Perplexing Computer Problem

[N1LAF]

I have a perplexing computer problem, and maybe some of you guys can help me out.

I am dealing with a number of Dell Xeon workstations (newer) with 2 quad core processors and 8 to 24 GB of memory.

The programs refused to work on a Dell Precision laptops, with an I7 quad core, but ran on a laptop with an I7 core, and Windows 7 64 bit.

The 8GB is running Windows XP Pro (32 bit)
The 24GB is running Windows 7

Both do not run/load 1/2 of commercial programs, stuff that would run on previous systems. These programs are Win2K/WinXP compatible.

But when running Windows 7 in VMware, these programs load and run on windows 7.

I am vaguely remembering in days long past that I had to limit memory size, either by a config file or BIOS, to get programs to run properly.

I would like to build a new computer system, but do not want to build something that will refuse to run 1/2 of my programs.

Any suggestions/reasons for this?

Anyone with a newer Gigabyte motherboard and an I7 quad processor?

[PA5COR]

/3G switch? in your boot.ini for XP-Pro? You use /3GB to give apps access to more than 2 GB of virtual address space or, /PAE switch if your version of XP supports that, normally Xp 32 bit only supports 3 Gb mem, and needs the rest for PCI cards etc.
PCI reserves some RAM after you install more than 3GB in a machine. It's the way it is and nothing you can do about it. It should increase I/O performance, IIRC, by reserving some RAM for PCI stuff.

AAs i found out the /3GB switch isn't going to change anything for you, please don't use it unless you know exactly what it does. It WILL NOT allow the OS to use all 4GB of RAM.

If you run XP-Pro however, the "/PAE" switch might help here. Add it to the end of your boot.ini line and report back on the visible RAM, because you have 8 Gig ram that switch would work.

But then, i'm ( not anymore) an computer geek...

[N1LAF]

Thanks Cor, and I'll take any help I can get, and will give this a try.

[NQ6U]

A 32-bit system won't address more that 4GB of RAM. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[N1LAF]

A 32-bit system won't address more that 4GB of RAM. Maybe that has something to do with it?

On the Dell Precision workstation (690) with two dual-core Xeon processors and 4 GB memory works fine with Windows XP and all programs. Solid and FAST. What would take 33 minutes to compile (firmware) on a standard Dell desktop takes less than 3 minutes on the workstation. Windows reports using 3.25 GB of memory.

On of the things I will try is reduce ram from 24 GB to 4 GB and see if that makes a difference.

What is interesting, is that on Windows 7, program installs just dies, no messages.

[N9FE]

Makes my brain hurt.. Good thing you guys are around.

[WA4TM]

Hell, I'm just trying to figure out what language they are speaking....:mrgreen:
They lost me in the second sentence in the original post!!!!!:lol:


Makes my brain hurt.. Good thing you guys are around.

[KC2UGV]

Are these 32 bit Apps, or 64 Bit Apps?

[N1LAF]

Are these 32 bit Apps, or 64 Bit Apps?

32 bit apps. These programs run fine except these Dell Precision computers, and I suspect memory issues, but not sure. Like I said, they run under windows 7 in VMware just fine, with 1 gig assigned as memory. On monday, I will change the memory settings to see if it is memory size sensitive in VMware.

[KC2UGV]

32 bit apps. These programs run fine except these Dell Precision computers, and I suspect memory issues, but not sure. Like I said, they run under windows 7 in VMware just fine, with 1 gig assigned as memory. On monday, I will change the memory settings to see if it is memory size sensitive in VMware.

Most likely, the 32 apps were not written to accommodate a 64 bit OS (It depends on too many hardware calls). Also, more the 4GB could cause a range of things for poorly written 32 bit apps, from "Nothing" (Rather well designed apps) to just outright installer failing, or segfaults.

[N1LAF]

Most likely, the 32 apps were not written to accommodate a 64 bit OS (It depends on too many hardware calls). Also, more the 4GB could cause a range of things for poorly written 32 bit apps, from "Nothing" (Rather well designed apps) to just outright installer failing, or segfaults.

You are restating the problem. I am looking for solutions.
1. They do run on Windows 7, 64bit OS on an I7 quad core with 4GB
2. They do run on VMware with Windows 7, 64bit OS
3. They did not run on the same computer as the VMware with Windows 7, 64 bit OS with 24GB RAM
4. They did not run on a Dell Precision T5400 with Windows XP pro 32 bit with 8GB of RAM

[KC2UGV]

You are restating the problem. I am looking for solutions.
1. They do run on Windows 7, 64bit OS on an I7 quad core with 4GB
2. They do run on VMware with Windows 7, 64bit OS
3. They did not run on the same computer as the VMware with Windows 7, 64 bit OS with 24GB RAM
4. They did not run on a Dell Precision T5400 with Windows XP pro 32 bit with 8GB of RAM

VMWare is not truly a computer. There is an abstraction layer between the physical machine, and the virtual one. This abstraction layer is "better" than real hardware sometimes.

The solution: Install a 32 Bit OS, with a max of 4GB of RAM (The maximum addressable by a 32 Bit OS), in which to run 32 bit apps.

In other words: Reduce the amount of RAM in the 32 Bit OS install to 4GB.

[n6hcm]

if you're running win7, try running these programs in "xp mode" ...

[N1LAF]

if you're running win7, try running these programs in "xp mode" ...
Still fails

[n6hcm]

are those programs perhaps dependent on admin access (if you turned off uac on a windows 7 system you may be using programs which require admin access ... they'll work just like on win xp)?

right-click on the program icon and select "run as administrator" ...

[WØTKX]

I've never been much of a programmer, except for AutoLisp and a little database work... but I remember a lot of issues when Windows went from 16 bit to 32 bit. So called "thunking" was the issue, and many programs needed to be tweaked to make them run on the 32 bit platform. It created a lot of heartburn for a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunk_%28compatibility_mapping%29

Mind you, this is only a guess, but maybe a little poking around in the MSDN website might help...

WOW64 Implementation Details (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384274%28v=vs.85%29.aspx)

Windows on Windows can be quite bizarre. WOW.

http://www.motorsportsartist.com/nogod/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cleareye.jpg

[N1LAF]

are those programs perhaps dependent on admin access (if you turned off uac on a windows 7 system you may be using programs which require admin access ... they'll work just like on win xp)?

right-click on the program icon and select "run as administrator" ...

Here is the thing... the problem also occurs on a 8GB Dell T5400 Precision system running 32bit Windows XP Pro SP3

[NQ6U]

It's, like, bad karma, man.

[n6hcm]

Here is the thing... the problem also occurs on a 8GB Dell T5400 Precision system running 32bit Windows XP Pro SP3

that doesn't address my point. if the user on that system doesn't have admin that might keep them from running an application that depends on it.

[KC2UGV]

Here is the thing... the problem also occurs on a 8GB Dell T5400 Precision system running 32bit Windows XP Pro SP3

You are ignoring the major glaring issue: More than 4GB installed in a 32 bit OS... I've already filled you in on the resolution: Drop the installed RAM to 4GB, or upgrade to a 64 Bit OS.

Windows really does not like playing with things outside the realm of normality. Linux (32 bit) would just ignore it. Windows (32 bit) tries to do mapping, fails horribly.

[N1LAF]

that doesn't address my point. if the user on that system doesn't have admin that might keep them from running an application that depends on it.

Since I am logged in as admin, I should be able to install programs

[N1LAF]

You are ignoring the major glaring issue: More than 4GB installed in a 32 bit OS... I've already filled you in on the resolution: Drop the installed RAM to 4GB, or upgrade to a 64 Bit OS.

Windows really does not like playing with things outside the realm of normality. Linux (32 bit) would just ignore it. Windows (32 bit) tries to do mapping, fails horribly.

We have the same problem with a T5500 running 64 bit Windows 7 and 24 GB of ram, but running 64 bit Windows 7 in a VMware window on the same system works fine.

[KC2UGV]

We have the same problem with a T5500 running 64 bit Windows 7 and 24 GB of ram, but running 64 bit Windows 7 in a VMware window on the same system works fine.

Yes, with a 32 bit application, on a 64 bit OS, with more than 4GB of RAM, you will have that problem. The solution: Use a 64 Bit App, on a 64 Bit OS, with >4GB of RAM; or use a 32 bit App, on the OS of choice, with <4GB of RAM.

[N1LAF]

Yes, with a 32 bit application, on a 64 bit OS, with more than 4GB of RAM, you will have that problem. The solution: Use a 64 Bit App, on a 64 Bit OS, with >4GB of RAM; or use a 32 bit App, on the OS of choice, with <4GB of RAM.

That will be the next step, reduce RAM to 4GB

[N1LAF]

I have a perplexing computer problem, and maybe some of you guys can help me out.

I am dealing with a number of Dell Xeon workstations (newer) with 2 quad core processors and 8 to 24 GB of memory.

The programs refused to work on a Dell Precision laptops, with an I7 quad core, but ran on a laptop with an I7 core, and Windows 7 64 bit.

The 8GB is running Windows XP Pro (32 bit)
The 24GB is running Windows 7

Both do not run/load 1/2 of commercial programs, stuff that would run on previous systems. These programs are Win2K/WinXP compatible.

But when running Windows 7 in VMware, these programs load and run on windows 7.

I am vaguely remembering in days long past that I had to limit memory size, either by a config file or BIOS, to get programs to run properly.

I would like to build a new computer system, but do not want to build something that will refuse to run 1/2 of my programs.

Any suggestions/reasons for this?

Anyone with a newer Gigabyte motherboard and an I7 quad processor?

I found a BIOS setting that allows the programs to run, but the programs are not stable (crashes). The setting was to Disable Multiple Core Support. Hyperthreading option had no effect. The T5500 has the ability to change core support, the T4500 doesn't.