"Wall 2 Wall..."

[W3WN]

Holy schnike, Batman...

Did you listen to 10 meters this weekend?

Yeah, sure, it was a Major Contest weekend, but stilll... stations QRV from 28.300 up past 29 MHz... I wokred a few around 29.025 (and that's on SSB, not FM)

You could work Europe one minute, middle Africa the next, Hawaii right after, South America, back to the Pacific, then the North Atlantic (Greenland or Iceland, take your pick), and back again.

If you didn't work DXCC (or close to it) on 10 alone, you weren't trying. I wasn't trying, but in a few hours Saturday, a few hours Sunday, 40 entities and 50 stations... on 10. And I could have had a lot more if I had really tried.

I haven't heard conditions like this in years. And I mean years, as in the peak of the last cycle.

Fan - flippin' - tastic!

[KG4CGC]

I missed it.

[K7SGJ]

I guess I'll have to put one of the old CB rigs I modified for 10m on the tractor. I could mount the antenna on the gannon while I'm using the FEL. k7sgj/tm

[N8YX]

Didn't have the HF rig on at all this weekend - was out running errands, winterizing a motorcycle, riding bicycles with 'DSG. We did go to the Massillon Hamfest for a bit yesterday morning, however.

[PA5COR]

It was just as good before the contest, just more relaxed.
Worked the last weeks all over the world, this morning the cndx were good again.
The New York repeater is S 9 again at 13.00 local....and has been 9+60 lots of days.
Just running 200 watts from the FT 2000D the world is at my transceiver with an old Imax 2000 vertical at 35 feet above ground.

Meh, too easy.

[KC2UGV]

It was just as good before the contest, just more relaxed.
Worked the last weeks all over the world, this morning the cndx were good again.
The New York repeater is S 9 again at 13.00 local....and has been 9+60 lots of days.
Just running 200 watts from the FT 2000D the world is at my transceiver with an old Imax 2000 vertical at 35 feet above ground.

Meh, too easy.

Man, this weekend, you could have done it with 50W out :lol: like shooting fish in a barrel.

Me? I made the poor decision of starting to play with my sound server setup... PulseAudio is a pain in the ass...

[PA5COR]

5 Watt FM to New York directly, 5/9+
Just for a laugh....
On 15 meter i put on the amp, 800 watts out in the same Imax 2000, worked USA and got the report of the loudest European there, many running more power and horizontal beams from Europe.
I can use the Imax 2000 from 17 - 30 MHz and the OCF will work on most bands too there, as does the 77 feet high and 77 feet top loaded wire with MFJ 998 autotuner.
So for most bands i have 3 working antenna's.

But it's good to see the higher bands open again, my QRZ log did increase it's logged qso's a bit.
Worked Ghana on 160, all Europe in the contest, just giving a few points away.
Just listening to the 19.620 repeater at the moment.
Or alternative 28.340 USB.
Now, if 50 MHz opened up, myy 5 element beam might see some use.....one can always hope...

[W3WN]

It was just as good before the contest, just more relaxed.
Worked the last weeks all over the world, this morning the cndx were good again.
The New York repeater is S 9 again at 13.00 local....and has been 9+60 lots of days.
Just running 200 watts from the FT 2000D the world is at my transceiver with an old Imax 2000 vertical at 35 feet above ground.

Meh, too easy.It has been pretty great, hasn't it?

Of course, personally, 10 being this wide open also means 12 has been wide open as well. So I'm more than pleased.

I hope this wasn't a fluke, but it the harbinger of a good upcoming DX season this winter.

[W3WN]

Of course, the post-mortem whining is well underway... http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?318420-Stupid-CONTESTERS!!!!!-So-what-can-we-do-about-this-!!! (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?318420-Stupid-CONTESTERS!!!!!-So-what-can-we-do-about-this-!!!s) which went 13 pages before the lock, and all before I could get another WALT point, darn it.

...and one guy complaining that he was waiting for 10 to open? KB9LXP, are you kidding me?...

[PA5COR]

Must be using a dummy load as antenna?
Parked at 28.340 for another 1 to 2 hours, if anyone is interested?

[KJ3N]

...and one guy complaining that he was waiting for 10 to open? KB9LXP, are you kidding me?...

I took care of it. (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?318420-Stupid-CONTESTERS!!!!!-So-what-can-we-do-about-this-!!!&p=2370233#post2370233) ;)

[NQ6U]

...and one guy complaining that he was waiting for 10 to open? KB9LXP, are you kidding me?...

I was picking up 10m DX on my VX-2!

[KG4CGC]

All of western Europe is coming in right now.
The lower portion of the voice segment is strangely silent.

[NQ6U]

Hey, Charles—I'm working the night shift so I'm off right now. You want to try a 10m QSO?

[W3WN]

I took care of it. (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?318420-Stupid-CONTESTERS!!!!!-So-what-can-we-do-about-this-!!!&p=2370233#post2370233) ;)I saw that. Thanks.

[Now, if I'd made that comment, I would have been given a pointy hat and told to sit in the corner for a week or three. But of course, now that it's locked, I couldn't anyway.]

[KG4CGC]

28.340 and calling.

[N8YX]

There are at least four people in the linked thread who should be prosecuted for felony stupid. Chief amongst them being the originator, who by virtue of whining has all but guaranteed a repeat performance of Saturday night's QRM-fest.

[W3WN]

Well, I think I know what happened. Of course, the originator clearly will not listen to reason, but never mind that. And I know that some of you reading this post already know some or all of this, so bear with me for those who don't...

Remember that until recently, most Region 1 stations saw 80 meters end at 3800 kHz. That's one of the reasons that the DX window was 3790 - 3800.
Further, until fairly recently, 3799 & below was exclusive Extra Class - only territory.

Therefore, it was, and is, not at all unusual for US stations to position themselves above 3800 kHz and call CQ DX, with a listening frequency below, sometimes well below 3800. Especially for Advanced and General class operators. And the savvy EU & AF DX ops know this.

Now yes, the US phone band has expanded downwards, but the DX window remains where it is, as do old habits.

Factor in that the bulk of DX stations calling North America over the weekend were operating in the 3600 - 3800 kHz range.

And finally, I observed about a dozen US stations above 3800 kHz on Friday & Saturday night who announced that they were listening below 3800, just like the good old days.

So: What I suspect happened is that someone set themselves up on or near the yahoo net's frequency, and either didn't hear them at the time, or didn't care. And of course, whenever they were being told by the yahoo net (if they were) that there was QRM (be it incidental or intentional), they never heard the yahoo net. (And 3 will get you 2 that the contester was there first, considering that the yahoo net allegedly started up operation at 10 PM / 0400 Z, and at that point in time, 80 was WIDE open to EU & had been for hours!)

And I'm sure, since this alleged net has allegedly been on the same alleged frequency for years, this is not the first time that this very thing has happened.

Therefore, the yahoo & his net want severe penalties on all contesters. Of course. When the wiser course of action would have involved shifting the net frequency up a little and out of the way of the contest. But for that to happen, of course (and you can quote me on this), it would require the yahoo net members to collectivelly pull their heads out of their posteriors.

[KC2UGV]

I suspect a little differently than what you propose, but by and large the same:

The suspect listened when propagation paths were poor, and heard nothing, so set up there. Then started calling CQ, while listening down for DX (As is the older custom).

Propagation opened, and viola! He was QRM'ing a net in progress.

I don't understand why nets don't just set up on WARC bands if it interferes with their operations. ie MM net can state "14.300 MHz, unless contest is in session. Then, net will be on 17.150MHz +/- 10 KHz".

Easy peasy, and it's all clear.

[N8YX]

I don't understand why nets don't just set up on WARC bands if it interferes with their operations. ie MM net can state "14.300 MHz, unless contest is in session. Then, net will be on 17.150MHz +/- 10 KHz".

Easy peasy, and it's all clear.
That is far too simplistic a solution to work with any net.

You see, the unspoken part of the argument goes something like "Those a-hole contesters just started calling CQ on our net frequency where we've been meeting for years and which EVERYONE knows about..."

All of the CB euphemisms being thrown around in that thread lead me to believe that the originator has more than a little experience with the Class D, Part 95 Citizen's Band Radio Service and its unique operating paradigms...one of them being the concept of the so-called home channel - and along with it, the "channel master".

But that's not the manner in which the Amateur Radio Service operates.

I hope...no, I encourage the gentleman to bring the matter before the FCC. He and his net may very well witness a Finding levied against them in the same manner as Misek/Liberty Net et al vs FCC went down in the late 90's.

Unfortunately, that's the way the Law of Unintended Consequences works.

[NQ6U]

Unfortunately, that's the way the Law of Unintended Consequences works.

Much like with my next door neighbor who called the sheriff on us because we yelled "NO!" at his passel of Chihuahuas to make them cease their endless neurotic barking. He ended up getting a citation.

[ad4mg]

I suspect a little differently than what you propose, but by and large the same:

The suspect listened when propagation paths were poor, and heard nothing, so set up there. Then started calling CQ, while listening down for DX (As is the older custom).

Propagation opened, and viola! He was QRM'ing a net in progress.

I don't understand why nets don't just set up on WARC bands if it interferes with their operations. ie MM net can state "14.300 MHz, unless contest is in session. Then, net will be on 17.150MHz +/- 10 KHz".

Easy peasy, and it's all clear.
Uh, 18.150, right? :)

[KC2UGV]

Uh, 18.150, right? :)

17MHz is right in the maritime bands, right :)





Yeah, I mean 18. Thanks :sheepish look:

[K7SGJ]

That is far too simplistic a solution to work with any net.

You see, the unspoken part of the argument goes something like "Those a-hole contesters just started calling CQ on our net frequency where we've been meeting for years and which EVERYONE knows about..."

All of the CB euphemisms being thrown around in that thread lead me to believe that the originator has more than a little experience with the Class D, Part 95 Citizen's Band Radio Service and its unique operating paradigms...one of them being the concept of the so-called home channel - and along with it, the "channel master".

But that's not the manner in which the Amateur Radio Service operates.

I hope...no, I encourage the gentleman to bring the matter before the FCC. He and his net may very well witness a Finding levied against them in the same manner as Misek/Liberty Net et al vs FCC went down in the late 90's.

Unfortunately, that's the way the Law of Unintended Consequences works.


Obviously you don't understand. IT'S OUR FUCKIN FREQUENCY. GET OFF IT. GET OFF MY LAWN. TOO.

[N8YX]

Obviously you don't understand. IT'S OUR FUCKIN FREQUENCY. GET OFF IT. GET OFF MY LAWN. TOO.

Listening to "their frequency" at the moment.

If there's an organized, directed net in operation on that spot - now or at any other time - I'm Jesse Jackson.

[WX7P]

Damn, that was the most fun I'd had on 10 meters in years. 15 was equally hot here on the West Coast.

Even with my crappy antenna setup, I was able to bag LOTS of cool DX.

Looks like we may be moving again, so I'm hoping for something better at the new place, if and when it happens.

I don't give a shit what a bunch of zed whiners say, contests and open bands were pretty much the reason I got into ham radio in the first place.

It RULES!

[K7SGJ]

Folks who don't like contests should look at them as orchestrated, modulated propagation beacons.

[KJ3N]

Folks who don't like contests should look at them as orchestrated, modulated propagation beacons.

Folks who don't like contests are typically folks who can't pony up a decent signal. :snicker:

[PA5COR]

I don't participate in contests other as giving a few points away.
Must have a decent signal looking at the logbook ;)

[K7SGJ]

I don't participate in contests other as giving a few points away.
Must have a decent signal looking at the logbook ;)

I'm the same way. Contests have never been my thing because I'm not willing to devote the time necessary to actually compete. However, it's a great way to test the station out and work a few stations I wouldn't normally hear.

[KC2UGV]

Folks who don't like contests are typically folks who can't pony up a decent signal. :snicker:

... or are those who just don't do the whole "competition" hobby.

I put out a decent signal, I just don't do contests. I don't mind when others do them, however.

[KJ3N]

Folks who don't like contests are typically folks who can't pony up a decent signal. :snicker:
... or are those who just don't do the whole "competition" hobby.

Neither do I. I'm not in a contest to compete. Not that my station is much competition in the first place.

I'm in it to work something new, or to see how close to DXCC in a single weekend I can get. Best so far is 87 entities for this past contest. Previous best was 83.


I put out a decent signal, I just don't do contests. I don't mind when others do them, however.

There's a difference between not doing contests and hating them. The haters are typically the ones who bitch and moan the loudest. I firmly believe that most of the haters don't have a signal that can reach across their state, let alone across the country.

[W5GA]

There's a difference between not doing contests and hating them. The haters are typically the ones who bitch and moan the loudest. I firmly believe that most of the haters don't have a signal that can reach across their state, let alone across the country.
Hard to get anywhere with a G5RV at 10', or a 4BTV with no radials.

[K7SGJ]

Neither do I. I'm not in a contest to compete. Not that my station is much competition in the first place.

I'm in it to work something new, or to see how close to DXCC in a single weekend I can get. Best so far is 87 entities for this past contest. Previous best was 83.



There's a difference between not doing contests and hating them. The haters are typically the ones who bitch and moan the loudest. I firmly believe that most of the haters don't have a signal that can reach across their state, let alone across the country.

I think they hate and bitch & moan just for.....so.........well........because........NO FUKIN REASON. They just like to bitch and moan; and hate, something or someone.

[W1GUH]

Contests don't bother me -- and they're a great time to see who well your rig is working.

What I DON'T like about contests has nothing to do with the contest itself, but how the bands can be very hoppin' during the contest, but if there's no contest, the bands'll be practically dead.

Pity more of those contesters that liven up the bands during a contest don't get on for genereal, meet people and fork the BS type of operating.

This is not a recent phenomenon. Had the same lament in '61.

[n2ize]

I suspect a little differently than what you propose, but by and large the same:

The suspect listened when propagation paths were poor, and heard nothing, so set up there. Then started calling CQ, while listening down for DX (As is the older custom).

Propagation opened, and viola! He was QRM'ing a net in progress.

I don't understand why nets don't just set up on WARC bands if it interferes with their operations. ie MM net can state "14.300 MHz, unless contest is in session. Then, net will be on 17.150MHz +/- 10 KHz".

Easy peasy, and it's all clear.

I suspect it's a mixed bag. Probably a bad attitude on some of the people who run nets developing an attitude that they "own" the frequency and probably also a number of contesters who don't always see if the frequency is in use. It's one of those grey areas that I don't like to get into. Then of course there are the situations involving changes in propagation, now you don't hear him, now you hear him, now you don't.

[W3WN]

I suspect a little differently than what you propose, but by and large the same:

The suspect listened when propagation paths were poor, and heard nothing, so set up there. Then started calling CQ, while listening down for DX (As is the older custom).

Propagation opened, and viola! He was QRM'ing a net in progress.

I don't understand why nets don't just set up on WARC bands if it interferes with their operations. ie MM net can state "14.300 MHz, unless contest is in session. Then, net will be on 17.150MHz +/- 10 KHz".

Easy peasy, and it's all clear.Now that I've had a little more time to think about it: it may even have been simpler than THAT -- although that happens too.

In the case of the original complaint... the yahoo's net started at 10 PM Eastern (at the time 0200Z), right? Apples to oranges, the contester working split had probably been on the "net" frequency for hours. So the yahoos show up a few minutes before, and there's this damn contester on THEIR frequency (he's been there for hours, boys!) and he not only won't MOVE, he won't RESPOND to them (because he's listening elsewhere, that's what operating split means!). HOW DARE HE! And further indignation and teeth gnashing commences.

Yeah, right.

If this "net" has been operating on that frequency as long as the yahoo says it was, this is not a new occurance. It happens at least three weekends a year (ARRL DX SSB, CQ WPX SSB, CQ WW SSB) for major contests. So, what have they done about it? Have they looked into alternate frequencies? Changing their schedule? Suspending the net on a major contest weekend?

No, by gahd, no sir, they can't do THAT. We'll just BAN ALL CONTESTING because CONTESTERS DELIBERATELY QRM THEIR NET. Yeah, that'll sure show 'em.

[n2ize]

Now that I've had a little more time to think about it: it may even have been simpler than THAT -- although that happens too.

In the case of the original complaint... the yahoo's net started at 10 PM Eastern (at the time 0200Z), right? Apples to oranges, the contester working split had probably been on the "net" frequency for hours. So the yahoos show up a few minutes before, and there's this damn contester on THEIR frequency (he's been there for hours, boys!) and he not only won't MOVE, he won't RESPOND to them (because he's listening elsewhere, that's what operating split means!). HOW DARE HE! And further indignation and teeth gnashing commences.

Yeah, right.

If this "net" has been operating on that frequency as long as the yahoo says it was, this is not a new occurance. It happens at least three weekends a year (ARRL DX SSB, CQ WPX SSB, CQ WW SSB) for major contests. So, what have they done about it? Have they looked into alternate frequencies? Changing their schedule? Suspending the net on a major contest weekend?

No, by gahd, no sir, they can't do THAT. We'll just BAN ALL CONTESTING because CONTESTERS DELIBERATELY QRM THEIR NET. Yeah, that'll sure show 'em.

I still think its a mixed bag. You do have dolts who feel that just because they' have a regular net or group they own that frequency and anyone who ends up on that frequency, either deliberately or accidentally, is deliberately QRM'ing their net. By the same token there are contesters who don;t always take the time to listen for activity on frequency and/or may transmit anyway regardless of whether they hear activity of not. I think there are probably bad apples on both sides of the fence. This is a consequence of a an extremely human oriented hobby built around communications with other humans + the frailties of human nature and the ego's and attitudes that go with it. The contest versus non-contest versus net arguments have gone on since the beginnings and will likely go on for decades to come. It is also one of the reasons why I don;t consider ham radio to be my prime hobby or interest. For me hobbies and interests are more a way to escape from dealing with the human element and to learn things.

[W3WN]

Oh, certainly. As I've said elsewhere, in not so many words, a small but significant number of contesters are, well, uhm, they make Cowthief, the UT, and the Channel Jumper (amongst others) look good by comparison. Like the guy who's contest station is about an hour north and 15 minutes west of my house.

And in the kvetching in question, well, we've only heard one side of the story, in the aforementioned case, which is clearly biased.