Blocking cell signals

[K4WGE]

My daughter told me this afternoon that her high school blocks cell phones during the school day. I have not confirmed that it actually does, but would that not be in violation of FCC regs? Just asking for opinions on that question, not whether or not it might be a good policy for the school, or whether the students' "rights" are being violated.

[X-Rated]

It could depend on how they block the signals. If they have a Faraday shield around the school, there is little that the FCC can do about that.

[KG4CGC]

It could depend on how they block the signals. If they have a Faraday shield around the school, there is little that the FCC can do about that.
Correct. Some buildings are natural shields.
However, if they are using active blocking methods, that's a big no no. Even prisons are not allowed to do that because they could block legitimate signals.
If the school is making the claim that they are indeed blocking signals when it's just a matter of circumstance, that could also be a violation of some type that could lead to correctional measure be taken on the administration.

[ki4itv]

...and if they ever find themselves in a situational emergency (ex. Columbine), they'll regret ever doing so. I defy anyone to remember where and how to shut it down when the chaos starts or in time to get necessary help. They'll wish they never implemented that stupid and illegal idea.

[n2ize]

I have yet to see too many buildings that naturally block cell signals all that well. A few weeks ago I was walking through a section of a hospital hallway that was designated as a fallout shelter and I still had a cell signal. Weak but still usable. Building in Manhattan where I used to work had a "computer research lab" in what was once a designated basement underground fallout shelter. Absolutely no cell signals or any other signals from the outside world permeated that space. Probably would offer great gamma ray protection down there as well.

If the school is deliberately jamming cell sigs via some kind of deliberate jammer then they're probably in violation. If somehow the building naturally blocks the sigs then maybe not

[W1GUH]

I had a hat blocked once.

[NA4BH]

I had a hat blocked once.

Did it hurt?

[K7SGJ]

I had a hat blocked once.

Me too. Next time I'll take it off first.

[K4WGE]

OK, got 5 helpful replies before the comedy routines. Not bad.

The reminder about Columbine is disturbing.

I don't think a Faraday cage is in place; calls are blocked only during school hours.

[n2ize]

BTW, if the school building (for some strange reason like the school is shielded or deep underground) naturally blocks cell sigs it would probably also block police, fire, ems as well... NOT GOOD. But if they are selectively jamming then its more than likely against the law. In order to stop kids from using cell phones the principal probably bought an illegal cell phone jammer off Deal Extreme or some other Chinese distributor. From ,y experiences principals tend to be sort of clueless and dumb. Inform the principal that you will notify the FCC and he'll probably stop. If not then notify the FCC.

[K7SGJ]

OK, got 5 helpful replies before the comedy routines. Not bad.

The reminder about Columbine is disturbing.

I don't think a Faraday cage is in place; calls are blocked only during school hours.

Since they are only blocked during school hours, it would appear they are "selectively" blocking. As stated earlier, the FCC should take a very dim view on this practice. Remember all the BS when BART turned off their repeaters in Frisco? Although that was a little different, in that they owned the repeaters, and were possibly just on the legal side, they did take a lot of heat. They weren't blocking, just not providing service that linked back to the cell providers. In your case, a note to the FCC and a CC to the principal (or visa versa) should get some action, other than getting your kids expelled. Some principals can be, well, you know.

[WØTKX]

BART did get permission from a regional authority, but they may have overstepped their jurisdiction. Free speech is one issue, the FCC has laws against jamming any radio signals, and the carriers themselves have potential issues as it's "private" spectrum. Expect new laws and precedents, and expect this to become legal in certain places.

[NQ6U]

OK, got 5 helpful replies before the comedy routines. Not bad.

Especially here on the Island. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your waitress.


I don't think a Faraday cage is in place; calls are blocked only during school hours.

Then it's in violation of FCC regs. The FCC views that as willful interference with a legal transmission.

[W3WN]

My daughter told me this afternoon that her high school blocks cell phones during the school day. I have not confirmed that it actually does, but would that not be in violation of FCC regs? Just asking for opinions on that question, not whether or not it might be a good policy for the school, or whether the students' "rights" are being violated.If it's a passive system, such as a Faraday cage (in other words, the whole building is shielded due to it's construction), it's not a violation of the regs.

If they school has bought a jamming device, then it is almost certainly in violation of FCC rules, as a jamming device is an intentional interference radiator. And the FCC will crack down on them, once it's been reported and verified.

[W3WN]

...and I see I was late to the party once again.

If they're actively jamming cell phones during the school day, contact the ACLU -- or a slick lawyer looking for publicity. Until and unless the laws are changed, jamming of this alleged nature is illegal. Period.

[n2ize]

If it's a passive system, such as a Faraday cage (in other words, the whole building is shielded due to it's construction), it's not a violation of the regs.

I would highly doubt that the building acts as a Faraday cage by its nature or by design. If so it would also block police, fire, emergency signals. Not a good way to deliberately design a school. besides, I have yet to see any such places except for some deep basements and tunnels.



If they school has bought a jamming device, then it is almost certainly in violation of FCC rules, as a jamming device is an intentional interference radiator. And the FCC will crack down on them, once it's been reported and verified.

Most likely the principal doesn't want kids using cell phones so he/she hopped onto some Chinese website and bought a jammer. Principal's are generally arrogant, clueless idiots.

[kc7jty]

a potential columbine won't be able to get any useful info from the students.

[ki4itv]

a potential columbine won't be able to get any useful info from the students.
Maybe the Virginia Tech incident would be a better example. Didn't mean to come off so morbid right out of the gate.

[KK4AMI]

They make jammers that will still respond to 911. Plus they can program your phone to shut up or not take pictures through its vulnerable and unregulated Blue Tooth or WiFi connection!

http://www.4bcj.com/post/2009/03/25/Safe-And-Legal-Alternative-To-A-Cell-Phone-Jammer.aspx

[w0aew]

... or, maybe your daughter's mistaken.

[KC2UGV]

I have yet to see too many buildings that naturally block cell signals all that well. A few weeks ago I was walking through a section of a hospital hallway that was designated as a fallout shelter and I still had a cell signal. Weak but still usable. Building in Manhattan where I used to work had a "computer research lab" in what was once a designated basement underground fallout shelter. Absolutely no cell signals or any other signals from the outside world permeated that space. Probably would offer great gamma ray protection down there as well.

If the school is deliberately jamming cell sigs via some kind of deliberate jammer then they're probably in violation. If somehow the building naturally blocks the sigs then maybe not

Any building that uses screened mesh under the plasterboard (Common, actually) will block the signals rather well.

[K4WGE]

... or, maybe your daughter's mistaken.

Maybe she is. I am going to ask the SRO (sheriff's deputy at the school) about it this afternoon. He's always talking on his cellphone just before school lets out.

[X-Rated]

The concept of a Faraday shield working is contingent on the cell towers being out a ways from the school. One place I worked, I had a cell tower right outside the building. I mean the tower was inches from the external wall of the building. I could use my cell inside the Faraday cage. Others who had other service from a half mile out or so could not use their cell phones in the cage.

Also, I have used cell phones in subway tunnels and other underground settings. But the cell company installed systems in the underground to assure their users could use the service there.

[n2ize]

Any building that uses screened mesh under the plasterboard (Common, actually) will block the signals rather well.

It depends. The screen mesh will not stop all signals from passing in/out of the building. Like I said earlier , I have used my cell phone in windowless fallout shelter zones. Signal was weak but entirely usable. Also, most schools have windows. So even if the signal can't penetrate the wall sufficiently it can find a path via the window, doors, etc.

[K4WGE]

... or, maybe your daughter's mistaken.

Apparently she got bad information from another student. The SRO told me today the school does not block students' phones, but he said reception in the building is not good.

However, from a couple of years ago:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008831246_apwaschoolcelljammer.html

[NQ6U]

Why resort to jamming at all?

At the school my grandkids attend, there's a very simple policy: if a student is caught with a cellular phone out of his or her backpack during normal school hours, it's taken away and the kid is given a chit to be used to reclaim it at the end of the day. They tell me that in less than a week, phone use ceased completely. This cost the school nothing to implement and has no legal or safety repercussions.

[KG4CGC]

Why resort to jamming at all?

At the school my grandkids attend, there's a very simple policy: if a student is caught with a cellular phone out of his or her backpack during normal school hours, it's taken away and the kid is given a chit to be used to reclaim it at the end of the day. They tell me that in less than a week, phone use ceased completely. This cost the school nothing to implement and has no legal or safety repercussions.
That makes perfect sense but like when I was in HS, our head administrator was mired in the nazi way of doing things and playing undercover cop. Things like planting drugs in the areas where minority kids hung out.

[X-Rated]

That makes perfect sense but like when I was in HS, our head administrator was mired in the nazi way of doing things and playing undercover cop. Things like planting drugs in the areas where minority kids hung out.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Everyone knows minority kids are all into drugs.

[KG4CGC]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Everyone knows minority kids are all into drugs. I have spoken of this before. When he was vice principle at another HS, he knocked up a student, during school hours no less AND HE GOT A FREAKING PROMOTION FOR IT! I don't think such a man is qualified to speak on what is appropriate behavior during school hours.

[n2ize]

School Principals are inherently evil.

[N7YA]

A lot of principles are into drugs too!


(are we cleared to start the comedy routines yet?)

[X-Rated]

Just what is the principle behind having a principal?

[w0aew]

Just what is the principle behind having a principal?

Depends on whose behind the principal's behind.

[X-Rated]

Depends on whose behind the principal's behind.

If the principal so chooses, are you saying that she could give her prince a pull?

[W7XF]

Another thing that could be happening is that the local school district/municipal authorities are ordering the cellular companies to turn off/restrict the cell towers in range of the school in question. (Restrict = 911 only) That is done in a city about 40 mi N of me...

[W3WN]

Another thing that could be happening is that the local school district/municipal authorities are ordering the cellular companies to turn off/restrict the cell towers in range of the school in question. (Restrict = 911 only) That is done in a city about 40 mi N of me...Order, hmmm? I wonder if the local authorities actual have the, er, authority to issue said order. (Request? Certainly, but order?)

[N2NH]

Because of the nature of this city, with all the tall steel buildings, there are many buildings where you can't even get one bar. Heck, there are streets where you see 5 bars and none when you turn the corner. I suspect that the school either has too much steel and is attenuating the signal or they are shutting down the cell towers nearby.

And I'd rather have a working cell (or H/T) than a gun if there's going to be another Columbine. A bunch of trained cops can do more than a couple of guys with guns.

[KG4CGC]

Obviously I have made grammatical and spelling errors.

[NQ6U]

Obviously I have made grammatical and spelling errors.

Know! Knot ewe??

[n2ize]

A lot of principles are into drugs too!


(are we cleared to start the comedy routines yet?)

This friend of mine had the greatest principal in his high school. The principal was a total stoner / drugger / party'er. The guy used to keep his office darkened and used to lay back on a sofa and listen to music and play his guitar. He was also a great principal. he was really easy going and pretty much let the kids do whatever they wanted. As long as they weren't attacking each other or wrecking the school he was okay with them. He never hassled the students for drugs or tried to frame anyone or get anyone in trouble. As a matter of fact if anyone did get into a jam he would try and help them out. one more than one occasion he went to juvenile court to help out a couple of kids who got in trouble. After school many students would hang out in his office and talk about music and stuff. He even used to give guitar lessons and write songs and stuff.

Of course this was in the days long before the schools were turned into mini "police states". In today's world of strict zero-tolerance rules and ultra strict ordinances I doubt he would be a principal for very long.

[W1GUH]

Because of the nature of this city, with all the tall steel buildings, there are many buildings where you can't even get one bar. Heck, there are streets where you see 5 bars and none when you turn the corner. I suspect that the school either has too much steel and is attenuating the signal or they are shutting down the cell towers nearby.

And I'd rather have a working cell (or H/T) than a gun if there's going to be another Columbine. A bunch of trained cops can do more than a couple of guys with guns.

Examiing the mentalitly that a cell phone is a personal life-saver at something like Columbine, it doesn't seem all that important for eveyone to have his or her own. Yes, the police damn well better be called, but how many calls need to be made, anyway? And wouldn't there probably be a land-line somewhere where someone can call from? The notion that "I just GOTTA have my own personal cell phone for safety" kinda breaks down in large events where there are probably many cell phones. How many people have to call, anyway?

[n2ize]

Examiing the mentalitly that a cell phone is a personal life-saver at something like Columbine, it doesn't seem all that important for eveyone to have his or her own. Yes, the police damn well better be called, but how many calls need to be made, anyway? And wouldn't there probably be a land-line somewhere where someone can call from? The notion that "I just GOTTA have my own personal cell phone for safety" kinda breaks down in large events where there are probably many cell phones. How many people have to call, anyway?

It depends on the emergency. In a large fire having a cell phone would enable persons who are trapped and whom the fire dept may not know about to call dispatch and inform them of exactly where in the building they are trapped so that crews may be directed to them. Indeed, this has happened and has saved lives that would have otherwise been lost. As far as a land line being available , don't be too sure. these days it's not always easy to find a working land line when you need one. The real bottom line is that, in a serious emergency, like a major fire at a school, etc. you can never have enough communications.

[N7YA]

Dont block the school, just require that all phone service is through AT&T, nobody will be making a call.

[ki4itv]

Know! Knot ewe??

:lol::lol:
killer weed
:rofl:

[W3WN]

Dont block the school, just require that all phone service is through AT&T, nobody will be making a call.+ 3

[N7YA]

All i get is 3? Ok. :lol::lol::lol:

[K7SGJ]

Tough crowd, huh?

[N7YA]

Considering my erratic posts, im happy with the 3. :)

[W3WN]

All i get is 3? Ok. :lol::lol::lol:Well, it's AT&T, so it's kind of a given...

[NQ6U]

Well, it's AT&T, so it's kind of a given...

It depends on where you live. AT&T does okay around these parts and I've gotten through on my phone in places where people with Verizon phones had no signal at all. On the other hand, a friend of mine (also on AT&T) who lives near Atlantic City can't even make a call on his phone from inside his house most of the time.

[N2NH]

Regarding Paul and his contention that you only need one phone call, reminds me of a situation a few weeks ago. I was replying to a post here when I heard a strange sound. I went to the window and saw that there was a car that had flipped over on the FDR drive. Someone had managed to overturn a Mini and that takes some doing, but there it was. Now about half a minute had passed from the time I heard the sound and the time I saw the car. You'd think that with thousands of people on the roadway and in nearby buildings at least one person would have called 911. Heck I even thought that when I called 911. But the operator said I was the first to report it when I did. Either nobody cared or everyone else thought someone else would make the call.Sometimes it doesn't hurt to have two or three hunderd cellphones if only one person bothers to call.

[W1GUH]

Kinda apples and oranges between an event the involves many people and an event that only involves a few.

Re: AT&T vs. "V"...you pays your money and takes your choice. Both are cut-throat reptilian companies, both do decent service. I've got AT&T because, after experiencing Verizon on my now defunct land-line, there's no way I'll voluntarily choose them. Any company that has to change it's name so much...New York Telephone to Nynex to Verizon has GOT to be hiding something!

At least AT&T, that had been Cingular for a little while, went back to AT&T.

[n2ize]

Kinda apples and oranges between an event the involves many people and an event that only involves a few.

Still, what difference does it make ? In any kind of emergency the more communications you have the better. Since almost everyone has a cell phone these days it's simply a given and not much of an issue. Now, if we plan to confiscate cell phones or limit how many cell phones can be carried into a given area then it might be an issue.



Re: AT&T vs. "V"...you pays your money and takes your choice. Both are cut-throat reptilian companies, both do decent service. I've got AT&T because, after experiencing Verizon on my now defunct land-line, there's no way I'll voluntarily choose them. Any company that has to change it's name so much...New York Telephone to Nynex to Verizon has GOT to be hiding something!

At least AT&T, that had been Cingular for a little while, went back to AT&T.

They are basically all the same and just because a particular corporation hasn't changed its name doesn't mean they are any "more on the level" than one that has made many changes. You have to watch your services, billing, hidden charges, and all the clever little tricks they use to try and get you to pay more.

[W3WN]

It depends on where you live. AT&T does okay around these parts and I've gotten through on my phone in places where people with Verizon phones had no signal at all. On the other hand, a friend of mine (also on AT&T) who lives near Atlantic City can't even make a call on his phone from inside his house most of the time.Well, we had the original AT&T Wireless when we got our first cell phones, on the original analog system. They got sold to Cingular, and service went right into the crapper. But the price was right, and we had coverage for the most part, so we stuck with it.

Problem was that they started pressuring us to upgrade to the newer digital tiers, and kept promising us that the cost & coverage would be the same (on a new 2 year contract, of course). Two lies there... first was that the cost wouldn't be the same, it was close to double. Second was that the new digital network had NO coverage where we lived. They also would promise we could try it for 30 days and switch back... but as it turned out, once we left the analog system, and rates, behind us, there was no going back.

Push came to shove when we got notice that in 6 months, the old network was being turned off. We ended up jumping to Verizon Wireless, since we could verify that we had Verizon coverage at the QTH, at closer to our original costs (although those have been creeping up on us as well lately, but I digress). Then Cingular got snitty about turning our service off, and tried to hit us with two extra months worth of bills. When they threatened to turn us into collections, I demanded that they show us how they determined the extra charges, to which they responded by sending us copies of our last "bills" showing that we allegedly owed money, but not why or what we owed it for. And that was the last we heard from them.

Relevance? Cingular (who was once several of the Baby Bells, ironically enough) bought, swallowed, and assumed the name of the original AT&T.

[W3WN]

Kinda apples and oranges between an event the involves many people and an event that only involves a few.

Re: AT&T vs. "V"...you pays your money and takes your choice. Both are cut-throat reptilian companies, both do decent service. I've got AT&T because, after experiencing Verizon on my now defunct land-line, there's no way I'll voluntarily choose them. Any company that has to change it's name so much...New York Telephone to Nynex to Verizon has GOT to be hiding something!

At least AT&T, that had been Cingular for a little while, went back to AT&T.Well, Verizon (and I never liked that name), nee Bell Atlantic, took over NyNex. Of course, their service was pretty iffy to being with, so it's no wonder that you never noticed the difference. They changed to the V word when they took over the old GTE, which had been a Bell competitor, back in the day.

AT&T, as I said before, was originally Cingular, a merger of several of the other Baby Bells. IIRC, Southwest Bell took over Ameritech for one, and I think BellSouth got absorbed into that mess as well. When they took over the remants of the original Ma Bell, they took the name...