Water heater experts...?

[kf0rt]

Every night for the last week or so, the water heater here starts making a loud humming/buzzing noise. Happens every night at 9 PM -- you could set your watch to it. This doesn't seem to correspond to anything going on with water usage here. Drained and flushed it a few days ago -- no change. The vibration seems to be concentrated on or near the cold water inlet pipe -- that is, if you touch it, the vibration is real strong compared to the hot pipe. Heater is 10 years old. Any ideas?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eao70QdeUQc

[W3MIV]

We have been having the same problem at the gun club. We have several plumbers as members, but no one has yet come up with an explanation that I know of. We checked to see if it were the relief valve opening slightly and stuttering, but that does not seem to be the case. If any of our "experts" comes up with an answer -- or a solution -- I shall post it or PM you.

[N8YX]

Is your water heater an "energy conserving" type - and thus can be programmed or remotely controlled to go into power-saving mode?

[K7SGJ]

Can you check with neighbors to see if they are experiencing something similar? It might be a large pressure change from the water company. They might be working on the system during low demand time.

When it happens next time, try shutting off the supply valve that feeds the house. That way you'll be able to narrow it down to internal or external.

[kf0rt]

Is your water heater an "energy conserving" type - and thus can be programmed or remotely controlled to go into power-saving mode?

Nope -- just a plain Jane gas heater.

[kf0rt]

Can you check with neighbors to see if they are experiencing something similar? It might be a large pressure change from the water company. They might be working on the system during low demand time.

When it happens next time, try shutting off the supply valve that feeds the house. That way you'll be able to narrow it down to internal or external.

Now, there's a thought! Thanks - will ask around.

[kf0rt]

We have been having the same problem at the gun club. We have several plumbers as members, but no one has yet come up with an explanation that I know of. We checked to see if it were the relief valve opening slightly and stuttering, but that does not seem to be the case. If any of our "experts" comes up with an answer -- or a solution -- I shall post it or PM you.

Strange stuff -- does it happen every day at the same time there, too?

[W3MIV]

Strange stuff -- does it happen every day at the same time there, too?

Can't say. We are only in the clubhouse during events and during practice hours on Weds and Sun of each week. When I heard it, it was on a Sunday mid-morning while I was manning the kitchen during a league shoot. At first I thought it was the new refrigerator -- we had just bought a new restaurant-sized refrigerator during the past year -- and I was about to have a fit thinking it was the compressor going bananas. One of our retired plumbers -- our egg cook ;) -- pointed out that it was the w/h just on the other side of the wall behind the fridge. We all went and gawked, feeling the pipes -- yup, heavy vibration from within -- and someone started a discussion about anodes, which did not seem to fit the symptoms (but I am no plumber --> I keep his number in my wallet, though ;) ).

Next time I am out at the club, I will try to remember to ax someone if any resolution was found. I confess, were it my w/h, I would be dialing the number I have in my wallet, since I am not a big DIY guy when it comes to pipes (or anything more than three or four feet in elevation ABSL).

Jeebus! This post is as long as one of IZE's.

[WØTKX]

Water pressure changes from the supply side will make pipes knock like crazy. This has been going on at work for quite a while. One of the buildings will get up to almost 300 PSI at times. The city that does that to us is getting regular (and large bills) from us as we keep repairing the problems that occur.

We are at the "end of the line", it was overbuilt to add enough pressure for a couple of housing developments that never got built because of the recession. Instead of fixing the problem upstream, the solution is to come out and dump water from fire hydrants on a regular basis. But they forget to come out and check, and shit blows up... usually the check valves for our fire control sprinklers.

This same city is represented on our board of directors. Plenty of drama there, but they are liable, and it's locked in... won't be changed, they must pay to fix it.

Luckily, the building this happens to is mostly empty, as we went fully automated. No more cash, no more toll booth personnel.

[NQ6U]

It's them danged extraterrestrials agin. They's tryin' t' communicate with us through our water heaters. Git yer tin foil hats ready, they's gonna be here any time now.

[n2ize]

Is their a circulator pump on that thing ? Sounds like a bad pump.

[kf0rt]

Is their a circulator pump on that thing ? Sounds like a bad pump.

Nope. It's as generic as they come. Installed it m'self in 2001. And looking around, I notice these things have gone high-tech. A bunch of the gas water heaters these days require 110 AC to run their computers. :nuts:

[kf0rt]

It's them danged extraterrestrials agin. They's tryin' t' communicate with us through our water heaters. Git yer tin foil hats ready, they's gonna be here any time now.

Will a new sacrificial anode fix that?

[NQ6U]

Will a new sacrificial anode fix that?

Only if you throw it into the Island volcano.

[n2ize]

Nope. It's as generic as they come. Installed it m'self in 2001. And looking around, I notice these things have gone high-tech. A bunch of the gas water heaters these days require 110 AC to run their computers. :nuts:

I installed a new furnace last winter. The furnace provides steam for heating and the tank (water heater) is separate from the furnace (indirectly heated) by water or steam heated by the furnace and piped through the tanks heat transfer unit via a circulating pump. Not only does this thing have a lot of features my old furnace didn't have, such as automatic flue damper so that when the fire is out the flue closes to keep in heat but it also has a lot of valves, safety valves, electronic controls, and led's that blink on and off depending what the system is doing. But the main difference is that is as a computer inside and a display screen and front panel interface. You can set your temps, operation parameters, energy save features and lots more. Plus it has self diagnostics and monitoring, it will troubleshoot itself and/or notify you if anything is or has gone wrong. It's quite an amazing system.

It looks like you have a direct fired water heater. They are generally much simpler but they too are becoming more and more computerized. How do you get heat ? Do you have a separate furnace for that ?

[kf0rt]

Yeah, the heat's separate here. Pretty simple forced-air gas furnace that has two settings: pilot and full-bore. The thermostat just turns it on and off. Not tied to the water heater at all except that they're right next to each other. The furnace (I'm sure) is original -- 37 years old. I'm thinking about having that replaced for something that might be a bit more energy efficient.

If this water heater is on it's way out, it'd be a good time for a 2-in-1 deal maybe. :)

[W3MIV]

The new gas furnaces are so damned efficient that my Trane has a plastic flue pipe. The system uses standard PVC waste pipe (3" sched 40) directly from the firebox to the outside, and a same-sized inlet for cold air to the firebox.

[kf0rt]

I'm just hoping to see a noticeable difference in the gas bill. And maybe a nice rebate from a big private company who wants new energy so bad that they'll pay me to use less of their product.

[K7SGJ]

I'm just hoping to see a noticeable difference in the gas bill. And maybe a nice rebate from a big private company who wants new energy so bad that they'll pay me to use less of their product.

The Tea Party Election Idea Committee is thataway >>>>>>>>

[kf0rt]

The Tea Party Election Idea Committee is thataway >>>>>>>>

A hunnert and twenny bucks! :rofl:
http://xcelenergy.com/Save_Money_&_Energy/For_Your_Home/Heating_&_Cooling/Heating_Rebates_-_CO

[N7RJD]

The new gas furnaces are so damned efficient that my Trane has a plastic flue pipe. The system uses standard PVC waste pipe (3" sched 40) directly from the firebox to the outside, and a same-sized inlet for cold air to the firebox.

That and the vented air is below 105 degrees and won't burn your hand if you hold it right over the pipe. I have the same thing with a dual stage 91% efficient unit. If the thing ever does have a problem it will cost me an arm and a leg to get it fixed but so far it's been a matter of replacing a low current blade fuse on the control board once in awhile. The ignitor wholesales for more than I want to pay so I hope it doesn't go out but it sure has been nice not paying to keep a pilot lit.

Every time I go into Auto Zone to pick up fuzes they always ask me "What are you working on today?" A question that I soon make them regret when I rattle off the brand and model of the furnace and they have no idea what I am talking about.

[n2ize]

The new gas furnaces are so damned efficient that my Trane has a plastic flue pipe. The system uses standard PVC waste pipe (3" sched 40) directly from the firebox to the outside, and a same-sized inlet for cold air to the firebox.

Does the flue go up into a chimney on the roof or, does it go out the side of the house. I was thinking of getting one of those 95% efficient ones and I was told they don;t use the chimney. The pipe exhausts right out the side of the building so that they would have had to make a hole in the wall and brick off a nearby window because regulations state that the vent must be a certain distance away from any windows (carbon monoxide). I didn't like the idea of making a hole in the side of the building and bricking off a window and sealing off the chimney. So, I opted to stick with the chimney and got an 85% efficient one instead. Its still much more efficient than the old burner. Only difference is it's 10% less efficient and the exhaust goes right up the flue and into the old chimney on the roof and out into the atmosphere.

[KG4CGC]

Casper problem. I used to be acutely sensitive to the presence of water. A human divining rod if you will. I could even hear water traffic through the kitchen spigot just standing near it.
... I think there's too much damn noise in my head these days.

[NQ6U]

I think there's too much damn noise in my head these days.

That's just your neighbor's Labrador retriever. Pay him no mind.

[K7SGJ]

That's just your neighbor's Labrador retriever. Pay him no mind.

I think the water traffic he hears is the Labrador. Probally ought to check his shoe.

[ab1ga]

Can you check with neighbors to see if they are experiencing something similar? It might be a large pressure change from the water company. They might be working on the system during low demand time.

When it happens next time, try shutting off the supply valve that feeds the house. That way you'll be able to narrow it down to internal or external.

I'd say you've hit on it. One thing we were taught in chemistry lab was that water main pressure increases in the evening as demand goes down; at our location it was about 8pm. If you didn't tie down the output hose on the condensers, the spike in water pressure could flip the tubing out of the sink drain and on to the floor. Messy, messy.

[W3MIV]

Does the flue go up into a chimney on the roof or, does it go out the side of the house.


Both exhaust and intake lines are routed to the nearest wall.

[n2ize]

Both exhaust and intake lines are routed to the nearest wall.

Yeah. ok... you have a ultra high efficiency unit. Did you have to close off any nearby windows ? As I mentioned above I was thinking of going that route but I opted for a conventional system in which air intake is direct from surrounding the atmosphere and exhaust is the regular chimney. If I went with the ultra efficiency I'd have had to brick off a window.

[W3MIV]

I think the code requires four feet from a window.

[NQ6U]

I think the code requires four feet from a window.

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/42-16082553.jpg?size=67&uid=48abf8a4-f4d8-47b6-9a3a-17ade17dac37

[K7SGJ]

^ FTW

[NA4BH]

I think the code requires four feet from a window.

Four feet from a window

http://x0e.xanga.com/7cee0664d4c34275298454/z219419985.jpg

[K7SGJ]

^ 2nd place

[W1GUH]

Casper problem. I used to be acutely sensitive to the presence of water. A human divining rod if you will. I could even hear water traffic through the kitchen spigot just standing near it.
... I think there's too much damn noise in my head these days.

I see you've been neglecting to eat your roast beef and wear your mittens again!

(Buncha internetz to whoever gets the reference.)

[kf0rt]

Can you check with neighbors to see if they are experiencing something similar? It might be a large pressure change from the water company. They might be working on the system during low demand time.

When it happens next time, try shutting off the supply valve that feeds the house. That way you'll be able to narrow it down to internal or external.

I'm going to roll with this... It appears that the problem stopped as fast as it started and without any interference from moi. Three nights now with no noise.

[K7SGJ]

Works like that for the dentist, too.

[n2ize]

I'm going to roll with this... It appears that the problem stopped as fast as it started and without any interference from moi. Three nights now with no noise.

Your supply was resonating at a given point and setting up vibrations. Could have been due to any number of factors... a groundhog digging out some dirt around the pipe that would normally dampen vibrations. Then the same groundhog fills it in and viola'... no more vibrations.

[kf0rt]

Whatever it was, it seems to be gone now...

[NQ6U]

Whatever it was, it seems to be gone now...

The extraterrestrials are done sending their warning to humanity but you weren't able to decode it so there's nothing we can do to stop today's scheduled destruction of Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass.

[kf0rt]

The extraterrestrials are done sending their warning to humanity but you weren't able to decode it so there's nothing we can do to stop today's scheduled destruction of Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

[W3MIV]

The extraterrestrials are done sending their warning to humanity but you weren't able to decode it so there's nothing we can do to stop today's scheduled destruction of Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass.

They were planning an underpass, but finally decided that we can't get any lower than we are.