When in doubt, reboot....

[W1GUH]

Just like with a PC and maybe a smart phone, those words apply to cable boxes, at least those from Time-Warner. The last two times I've had to call them, that's what they did from their end and all was fine. Finally remembered that last night when things got flaky.

When in doubt, reboot!

So why do they need to update the SW so often, anyway?

[W3WN]

Just like with a PC and maybe a smart phone, those words apply to cable boxes, at least those from Time-Warner. The last two times I've had to call them, that's what they did from their end and all was fine. Finally remembered that last night when things got flaky.

When in doubt, reboot!

So why do they need to update the SW so often, anyway?Verizon FiOS pulled that on us a few weeks back. Of course on a night when I have wee bout of insomnia, the converter boxes kept rebooting, all to give us a "new and improved" menu system that I don't like nearly as much as the old one. Despite the pretty colors.

DirecTV used to do that all the time too. I think their real purpose was to hunt for unauthorized (by them) devices that the so-called magic bullet could later take out. Of course, they always denied even the existance of the magic bullet.

[KG4CGC]

Ever have the cable guy in your house? He calls up the headquarters and tell them he needs a bullet. Bullets both start and stop the boxes. Years ago, RS used to sell a device that was a functional bullet blocker. This was during the time that you could walk into a retailer and buy a cable box that was basically an outboard tuner.

[W3WN]

Ever have the cable guy in your house? He calls up the headquarters and tell them he needs a bullet. Bullets both start and stop the boxes. Years ago, RS used to sell a device that was a functional bullet blocker. This was during the time that you could walk into a retailer and buy a cable box that was basically an outboard tuner.Hell no. Never again.

When we switched from DSL to FiOS at the townhouse, the "cable guy" (ie Verizon installer) insisted he had to check my PC over to install software. Found out 3 days later that he did me the "favor" of switching my email account's name from mine to my wife's, since the phone line is in her name.

When we had to get the router at the house replaced a couple of years ago, support promised me (on the phone) that the installer would simply drop off the new router & pick up the old one (we were running, ironically, on the townhouse's router temporarily). The installer refused to do this, told the wife that he was REQUIRED to inspect our home network and EACH and EVERY computer on it. She called me at work, I told her not to let the guy in the house, I called Verizon Support and asked why... and they told me that there was no such requirement, and they'd get to the bottom of this. 15 minutes later the installer returned and swapped equipment; I understand he wasn't in a good mood.

Never again will I let those turkeys rummage through my network. Never!

[W1GUH]

I'm constantly reminded of why I'm SO GLAD to be rid of DSL...it's a nightmare.

RoadRunner, OTOH, needed NO software, NO guy to check out anything at all, NO nothing. Plugged in and took off on the web with speed that DSL can only dream about.

[KG4CGC]

Hell no. Never again.

When we switched from DSL to FiOS at the townhouse, the "cable guy" (ie Verizon installer) insisted he had to check my PC over to install software. Found out 3 days later that he did me the "favor" of switching my email account's name from mine to my wife's, since the phone line is in her name.

When we had to get the router at the house replaced a couple of years ago, support promised me (on the phone) that the installer would simply drop off the new router & pick up the old one (we were running, ironically, on the townhouse's router temporarily). The installer refused to do this, told the wife that he was REQUIRED to inspect our home network and EACH and EVERY computer on it. She called me at work, I told her not to let the guy in the house, I called Verizon Support and asked why... and they told me that there was no such requirement, and they'd get to the bottom of this. 15 minutes later the installer returned and swapped equipment; I understand he wasn't in a good mood.

Never again will I let those turkeys rummage through my network. Never!This was back in the late 80s. These day there is no way I would let them in because even the guys who do repair work at certified computer shops are hackers. Some of them are self appointed cops. Some of them think they're Chris Hansen. Mostly though, they're after passwords and account numbers to places where they can find your money.

[W3WN]

Well, I don't know if the guy was hunting for passwords, or was hunting for naughty bits (wink wink nudge nudge ya know what I mean?), or was planning to plant something. Or just was nosy.

But there is NO way you can tell me that replacing a bad router requires a personal inspection of the individual computers. And trying to tell me (via the boss, who unfortunately has a tendency to defer to implied authority) that this is an FCC requirement was absurd.

[KC2UGV]

I'm constantly reminded of why I'm SO GLAD to be rid of DSL...it's a nightmare.

RoadRunner, OTOH, needed NO software, NO guy to check out anything at all, NO nothing. Plugged in and took off on the web with speed that DSL can only dream about.

DSL doesn't require "software" so to speak.

However, in reality, they all need software. It's in the Router/Modem/Bridge/etc. As to why the need for updates? Security. Bug fixes. Etc.

[W1GUH]

"...they all need software..."

Nope. I don't "log into" the connection. It's just there. OTOH, a friend's DSL was a PITA to put a router on...needed to program the router to log onto the DSL connection, something the software that was installed on her computer did automatically. In that situation a router is a really good thing, whether or not it's needed for multiple devices. Anything you plug into it is alrady logged on.

"As to why the need for updates? Security. Bug fixes. Etc. "

In other words, the rush SW into the world without doing a complete and good job of development and testing. Cheap bastards.

[KC2UGV]

"...they all need software..."

Nope. I don't "log into" the connection. It's just there. OTOH, a friend's DSL was a PITA to put a router on...needed to program the router to log onto the DSL connection, something the software that was installed on her computer did automatically. In that situation a router is a really good thing, whether or not it's needed for multiple devices. Anything you plug into it is alrady logged on.


It's still software there. Cable requires a cable modem to connect, there's software there to translate one medium into another. It handles the authentication (Which is based on your modem's MAC and device ID), and your device is provisioned for access.

DSL uses a different authentication (PPoE), and that can be handled right in the DSL modem, or in the router (Most do it in the routers). All it is a user name and a password.

Either way, software is still there. Just as much software for both solutions.



"As to why the need for updates? Security. Bug fixes. Etc. "

In other words, the rush SW into the world without doing a complete and good job of development and testing. Cheap bastards.

No, not necessarily. Not all things can be tested in a lab. That's why we have: Linux 2.6.31 (Major Version 2, Minor Version 6, and Bugfix 31); Windows 7, which is WinNT 7.2 (Major release 7, minor version 2); and OS X (MacOS 10.x).

The wider the audience, the more test cases, and the more bugs to be found. I'd rather lots of updates (ie: software staying current) than not.

[W1GUH]

"Cable requires a cable modem to connect, there's software there to translate one medium into another. "

Aha! THERE's the disconnect here. But that's the good news...it's not in the computer I hook up to it. (Unlike that horrible AT&T DSL I had briefly. Their software took over my compter & it took me days to undo what it did.)

"No, not necessarily. Not all things can be tested in a lab. "

(Tongue in cheek, mostly)

The famous hi-tech disclaimer. Which translates to "We had a woefully under-funded deployment budget because our fat-cat bosses are greedy."

Notice I don't put the blame on the tech guys...I put it squarely on the "usual suspects." !! :twisted:;):-D

[KC2UGV]

"Cable requires a cable modem to connect, there's software there to translate one medium into another. "

Aha! THERE's the disconnect here. But that's the good news...it's not in the computer I hook up to it. (Unlike that horrible AT&T DSL I had briefly. Their software took over my compter & it took me days to undo what it did.)


You don't HAVE to have any software on ANY machine with DSL... The fact that you installed their software vs. doing it the "right way" was your fault, not a sign of one technology being better than the other; or one requiring software vs. the other not. BOTH require software somewhere.



"No, not necessarily. Not all things can be tested in a lab. "

(Tongue in cheek, mostly)

The famous hi-tech disclaimer. Which translates to "We had a woefully under-funded deployment budget because our fat-cat bosses are greedy."

Notice I don't put the blame on the tech guys...I put it squarely on the "usual suspects." !! :twisted:;):-D

No, really. New software versions are not usually a sign of lack of testing; but rather that not all combinations can be tested in a lab. Which is why you STILL see many versions of open-sourced software. Software development is iterative, not monolithic.

[W1GUH]

"You don't HAVE to have any software on ANY machine with DSL... The fact that you installed their software vs. doing it the "right way" was your fault, not a sign of one technology being better than the other; or one requiring software vs. the other not. BOTH require software somewhere."

C'mon Corey...that "blaming the user" is getting very, very old. Is that a reflex, or what? I take that seroisly as a personal attack, something that's not supposed to be tolerated here. What IS it with you and that syndrome?

Blaming ME for follwing AT&T's instructions? Infinite shame on you. (Not gonna use the smilie, this is dead serious. )Do I have to go back to ignoring you?

These word are serious. Please stifle yourself when you've the urge to blame the user, OK?

[KC2UGV]

"You don't HAVE to have any software on ANY machine with DSL... The fact that you installed their software vs. doing it the "right way" was your fault, not a sign of one technology being better than the other; or one requiring software vs. the other not. BOTH require software somewhere."

C'mon Corey...that "blaming the user" is getting very, very old. Is that a reflex, or what? I take that seroisly as a personal attack, something that's not supposed to be tolerated here. What IS it with you and that syndrome?

Blaming ME for follwing AT&T's instructions? Infinite shame on you. (Not gonna use the smilie, this is dead serious. )Do I have to go back to ignoring you?

These word are serious. Please stifle yourself when you've the urge to blame the user, OK?

I blame you for choices you made. You chose to install the software. You installed the software. You made the claim that cable requires no software while DSL does. You chose not to hire someone to setup a network for you. You chose to not research how to do something the first time.

So, yes, the blame for your bad experience with DSL belongs to you.

You made the same dubious claim that Linux trashed a hard drive, while you decided to ignore error warnings.

Yes, 90% of the time a computer has issues, the user​ is at fault.

And should you choose to place me on ignore, so be it. But, don't blame me for poking holes in your dubious claims.

[n2ize]

Generally when you have DSL installed they leave you with a router that is connected to the Internet. Any modern network capable operating system should be able to connect to the router and run without any need for additional software. All the additional junk is just bells and whistles for accessing the providers web junk. Most people simply don't install it.

[n2ize]

"Cable requires a cable modem to connect, there's software there to translate one medium into another. "

Aha! THERE's the disconnect here. But that's the good news...it's not in the computer I hook up to it. (Unlike that horrible AT&T DSL I had briefly. Their software took over my compter & it took me days to undo what it did.)

"No, not necessarily. Not all things can be tested in a lab. "

(Tongue in cheek, mostly)

The famous hi-tech disclaimer. Which translates to "We had a woefully under-funded deployment budget because our fat-cat bosses are greedy."

Notice I don't put the blame on the tech guys...I put it squarely on the "usual suspects." !! :twisted:;):-D

I have to go with Corey on this one. Even the most skilled and experienced developer cannot anticipate every machine, every combination of software and hardware and every glitch,mode of use, etc.. which may cause problems. Anyone who claims they can produce flawless software right out of thhe box is either...lying, or, writing extremely simple software such as

> (print "Hello World")

:)

I will say however, that some of the new "made easy" langauges can make developers overly confident and more prone to errors. In the old days when we were using Assembly, Lisp, FORTRAN, and later C or coding directly in machine we were working more carefully and making fewer mistakes. Thats why I still prefer the old langauges. Of course back in those days most programnmers were Mathematicians, Physicists, Hippies, radicals, Potheads, acidheads, and they programmed out of a sense of love and passion for what they do as opposed to today when its just done for money. For them it was more like an art than a science.