud
07-05-2012, 11:50 PM
They should have their football program permanently eliminated and the football field dozed and turned into a parking lot. How on earth could people sit around in some conference room and debate whether or not to stop a monster from raping boys???? And he is a monster, worse than any of those boys could have imagined hiding under their beds.
NA4BH
07-05-2012, 11:54 PM
They should have their football program permanently eliminated and the football field dozed and turned into a parking lot. How on earth could people sit around in some conference room and debate whether or not to stop a monster from raping boys???? And he is a monster, worse than any of those boys could have imagined hiding under their beds.
Or at least until Sandusky dies, in prison, of natural causes. Tell me the State wouldn't get real religious, real fast and start praying. AMEN.
They should have their football program permanently eliminated and the football field dozed and turned into a parking lot. How on earth could people sit around in some conference room and debate whether or not to stop a monster from raping boys???? And he is a monster, worse than any of those boys could have imagined hiding under their beds.
I agree, the NCAA needs to shut this program down NOW.
The NCAA and all the other moralists are always talking about setting an example, and here's a prime case to make that happen. Lack of institutional control is the key phrase here. If shutting down a big program like Penn State saves one kid, it's worth it.
It's inexcusable what happened there. Joe Paterno and the Penn State hierarchy are criminally negligent. Yes, I know Paterno is dead, but that doesn't excuse the university and its leaders including the regents.
The argument against will be thus: If we shut down Penn State football, then State College, PA will dry up and blow away. Too bad. That community invested too much in these people and the program, unfortunately, they will have to pay the price. The ridiculous rioting after Paterno's firing was completely off the scale. This guy was a FOOTBALL COACH, not the messiah.
This is not a "let's move on" moment. Penn State Football needs to be offline for at least the mandatory 2 years and upon return, have strict supervision. This isn't about boosters and too much money. This is about a major D-1 program hiding child molestation by one of its long term coaches.
There's no defense for ANY of their actions.
But, but, but...we can take conference this year! NOW what are we gonna do??
WØTKX
07-06-2012, 09:58 AM
Put alumni on the field...
http://cdn.everyjoe.com/files/2009/03/king-of-the-hill.jpg
Why didnt Dale get a number?
W4GPL
07-06-2012, 05:43 PM
Why didnt Dale get a number?Everyone knows he was the towel manager. :roll: Geez, are you as stupid as Jimmy Wichard or something?
;)
WØTKX
07-06-2012, 06:33 PM
http://images.wikia.com/kingofthehill/images/7/76/Buckley-At-Store-king-of-the-hill-10923612-720-480.jpg
Easy Jeff, dont make me get all John Redcorn on you and sleep with your wife!
....oh, wait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5JCp2Hd5L8&feature=g-upl
X-Rated
07-06-2012, 09:59 PM
Any predictions?
I predict that Penn State will not get the death penalty. They will be barred from bowl games for 3 years.
As if.
W4GPL
07-07-2012, 03:52 AM
I think there will be enough crocodile tears that the NCAA will avoid giving the death penalty, in the interest of the students & players. Though I strongly believe the program should be abolished indefinitely and reviewed every year until an independent committee decides Penn State has made all the reforms needed. Though presumably they've already cut the head off the snake.. we'll see.
I assure you it wont happen that way, too much money and local pride wrapped up in it. After a few months, Sandusky is out of the news, everyone will be screaming for football and they will get it back because memories are brutally short when it comes to macho shit. Ill be surprised if anything else is done...maybe lose some games, maybe a season, if that.
W4GPL
07-07-2012, 04:12 AM
Well 'local pride' won't factor into the NCAA's decision, but surely the money will. Though I can't imagine too many highschool seniors are looking favorably at coming to Penn State with pending sanctions -- their football program is somewhat doomed for years regardless of what the NCAA does.
Dont get me wrong, i wont shed a tear since i feel colleges put money and school pride above education these days. But i say local pride because many locals are a noisy bunch when their playthings and sources of manliness are disturbed by 'infractions'.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.