Hot water pre heater

[kc7jty]

Anyone have experience with one of these type water heaters:
http://www.faucetdirect.com/bosch-gl2-5-ariston-point-of-use-electric-water-heater-2-5-gallon/p308112

(http://www.faucetdirect.com/bosch-gl2-5-ariston-point-of-use-electric-water-heater-2-5-gallon/p308112)The reviews are mixed. I have to wait 60 seconds to get hot water at my kitchen sink.
If I get one I'll have to rewire the garbage disposer and add a switch on the front wood panel between the sink and the under the sink doors.

In the winter here the hot water is so cold for one minute it makes the marrow in your bones ache.

(the small 2.5 gallon is the only one that will fit under my sink, this site's reviews praise it. I found some reviews last night that were quite bitchy about the problems some supposedly encountered.)

[KG4CGC]

Do you use gas or electric?

[KG4CGC]

Solar preheater. http://www.dulley.com/docs/f695.htm

If you have gas, that is the way to go. Tankless water heaters can be used to preheat your water.

[NA4BH]

I've heard the gas ones are pretty good.

[kc7jty]

No gas here, 'cept the op.

This is NOT a tankless heater, the tankless electric 110v models only produce .5 gpm. My aerator faucet produces 1.5 gpm.

[KG4CGC]

No gas here, 'cept the op.

This is NOT a tankless heater, the tankless electric 110v models only produce .5 gpm. My aerator faucet produces 1.5 gpm.
You could run 2 water heaters. Set the first one to 100 to 110 degrees and the second one to regular temp wherever you might keep that. Better than having 40 degree water hitting your wh in the winter.
Anyone else heard of this?

[kc7jty]

that's this deal, 2.5 gals of hot water right under the sink. by time the regular hot water gets there 1.5 gals of the 2.5 will be used up.
I fear the hot & cold water separation in the mini tank won't be very efficient though.
scenario:
Room temp water for 2 seconds, hot water for 30 seconds, dropping down to about 85 degrees for the next 30 seconds, rising back to hot over the next 60 seconds.

[kf0rt]

We've had these before:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100090818/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

This isn't quite the same thing (but same idea). This has a separate faucet and only holds 1/3 gallon. They work very well if you just need a little hot water, but probably not too useful if you need to fill a sink. Great for instant coffee and that sort of thing. Downside is they don't last very long. We've had two and I don't think either one lasted 2 years.

[KG4CGC]

I've always felt that in climates above the northern area of Florida needed a little boost to the HWH in the Winter months. The tankless WH as a stand alone unit isn't the best idea for what I'm talking about and it only works well when run with gas. Is there even an electric model?

A pair of WH of the same size could work more efficiently (???) if the job of the first one is simply handling 40 degree water and bringing it up to 100 to 110. The second one would not work nearly as hard getting the temp up to ... whatever. We don't set ours high to begin with so, what can I say. Some people want their hot water to peel their skin off right out of the tap.

[kc7jty]

I'm beginning to think one of the complaints I read about the thing I'm interested in is valid, especially for me with the hyper cold water in the hot water line in winter.
The complaint that the water temp coming out of the thing is "all over the place".

[W3MIV]

I cannot understand why the temperature of the water from the HWH to the tap would be forty or so degrees. If they run through an open crawl space beneath the floor of the house, they should be sufficiently insulated to maintain a higher temperature than forty, even if that is the temperature of the water as it comes up from beneath the freeze line. I would check, and if necessary, swath them with heavy foam jackets.

[kc7jty]

This modern house has a copper manifold just above the main water shut off valve that is just above floor level in the cupboard closet next to the kitchen. All water lines come off this manifold (no water line forks off another line after the manifold) All water lines are plastic flexible hose that immediately return to below the floor after coming off the manifold. They are either wrapped in fiberglass or hug the floor bottom with fiberglass insulation between them and the crawl space.

The crawl space is vented with small flap doors in wells in 6 places that must be opened in summer to reduce moisture build up and closed in winter to retain heat and shut out snow.

No water lines traverse horizontally through the walls.

[KG4CGC]

40 degrees is the worst case scenario at my house on the coldest of cold nights. The line is insulated but there is a run of about 2 feet, albeit insulated, that is exposed to the ambient temps outdoors. last Winter was pretty bad even in this latitude as there were times when some of the water lines got slushy.

[kc7jty]

20 below not uncommon here. water lines are 5 foot minimum under ground.

[KG4CGC]

dammit! No! Last year it got down to 8 degrees. 40 degree water through the pipes and they're 18 inches under ground.
Crap. So, it doesn't take much for it to go lower.

[NQ6U]

Cold isn't an issue here, where in only rarely drops below freezing and even then only for a short time, but water conservation is. That's why it bugs the shit out of me that the people who built this house put the water heater out in the detached garage, about 30 feet from the kitchen sink and used 3/4" copper pipe for the run. It takes running the water for a full minute before it get hot.

[kc7jty]

Do you have room in the laundry for a WH?

Izzat antenna hardware I see?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=8122+Lincoln+St+Lemon+Grove,+CA+91945&hl=en&ll=32.738294,-117.02457&spn=0.00273,0.007328&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.95363,86.572266&vpsrc=6&hnear=8122+Lincoln+St,+Lemon+Grove,+California+919 45&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=32.738296,-117.024676&panoid=LL12-D0lSs6rhtgM_xD_0Q&cbp=12,330.56,,0,0

[KG4CGC]

Seen a few old, pre 30s and 40s houses with added out buildings containing water heaters. Just saying.

[ab1ga]

Is the water temperature always a problem, or only in the morning? Do use hot water for heating as well, or a hot air furnace?

Even though you live in a northern climate, forty degree water out of the hot water heater is rather extraordinary. The PEX tubing used in your plumbing actually loses less heat than equivalently sized copper, so if you're cooling off that much I'd try the following:

- Insulate the piping with spilt-tubing foam rather than fiberglass. Fiberglass insulation is popular because of relative low cost and supposed ease of installation, but the ugly truth is that unless installation is near perfect its insulating qualities leave much to be desired. The trick with the split tubing is to cover -everything-, even the bends; think parallel resistances.

- Check the water heater output line to make sure it has a loop in it. That "pigtail" is designed to prevent thermal siphoning, basically convection of hot water out of the heater, cooling along the piping walls, and return down the center of the pipe. Such an accidental heat pipe can cause a lot of heat loss overnight.

- If you're willing to wait for hot water, but just can't stand the idea of getting splashed by cold water, you might want to look into hot water recirculators. They install under the sink, and first thing in the morning you press a magic button on the wall. The pump recirculates the hot water back to the cold water side of the water heater, and the water in the heater goes to the sink. When the water is hot enough, a magic light comes on and you're good to go.

- Longer term, you may want to have a talk with your building inspector. Lots of building codes around the country call out the vent window requirement, but current thinking is to treat crawl spaces like conditioned space using insulation, vapor handling, etc. Sometimes this can run into money, but it can pay back not only in energy cost savings overall, but in improved home comfort and reduced risk of mold buildup.

73 and good luck,

[kc7jty]

I think I'll just endure the issue. It takes about 2 hours for "hot" water that has purged the line to get cold in winter. Doesn't matter the time of day. I'll just run the hot water for 60 seconds before filling a bowl or pot to hand wash the dishes.
I have noticed the plastic line is not/minimally covered by the fiberglass where it sags down between supports. Fully encasing the hot line would improve things much I'm sure. Perhaps next summer I'll asses the situation.

[kf0rt]

Meh... Be a man and deal.

There are solutions to this, but they're expensive and it all boils down to economics. I'd need to install two water heaters for instant gratification here, and water is still pretty cheap.

Turn the shower on and go take a dump. When you're done, the water's hot.

Easy peasy.

[W3MIV]

Meh... Be a man and deal.

There are solutions to this, but they're expensive and it all boils down to economics. I'd need to install two water heaters for instant gratification here, and water is still pretty cheap.

Turn the shower on and go take a dump. When you're done, the water's hot.

Easy peasy.


+1000000

[kc7jty]

It takes me one minute to dump, and 3 to clean up.

[KG4CGC]

Jebus!

[kf0rt]

It takes me one minute to dump, and 3 to clean up.

TMI.

Sucks to get old; that much I DO know.

[ab1ga]

It takes me one minute to dump, and 3 to clean up.

Sounds like you need to run that preheater to a second, strategically located shower head...

[WØTKX]

I keep my place pretty damn cold and it takes about 2 minutes to stabilize the shower temp in the winter.


However, one need not man up. All it requires is a cultural shift, and appropriate funds...


Cultural Shift #1

http://youtu.be/Rvb3qUtRFxk (http://youtu.be/Rvb3qUtRFxk)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvb3qUtRFxk



Cultural Shift #2

http://images.gizmag.com/hero/toto-14.jpg

:mrgreen:

[kc7jty]

In Sept the shower temp is fine with the single control handle at the 1:00 position. In early March it has to be at the 10:00 position. I'm POSITIVE the cold water coming in from the street is in the 30s. Sometimes when I turn the stop valve back on at the shower head after lathering up it gets nuts cold for a second or two. I can feel every drop that gets past my hands held up to block the source, and sometimes I think I won't last the 2 seconds.

[KG4CGC]

If I haven't said it before, move South.

[kc7jty]

Can't handle that summer humidity.

[KG4CGC]

No humidity in San Diego.

[kc7jty]

No humidity in San Diego.
Relatively true but the place is just loaded with Californians.

[W3MIV]

Relatively true but the place is just loaded with Californians.

I would prefer the humidity. ;)


'Course, coming from the fringes of the Chesapeake, humidity is nothing much more than the source of an argument ("It's the heat. No, it's the humidity. No, you idiot, it's the heat!" and so on...).

[NQ6U]

No humidity in San Diego.

Not most of the time, no. But three or four times each summer the outer fringes of an eastern Pacific hurricane pass through here and it gets pretty miserable. No A/C on the Islets of Langerhans either.