View Full Version : Infield fly rule....
W1GUH
07-25-2011, 07:34 PM
From wiki:
Since the purpose is to prevent double plays, the rule applies only when there are fewer than two outs, and there is a force play at third base (i.e., there are runners at first and second base, or the bases are loaded).
This would appear to say that it would be perfectly legal for a fielder to purposely drop a fly ball with a runner at first, and then throw out the lead runner at second, thus benefiting the team in the field? Presumably, the batter has run to first, so there'd be no double play.
KG4CGC
07-25-2011, 07:59 PM
WTH is the Infidel Fly Rule?
WTH is the Infidel Fly Rule?
When there are infidels on first and second with less than two outs, it's not allowed to purposely cause the bomb to misfire on the first try in order to blow up both infidels with one bomb.
KG4CGC
07-25-2011, 08:26 PM
When there are infidels on first and second with less than two outs, it's not allowed to purposely cause the bomb to misfire on the first try in order to blow up both infidels with one bomb.
OH! The shish kebob 2 birds on a fire rule.
W1GUH
07-25-2011, 08:27 PM
It's a lifelong perv label for messing with an Infidel's fly.
From wiki:
Since the purpose is to prevent double plays, the rule applies only when there are fewer than two outs, and there is a force play at third base (i.e., there are runners at first and second base, or the bases are loaded).
This would appear to say that it would be perfectly legal for a fielder to purposely drop a fly ball with a runner at first, and then throw out the lead runner at second, thus benefiting the team in the field? Presumably, the batter has run to first, so there'd be no double play.Actually, my understanding of the more arcane of baseball rules is that the purpose of the infield fly rule is to PREVENT the team in the field from doing just that.
KG4CGC
07-25-2011, 08:32 PM
It's a lifelong perv label for messing with an Infidel's fly.They're still doing it wrong though. Can't even get an underwear bomb to work right without only causing injury to impressionable teenagers.
W1GUH
07-25-2011, 08:39 PM
Actually, my understanding of the more arcane of baseball rules is that the purpose of the infield fly rule is to PREVENT the team in the field from doing just that.
That's what I always thought. But 1) I'm watching the Tigers-White Sox game and there was a sky-high popup fair ball with a runner on first and no infield fly rule was called. And 2), both wiki and another site said it's only called with runners on 1st and 2nd (or bases loaded -- force at 3rd). The thinking being, on a pop-up the runners can't run, so you could double-up at 3rd and 2nd. But that leaves the case I'm asking about.
If this gets too confusing, we can always discuss what a balk is!
kb2vxa
07-26-2011, 07:06 AM
If you hit Pop Fligh never mind the infidels, Dondi gonna cry!
W1GUH
07-26-2011, 07:31 AM
If you hit Pop Fligh never mind the infidels, Dondi gonna cry!
Well, you made me look -- and your OF'ness is showing!! :-D
http://classiccomicspress.com/dondi/images/dondi_02.jpg
Coundn't find an image of Pop Fligh, but I did find Fligh...probably prettier?
http://www.billboard.com/images/album_images/cov200/pop/cov200/drj400/j421/j42157zf77q.jpg
That's what I always thought. But 1) I'm watching the Tigers-White Sox game and there was a sky-high popup fair ball with a runner on first and no infield fly rule was called. And 2), both wiki and another site said it's only called with runners on 1st and 2nd (or bases loaded -- force at 3rd). The thinking being, on a pop-up the runners can't run, so you could double-up at 3rd and 2nd. But that leaves the case I'm asking about.
If this gets too confusing, we can always discuss what a balk is!A balk? Easy. That's when the pitcher deliberately makes a move that the umpire feels is to unfairly fool the runner(s) on base... such as starting to throw to home, stopping, and then trying to pick a runner off. In other words, once you start, you have to follow through. It's not called when there are no runners on base, as there are no baserunners to fool.
The concept of the infield fly rule is actually simple. When there are runners on base, they are supposed to hold if there's a pop-up or fly ball; they can't leave the base they're standing on until the ball is caught (or dropped or missed in error), only then can they tag up (if they so choose) and try to advance. Now, if there are runners on base, and less than 2 outs... because if there are 2 outs, you only have to catch the ball to end the inning... an infielder could deliberately miss or drop the ball, which forces the runners to try and advance as it's a "live" ball. However, because they have had to hold, they won't get very far before the infielder then picks up the ball and throws at least one out.
So when the infield fly rule is called, the umpires are telling the infielders in effect that the pop-up or fly ball is already ruled an out, and therefore the runners aren't going to be allowed to advance anyway (so no chance for a throw to any base), so just catch the damned ball and be done with it.
That's the simplest explanation I can think of, and no, I'm not covering every possible permutation. That's simply the most common example.
That all being said, I can't help you with the infidel fly rule. For one thing, I think the infidels wear button up jeans, when they're not wearing robes.
Good explanation, Ron, but you forgot to mention that the runners are allowed to advance if they choose as soon as the batter is ruled out.
K7SGJ
07-26-2011, 09:03 AM
<snip>
If this gets too confusing, we can always discuss what a balk is!
Yeah, loved him in Colombo.
W1GUH
07-26-2011, 09:04 AM
Yea, but what about runner on first, less than 2 outs? Doesn't seem to be covered. From the official MLB.com rules: (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp)
An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
(emphasis added)
So, again, with a runner at first and less than two out, there's nothing there that says an infielder can't drop the ball on purpose and throw out the lead runner at second?
W1GUH
07-26-2011, 09:15 AM
And as for balks...
From the same site:
A BALKi s an illegal act by the pitcher with a runner or runners on base, entitling all runners to advance one base.
SET POSITION is one of the two legal pitching positions.
WIND UP POSITION is one of the two legal pitching positions.
[/QUOTE]
A QUICK RETURN pitch is one made with obvious intent to catch a batter off balance. It is an illegal pitch.
An ILLEGAL PITCH is (1) a pitch delivered to the batter when the pitcher does not have his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate; (2) a quick return pitch. An illegal pitch when runners are on base is a balk.
What funny rules. Don't define "set position" or "windup position"...guess there must be more, somewhere, that defines these more precisely. Or are things like that 3-second? rule about being "set" or "moving towards the pate" historical things that "everybody knows?"
Yea, but what about runner on first, less than 2 outs? Doesn't seem to be covered. From the official MLB.com rules: (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp)
(emphasis added)
So, again, with a runner at first and less than two out, there's nothing there that says an infielder can't drop the ball on purpose and throw out the lead runner at second?
There's nothing to be gained by dropping the ball. The batter is already out and the runners are not forced to advance, although they can attempt it if they want to.
W1GUH
07-26-2011, 09:42 AM
There's nothing to be gained by dropping the ball. The batter is already out and the runners are not forced to advance, although they can attempt it if they want to.
THAT's what I was forgetting. Thanks.
W1GUH
07-26-2011, 09:55 AM
Forgot to add...:homer: DOH! And I call myself an avid baseball fan?
Forgot to add...:homer: DOH! And I call myself an avid baseball fan?
Don't kick yourself, the infield fly rule is the most confusing rule in baseball. Even umpires fuck it up sometimes.
kb2vxa
07-26-2011, 10:22 AM
"And I call myself an avid baseball fan?"
Ah dunno, but without baseball fans the baseballs would get awfully hot. <ba dum, BUM!>
Now tell me this, why are they called players? Kids are players, but by the time they get to the major leagues they become workers.
And if your train's on time
You can get to work by nine
And start your slaving job to get your pay
If you ever get annoyed
Look at me I'm pro sports employed
I love to work at nothing all day
And I'll be...
Taking care of business, every day......
Good explanation, Ron, but you forgot to mention that the runners are allowed to advance if they choose as soon as the batter is ruled out.True, although you would think that once the infielder is HOLDING the damn ball, odds are pretty good they're not going to try it.
For example, you'd have to be pretty fast, if you're standing on third, to beat a throw home from the shortstop or 2nd baseman. Even if you're Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez. Of course, you might be gambling that the throw will be off. And so forth.
But I was trying to keep it simple and to the point.
Yea, but what about runner on first, less than 2 outs? Doesn't seem to be covered. From the official MLB.com rules: (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp)
(emphasis added)
So, again, with a runner at first and less than two out, there's nothing there that says an infielder can't drop the ball on purpose and throw out the lead runner at second?Think about it though. You're the runner on first, and there's less than 2 outs. You just saw a pop-up that looks like it's going to be covered under infield fly. Are you really going to move? Sure, the infielder can drop the ball... which puts two runners on first, and one will be ruled out as soon as he's tagged. So either way, runner on first, one out.
Lone runner on 2nd or 3rd? If you don't move, and the infielder drops the ball, then the infielder MUST try to throw out the batter at first base. And if he does so, and you're fast enough, then you may want to try and advance... if you're fast enough. If not, you're still in scoring position. As a practical matter, would the infielder really give up a sure out and risk advancing the base runner in scoring position? It might happen, but I'd wager not very often.
Don't kick yourself, the infield fly rule is the most confusing rule in baseball. Even umpires fuck it up sometimes.Ain't that the truth.
The more arcane aspects of the infield fly and balk rules... and what is defined, and what isn't... can drive a person nutz.
And they even mess up the simple stuff. Batter hits the ball. Ball hits a baserunner. That baserunner is automatically out, right? That's what the rules say... but that gave the Cardinals an extra baserunner (who eventually scored) Friday night.
< snip >
And if your train's on time
You can get to work by nine
And start your slaving job to get your pay
If you ever get annoyed
Look at me I'm pro sports employed
I love to work at nothing all day
And I'll be...
Taking care of business, every day......No, but my kid is. Anytime you want to see the Washington Nationals play, call 202-640-7651, ask for Paul.
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