Winehouse, 27, found dead at her London flat

[ki4itv]

Amy Winehouse, 27, found dead at her London flat (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2018020/Amy-Winehouse-dead--Found-dead-London-flat.html)


Who didn't see this coming after her last performance? :(

[PA5COR]

27, what a waste...

[ki4itv]

We've had a lot of fun with her over the years, on this island.
But, that doesn't diminish the gift she squandered so recklessly.

[suddenseer]

What a sad waste of such a young talented life. I stopped asking "why?" a long time ago.

[KG4CGC]

Twenty Seven. That's a magic number but not since the Hippy Revolution have we seen someone die so young from a life of excess.

[NQ6U]

Twenty Seven. That's a magic number but not since the Hippy Revolution have we seen someone die so young from a life of excess.

Janis Joplin—dead at 27

Kurt Cobain—dead at 27

Jimi Hendrix—dead at 27

Now Amy Winehouse is dead at 27

Sounds like twenty-seven is a very dangerous age for musicians.

[KG4CGC]

Jim Morrison - 27

[N2CHX]

I remember 27. I was on the verge of becoming a millionaire. I was well on my way, but then unfortunately Bush took office. 30 was a very depressing year for me.

[KG4CGC]

I remember 27. I was on the verge of becoming a millionaire. I was well on my way, but then unfortunately Bush took office. 30 was a very depressing year for me.
That's because it wasn't your money. It was his and they all believe that.

[ki4itv]

I got married when I was 27. Couldn't afford enough drugs to do me in. :twisted:

[kc7jty]

Don't get hooked on that evil dope folks. It's a deal with the devil.

[KG4CGC]

Don't get hooked on that evil dope folks. It's a deal with the devil.
Nicotine is the devil with a vagina.

[N2NH]

Janis Joplin—dead at 27*

Kurt Cobain—dead at 27

Jimi Hendrix—dead at 27*

Now Amy Winehouse is dead at 27

Sounds like twenty-seven is a very dangerous age for musicians.

* Why the asterisk? Because even Hendrix believed that Janis was murdered and he felt that he was next. That's why he was in London at the time he was found dead.

BTW, Jim Morrison was also 27 when he was found dead. In Paris, France.

[KJ3N]

30 was a very depressing year for me.

Oh, cry me a river, young whippersnapper. :hand: :bfd:

Oh... and get off my lawn!! :neener: :lol:

[kc7jty]

Nicotine is the devil with a vagina.
I sense your words are from experience.

[N7YA]

Janis Joplin—dead at 27

Kurt Cobain—dead at 27

Jimi Hendrix—dead at 27

Now Amy Winehouse is dead at 27

Sounds like twenty-seven is a very dangerous age for musicians.

Glad im 45! I figured out long ago that certain drugs will make you their bitch, then kill you in your sleep. It IS sad to see this, she had a great voice. Not to sound crass and detached, but i called this one a few years back....along with 9/10 of the world.

[W4GPL]

Her life was like watching the longest slowest train wreck I've ever witnessed. As predictable as it is sad.

[W5RB]

Addiction is a fatal disease. Some suffer longer than others .

[n2ize]

Addiction is a fatal disease. Some suffer longer than others .

Many addicts enjoy using drugs. Some enjoy the drugs but not the addiction. Some live to be a very old age. Having some sort of habit is a normal part of human nature. We are all addicted to something. Most of us are addicted to many things. I doubt I could be happy in life without being addicted to at least something or other. I doubt anyone could.

[KG4CGC]

I ONCE PLAYED A GAME OF CRICKET WITHOUT SHIN GUARDS.

[n2ize]

I don't consider her life a waste. The way i see it she lived 27 long and good years (hopefully). The only person who could have declared her life to be a waste or not was her herself. Only she knew if she was ultimately living a wasted life. If she was contented with herself and what she was doing and how she was living then that is all that matters. We all die eventually. Some die young others die old. I know a couple people who died young. But in their relatively short life spans they produced more than many produce in loing life spans. The guy pictured in my avatar died at the age of 21 in a pistol duel in France. Yet in his relatively short lifetime he made some important contributions to the field of Mathematics that are taught to all students in the worlds colleges to date. he contributed to hiis profession more than most will contribute in their entire lives. Some would say his life was wasted and he made a foolish decision to duel . I would say he lived a great life and he made the decision which he thought was best and wisest for himself.

[WØTKX]

She was erratic, but when she was on it, she was good. This is a cool tune. http://youtu.be/ojdbDYahiCQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdbDYahiCQ



Robert Johnson died at 27 as well. http://youtu.be/It-tJ8DOjIk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It-tJ8DOjIk

[w2amr]

Oh, cry me a river, young whippersnapper. :hand: :bfd:

Oh... and get off my lawn!! :neener: :lol:
You too, huh?

[N7YA]

It sure didnt look like she lived a good life by any stretch. She had what many people, including me, dream about...a successful music career. She just didnt have the drive or strength to overcome her demons. Sure, lots of people are addicted to to something, chocolate chip cookies, restoring old cars or online gaming can have certain drawbacks if left unchecked, but heroin and alcoholism? A bit harder to beat for those with a mushy center.

[Jerry]

You know, I am going to be 47 years old soon and all I can say is that I have been involved in Communications going on 40 years. Working the CB radio when my dad was not around when I was just 5 or 6 years old and building my own antenna's and modifying AM radios as a child so I could stay up late at night and listen to the radio.
WOWO Ft Wayne Indiana, WKBW Buffallo, KDKA Pittsburgh, 14 KQV etc - it didn't really matter, as long as it was rock n roll.

The other day at work, when asked how many songs I knew the words to - I replied easily over 100,000 songs.
As long as it is from the 50's - 60's - 70's - 80's or 90's - I can play name that tune all day long.

When this whiney crap came along around about 2000 or so - I had to change the channel.
As far as I am concerned - it's not music.

The only good thing to happen since then was that the Rock a Billy - country has caught up to the 80's style Rock n Roll and now Country Music is more acceptable to me then modern hip hop / rock / rap etc.

I don't want some moron screaming and growling and making all kinds of idiotic noises on my radio and I don't want some spoiled brat that never worked a day in their lives to sit there and whine. I think that all that girl needed was someone to slap her silly and tell her to wake up. If that was my daughter - abusing drugs, I would kick the chit out of her. Then again, I don't think that no child that I raised would want to do drugs - since if you have a good home life - what would there be for you to have to escape from?

I don't like the direction that the media has pushed the youth of America in, making them grow up too soon and making them conform to their standards.
All we have to do is look at the successful child actors and models and we can clearly see a trend.
Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan ......
All of them needs their butts kicked.

[n2ize]

It sure didnt look like she lived a good life by any stretch. She had what many people, including me, dream about...a successful music career. She just didnt have the drive or strength to overcome her demons. Sure, lots of people are addicted to to something, chocolate chip cookies, restoring old cars or online gaming can have certain drawbacks if left unchecked, but heroin and alcoholism? A bit harder to beat for those with a mushy center.

One persons demon is another persons angel. And vice versa. Only the person themselves knows which of the two it is. What may seem like misery to some may be bliss to others. The answer lies in each of us and may be very different in each of us.

[n2ize]

You know, I am going to be 47 years old soon and all I can say is that I have been involved in Communications going on 40 years. Working the CB radio when my dad was not around when I was just 5 or 6 years old and building my own antenna's and modifying AM radios as a child so I could stay up late at night and listen to the radio.
WOWO Ft Wayne Indiana, WKBW Buffallo, KDKA Pittsburgh, 14 KQV etc - it didn't really matter, as long as it was rock n roll.

The other day at work, when asked how many songs I knew the words to - I replied easily over 100,000 songs.
As long as it is from the 50's - 60's - 70's - 80's or 90's - I can play name that tune all day long.

When this whiney crap came along around about 2000 or so - I had to change the channel.
As far as I am concerned - it's not music.

Everyone is different. To my dad, anything that is not classical opera, or a classical string quartet is not music. In days gone by there were those who considered what we call classical opera to be a sinful excuse for music. Art is in the eye of the beholder.


The only good thing to happen since then was that the Rock a Billy - country has caught up to the 80's style Rock n Roll and now Country Music is more acceptable to me then modern hip hop / rock / rap etc.

That is subjective to your idea of what is good music and what is not. Which is fine.


I don't want some moron screaming and growling and making all kinds of idiotic noises on my radio and I don't want some spoiled brat that never worked a day in their lives to sit there and whine. I think that all that girl needed was someone to slap her silly and tell her to wake up. If that was my daughter - abusing drugs, I would kick the chit out of her. Then again, I don't think that no child that I raised would want to do drugs - since if you have a good home life - what would there be for you to have to escape from?

Not everyone who uses drugs necessarily wants to escape from something. And then those who do might be escaping from something that you may not recognize as something a person might want to escape from. Most of the people I know who went on to use drugs came not from dysfunctional families from which one would expect the need for escape is strong but rather from solid, upright families with a so called good home life and sound upbringing. In each case it was the same reaction. "I cannot comprehend how/why my son/daugher/etc. would want to use drugs, drink, do anything like that, etc. As far as kicking the shit out of your daughter for using drugs would probably have the opposite effect of what you might consider the desired effect. Unless you can go inside a persons mind and become that person you can;t comprehend what they may want to escape from or why they might do or like any particular thing.


I don't like the direction that the media has pushed the youth of America in, making them grow up too soon and making them conform to their standards.

We are what we are. The media doesn't make anyone do anything. People make their own choices. People may be impressioned by things they see and hear, but, such has always been the case. In days gone by young people grew up just as fast and sometimes faster. In those days life spans were shorter, things were tough or tougher than today, and many young people were expected to take on responsibilities sooner, to raise families sooner, and be productive at an earlier age. Times have changed. In the old days young people were expected to shoulder heavy responsibilities at an earlier age than most do today. In that sense most kids probably grow up slower today than in the past. On the other hand we live in a different world with respect to communications, expressions of ideas, etc. Kids may pick up on some things at an earlier age than they did when i was the same age. But in a relative sense it averages out.



All we have to do is look at the successful child actors and models and we can clearly see a trend.
Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan ......
All of them needs their butts kicked.

Kicked for what ? being successful ? They always had successful child actors. Nothing new. Back in the 70's there was Brooke Shields, Lief Garret to name a couple. Go back in time there was the little rascals, Shirley Temple, Elizabeth Taylor, Bobby Driscoll and a host of others going back over the centuries. Some made out well in life. Others fell on hard times, along the way , circumscribed to vices, or drowned in the high life.

The more you look at life and the world the more you realize it hasn't changed much. The realities of today are much the realities of yesteryear.

[W4GPL]

Tommy Lee (Motley Crue): "Amy Winehouse died. That's a lifestyle choice. The 87 who were murdered in Oslo Norway. That's fucking tragic."

[kc7jty]

She had problems as a child. She would cut herself and was bulimic.
I often think it's the imbalance, like an off centered load that makes the washing machine stop, that causes people to excel in one area and fail miserably in another.
Jimmi Hendrix's mother was just like him. Loved to party and couldn't control alcohol.

[kc7jty]

We are what we are. The media doesn't make anyone do anything. People make their own choices.
I could not disagree more with this statement. It absolutely boggles the mind how puttylike Americans are, and how easily they can be molded into the perfect mark for those able to milk them oh so well.
In this country absolutely no respect is shown for the individual human mind. It's my biggest gripe with this phucked up land.

[N7RJD]

I ONCE PLAYED A GAME OF CRICKET WITHOUT SHIN GUARDS.

You are a true rebel and daredevil.:rofl::rofl:

[n2ize]

I could not disagree more with this statement. It absolutely boggles the mind how puttylike Americans are, and how easily they can be molded into the perfect mark for those able to milk them oh so well.
In this country absolutely no respect is shown for the individual human mind. It's my biggest gripe with this phucked up land.

The problem is that people choose to let themselves be influenced and manipulated. It's easier to go with the flow and follow the trend than to stand on your own two feet and set your own path. The media doesn't force us to follow it. People foolishly choose to do so and allow themselves to be manipulated.

[KG4CGC]

Do like about half the students that attend Bob Jones University, pretend to be influenced and manipulated.

[N2CHX]

You know, I am going to be 47 years old soon and all I can say is that I have been involved in Communications going on 40 years. Working the CB radio when my dad was not around when I was just 5 or 6 years old and building my own antenna's and modifying AM radios as a child so I could stay up late at night and listen to the radio.




I don't want some moron screaming and growling and making all kinds of idiotic noises on my radio and I don't want some spoiled brat that never worked a day in their lives to sit there and whine. I think that all that girl needed was someone to slap her silly and tell her to wake up. If that was my daughter - abusing drugs, I would kick the chit out of her. Then again, I don't think that no child that I raised would want to do drugs - since if you have a good home life - what would there be for you to have to escape from?

You're everything that's wrong with the world I grew up in. My father believed that "kicking the chit out of you" would cure all his children's ills. Yeah um, didn't work. In fact, it just served to fuck me and my older sister up for a long, long time, since we were the "rebels" of my fundamentalist Christian family.



I don't like the direction that the media has pushed the youth of America in, making them grow up too soon and making them conform to their standards.

You're just a walking contradiction, aren't you? You don't want them conforming to "their" standards because you'd rather they conform to yours. See above.


All we have to do is look at the successful child actors and models and we can clearly see a trend.
Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan ......
All of them needs their butts kicked.

Again, "butt kicking" isn't the answer. Shit happens. People are who they are. If you don't like the music, don't listen to it. Personally I think most music from the 50's-70's sucks. At work I get tired of the misogynist, creepy lyrics played on the XM channel that's usually on that refer to women as "little girl" and chit like that. When I was still up front where the main speakers were, I would put on my bluetooth headphones and listen to my own stuff all day. Now that I'm in the back away from that, I have a set of speakers and I play what I like. I don't begrudge anyone listening to what they want to but hells bells dude, you sound like those old religious fucks who think that rock music is the root of all evil. A lot of modern music -- including Winehouse', is very deep and meaningful. Just because it's not your style doesn't mean the artists need a "butt kicking." Musicians going back decades often have trouble handling fame and fortune and turn to drugs and other not-so-healthy things in order to deal with it. Maybe try getting over yourself a little.

[NQ6U]

You're everything that's wrong with the world I grew up in.

Give Jerry a break. He hails from the sticks of western PA, an area not well known for producing enlightened souls.

[N2CHX]

Give Jerry a break. He hails from the sticks of western PA, an area not well known for producing enlightened souls.

LOL, he's probably my fundy douchebag ex's neighbor.

[kc7jty]

The problem is that people choose to let themselves be influenced and manipulated.
They're too stupid to even realize there IS a choice.

[kc7jty]

Give Jerry a break. He hails from the sticks of western PA, an area not well known for producing enlightened souls.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2718/bootf.png

[KG4CGC]

I wasn't going to say much on this here. I was compelled to say this elsewhere.
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?305999-Amy-Winehouse-Dies.&p=2298265#post2298265

As for kicking things in the butt, Hank Hill makes it funny but we can't handle all of the things in life we don't agree with by resorting to kicking something's butt. My dad thought he could just kick my butt to fix me but it simply broke me in ways I wasn't broken before. It didn't make me successful or a better person. It didn't make me more patriotic or more religious or a better student in school. The desired results were never achieved. So, what do you think the solution was? Yep. Keep kicking butt because it didn't work before so, I guess he thought he had to kick harder.

The focus on pushing people, the focus on punitive punishment and a penal system that focuses on punitive punishment vs rehabilitation is what really fucks things up in this country and other countries with the same focus, like the countries where Islamic terrorists come from. You look at the differences and there is very little. We are just like the terrorists and they know it. They knew if they could bring on an attack heinous enough that it would show us to OURSELVES in our true light. Sad, isn't it? Now we are almost just like them except they probably eat stinky cheese and we have that pre-wrapped plastic stuff.

There are so many ways to help a person out but if you want to fuck them up for life, kick them in the butt and then kick them again when their already down. Do this especially if you feel threatened by your children or if you are embarrassed by them for acting their age at 6 years old and not acting the adult quoting Charles Dickenson's David Copperfield or listening to light classical Boston Pops and pretending to conduct an imaginary orchestra.

Someone mentioned Lohan in this thread. Her father is an absolute bastard. He sure fucked up his own daughter pretty damn bad. Spears has a mother who was bitch to the 10th power. Paris Hilton, pfffft! Not even the same thing. Her deal was a way to gain publicity. ALL publicity is good publicity when you constantly put yourself out there as being a bad girl. She made a name for herself in the media because before, she was only known in certain circles that the commoners are not aware of. Now she sells her own clothing line and puts her name on scents and other women's products and she does it for big bucks. The case of Paris Hilton was all about marketing.

Next time you want to kick someone's butt, ask yourself why. Is it just because you don't agree with their style? Do they make you feel insecure about yourself? Are they doing things that you secretly wish you could do yourself?
(to that last question, most fundy Christians secretly wish they could be gay) LOL!

[N2CHX]

Charles, you articulated that in a way I had no patience to. Thank you.

[KG4CGC]

Charles, you articulated that in a way I had no patience to. Thank you.
Thank you and Peace Out. :)

[WØTKX]

Anybody with any sense knows you can't train a dog by being mean,
why the hell would you do that to a child? Messes them up, forever.

http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php

[kc7jty]

Some are only capable of administering that which they know.

[KG4CGC]

Some are only capable of administering that which they know.
Sometimes you have to train people to think. You can certainly train them to listen and follow instructions.
Jesus, I think I just busted the code.

[KB3LAZ]

I wasn't going to say much on this here. I was compelled to say this elsewhere.
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?305999-Amy-Winehouse-Dies.&p=2298265#post2298265

As for kicking things in the butt, Hank Hill makes it funny but we can't handle all of the things in life we don't agree with by resorting to kicking something's butt. My dad thought he could just kick my butt to fix me but it simply broke me in ways I wasn't broken before. It didn't make me successful or a better person. It didn't make me more patriotic or more religious or a better student in school. The desired results were never achieved. So, what do you think the solution was? Yep. Keep kicking butt because it didn't work before so, I guess he thought he had to kick harder.

The focus on pushing people, the focus on punitive punishment and a penal system that focuses on punitive punishment vs rehabilitation is what really fucks things up in this country and other countries with the same focus, like the countries where Islamic terrorists come from. You look at the differences and there is very little. We are just like the terrorists and they know it. They knew if they could bring on an attack heinous enough that it would show us to OURSELVES in our true light. Sad, isn't it? Now we are almost just like them except they probably eat stinky cheese and we have that pre-wrapped plastic stuff.

There are so many ways to help a person out but if you want to fuck them up for life, kick them in the butt and then kick them again when their already down. Do this especially if you feel threatened by your children or if you are embarrassed by them for acting their age at 6 years old and not acting the adult quoting Charles Dickenson's David Copperfield or listening to light classical Boston Pops and pretending to conduct an imaginary orchestra.

Someone mentioned Lohan in this thread. Her father is an absolute bastard. He sure fucked up his own daughter pretty damn bad. Spears has a mother who was bitch to the 10th power. Paris Hilton, pfffft! Not even the same thing. Her deal was a way to gain publicity. ALL publicity is good publicity when you constantly put yourself out there as being a bad girl. She made a name for herself in the media because before, she was only known in certain circles that the commoners are not aware of. Now she sells her own clothing line and puts her name on scents and other women's products and she does it for big bucks. The case of Paris Hilton was all about marketing.

Next time you want to kick someone's butt, ask yourself why. Is it just because you don't agree with their style? Do they make you feel insecure about yourself? Are they doing things that you secretly wish you could do yourself?
(to that last question, most fundy Christians secretly wish they could be gay) LOL!


I read that thread and your response before I read this. It does sicken me that because someone has issues some people see them as dogs and even state that their death was deserved. I can defiantly understand where you are coming from. Its horrible that this girl died, her having problems with her life holds no validity on her status as being a human being.

Years ago I may not have agreed. I may have said she got what she deserved etc from doing the drugs and what not. But years ago I was but a child mimicking the actions of those before me (not my parents, I was blessed with very good parents). It amazes me that in a few years I have managed to grow up at least a little bit but over 5 + decades many have not.

Now it is my turn for a quote that many commenting on the subject over at the zed may want to consider.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt9jAkWie4

[W3WN]

Sorry I'm late to the party. Long weekend.

I was saddened to hear the news.

Granted, who didn't see this train wreck coming? What a waste of talent. But seeing the inevitable happen doesn't make it any less sad.

It's a cautionary tale, but one that needs to be repeated periodically.

[ki4itv]

Introverts should absolutely, without a doubt, stay away from hard drugs. It really is that simple.
They usually implode, often walling themselves off from everyone but the most enabling friends and then drug tolerance will eventually send them into the unhealthy spiral, often unwittingly, of flirting with death.

Your typical artists are usually well practiced introverts, it's part of the creative process to dig within yourself and pull out part of your soul.

[K7SGJ]

Interesting to read the differing opinions. Personally, I think any untimely death is sad. (With a few exceptions) I wonder if people realize that the circumstances that took the lives of people like Winehouse, Hendrix, Elvis, Judy Garland, and a multitude of other famous people, happens to many regular everyday people on a daily basis. And, it would seem to me, both groups suffer the same hell. The only real difference being one of either obscurity or notoriety. I truly believe that anyone could suffer the same fate, given the same circumstances. Kick the butt of people with problems? The whole world would have brown tipped shoes. Maybe a little understanding, and reaching out of a helping hand is in order. It might not be a particularly violent solution, but then I'm not a particularly violent person.

[W3WN]

Interesting to read the differing opinions. Personally, I think any untimely death is sad. (With a few exceptions) I wonder if people realize that the circumstances that took the lives of people like Winehouse, Hendrix, Elvis, Judy Garland, and a multitude of other famous people, happens to many regular everyday people on a daily basis. And, it would seem to me, both groups suffer the same hell. The only real difference being one of either obscurity or notoriety. I truly believe that anyone could suffer the same fate, given the same circumstances. Kick the butt of people with problems? The whole world would have brown tipped shoes. Maybe a little understanding, and reaching out of a helping hand is in order. It might not be a particularly violent solution, but then I'm not a particularly violent person.Part of the issue, and I don't know if that's the case in this sad situation, is that those who are in the depths of addiction reject the offers of help. So many of those who offer that help end up giving up because they're tired of beating their heads against the proverbial wall.

In addition, in many cases of the famous or infamous (I'm thinking Elvis for one), they are so insulated, so surrounded by yes-men and similar sycophants, that no one dares tell them "No!" or gets them help or whatever. The entourage has them so effectively isolated that they are an indirect cause of the inevitable, as they help make it inevitable.

No easy answers.

[K7SGJ]

Part of the issue, and I don't know if that's the case in this sad situation, is that those who are in the depths of addiction reject the offers of help. So many of those who offer that help end up giving up because they're tired of beating their heads against the proverbial wall.

In addition, in many cases of the famous or infamous (I'm thinking Elvis for one), they are so insulated, so surrounded by yes-men and similar sycophants, that no one dares tell them "No!" or gets them help or whatever. The entourage has them so effectively isolated that they are an indirect cause of the inevitable, as they help make it inevitable.
No easy answers.

That's quite true. Perhaps this is one area where the common man has a leg up over the famous. I think your view on folks like Elvis is right on. M. Jackson also comes to mind. All that fame and fortune bought him was a Dr. that would supply him with most anything, including an early death.

[W5RB]

Introverts should absolutely, without a doubt, stay away from hard drugs. It really is that simple.
They usually implode, often walling themselves off from everyone but the most enabling friends and then drug tolerance will eventually send them into the unhealthy spiral, often unwittingly, of flirting with death.

Your typical artists are usually well practiced introverts, it's part of the creative process to dig within yourself and pull out part of your soul.

Yeah , people with strong , extroverted personalities , that are smarter than average , may be able to "outsmart" the drugs that drag others into the gutter , and regularly inject themselves with morphine , heroin , and such , while maintaining fully functional , happy lives . I'll bet you can cite us lots of cases .

[n2ize]

Interesting to read the differing opinions. Personally, I think any untimely death is sad. (With a few exceptions)

Who is to say what is an "untimely death" ? We can argue it is any death that occurs sooner than what we consider to be the average lifespan, but thats not saying much.

[W3WN]

Who is to say what is an "untimely death" ? We can argue it is any death that ocdurs sooner than what we consider to be the average lifespan, but thats not saying much.Fair enough.

Given that we are all going to die, one day... and that none of us knows when that day will come (except under very, very limited circumstances, of course... and the Governor can always commute...)... what is an untimely death?

I'd say one that is totally unexpected, unanticipated, and that had no prior warning.

For example, someone under the age of 30 with little or no medical history of illness, who suddenly dies due to accident or misadventure or a freak occurrence can be said to have died an untimely death. And I'm sure we can come up with more examples, if needed.

Considering that Amy Winehouse did have an illness of sorts... that is to say, the part of her that led to her becoming addicted to narcotics, alcohol, and other bad things... one could argue that her death wasn't untimely. Then again, despite her recent issues (see: her walking off the stage at her "comeback" performance a few weeks back), no one, except possibly those closest to her (who? good question) appeared to know that she had sunk so deeply into her personal demons that her demise became inevitable in the short term, and then did happen.

That someone with her talent didn't survive very long is very sad. "Untimely" may ultimately be a matter of opinion, but the fact that it happened is still unfortunate, to say the least.

[n2ize]

Part of the issue, and I don't know if that's the case in this sad situation, is that those who are in the depths of addiction reject the offers of help. So many of those who offer that help end up giving up because they're tired of beating their heads against the proverbial wall.

In addition, in many cases of the famous or infamous (I'm thinking Elvis for one), they are so insulated, so surrounded by yes-men and similar sycophants, that no one dares tell them "No!" or gets them help or whatever. The entourage has them so effectively isolated that they are an indirect cause of the inevitable, as they help make it inevitable.

No easy answers.

You just have to let it run its course. We all have our habits and addictions. They may kill us or they may not, or they may prevent us from killing ourselves in other ways. if a person finds they can't get through a day without drinking a quart of whiskey and they are so inclined to worry about what affect it may be having on their health then they are the only people who can deal with it. They have to want to stop or, if need be, get help to so so. Or, if possible they have to learn to drink in a more measured way...difficult when you are already used to having no limit. They are not going to listen to someone coming out of the blue and telling them that they should stop. It has to come from within the person themselves.

[n2ize]

Fair enough.

Given that we are all going to die, one day... and that none of us knows when that day will come (except under very, very limited circumstances, of course... and the Governor can always commute...)... what is an untimely death?

I'd say one that is totally unexpected, unanticipated, and that had no prior warning.

For example, someone under the age of 30 with little or no medical history of illness, who suddenly dies due to accident or misadventure or a freak occurrence can be said to have died an untimely death. And I'm sure we can come up with more examples, if needed.

Considering that Amy Winehouse did have an illness of sorts... that is to say, the part of her that led to her becoming addicted to narcotics, alcohol, and other bad things... one could argue that her death wasn't untimely. Then again, despite her recent issues (see: her walking off the stage at her "comeback" performance a few weeks back), no one, except possibly those closest to her (who? good question) appeared to know that she had sunk so deeply into her personal demons that her demise became inevitable in the short term, and then did happen.

That someone with her talent didn't survive very long is very sad. "Untimely" may ultimately be a matter of opinion, but the fact that it happened is still unfortunate, to say the least.

What exactly did she die from ? Overdose ? Organ failure ? Other illness ? I don;t know much about her.

[n2ize]

Yeah , people with strong , extroverted personalities , that are smarter than average , may be able to "outsmart" the drugs that drag others into the gutter , and regularly inject themselves with morphine , heroin , and such , while maintaining fully functional , happy lives . I'll bet you can cite us lots of cases .

It doesn;t matter if a person is introverted, extroverted or anything in between. Nor is the substance that the person is addicted to the real danger. the real danger of addictions is people. When you are addicted to something it is seen by others as a weakness. When you are addicted you are extremely vulnerable to others. There is something that you need and you will go to great lengths to get it. That make you easy to exploit. And believe me, you will be exploited. People like nothing more than to exploit and antagonize the addicted. Some because they can get the person to do things that they otherwise would not normally do. Others, because they enjoy the sense of power they have over others. Others will do it just for the kicks. They will make you wait, they will make you jump through every kind of hoop imaginable.. That is the real danger of addiction. It lies among those who surround the addicted person.

[W3WN]

What exactly did she die from ? Overdose ? Organ failure ? Other illness ? I don;t know much about her.I don't know if they've done an autopsy yet or not; I'm sure that if/when one is done, the results will be leaked.

If she didn't OD, my best guess is that the side effects of her addicitions, and how they weakened her system, led to her demise even if they weren't the direct cause.

I'm sure that the media hyenas will let us know soon enough.

[W5RB]

Officially , autopsy results are "inconclusive". Toxicology results are still pending , and reportedly may take weeks to get back . Dunno why so long , but whatever . Dead is dead. Except you can bet there will be one more album .

[W3WN]

Officially , autopsy results are "inconclusive". Toxicology results are still pending , and reportedly may take weeks to get back . Dunno why so long , but whatever . Dead is dead. Except you can bet there will be one more album ....and it will make millions. For her record label, her agent, and maybe her estate will get a few pennies too.

[ki4itv]

Yeah , people with strong , extroverted personalities , that are smarter than average , may be able to "outsmart" the drugs that drag others into the gutter , and regularly inject themselves with morphine , heroin , and such , while maintaining fully functional , happy lives . I'll bet you can cite us lots of cases .

You completely missed my point, but that's not uncommon for anyone. (not just you)

You would be surprised, Russ. The shear number of functional addicts would probably astound you. Why the rights own Rush Limbaugh carried a obviously severe opiate addiction around with him straight through his meteoric rise to stardom. His use was so staggering that it actually caused his hearing loss. (a known possible side effect of long term, heavy use BTW) There is your example of a smart extrovert using opium and keeping the hounds at bay. There is no doubt in my mind that he would still be using today if it wasn't for the inconvenient run-in with the law.

There are millions others, some of them are probably your friends or acquaintances. Rush is just the one that fit your specific parameters the best.
:)

[n2ize]

You completely missed my point, but that's not uncommon for anyone. (not just you)

You would be surprised, Russ. The shear number of functional addicts would probably astound you. Why the rights own Rush Limbaugh carried a obviously severe opiate addiction around with him straight through his meteoric rise to stardom. His use was so staggering that it actually caused his hearing loss. (a known possible side effect of long term, heavy use BTW) There is your example of a smart extrovert using opium and keeping the hounds at bay. There is no doubt in my mind that he would still be using today if it wasn't for the inconvenient run-in with the law.

There are millions others, some of them are probably your friends or acquaintances. Rush is just the one that fit your specific parameters the best.
:)

You are very correct. In theory an opium (heroin/morphine) addict can live a normal lifespan and remain quite functional because, the drug itself in the pure or relatively pure form causes very little or no known damage to the body. Quite the opposite of meth and alcohol which do cause definite damage over time. Provided the person doesn't OD or become ill from an infection from unsterile needles they can in theory remain perfectly functional and remain quite rational and normal in attitude, mindset and appearance. I have known and even worked with such people. In days gone by, and before these drugs were made illegal, there were many functional addicts who bought their daily fix from the drugstore and nobody was any the wiser and they remained productive, and upright members of their communities. There are even some prominent and accredited people throughout history who were opium / morphine addicts throughout much of their lives. Quite a few of them lived to be quite old.

These days we hear about it more because usually, sooner or later, a person who is a user will be picked up on some drug charge. Also, there is more harm associated with these types of drugs these days because of the illegality and the dangers of dealing with the black market, getting drugs of unknown purity or strength, and the desperation involved in paying the exceptionally high price to get a fix ad black market prices. In days gone by we rarely heard about it because the stuff was bought legally, it was usually of known strength and purity, there were no highly publicized arrests, etc.

Yet, there are still many functional opium addicts to this date. We have probably all met one or more of them but never knew.

[W5RB]

You completely missed my point, but that's not uncommon for anyone. (not just you)

You would be surprised, Russ. The shear number of functional addicts would probably astound you. Why the rights own Rush Limbaugh carried a obviously severe opiate addiction around with him straight through his meteoric rise to stardom. His use was so staggering that it actually caused his hearing loss. (a known possible side effect of long term, heavy use BTW) There is your example of a smart extrovert using opium and keeping the hounds at bay. There is no doubt in my mind that he would still be using today if it wasn't for the inconvenient run-in with the law.

There are millions others, some of them are probably your friends or acquaintances. Rush is just the one that fit your specific parameters the best.
:)

No , I wouldn't be surprised , trust me . While I have no formal schooling on the subject , let's just say I have some understanding gained from life experience and some seminars , of a sort . I've lost friends , lost count of how many , to opiate addiction . I understand how people fall in love with the stuff . i understand that they can be quite high-functioning , even artistic , and lovable , and all kinds of fun stuff . But in the long run , they care about nothing else . And they lie. They lie all the time , about pretty much anything . It's just sad .

Don't mistake this as a judgmental rant against all drug use . I turned 18 in '75 , and I had as much fun and adventure as most folks . And I made a conscious decision that fun at certain levels was just too costly . Anyway , I hope your paradigm continues to work for you . We should all be so lucky .

[n2ize]

No , I wouldn't be surprised , trust me . While I have no formal schooling on the subject , let's just say I have some understanding gained from life experience and some seminars , of a sort . I've lost friends , lost count of how many , to opiate addiction . I understand how people fall in love with the stuff . i understand that they can be quite high-functioning , even artistic , and lovable , and all kinds of fun stuff . But in the long run , they care about nothing else . And they lie. They lie all the time , about pretty much anything . It's just sad .

Most of what you describe comes not so much from the drug itself but from the illegality of the drug and the criminal element and the deep stigma's attached. take the part about the lying for example. Why do they lie ? Well, the first step is that in order to do what they are doing they must make a connection to the criminal world. They cannot tell anyone about that. They must keep that from their friends, families, employers, etc. they need to make up lies about where they were going, what they are doing, where they were for the four days they were in jail and nobody saw them. Next comes the highly inflated price they pay. 10, 20 dollars for a tiny fraction of a gram of powder that is so small most people wouldn't even notice it if it were sitting right in front of them. And if they are not right, or they are not working, or can't make enough money then come more lies. What happened to you car ? Where is that expensive camera, watch, ring, heirloom that you always had. What happened to this, that, the other thing. then come the lies to cover the negative stigma that comes, particularly with using that class of drugs. People who use that sort of stuff are dangerous, they are hardened criminals, they are thieves, they are capable of murder, they will steal everything, in the drug crazed state they will just keep taking more more more more and do anything imaginable to get it. of course many of these stigma's are highly exaggerated, some are even false. many are even afraid to get help because the first step in getting help means having to admit to someone... and often family, friends, etc. that they have been living this way of life. They are afraid that once they admit it they will be prevented from making that ever important connection that they need to make in order to feel normal and to function... they need to stave off that horrid feeling of withdraw.

What we really need to do is change the entire paradigm by which we deal with these issues. We need to dissolve the stigma's, eliminate the need for the criminal element, and enable the situation such that the person feels welcome to turn to others for help if they feel they have reached a point where they need help. Unfortunately I doubt that will ever happen. we can;t even get our act straight when it comes to dealing with marijuana. Forget about the harder stuff. There is too much money in prohibition and in keeping things the way they are.


Don't mistake this as a judgmental rant against all drug use . I turned 18 in '75 , and I had as much fun and adventure as most folks . And I made a conscious decision that fun at certain levels was just too costly . Anyway , I hope your paradigm continues to work for you . We should all be so lucky .


I dabbled with the stuff in my younger years as did many others I knew. It didn't take me long to understand why people like the stuff so much. seemed like the perfect formula for those warm summer nights in the park all night, talking about all sorts of things till the sun came up while nodding in and out of consciousness. Those were more adventuresome times. Now I crave that cup of coffee every morning.

[KG4CGC]

Update: http://www.spinner.com/2011/08/23/amy-winehouse-dead-no-illegal-drugs/?ncid=webmail18

[N8YX]

"No illegal drugs in her system".

Doesn't mean she wasn't loaded to the gills with prescription stuff.

[N6YG]

snip.... Having some sort of habit is a normal part of human nature. We are all addicted to something. Most of us are addicted to many things. I doubt I could be happy in life without being addicted to at least something or other. I doubt anyone could.

Yup I'll second that, I admit it !! I'm addicted to coffee, and have been for years. I'm way past French Roast! Oh yeah I've moved on to the "hard stuff" For me it's got to be Sumatran, Kenyan, Greek or Turkish coffee and none of that wimpy watered down American coffee for me :)

Heck I remember trying to quit once,. It only lasted three days but it was brutal. I swear It was the most sleep I think I ever gotten. For three days I don't think my eyes ever fully opened, It was as close to being in a coma as I ever care to experience again.:-D

Yeah you hear people complaining about Colombian drug lords all the time, you wanna know who the real Colombian drug lord is?! Juan Valdez, that's who!" Yeah people make a big deal about being able to buy a friggen joint on the street corner yet as far as they're probably concerned a StarBucks on every street corner's no problem :)

[NQ6U]

You here people complaining about Colombian drug lords all the time, you wanna know who the real Colombian drug lord is?! Juan Valdez, that's who!

I thought Valdez was Nicaraguan.

[w2amr]

It doesn;t matter if a person is introverted, extroverted or anything in between. Nor is the substance that the person is addicted to the real danger.
Not in the case of addiction to stupid.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0c6DfxZ3qZdCp/613x459.jpg?fit=scale&background=000000

[suddenseer]

Yup I'll second that, I admit it !! I'm addicted to coffee, and have been for years. I'm way past French Roast! Oh yeah I've moved on to the "hard stuff" For me it's got to be Sumatran, Kenyan, Greek or Turkish coffee and none of that wimpy watered down American coffee for me :)

Heck I remember trying to quit once,. It only lasted three days but it was brutal. I swear It was the most sleep I think I ever gotten. For three days I don't think my eyes ever fully opened, It was as close to being in a coma as I ever care to experience again.:-D

Yeah you hear people complaining about Colombian drug lords all the time, you wanna know who the real Colombian drug lord is?! Juan Valdez, that's who!" Yeah people make a big deal about being able to buy a friggen joint on the street corner yet as far as they're probably concerned a StarBucks on every street corner's no problem :)I have limited my intake of various intoxicants, sometimes 3-5 years in between uses. I CANNOT shake the coffee habit. I now limit myself to 2 cups in the morning at home before I leave for work. The days I have medical procedures that forbid eating, or drinking after midnight I always try to get the first appointment that day, because I break out in sweat, and a horrible headache by 10:00 am without my beloved coffee. When I quit smoking cigarettes, I did have cravings that stopped after a week. I have read that nicotine withdrawal is just as bad as heroin withdrawal. I have never tried heroin, but almost everything else that was available in the 70's. So far, King Caffeine is stronger than me, and I am a willing slave.;)

[kb2vxa]

"The new report does not detail why the singer died. Her family is awaiting the full investigation, which is set to begin in October."

Three months is an awfully long time for a corpse to lie around awaiting a full autopsy. Somebody tell me what's wrong with this picture?

[KG4CGC]

"The new report does not detail why the singer died. Her family is awaiting the full investigation, which is set to begin in October."

Three months is an awfully long time for a corpse to lie around awaiting a full autopsy. Somebody tell me what's wrong with this picture?
More than likely infighting over her estate, ie; residuals from record sales, videos etc.

[NA4BH]

"The new report does not detail why the singer died. Her family is awaiting the full investigation, which is set to begin in October."

Three months is an awfully long time for a corpse to lie around awaiting a full autopsy. Somebody tell me what's wrong with this picture?

I think she was buried on July 26. The medical examiners usually take tissue samples and other things to do the tests. They don't need the guest of honor after that.

[N6YG]

"The new report does not detail why the singer died. Her family is awaiting the full investigation, which is set to begin in October."

Three months is an awfully long time for a corpse to lie around awaiting a full autopsy. Somebody tell me what's wrong with this picture?

I think you are misinterpreting what they mean by "full investigation"

It's highly doubtful they are going to wait until October to do the autopsy or CSI, They might wait till October to review the collected data and evidence and begin the "official investigation" but that doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that the preliminary work hasn't begun. As a general rule when homicide is suspected an autopsy for obvious reasons is preformed as soon as possible. Furthermore when the authorities suspect homicide is involved and that foul play may be possible the case becomes a criminal investigation and the family losses any control over when and if an autopsy is performed.

[w2amr]

I have limited my intake of various intoxicants, sometimes 3-5 years in between uses. I CANNOT shake the coffee habit. I now limit myself to 2 cups in the morning at home before I leave for work. The days I have medical procedures that forbid eating, or drinking after midnight I always try to get the first appointment that day, because I break out in sweat, and a horrible headache by 10:00 am without my beloved coffee. When I quit smoking cigarettes, I did have cravings that stopped after a week. I have read that nicotine withdrawal is just as bad as heroin withdrawal. I have never tried heroin, but almost everything else that was available in the 70's. So far, King Caffeine is stronger than me, and I am a willing slave.;)

After years of addiction , I started having caffeine induced palpitations, so I started drinking this stuff in moderation.
http://www.amazon.com/Maxwell-House-caffeine-33-Ounce-Plastic/dp/B001EPQTBO
It's not too bad

[KG4CGC]

Has this been posted?
http://www.alternet.org/story/152164/are_we_killing_drug_addicts_like_amy_winehouse

[NQ6U]

Has this been posted?
http://www.alternet.org/story/152164/are_we_killing_drug_addicts_like_amy_winehouse

Nothing but claptrap from bleeding heart liberals. Addicts are weaklings.

[W5RB]

Has this been posted?
http://www.alternet.org/story/152164/are_we_killing_drug_addicts_like_amy_winehouse

What utter horse crap . Useful gains are not created by having some ill-informed family member or "expert" tell the addict "You can't help it , it's not your fault. Maybe if you just cut back a little , you wouldn't have to quit entirely . " New therapies claim that they can "cure" addiction . Maybe , but the proven success involves abstinence , combined with some form of spiritual discipline . And , whatever the cause , the effect is ultimately , and unavoidably , the addict's responsibility . That doesn't mean family and friends should stop loving an addict , but they should learn what's realistic to expect , and avoid chaining their own outcomes to a sinking stone .

[KG4CGC]

What utter horse crap . Useful gains are not created by having some ill-informed family member or "expert" tell the addict "You can't help it , it's not your fault. Maybe if you just cut back a little , you wouldn't have to quit entirely . " New therapies claim that they can "cure" addiction . Maybe , but the proven success involves abstinence , combined with some form of spiritual discipline . And , whatever the cause , the effect is ultimately , and unavoidably , the addict's responsibility . That doesn't mean family and friends should stop loving an addict , but they should learn what's realistic to expect , and avoid chaining their own outcomes to a sinking stone .
So, it goes completely counter to your belief.

[W5RB]

So, it goes completely counter to your belief.

Belief based on observation of success and failure of people known to me , and the counsel of those who have made the recovery of others their life's work . Whatever the root cause , the misery , and ultimate death , of an addict , is not caused by the reactions of people around him , but his own actions . You can debate whether those actions are by choice or not , but ultimately , only an active and aggressive choice to live will save the otherwise doomed life .

[KG4CGC]

You've never met my parents. They're deadly.

[X-Rated]

You've never met my parents. They're deadly.

Maybe my parent did. They're dead.

[KG4CGC]

The extreme scorn and disdain that an addict is met with in this country is the same approach they used for all aberration from what is considered normal and expected behavior. They were also conservative and always voted for the republican candidate.

[N7YA]

I kicked addictions of various types, my mom partied and never got addicted. Dad's sitting in prison in Texas because of his addictions. Like ive mentioned on here before, theres no cut and dried template for addiction, people are all different.

[KG4CGC]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-20125748-10391698/amy-winehouse-died-from-too-much-alcohol-coroner-says/

Update. Like we didn't kind of know.


(CBS/AP) LONDON - A coroner says that Amy Winehouse died as the unintended consequence of drinking too much alcohol.
Coroner Suzanne Greenaway gave a verdict of "death by misadventure," saying the singer had voluntarily consumed alcohol and risked the consequences

[K7SGJ]

Death by misadventure? That's a new one on me.

[KG4CGC]

Death by misadventure? That's a new one on me.
Gotta love the Brits!

[ab1ga]

Death by misadventure? That's a new one on me.

Basically, "accidental death"

[K7SGJ]

I'd rather think of what almost happened to Hansel and Gretel to be death by misadventure.

[W3WN]

I'd rather think of what almost happened to Hansel and Gretel to be death by misadventure.I thought the authorities had a case against the woman in the gingerbread house... but it crumbled...

[KG4CGC]

I thought the authorities had a case against the woman in the gingerbread house... but it crumbled...:cool2::rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

[NQ6U]

I thought the authorities had a case against the woman in the gingerbread house... but it crumbled...

And that was just the icing on the cake.

[ki4itv]

Death by misadventure? That's a new one on me.

Yea, It would look great on a grave marker.

[W5RB]

One definition of adventure , from the Wiktionary :
The encountering of risks; hazardous and striking enterprise; a bold undertaking, in which hazards are to be encountered, and the issue is staked upon unforeseen events; a daring feat.

By extension , one definition of misadventure could be : That risk and daring thing from above bites you in the ass .

Wiktionary offers this informative note :

A "death by misadventure" is the result of a lawful act executed carelessly or recklessly.