Vaping...

[KC2UGV]

So, about 4 months ago or so, I quit smoking (Maybe more, not really sure anymore). I was still buying a pack of smokes for when I go to the club (I smoke like a chimney when drinking).

But, then one Saturday evening, whilst going into a gas station, I saw a "21st Century Smoke" electronic cigarette. I figured, "What the hell?" Got it instead of a pack of smokes.

Man! I fell in love with this thing. Hit the cravings for smoking, delivered the nicotine (I presume), and when I woke up the next morning, my chest wasn't killing me from smoking the night before!

So, after some tinkering, I bought a kit, and I must say, I'm hooked! I like the fact I don't get the smoke, but I do get the smoking ritual. So, I might be hooked on nicotine again (I dunno, I don't get the killer urge to smoke, I just pick up the vaporizer when I happen to have it), but I'm thinking this is a less-dangerous thing.

If you are trying to quit smoking, but, like myself, actually like smoking (But don't like the cancer), I'd give the vaporizers a try (aka electronic cigarettes).

[W3MIV]

Stop wasting your money. Man up and just throw the damned things away!

[KC2UGV]

Stop wasting your money. Man up and just throw the damned things away!

I had, for the most part quit. I was only a social smoker on the nights I went out. However, I actually enjoy the ritual of smoking. I just don't like the cancer part.

And, since the only thing I'm getting is nicotine (Which, by and large is just as harmful as caffeine), I don't see how I would be "manning up".

And, FWIW, you get nicotine from tomatoes too :) And, eggplant.

[n2ize]

I pretty much decided to cut out my pipe smoking, at least for a while. I was never a heavy smoker and I too enjoy the ritual of smoking a pipe. But like most of my tobacco activity, I do it for a little while and then I stop for a few years.

I do enjoy some chew tobacco every now and then but I also limit that to one or two pouches of "Red Man" per year, often going for weeks or months without a plug.

Cigarettes, I did them for a short time. Those damned things are highly addicting. Much more so than pipes or chew. Once you get used to sucking that smoke all the way into the lungs and you feel that nicotine rush you smoke them more and more , each time trying to get that same rush. I got hooked on them for around 6 months. Then one day I took a drag on a cigarette when I had a poison headache/hangover and I puked (something I almost never do). Right then and there the addiction was pretty much broken because I came to associate the cigarettes with a horrible feeling instead of a pleasurable one. Haven't gone near a cig since.

[KC2UGV]

If you enjoy pipe smoking, but hate the lingering smell of pipes, you might enjoy vaping as well.

There are several model that are fashioned like a pipe, and there is smoke juice flavored as close to pipe tobacco as is possible (It's impossible to make a mirror of it, it's chemically impossible).

But, you might also enjoy vaping from a heavy-duty vaper like this:
http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/product.asp?id=92

(http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/product.asp?id=92)or

http://www.ecigarette-mods.com/images/mods/screwdrivermkii.jpg

[n2ize]

If you enjoy pipe smoking, but hate the lingering smell of pipes, you might enjoy vaping as well.

There are several model that are fashioned like a pipe, and there is smoke juice flavored as close to pipe tobacco as is possible (It's impossible to make a mirror of it, it's chemically impossible).

But, you might also enjoy vaping from a heavy-duty vaper like this:
http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/product.asp?id=92

(http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/product.asp?id=92)or

http://www.ecigarette-mods.com/images/mods/screwdrivermkii.jpg

Actually I love the lingering smell of a good pipe tobacco. One of the things that attracted me to pipes was the aroma of the tobacco. Everything from the mild Burley's, the rich aromatic Cavendish and the spicy autumn-like Latakia (my favorite).

Meanwhile the vapourizer looks interesting. I might pick one up just to experiment with a bit. And they are indeed safer since there is no direct combustion. The primary danger of tobacco smoking comes from the irritating and carcinogenic combustion products and/or the combustion by products from fire curing of tobacco. Case and point, even though chewing tobacco can be dangerous it is far less dangerous than smoking because it is not burned. Vapourization is great because it eliminates the direct combustion by products.

I have heard that some people use marijuana by vapourization as opposed to direct combustion.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

[W3MIV]

You used to be able to buy nicotine at the hardware store and in garden centers. Cheap way to refill your gadget and get a real hit! ;)

[KG4CGC]

You used to be able to buy nicotine at the hardware store and in garden centers. Cheap way to refill your gadget and get a real hit! ;)Remember reading about homemade nicotine poison? Deadly to both man and beast. More effective for hunting elephants than the large bore rifle.

[KC2UGV]

You used to be able to buy nicotine at the hardware store and in garden centers. Cheap way to refill your gadget and get a real hit! ;)

Makes a great insecticide. As long as you don't touch it :)

[W3MIV]

Makes a great insecticide. As long as you don't touch it :)

Or smoke it.

[KC2UGV]

Or smoke it.

Nicotine, in the doses used for smoking/vaping, is not very dangerous. You need to ingest 60mg in a single dose to die. That's like instantly smoking a carton of cigarettes, assuming you are not a smoker.

[W3MIV]

...assuming you are not a smoker.

You assume correctly. I once was a smoker, but (as the late, great Justice Learned Hand once opined), "it is better that wisdom come late than never at all." I have been off the weed since 1995, at which date the main pump in the engine room suddenly went bananas and a team of EMS firemen pummeled me into compliance with the Surgeon General's recommendations.

[KG4CGC]

Two tins of Copenhagen used to have enough nicotine to kill a man. I wonder if the levels are still the same.
Well actually, you could extract the nicotine via household solvents and water to poison needle tips.

[W3MIV]

There are a host of research papers available that show that nicotine content of cigarettes climbed steadily through the 90s into the millennium. Some research indicates that nicotine, alone, is not addictive; it is a host of accompanying compounds that cause it to initiate physiological responses that result in addiction. I don't care enough to do the work needed to really ferret out information about the chemical relationships of nicotine and its cohorts vis a vis addiction to determine if there is a link of any of the research to the tobacco companies.

Smoking is a useless waste of money that often (perhaps more often than not) pisses others off. Riding in an auto in which anyone has smoked is tantamount to a torture that Geneva might want to examine. Using snuff or chewing in the presence of other humans is little short of disgusting, especially chewing. Being around inveterate chewing-tobacco addicts at shooting events is enough to bring one's morning coffee up. Sitting at a cafeteria table with a foam coffee cup into which to expectorate is revolting.

That anyone would waste money seeking any sort of artifice to imitate this loathsome habit is beyond a corrupted imagination.

[w2amr]

I had, for the most part quit. I was only a social smoker on the nights I went out. However, I actually enjoy the ritual of smoking. I just don't like the cancer part.

You didn't quit, you just cut down.
The COPD and emphysema parts aren't much fun either.

[n2ize]

Using snuff or chewing in the presence of other humans is little short of disgusting, especially chewing. Being around inveterate chewing-tobacco addicts at shooting events is enough to bring one's morning coffee up. Sitting at a cafeteria table with a foam coffee cup into which to expectorate is revolting.

Yet if you were around me you would not even know I had a plug in my mouth. I have managed ways to chew yet not to show any indication of expectorating. And I have developed the art of the "1/8th plug", big enough to be enjoyed for its flavour and satisfying, yet small enough to go unnoticed. Of course I seldom chew when in public anyway... it is such a small thing for me that I can leave the tobacco at home and enjoy a day/night out with no tobacco. Plus the fact that I frequently abstain from tobacco for months on end. But, the few times I have chewed in public I have learned to be extremely discrete. None of this rugged "in your face" chawin and spittin. I guess you can say I taught myself to chew like a gentleman, so at not to offend even the most sensitive and well mannered ladies.


That anyone would waste money seeking any sort of artifice to imitate this loathsome habit is beyond a corrupted imagination.

Simple, less risk. Vapourization = safer than smoking. Dramatic reduction in the potential for illness.

[KG4CGC]

Nicotine delivery via cigarettes has indeed been manipulated with chemicals and strains developed to increase the "punch" factor. The cigarettes we smoked in the 60s were a mere sip of beer compared to today's potent concoctions.

[KB3LAZ]

I enjoy Cigars and a pipe, smoke and flavor included. Not really into some vapor for nicotine. If it does not smell and taste like a cigar with thick smoke then I dont want it. Chewing on the end of my cigar is a plus as well and stays there long after my smoke has died off. :D

[KG4CGC]

The liquid that you can add (or cartridge) comes in various flavors including types of cigarish, pipeish and fruit and vanilla flavors as well as standard strength levels of standard cigarette flavor.

[KB3LAZ]

The liquid that you can add (or cartridge) comes in various flavors including types of cigarish, pipeish and fruit and vanilla flavors as well as standard strength levels of standard cigarette flavor.

Thats what they said about the hookah bar too. Taste like crap none the less. :P

[KG4CGC]

Hooka is an acquired taste. Considering that you have to use a special charcoal to use it, which is also available in flavors, says something about it although I don't know what.

[KB3LAZ]

Hooka is an acquired taste. Considering that you have to use a special charcoal to use it, which is also available in flavors, says something about it although I don't know what.

Looked like water and dried fruit to me.

[KG4CGC]

Looked like water and dried fruit to me.
The tobacco is a pressed block that has been treated, in most cases, with at least a small amount of honey. It rests on a disk of treated charcoal that ignites quickly to the touch of a match, like an incense block, and once it is finished sparkling you start to place tobacco on it. There is a varied selection of tobaccos and if you're a hooka smoker these days then you are experiencing a boon in availability of tobacco types and flavors.

[KB3LAZ]

The tobacco is a pressed block that has been treated, in most cases, with at least a small amount of honey. It rests on a disk of treated charcoal that ignites quickly to the touch of a match, like an incense block, and once it is finished sparkling you start to place tobacco on it. There is a varied selection of tobaccos and if you're a hooka smoker these days then you are experiencing a boon in availability of tobacco types and flavors.

Lol all I know is that it sucked. I like my cigars. xD

[KG4CGC]

Mmmm, yes. I like cigars too.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Boda%20Pipes%20Alec%20Bradley%20Black%20Market%20S moker/Drew%20Estate/bf257dbf.jpg

[KB3LAZ]

Mmmm, yes. I like cigars too.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Boda%20Pipes%20Alec%20Bradley%20Black%20Market%20S moker/Drew%20Estate/bf257dbf.jpg


Not a fan of Acid cigars. Montecristo, Cohiba, Olor, Punch, Baccarat, and Cusano. In that order.

[n2ize]

Nicotine, in the doses used for smoking/vaping, is not very dangerous. You need to ingest 60mg in a single dose to die. That's like instantly smoking a carton of cigarettes, assuming you are not a smoker.

Yeah but even in below the lethal dose chronic use is not the best thing for blood pressure. Not to mention that non-lethal nicotine poisoning is one of the most horrible feelings in the universe. I'll never forget the time that I got sick as hell from Copenhagen smokeless tobacco. I was out mowing the lawn when it hit me. A nauseating sense of dizziness followed by several hours of the most horrid sickly feeling I ever felt. There was no way to get comfortable.If I lied down I felt like crap if I got up I felt like uggghhh... miserable. Finally, after a few hours the sickness abated just as sudden as it came on. But while it was happening it felt like an eternity of horror.

[KC2UGV]

You assume correctly. I once was a smoker, but (as the late, great Justice Learned Hand once opined), "it is better that wisdom come late than never at all." I have been off the weed since 1995, at which date the main pump in the engine room suddenly went bananas and a team of EMS firemen pummeled me into compliance with the Surgeon General's recommendations.

Ok, so at 60mg, you'd be killed. You would have to smoke 300 cigarettes instantly, for it to kill you from the nicotine toxicity.


Two tins of Copenhagen used to have enough nicotine to kill a man. I wonder if the levels are still the same.
Well actually, you could extract the nicotine via household solvents and water to poison needle tips.

You can still do it, the problem is you also extract more than just the nicotine, unless you use some high grade solvents and lab equipment :(


There are a host of research papers available that show that nicotine content of cigarettes climbed steadily through the 90s into the millennium. Some research indicates that nicotine, alone, is not addictive;

So, nicotine on it's own, is less dangerous of a substance than say, caffeine, which is very addictive?


it is a host of accompanying compounds that cause it to initiate physiological responses that result in addiction. I don't care enough to do the work needed to really ferret out information about the chemical relationships of nicotine and its cohorts vis a vis addiction to determine if there is a link of any of the research to the tobacco companies.


There's the host of MAOI's present in tobacco smoke, which is widely thought to actually cause the addiction to nicotine.

I think that's what you are looking for, yes?



Smoking is a useless waste of money that often (perhaps more often than not) pisses others off. Riding in an auto in which anyone has smoked is tantamount to a torture that Geneva might want to examine.

Good thing I was bringing up vaping, and not smoking. You'd never be able to tell I was vaping next to you, unless I bellow out a cloud of vapors :lol:


Using snuff or chewing in the presence of other humans is little short of disgusting, especially chewing. Being around inveterate chewing-tobacco addicts at shooting events is enough to bring one's morning coffee up. Sitting at a cafeteria table with a foam coffee cup into which to expectorate is revolting.


Unless, of course, you develop the interesting skill of being able to just swallow the juice, and to only spit out the wad when done.



That anyone would waste money seeking any sort of artifice to imitate this loathsome habit is beyond a corrupted imagination.

The same could be said for anyone drinking coffee, which is highly addictive. Or, imbibing alcohol. Or, consuming any substance that alters one's mood, such as percocet or vicodin.


You didn't quit, you just cut down.
The COPD and emphysema parts aren't much fun either.

I all but quit, as I don't go out to the clubs very often (Once every six months), but I guess you could say I cut down greatly :)

And, yeah, the COPD and emphysema aren't fun either, to wit I was looking to avoid.


I enjoy Cigars and a pipe, smoke and flavor included. Not really into some vapor for nicotine. If it does not smell and taste like a cigar with thick smoke then I dont want it. Chewing on the end of my cigar is a plus as well and stays there long after my smoke has died off. :D

They do have cigar juices, that produce a great bellow of vapors :) Not so much on the chewing part, though.


Yeah but even in below the lethal dose chronic use is not the best thing for blood pressure.

Neither is coffee. Or alcohol. Or marijuana. Or LSD. Or percocet. Or vicodin. Or salvia dinorum. Or digitalis. Or any number of substances we use to alter mood/perception.

My blood pressure I don't have much to worry about. I have the blood pressure of a 25 year old (I'm 31). I exercise quite a bit.


Not to mention that non-lethal nicotine poisoning is one of the most horrible feelings in the universe. I'll never forget the time that I got sick as hell from Copenhagen smokeless tobacco. I was out mowing the lawn when it hit me. A nauseating sense of dizziness followed by several hours of the most horrid sickly feeling I ever felt. There was no way to get comfortable.If I lied down I felt like crap if I got up I felt like uggghhh... miserable. Finally, after a few hours the sickness abated just as sudden as it came on. But while it was happening it felt like an eternity of horror.

Non-lethal OD'ing of any substance sucks. Nicotine OD is about on par with caffeine OD. I've experienced both, and they are quite similar.

[n2ize]

Unless, of course, you develop the interesting skill of being able to just swallow the juice, and to only spit out the wad when done.


You can't swallow the juice from chewing tobacco. You will get sick as hell. I know people who chewed for decades and were as used to the stuff as hell and they would still get sick if they swallowed the juice. Heck, I was pretty darned used to the stuff and even I would never swallow the tobacco juices. You've gotta spit it. That's why spittoons were so popular back in days gone by. Lot of people used to chew back then and they all had to spit. The only place you find spiittoons nowadays is next to each Supreme court justices chairs. I am not making this up either. They were kept their as a part of USA tradition.




The same could be said for anyone drinking coffee, which is highly addictive. Or, imbibing alcohol. Or, consuming any substance that alters one's mood, such as percocet or vicodin.


Not too sure about that. Percocet, Vicoden are CNS depressants. They would likely lower BP. Alcohol definitely lowers BP. I have measured my own BP before drinking and after drinking and it drops pretty darned low. However, there might be an opposite effect for a while after the alcohol wears off. Caffeine, CNS stimulant but I beleive it also dilates blood vessels which tend to reduce its BP raising effect. Nicotine, in addition to a being CNS stimulant and raising BP it also acts as a vasoconstrictor (similar to cocaine) making the BP raising effects more dramatic.






Non-lethal OD'ing of any substance sucks. Nicotine OD is about on par with caffeine OD. I've experienced both, and they are quite similar.

I don't know about that. I used to take massive doses of caffeine in my younger years..(I used to eat No-DOZ tablets). If I took to many I would get jitters,anxiety, and wouldn;t be able to sleep for a few days which sucked and which is why I quit them. But I never felt anything even close to the horrible feeling from nicotine poisoning. Even small excesses of nicotine can make you feel like hell. I can;t think of anything that has ever made me feel as God awful as nicotine.

[KC2UGV]

You can't swallow the juice from chewing tobacco. You will get sick as hell. I know people who chewed for decades and were as used to the stuff as hell and they would still get sick if they swallowed the juice. Heck, I was pretty darned used to the stuff and even I would never swallow the tobacco juices. You've gotta spit it. That's why spittoons were so popular back in days gone by. Lot of people used to chew back then and they all had to spit. The only place you find spiittoons nowadays is next to each Supreme court justices chairs. I am not making this up either. They were kept their as a part of USA tradition.


I've chewed and dipped. Swallowed all the time. Especially in formation. Never carried a cup of any sort.



Not too sure about that. Percocet, Vicoden are CNS depressants. They would likely lower BP. Alcohol definitely lowers BP. I have measured my own BP before drinking and after drinking and it drops pretty darned low. However, there might be an opposite effect for a while after the alcohol wears off. Caffeine, CNS stimulant but I beleive it also dilates blood vessels which tend to reduce its BP raising effect. Nicotine, in addition to a being CNS stimulant and raising BP it also acts as a vasoconstrictor (similar to cocaine) making the BP raising effects more dramatic.


Constantly doing depressants or stimulants is most certainly not good for your ticker. No matter how you look at it.

Not to mention, I was speaking of all health issues surrounding sustained use of any chemical.



I don't know about that. I used to take massive doses of caffeine in my younger years..(I used to eat No-DOZ tablets). If I took to many I would get jitters,anxiety, and wouldn;t be able to sleep for a few days which sucked and which is why I quit them. But I never felt anything even close to the horrible feeling from nicotine poisoning. Even small excesses of nicotine can make you feel like hell. I can;t think of anything that has ever made me feel as God awful as nicotine.

I've done both, and they were both on par.

[KG4CGC]

I don't think coffee dilates your vessels.

[n2ize]

I've chewed and dipped. Swallowed all the time. Especially in formation. Never carried a cup of any sort.


Yoiu must have an amazing physiology or you must be immune to nicotine. The rest of us would get very sick if we did that. Heck, I've seen baseball players that had to be pulled from the game because they acidentally swallowed their plug or too much of the juices. And these are veteran chewers. If I swallow that stull I'm gonna be sick as heck.



Constantly doing depressants or stimulants is most certainly not good for your ticker. No matter how you look at it.

Not necessarily bad either. Caffeine is a mild stimulant yet the dilation effect helps keep blood pressure for going up too high. Pure opiates (CNS depressants) cause no known physiological harm. Indeed many regular users have lived to an old age and died from something else unrelated. Nicotine is bad because it has that vasoconstrictor effect forcing the heart to have to work harder. Speedballing , mixing heroin, alcohol or tranquilizers with cocaine or speed is particularly dangerous because the coke stimulates the heart and constricts blood vessels forcing the heart to have to work harder to provide needed oxygen. At the same time the depressant prevents the heart from providing the extra needed output and, in some cases (weak heart, pre-exisiting condition) can be disastrous. At the very least a person should alloow one to wear off before taking the other.


Not to mention, I was speaking of all health issues surrounding sustained use of any chemical.
I've done both, and they were both on par.

Sounds like you might have a very high tolerance for nicotine. From my experiences nothing felt more miserable than too much nicotine. Far worst 9for me) than caffiene or anything.

[n2ize]

I don't think coffee dilates your vessels.

You might be right. However, how bad it is overall depends on numerous factors. Obviously a person with uncontrolled high blood pressure should probably not drink coffee. I think the main issue is that you should try not to take anything in excess.

[KG4CGC]

You might be right. However, how bad it is overall depends on numerous factors. Obviously a person with uncontrolled high blood pressure should probably not drink coffee. I think the main issue is that you should try not to take anything in excess.Coffee has been known to restrict blood flow to the hands and feet. (eyes and testicles too)

[n2ize]

Coffee has been known to restrict blood flow to the hands and feet. (eyes and testicles too)

You are correct. was wrong. It is a mild constrictor.

[KG4CGC]

You are correct. was wrong. It is a mild constrictor.
Yeah, I remember people thinking they were having a stroke after eating one too many Vivarin, or even just one. 200mg of caffeine is a lot.
I'll have to look next time I'm at the store. Stackers may have totally taken over the caffeine as a pure stimulant market. They usually mix in herbs and willow bark. Willow bark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicines_in_traditional_Chinese_medicine# Willow_bark) is a raw form of aspirin that is supposed to thin the blood. I've read labels where they also have some mixes with yohimbe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausinystalia_yohimbe).

[n2ize]

Yeah, I remember people thinking they were having a stroke after eating one too many Vivarin, or even just one. 200mg of caffeine is a lot.

I used to take 3 or 4 No-Doz at a time and at first it would produce an intense sense of alertness but later on it made me depressed, extremely anxious and unable to sleep, sometimes for 2 or 3 days. That is why I stopped using it.



I'll have to look next time I'm at the store. Stackers may have totally taken over the caffeine as a pure stimulant market. They usually mix in herbs and willow bark. Willow bark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicines_in_traditional_Chinese_medicine# Willow_bark) is a raw form of aspirin that is supposed to thin the blood. I've read labels where they also have some mixes with yohimbe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausinystalia_yohimbe).

Apparently NoDoz is still available. I wish they would legalize coca tea. Taken as a tea in moderation coca mildly enhances thought, sharpens the mind, wears off quicker and doesn't produce anxiety and jitters hours and hours later. It is nothing like concentrated powder cocaine and crack. The natives of Bolivia and Peru have used it safely in its natural form for centuries. Much like mild opium tea is a mild relaxant and pain reliever and is a far cry from concentrated heroin.

[KC2UGV]

You might be right. However, how bad it is overall depends on numerous factors. Obviously a person with uncontrolled high blood pressure should probably not drink coffee. I think the main issue is that you should try not to take anything in excess.

Yep yep.


Yeah, I remember people thinking they were having a stroke after eating one too many Vivarin, or even just one. 200mg of caffeine is a lot.
I'll have to look next time I'm at the store. Stackers may have totally taken over the caffeine as a pure stimulant market. They usually mix in herbs and willow bark. Willow bark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicines_in_traditional_Chinese_medicine# Willow_bark) is a raw form of aspirin that is supposed to thin the blood. I've read labels where they also have some mixes with yohimbe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausinystalia_yohimbe).

Stackers are useless now. They aren't even that good of a stimulant. They are over-priced caffeine pills.

The aspirin (aka Willow Bark) is a hold over from when ephedra was available OTC. Ephredra-Caffeine-Aspirin (aka ECA Stack) had amazing ability to cause weight loss.

Main reason I think ephedra was pulled from shelves was not the danger to people from ephedra, but rather the almost instant weight loss effect of the ECA stack.

If people aren't obese anymore, a host of health issues go away, thereby removing the need for numerous medications and surgeries; thereby denting pharma's profit line.

[KG4CGC]

Main reason I think ephedra was pulled from shelves was not the danger to people from ephedra, but rather the almost instant weight loss effect of the ECA stack.
Both Ephedra and pseudo-ephedrine are used in the manufacture of meth. Concentrated with the HCL base removed, it made a potent drug that held its own on the street market. Some people don't know the difference between that stuff and real meth as all street speed is now just bathtub, cooked down ephedra/pseudo-ephedra. I say real because years and years ago, the basic formula was different and didn't use ephedra as its base ingredient.

Sudafed is strictly regulated now and some places won't even carry it anymore. Not to mention that you have to find the store manager to ask for it, sign a book with your name, address, DOB, etc and get stared down by the manager and raise suspicion over your purchase because they just KNOW you're a tweeker, filthy drugger, trying to infect their children.

[KC2UGV]

Both Ephedra and pseudo-ephedrine are used in the manufacture of meth. Concentrated with the HCL base removed, it made a potent drug that held its own on the street market. Some people don't know the difference between that stuff and real meth as all street speed is now just bathtub, cooked down ephedra/pseudo-ephedra. I say real because years and years ago, the basic formula was different and didn't use ephedra as its base ingredient.<br>
<br>
Sudafed is strictly regulated now and some places won't even carry it anymore. Not to mention that you have to find the store manager to ask for it, sign a book with your name, address, DOB, etc and get stared down by the manager and raise suspicion over your purchase because they just KNOW you're a tweeker, filthy drugger, trying to infect their children.<br><br>And both have&nbsp;analogs&nbsp;for meth production that are easily available. &nbsp;Not to mention, one can just grow the plants themselves, and have a never-ending supply of ephedra (Mormon Tea).<br><br>The real reason was not dangerous side effects, or illicit usages; but rather an easy to use, OTC available "cure" for obesity.

[n2ize]

What we need is for the politicians and lawmakers to get off everyone's backs. Teach the lawmakers to make something useful, like shoes, or clothes, or music instead of laws.. My vision of paradise is a world with no leaders, politicians or lawmakers.

[W3MIV]

My vision of paradise is a world with no leaders, politicians or lawmakers.

Impossible utopia. Old Marine Corps adage: "Anytime there are two or more people in a room, one of them is in charge." Ugly, but true.

[n2ize]

Sudafed is strictly regulated now and some places won't even carry it anymore. Not to mention that you have to find the store manager to ask for it, sign a book with your name, address, DOB, etc and get stared down by the manager and raise suspicion over your purchase because they just KNOW you're a tweeker, filthy drugger, trying to infect their children.

And as a result you can't get "Actifed" anymore in the USA. At one time it was one of the best antihistamine/decongestants. I and many others used to swear by it. Then the f**king lawmakers came along and put the kabosh on it. For a while they changed the formula to some crappy new formula that didn't do shit. Now its gone. You can still order the original formula from Canada. But no more stopping off at the local drugstore and buying it for seasonal allergy relief. I wish all lawmakers would disappear from the face of the earth. I hate lawmakers. They are the lowest form of life.

[KG4CGC]

And you know, I may well be wrong about Sudafed. I have not looked for it in about 3 or more years. It may be gone.
Last Year, there was the old formula Claratin locked up in the pharmacy.

[K7SGJ]

Doesn't that about figure? There was a time antihistamines and cough medicine (including codeine with terpin hydrate) were available on the drugstore isles, and the rubbers were locked up behind the counter. Times, oh how they have changed.

[n2ize]

Doesn't that about figure? There was a time antihistamines and cough medicine (including codeine with terpin hydrate) were available on the drugstore isles, and the rubbers were locked up behind the counter. Times, oh how they have changed.

it's about the children. Think about the children.

[K7SGJ]

I was a children once, and it was easier to get beer than rubbers. Go figure.

[KC2UGV]

Doesn't that about figure? There was a time antihistamines and cough medicine (including codeine with terpin hydrate) were available on the drugstore isles, and the rubbers were locked up behind the counter. Times, oh how they have changed.

Tylenol with codeine is still available OTC in Canada. Before the draconian border measures, I used to hop over there for doctor appointments, and would pick up a bottle or two.

[n2ize]

Tylenol with codeine is still available OTC in Canada. Before the draconian border measures, I used to hop over there for doctor appointments, and would pick up a bottle or two.

It's so ridiculous that it cannot be available as such here. Codeine has a low addiction potential and, while it can produce some mild euphoria yet even then the addiction potential is extremely low. Plus, in combination with an NSAID the abuse potential drops off significantly.

When i was a kid my Mom used to buy a brand called "Cheracol Cough Syrup with codeine". You would get it right over the counter. Codeine was put of script sometime during the 1960's or 70's. The main rationale , as I understand it, was that heroin addicts sometimes buy it, not as a means of getting high, but in order to lessen the severity of withdrawal symptoms in the event that they cannot get any heroin. Which is a ridiculous reason. If they use it to lessen the withdrawal then that is really a good thing. Milder withdrawal symptoms mean a better chance of kicking the habit and, less of a chance that the person will become desperate and commit a crime to get heroin. If the persons withdrawal symptoms are less severe and more tolerable the less likely they are to resort to desperate measures for a fix. But then one must wonder, do the lawmakers really want a person to kick the habit and/or not commit a crime ?

[KG4CGC]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/001/HANDCHECK_zps9e226d50.png

[NQ6U]

I still miss Albi...

[K0RGR]

What I see says you get up to 18 mg of nicotine per smoke, so you are about 1/3 of the way to dead if you use that level.

[WØTKX]

Nicotine is a plant's own version of an insecticide.

[NQ6U]

Nicotine is a plant's own version of an insecticide.

It's a pretty effective homocide as well.

[WØTKX]

Albi's post and avatar made me smile. :yes:

[KG4CGC]

What I see says you get up to 18 mg of nicotine per smoke, so you are about 1/3 of the way to dead if you use that level.

Not true on dead at that level. Some people vape a 30 all day long. It also depends on your previous smoking level.
Other than that, once you're producing clouds, you usually vape between 3 to 6 mg nic per ml.

[n2ize]

I quit vaping. It just doesn't cut it for me. Lacks the flavor and satisfaction of a cigarette. But on the other hand cigarettes are very unhealthy. So I decided to save money and maybe have an occasional smoke once in a blue moon.

[N2NH]

IF I was smoking (not that I have, having quit decades ago), I'd probably use a hookah.

http://i61.tinypic.com/1z1bvk7.png

[n2ize]

Funny thing is that vaping aggravates my asthma. But tobacco doesn't. Go figure.

[w2amr]

Funny thing is that vaping aggravates my asthma. But tobacco doesn't. Go figure.After many years as a smoker, I ended up with chronic bronchitis. The symptoms improved after I quit, But I will be on medication for the rest of my life, and It won't get any better.

[n2ize]

After many years as a smoker, I ended up with chronic bronchitis. The symptoms improved after I quit, But I will be on medication for the rest of my life, and It won't get any better.

I know. Smoking is bad news. I used to have chronic asthma and I didn't even smoke. I still get mild asthma occasionally. Good thing I only smoke on rare occasions.

[kd6nig]

Funny thing is that vaping aggravates my asthma. But tobacco doesn't. Go figure.

See whats in the liquid. A friend of my wife's tried it and had the same issue, it turned out whatever oil they were using to scent the stuff she was using was something she was allergic to.

She changed to something with a different base in it and has been fine since. I guess they make different kinds/flavors. But you have to watch the ingredients just like you do in food if you have food allergies.

[KG4CGC]

http://www.fryeart.org/technology/aquavaporcig/

[n2ize]

Are there any e-cigarettes that provide real satisfaction on a puff ? When you draw on a real cigarette you feel that satisfied feeling. But I find that "satisfied feeling" is absent in e-cigs. My guess is that the nicotine levels are way to low. Even at 30 mg I couldn't get any real satisfaction out of even a heavy puff. My guess is that you have to up the nicotine content to at least double if not higher.

[KG4CGC]

Are there any e-cigarettes that provide real satisfaction on a puff ? When you draw on a real cigarette you feel that satisfied feeling. But I find that "satisfied feeling" is absent in e-cigs. My guess is that the nicotine levels are way to low. Even at 30 mg I couldn't get any real satisfaction out of even a heavy puff. My guess is that you have to up the nicotine content to at least double if not higher.

That's just you, John. You should probably see a doctor. 24 is too much for MOST people.

[K7SGJ]

Are there any e-cigarettes that provide real satisfaction on a puff ? When you draw on a real cigarette you feel that satisfied feeling. But I find that "satisfied feeling" is absent in e-cigs. My guess is that the nicotine levels are way to low. Even at 30 mg I couldn't get any real satisfaction out of even a heavy puff. My guess is that you have to up the nicotine content to at least double if not higher.


Have you tried vaping model airplane glue in an old sock?

[n2ize]

That's just you, John. You should probably see a doctor. 24 is too much for MOST people.

For some reason I just don't get the same satisfaction (high) from a vaping puff as I would get from a cigarette puff. A cigarette puff just seems to give much more satisfaction.

[n2ize]

A coworker of mine has been smoking Pall Mall non filters since she was 10. That is 50 years of steady smoking. She agrees that ecigsdon't have the same satisfaction. But she has switch ed to.vaping and only 3 cigarettes per day as her doctor said quit now or else.

[KG4CGC]

For some reason I just don't get the same satisfaction (high) from a vaping puff as I would get from a cigarette puff. A cigarette puff just seems to give much more satisfaction.

And you also know that the additives in cigarettes make the nicotine hit your brain harder and faster. In essence, making cigarettes akin to crack cocaine.

[w6tmi]

Have you tried vaping model airplane glue in an old sock?

I picked a bad week to stop vaping model airplane glue.

[n2ize]

And you also know that the additives in cigarettes make the nicotine hit your brain harder and faster. In essence, making cigarettes akin to crack cocaine.

Well maybe that is it. But fortunately I don't smoke. Yes I enjoy it but the negative aspects keep me smoke free, except for rare occaisions past. However I have noticed that regular cigs have a hard hit where as vaping is rather mild.

[n2ize]

And you also know that the additives in cigarettes make the nicotine hit your brain harder and faster. In essence, making cigarettes akin to crack cocaine.

I aklso read somewhere that that tobacco "rush" (aka satisfaction) from cigarettes may have something to do with other alkaloids in the plant. I read something somewhere about whole tobacco alkaloid liquids. Meanwhile my guess is that the major cigareete companies want to crush the vaping industry so they can take over. Then they'll offer those "additives" to make the smoke (vapor) seem to hit harder , and faster. Anything to wipe out the competition and keep em coming back for more. $$$

[KG4CGC]

I aklso read somewhere that that tobacco "rush" (aka satisfaction) from cigarettes may have something to do with other alkaloids in the plant. I read something somewhere about whole tobacco alkaloid liquids. Meanwhile my guess is that the major cigareete companies want to crush the vaping industry so they can take over. Then they'll offer those "additives" to make the smoke (vapor) seem to hit harder , and faster. Anything to wipe out the competition and keep em coming back for more. $$$

That's a great idea, John.

[KG4CGC]

Well maybe that is it. But fortunately I don't smoke. Yes I enjoy it but the negative aspects keep me smoke free, except for rare occaisions past. However I have noticed that regular cigs have a hard hit where as vaping is rather mild.

Yeah, John. You're just hardcore. Too cool for school.

[n2ize]

Yeah, John. You're just hardcore. Too cool for school.

If the vaping industry wants to keep up with, or wipe out ther regular cigarette industry they are going to have to come up with something that provides the same satisfaction that smokers are accustomed to.

[K7SGJ]

Maybe if they put a boatload of carcinogens in the liquid, that would get you the rush. Who knows? Lamont Cranston, probably.

[KG4CGC]

If the vaping industry wants to keep up with, or wipe out ther regular cigarette industry they are going to have to come up with something that provides the same satisfaction that smokers are accustomed to.

Yeah. Vaping will never be able to compete. Vapers should just go back to smoking.

[n2ize]

Why would someone smoke cigarettes in the first place if they aren't looking for the "satisfaction". If a person is smoking just for flavor and aroma then they would be better to chose a pipe or quality cigars. The idea of cigarettes is that you puff the smoke into the lungs and retain it there so it produces a definite strong buzz (satisfaction) on every puff. Is it a healthy thing to do ? Hell No !! Which is why I can't understand why anyone would chose to smoke cigarettes in the first place unless they are looking for that intense rush of satisfaction each time they puff. Otherwise it's unhealthy as all heck.

[n2ize]

Maybe if they put a boatload of carcinogens in the liquid, that would get you the rush. Who knows? Lamont Cranston, probably.

I read somewhere that they have full tobacco plant alkaloid e-liquids, In other words not just nicotine but the other alkaloids found in the plant as well.

[K7SGJ]

I read somewhere that they have full tobacco plant alkaloid e-liquids, In other words not just nicotine but the other alkaloids found in the plant as well.

It really wouldn't surprise me. When I used to smoke, I always wondered if it was just the paper they were rolled in that was killing me.

[KG4CGC]

Why would someone smoke cigarettes in the first place if they aren't looking for the "satisfaction". If a person is smoking just for flavor and aroma then they would be better to chose a pipe or quality cigars. The idea of cigarettes is that you puff the smoke into the lungs and retain it there so it produces a definite strong buzz (satisfaction) on every puff. Is it a healthy thing to do ? Hell No !! Which is why I can't understand why anyone would chose to smoke cigarettes in the first place unless they are looking for that intense rush of satisfaction each time they puff. Otherwise it's unhealthy as all heck.

Yeah, all that.

[n2ize]

That's just you, John. You should probably see a doctor. 24 is too much for MOST people.

One problem might be that I was vaping too hard. To the point where it irritated my throat, much the same way that heavy dragging on cigarettes will irritate ones throat. This past weekend a vaper showed me that you puff light and roll the vapor around in the front of your mouth (similar to a pipe) and you inhale (if you chose) after the vapor has cooled and mellowed. Big difference.