View Full Version : A little too strong?
Sent the following email out to a club station:
Whoever was using the station at around 13:30 UTC this morning on 5/16/2011 is apparently unfamiliar with proper operation of a transmitter when using USB at 14.350 Mhz. This is out of band operating.
Please inform your users of proper adherence to band limits and how a SSB transmitter works.
Thank you.
Opinions?
Sounds good to me. Did you put it on an OO notice?
Sounds good to me. Did you put it on an OO notice?
I'm not an OO. I just happened across the QSO.
Well Jim, first off, kudos for trying to do the right thing and keeping another op or ops out of trouble. That said...
Seems a little stern for a first time occurrance. Accurate, short & to the point, but stern.
Now if this is a recurring problem with one or more operators at the station in question, I wouldn't have a concern with it.
Are you the trustee for this station? That is also a factor. If you are, since it is YOUR ticket on the line when someone messes up, a stern warning or notification is definitely appropriate.
Not trying to bust your chops Jim, but if you come across like a crusty curmudgeon (even though you are 100% right), the message might get lost.
If I had been the one sending the message, I would have made it a little clearer that a 3 kHz wide SSB signal -- specifically USB -- cannot be transmitted with a (suppressed) "carrier" frequency above 14.347.0 MHz, or some or all of the signal will be out of band. My experience has been that a lot of "book" knowledge ops, when they first get active on HF, think that as long as the "carrier" frequency is in-band, they're copacetic. Of course, we know that they're not.
(That many DX hams get away with it is not germane to the situation, as they don't have to deal with the FCC. We do.)
The shame of the situation, too, is that while the FCC expects us to be a self-policing group, the very people we try to help in situation like this resent a 'frequency cop' telling them what to do. But that's another story.
That's a shame...the newbs I've seen that garner an OO notice usually manage to wet their pants.
ki4itv
05-16-2011, 08:59 AM
You've obviously never heard me working split on 40m huh? :rofl:
ki4itv
05-16-2011, 09:03 AM
It's 9:30 AM.
Do you know where your signal is?
Not trying to bust your chops Jim, but if you come across like a crusty curmudgeon (even though you are 100% right), the message might get lost.
If I had been the one sending the message, I would have made it a little clearer that a 3 kHz wide SSB signal -- specifically USB -- cannot be transmitted with a (suppressed) "carrier" frequency above 14.347.0 MHz, or some or all of the signal will be out of band. My experience has been that a lot of "book" knowledge ops, when they first get active on HF, think that as long as the "carrier" frequency is in-band, they're copacetic. Of course, we know that they're not.
Well, then I'm a "crusty curmudgeon". :-P
If you don't know how this stuff works, you shouldn't be operating it. JMHO. :irked:
Isn't this stuff on the test? If not, then we need to put it back. I've run into this kind of thing more times than I care to think of in the last several years. :irked:
Funny thing is the USB-at-the-top-of-the-band thing is not mentioned (or is it's LSB opposite at the bottom) on any of the tests. It should be, though, since it's not really obvious to a newbie.
KG4CGC
05-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Isn't this stuff on the test?yup
ka4dpo
05-16-2011, 09:40 AM
Well, then I'm a "crusty curmudgeon". :-P
If you don't know how this stuff works, you shouldn't be operating it. JMHO. :irked:
Isn't this stuff on the test? If not, then we need to put it back. I've run into this kind of thing more times than I care to think of in the last several years. :irked:
No I actually thought it was just right even a little tame perhaps. I would have added " Don't make me come up there and kick your butts".
But that's just me.
Well, then I'm a "crusty curmudgeon". :-P
If you don't know how this stuff works, you shouldn't be operating it. JMHO. :irked:
Isn't this stuff on the test? If not, then we need to put it back. I've run into this kind of thing more times than I care to think of in the last several years. :irked:I guess I'm more of the "attract more flies with honey" mindset, that's all.
I don't know offhand if it's on the test(s) -- and if it's not, IMHO, it should be. All I can tell you is that way back when, when I was teaching Novice, Tech and General classes at the local Community College, I covered this. Which is why there's a difference between "book" knowledge and "hands-on" knowledge.
IMHO, one of the unfortunate side effects, or unforseen consequences, of the easing of the overall test requirements has been the decrease in Elmering -- that is to say, the hands-on mentoring of the experienced ham to the newbie. There are too many new (or newly active) hams who crank the mic gain up on full, or operate close to the band edges, or jump on top of a QSO to blindly call the DX, etc. & so forth ad infinitum ad nauseum... not out of malicious intent (well, not most, anyway), but because they don't know better. And they don't know better because nobody ever told them or showed them.
If it's not covered in the Q&A book, or it's not required to be on the test, then they don't know.
And, sad to say, there are those newcomers who are actually arrogant enough... ok, that might be a bit strong, but you know what I mean... to not handle constructive criticism well if at all, because they know the book(s) and only the book(s), so what else do they need to know? They don't know enough to know better, or that they should know better.
If they survive, hopefully, they will learn. Of course, then there are those who survive but never learned. I could name a few calls, but then the denziens of, ah, other forums claim we're picking on them...
You've obviously never heard me working split on 40m huh? :rofl:
Everyone has screwed up operating split on that band. It's very easy to do.
During the major DX contests, you can always count on a handful of stations operating on or above 14.347. I can think of at least 5 calls -- a couple of Italians, a couple of Serbs, one Bulgarian come to mind as The Usual Suspects, but they're not alone.
Of course, every time, there are plenty of US & VE stations who work these guys. Probably never look at their VFO, just zero beat the signal and call.
There are several OO stations who do nothing during the contest but monitor these frequencies, and simply write down the time and call of the US/VE stations who violate the band edge.
Yeah, I got "burned" once, about 8 - 9 years ago. My own fault -- and I've watched for this ever since.
I can't remember the one guy's name/call offhand, but if you ever get an OO notice from New Jersey, you'll know who I mean. He has a unique, ah, "signature" -- uses postage stamps from the 1960's & 70's, which means lots of them (like seven 6 cent stamps).
Still, better an OO notice than a pink slip.
I remember back as the kg4rot, I had the greatest elm dude N2NFG, Bob Turner now SK. Always was doing shit, great chats about being a hammy in the 60's and 70's...loved a contest...a royal PITA at club meetings on field day set up. Anyway I didn't know crap so I hung out with him alot.
When I got General, which he helped me get... he got me to hang out with the Motley Crew on 75 somewhere. After I checked in (using /AG mind you) and was recognized, he started in on the "kg4rot is a tech" shit and then to and fro with the "he did /AG" yadda yadda between the nutters on and on. They were doing lookups and carried on for about an hour. I'm just listening and wondering WTF. He'd then go ROT what you think? Still sort of mic shy he kind of pulled me out. Had quite a bit of fun with that lot.
Got on 15m with him a couple days later and he started with the I hear something on 21.290 so I rolled down to listen, heard nothing..went back to 305 he told me to throw out my call on 290. I did and he came back and hammered my ass for being out of band as an /AG.
I still get nervous around the band edges.:-D
He always wanted to know what I worked what modes and such and always was great to help me through a new mode, but I checked out everything pre test cause I knew if he had a chance he would pounce on it.
He and Dave WB4EDA (also SK) used to painstakingly work me on 6m (with 2m phone fallback) cw at 1 to 2 wpm until I got to where I could pass 5wpm.
Bob always wanted me to put up a 600 ft vbeam and maybe one day I'll get er done for him.
I guess running through the test will get you the paper, but it was alot of these cranky assed OF's in background they made it fun and made stuff understandable in their own "special way". I got to where that getting yelled at was part of the game as well as RTFM and use your falking brain. Never bothered me much and hope not to repeat fuck ups than could really be avoided with a small investment in thought.
I don't see why anyone would have a problem being corrected about this or that. It's gonna be useful somewhere and if not what the hell.
rot
suddenseer
05-16-2011, 10:50 AM
That's a shame...the newbs I've seen that garner an OO notice usually manage to wet their pants.I was 16 when I received my first OO card. I apparently had a key click, or chirp. Scared the hell out of me. I called my elmer to meet me on 40m. He did not hear it. Maybe the OO had a chirp in his hearing aid.:dunno:
I am now trying for the worked all OO certificate.
Given this little notice (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-874A1.pdf) that came in today's FCC Daily Digest, you might be saving someone a lot of grief by informing him/her about operating out of band.
FYI, link is to a PDF.
KA9MOT
05-16-2011, 01:37 PM
Given this little notice (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-874A1.pdf) that came in today's FCC Daily Digest, you might be saving someone a lot of grief by informing him/her about operating out of band.
FYI, link is to a PDF.
DOH!!!!
ki4itv
05-16-2011, 01:58 PM
I had to look the freq up because I was curious why someone would choose something so far out of band.
26.715 el superbowl Hispano.
Couldn't help but notice the complaint of interference...and wondered what else would be operating there.
When a scofflaw interferes in the bowl and no one jeers. Did he really drop the maul?
Given this little notice (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-874A1.pdf) that came in today's FCC Daily Digest, you might be saving someone a lot of grief by informing him/her about operating out of band.
FYI, link is to a PDF.
:shock: :shock: I know who that is! :shock: :shock:
:shock: :shock: I know who that is! :shock: :shock:
Yeah, and that call rang a bell. I do believe he's been a baaaaaaaaaad boy.
ki4itv
05-16-2011, 02:17 PM
Did ring a bell. I think I see him in a lot of contest.
(No, please... that's not bait.)
I had to look the freq up because I was curious why someone would choose something so far out of band.
Couldn't help but notice the complaint of interference...and wondered what else would be operating there.
When a scofflaw interferes in the bowl and no one jeers. Did he really drop the maul?Four possibilities immediately come to mind:
-- A licensed user of the spectrum may have suffered, or noticed, interference. Including the military.
-- Someone may have been suffering from EMI, and in the course of the investigation, the improper operation was detected (even if it wasn't the transmissions related to the EMI)
-- Someone with an ax to grind got wind and reported him for illegal operation.
-- Some eager beaver in the FCC was monitoring the frequency listening for scofflaws. After all, it is a well known "free band" frequency. See http://www.bellscb.com/cb_radio_hobby/freebandfreqs.htm -- where they openly acknowledge that this is a common "free band" frequency, that users are not licensed, and that operation therein is illegal.
Sorry, no sympathy here. You operate illegally, you run the risk of being caught and fined. While the risk is low, it is there.
Besides... the schmuck lives in Philly. Almost in walking distance of the FCC office (yeah, I know it's not in the city anymore, it's out at a suburban mall in Langhorne, that's not the point). Do you really think they're going to ignore stuff like this right under their noses, when someone files a complaint?
I had to look the freq up because I was curious why someone would choose something so far out of band.
26.715 el superbowl Hispano.
Couldn't help but notice the complaint of interference...and wondered what else would be operating there.
When a scofflaw interferes in the bowl and no one jeers. Did he really drop the maul?
"El Superbowl Hispano", hah! It's a Spanish language freebanders (http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/715/)site, aimed primarily at Puerto Ricans.
26.71 is a CAP frequency.
No excuses.
ki4itv
05-16-2011, 04:01 PM
26.71 is a CAP frequency.
No excuses.
Oh. Well that's a pretty stupid place to be.
NA4BH
05-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Oh. Well that's a pretty stupid place to be.
Puerto Rico is really a nice place. Don't be hatin'. :whistle:
As a club trustee , I wouldn't be put of by the direct language . I'd find out who the offending op was , posthaste , counsel him , and reply letting you know that it'd been dealt with , and that it'd be further addressed at the next business meeting and in the next newsletter . Members of a club have a right to expect that they are not collectively being made to look like lids by such "unfamiliar" operation .
Puerto Rico is really a nice place. Don't be hatin'. :whistle:
I wish there were street views of the former NAS at Roosevelt Roads . From the overhead view , it looks like the house I lived in when I was 8 and 9 years old , is still intact . I can't tell if the rubber tree in the front yard remains or not .
kb2vxa
05-18-2011, 10:34 AM
"Still, better an OO notice than a pink slip."
That reminds me of one of Jean's stories on WOR, the OOs were slow on the uptake but the FCC wasn't; he got cited for harmonics.
"I can't remember the one guy's name/call offhand, but if you ever get an OO notice from New Jersey, you'll know who I mean."
Heh heh, he lived in Bergen County before retiring to Florida.
"Still, better an OO notice than a pink slip."
That reminds me of one of Jean's stories on WOR, the OOs were slow on the uptake but the FCC wasn't; he got cited for harmonics.
"I can't remember the one guy's name/call offhand, but if you ever get an OO notice from New Jersey, you'll know who I mean."
Heh heh, he lived in Bergen County before retiring to Florida.That's him! The term "Popkin-grams" sticks in my mind...
on edit: Of course. Dave Popkin W2CC. Notorious for monitoring phone DX operating at the band edges, especially during contests, just to nail those who stray out of band for just a moment.
And... if he's now in Florida, his mailing address is still in NJ. Unless he's got a mail drop arranged, what irony that such a strict by-the-book-don't-mess-with-me-kiddo OO hasn't bothered to update his FCC address as required in Part 97!
Several of Freddy's Favorite Freeband Freekencies (26.555, .715, 27.505, etc) have been veeeewwy quiet as of late - even when the band has been up. FWIW, there are a lot of Spanish speaking stations on these. One wonders just how domestic they actually are.
Sent the following email out to a club station:
Whoever was using the station at around 13:30 UTC this morning on 5/16/2011 is apparently unfamiliar with proper operation of a transmitter when using USB at 14.350 Mhz. This is out of band operating.
Please inform your users of proper adherence to band limits and how a SSB transmitter works.
Thank you.
Opinions?
Does this mean I can't use my Rigblaster PNP soundcard interface since it uses the USB port on my 'puter?
Does this mean I can't use my Rigblaster PNP soundcard interface since it uses the USB port on my 'puter?Exactly.
Send the unit to me, I'll properly dispose of it for you.
Several of Freddy's Favorite Freeband Freekencies (26.555, .715, 27.505, etc) have been veeeewwy quiet as of late - even when the band has been up. FWIW, there are a lot of Spanish speaking stations on these. One wonders just how domestic they actually are.
Update:
.715 is now jumping...and...several of the stronger stations do not appear to be DX.
:chin:
KG4CGC
05-18-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm about to sell a 5 pin Washington with freq. counter.
Anyone interested? Make an offer and see if I bite. :)
W1GUH
05-20-2011, 03:51 PM
Got a few OO notices as a novice...said he heard me on 7450. Guess what my crystal was? Didn't concern me a whole lot -- the locals knew the guy & he usually had a bug up his ass about this. I listened once & it was crowded with novices!!! Ancient history.
An 'rot --
You have room for a V-beam and you don't have one up? Should get an OO notice about that! ;) Just kiddin', of course, but I'd give my left n*t (don't use 'em much anyway) to play in that kind of wire antenna league!
Got a few OO notices as a novice...said he heard me on 7450. Guess what my crystal was? Didn't concern me a whole lot -- the locals knew the guy & he usually had a bug up his ass about this. I listened once & it was crowded with novices!!! Ancient history.
An 'rot --
You have room for a V-beam and you don't have one up? Should get an OO notice about that! ;) Just kiddin', of course, but I'd give my left n*t (don't use 'em much anyway) to play in that kind of wire antenna league!
Yeah..I'm sitting on a 700 x 700 ft square...ca 12 acres...a bunch of 80 ft pine trees and such. A wiremans dream. I'm down to only 1 delta loop cut to 3.6 mHz now but had a many as four and bunch of dipoles. I've been in an AR null for a couple of years, but starting to get the itch back, so I'm hoping to get Bob's memorial v up this winter. Just a matter of me getting my azz in gear.
rot
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