This is EXACTLY why I hate cops and their toys

[WX7P]

Old video, but dammit. This should not happen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqbmasNeOmM&feature=related

[n2ize]

Right off the bat I saw several things that justify the tasing. First, the cop had to ask him more than once for his license and registration. The scop should only have to ask once. Second, I couldn't hear the exact words but it sounded like he was giving the cop some lip. Finally the cop writes out the ticket, presents it to the driver, and instead of accepting the ticket the perp starts giving the cop a hard time. Finally the cop tells him to get out of the car and put his hands behind his back. Instead of complying he tells the cop "you're crazy" and starts walking away. Is this guy an idiot ? What do you expect to happen if a cop tells you to do something and not only do you not comply but you tell him he's nuts and then do the exact opposite of what you are told ? I would say that the perp is lucky. he's lucky he didn't receive a headbust or a shooting.

When a cop tells you to do something you DO IT!! You don't say "what" ? or "huh ?", or "Yo", or "You're crazy ?" You do what you are told to do immediately or else you face arrest, a tasing, a beating, or a shooting for non-compliance. If you don't like what the cop is doing you hash it out in court. Not on the field.

My God, even after he is tazed and handcuffed he is still disobeying orders and acting like an ass. Is this guy looking to get shot ? Does he want to die ? I can hardly believe this video is real. I can't believe anyone can be so belligerent and stupid.

[W3MIV]

This sort of thing is getting worse by the year. The federal government has been supplying police and sheriff's departments with more and more military weaponry as well as high-technology surveillance and monitoring equipment. For all the hype and bullshit about "liberty," the US is being steadily turned into a third-world police state in preparation for a time when food, energy and fuel reach the "dispute" levels and society starts to come apart.

Think "Kent State" on a grander scale.

[n2ize]

This sort of thing is getting worse by the year. The federal government has been supplying police and sheriff's departments with more and more military weaponry as well as high-technology surveillance and monitoring equipment. For all the hype and bullshit about "liberty," the US is being steadily turned into a third-world police state in preparation for a time when food, energy and fuel reach the "dispute" levels and society starts to come apart.

Think "Kent State" on a grander scale.

It's not Kent state. It;s a case of a moron who refused to follow orders. You don;t act that way when the cops tell you to do something. Is the guy crazy ?

[WV6Z]

Agreeing with IZE on this one. Sometimes it's just better to follow the instructions, likely save your own life and call your lawyer in the morning. Getting tazed would been the least of that guys problems around here...... around here, he would have been very lucky to have even made it to jail. That had to be the stupidest move I have ever seen made by a complete dumbass that was being harassed by a thug that needs to look for a different career. If the stress of being on the job is working on you that much when your beat is in the middle of nowhere, you have serious mental issues.

[NQ6U]

Right off the bat I saw several things that justify the tasing.

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/gyrogeerloose/wajt.png

Worked
All
John
Trolls!

[WX7P]

Right off the bat I saw several things that justify the tasing. First, the cop had to ask him more than once for his license and registration. The scop should only have to ask once. Second, I couldn't hear the exact words but it sounded like he was giving the cop some lip. Finally the cop writes out the ticket, presents it to the driver, and instead of accepting the ticket the perp starts giving the cop a hard time. Finally the cop tells him to get out of the car and put his hands behind his back. Instead of complying he tells the cop "you're crazy" and starts walking away. Is this guy an idiot ? What do you expect to happen if a cop tells you to do something and not only do you not comply but you tell him he's nuts and then do the exact opposite of what you are told ? I would say that the perp is lucky. he's lucky he didn't receive a headbust or a shooting.

When a cop tells you to do something you DO IT!! You don't say "what" ? or "huh ?", or "Yo", or "You're crazy ?" You do what you are told to do immediately or else you face arrest, a tasing, a beating, or a shooting for non-compliance. If you don't like what the cop is doing you hash it out in court. Not on the field.

My God, even after he is tazed and handcuffed he is still disobeying orders and acting like an ass. Is this guy looking to get shot ? Does he want to die ? I can hardly believe this video is real. I can't believe anyone can be so belligerent and stupid.

OK, I'll bite.

Asshole cop, out of control. Period.

Add to that, stupid Utah cop lying to his sheriff bud.

I have to agree with Carlo. What's with the trolling? It's boring and it's stupid.

[w2amr]

If he signed the ticket, he is on his way. But no, he is going to act like dick and force the cop's hand. Another example of somebody who thinks the rules only apply to other people.

[n2ize]

OK, I'll bite.

Asshole cop, out of control. Period.

Add to that, stupid Utah cop lying to his sheriff bud.

I have to agree with Carlo. What's with the trolling? It's boring and it's stupid.

The point is, as others here have pointed out, is that when a cop tells you to stand in a spot and put your hands behind you he MEANS BUSINESS !! It doesn't mean walk away it means stand there and to what you are told. It doesn't matter if you feel that the cop is wrong. The cop has the upper hand and the authority and you are to do what you are told. If you want to fight the charge then you do it afterwards in court. For your own good you don't challenge the law in the field. I'll say it again. This guy is LUCKY. In many places he would have gotten a lot more than a simple tazing.

[W3MIV]

It's nice to know we have some well-trained citizens here. Perhaps dance lessons in goose-stepping are next?

[n2ize]

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/gyrogeerloose/wajt.png

Worked
All
John
Trolls!

Think it's a troll ? Then try acting the way this guy did if you are ever stopped by the cops. Try walking away when a cop is placing you under arrest or disrespecting his authority. In most places you'll be tasting asphalt and concrete.

[W3MIV]

Think it's a troll ? Then try acting the way this guy did if you are ever stopped by the cops. Try walking away when a cop is placing you under arrest or disrespecting his authority. In most places you'll be tasting asphalt and concrete.

So, by your eager advocacy of repressive police measures, one must assume that you would support another expansion of the powers of DHS.

[WØTKX]

I have had my vehicle searched twice by angry cops in my neighborhood. I agreed to the searches, as I had nothing to hide.

Once with my older van, I had a piece of furniture and boxes in the back. Was accused of being a thief, and the reason given was out of state plates on the van... I had just purchased it, but had the proper insurance on it, with proof. Did not matter. The furniture actually helped, as I did have a receipt from the second hand store I had purchased it from.

Second time, attention was on me because I was driving my Integra with a temporary plate. I moved quickly away from an idiot that had crossed into my lane, and honked loudly. I was accused of "road rage", and my car is considered a gang banger car. Even though I memorized the plate number ( always do that) of the idiot driver, the cop cuffed me and put me in the back seat. Again, I had all the paper work. Complaints to the Denver Police were met with silence.

The cop was convinced I was a gang banger with my car, even though it's not tricked out. Was shocked to find a 50+ white guy with a clean record. He did not apologize, and gave me the reason as I'm asking for it by driving a vehicle like that. Oh, and he came up to me with his holster unsnapped, speaking in Spanish. I was really pissed, and answered in German, this made him very angry. He did not see the offending vehicle, or claimed he did not.

You must comply, you must goosestep first. I want a camera in my car to record shit like this. :rant:

[KC2UGV]

This sort of thing is getting worse by the year. The federal government has been supplying police and sheriff's departments with more and more military weaponry as well as high-technology surveillance and monitoring equipment. For all the hype and bullshit about "liberty," the US is being steadily turned into a third-world police state in preparation for a time when food, energy and fuel reach the "dispute" levels and society starts to come apart.

Think "Kent State" on a grander scale.

What do you expect when the lobbying groups like the NRA are trying to get military weaponry in the hands of every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the US? You expect the cops to be armed with a pea-shooter, when faced with a person who has a truckload of military weaponry bought from the back of a truck in a "Private Sale"?

[WX7P]

What do you expect when the lobbying groups like the NRA are trying to get military weaponry in the hands of every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the US? You expect the cops to be armed with a pea-shooter, when faced with a person who has a truckload of military weaponry bought from the back of a truck in a "Private Sale"?

Whoa, that's a reach in the context of this thread, not that I disagree with you.

My point in all this hoo-ha over "obeying" officer Jon is the guy was completely and totally unprofessional. There was absolutely NO provocation that warranted a taser incident. Jon Gardner is a bully and has no business carrying around a gun and a badge. If he had one ounce of professionalism, this wouldn't have happened. He was cleared by his superiors, BTW. Cops, even in so-called law and order Utah, watch out for themselves. I loved how Officer Gardner lied to the sheriff deputy at the end of the video. What a piece of shit.

These guys live in a culture where it is now ok to push people around. Everyone is a perp. Even in my beloved state of California, the Highway Patrol has been taken over by yahoos like this Gardner clown. He should have been fired for this incident.

And John, your trolling got boring a long time ago. Give it a rest.

[KC2UGV]

Whoa, that's a reach in the context of this thread, not that I disagree with you.

My point in all this hoo-ha over "obeying" officer Jon is the guy was completely and totally unprofessional. There was absolutely NO provocation that warranted a taser incident. Jon Gardner is a bully and has no business carrying around a gun and a badge. If he had one ounce of professionalism, this wouldn't have happened. He was cleared by his superiors, BTW. Cops, even in so-called law and order Utah, watch out for themselves. I loved how Officer Gardner lied to the sheriff deputy at the end of the video. What a piece of shit.

These guys live in a culture where it is now ok to push people around. Everyone is a perp. Even in my beloved state of California, the Highway Patrol has been taken over by yahoos like this Gardner clown. He should have been fired for this incident.

And John, your trolling got boring a long time ago. Give it a rest.

These guys [LEO's] live in a culture of being hated by the very public they are serving; and also one of every day is another chance to not come home.

[WX7P]

I have had my vehicle searched twice by angry cops in my neighborhood. I agreed to the searches, as I had nothing to hide.

Once with my older van, I had a piece of furniture and boxes in the back. Was accused of being a thief, and the reason given was out of state plates on the van... I had just purchased it, but had the proper insurance on it, with proof. Did not matter. The furniture actually helped, as I did have a receipt from the second hand store I had purchased it from.

Second time, attention was on me because I was driving my Integra with a temporary plate. I moved quickly away from an idiot that had crossed into my lane, and honked loudly. I was accused of "road rage", and my car is considered a gang banger car. Even though I memorized the plate number ( always do that) of the idiot driver, the cop cuffed me and put me in the back seat. Again, I had all the paper work. Complaints to the Denver Police were met with silence.

The cop was convinced I was a gang banger with my car, even though it's not tricked out. Was shocked to find a 50+ white guy with a clean record. He did not apologize, and gave me the reason as I'm asking for it by driving a vehicle like that. Oh, and he came up to me with his holster unsnapped, speaking in Spanish. I was really pissed, and answered in German, this made him very angry. He did not see the offending vehicle, or claimed he did not.

You must comply, you must goosestep first. I want a camera in my car to record shit like this. :rant:

I have ridden in the Davemobile. It's an old white Integra with a bunch of junk in the backseat, hardly a threat to society. The cop probably thought it was a bangermobile because it doesn't have hubcaps. Dave is about as white as pre-dyed Wisconsin margarine. What he described is some poorly trained dumbass cop making an assumption based on a vehicle. What a disgrace. You expect this BS from small town crackers, not in a metro like Denver.

[KC2UGV]

I have ridden in the Davemobile. It's an old white Integra with a bunch of junk in the backseat, hardly a threat to society. The cop probably thought it was a bangermobile because it doesn't have hubcaps. Dave is about as white as pre-dyed Wisconsin margarine. What he described is some poorly trained dumbass cop making an assumption based on a vehicle. What a disgrace. You expect this BS from small town crackers, not in a metro like Denver.

More so in Denver, sadly. That vehicle is a sign of a "darkie" inside, and we can't have them 'round these parts...

[KA9MOT]

It's not Kent state. It;s a case of a moron who refused to follow orders. You don;t act that way when the cops tell you to do something. Is the guy crazy ?

YES! How dare he stand up for his rights and try to reasonably discuss his side of the argument.....DAMN SCOFFLAW!

[WX7P]

These guys [LEO's] live in a culture of being hated by the very public they are serving; and also one of every day is another chance to not come home.

Horseshit, Corey. They create that environment by the way they interact with the public.

I've seen good policing. The Berkeley, CA PD has a lot to handle. You NEVER see any of this kind of overreaction from them, in contrast to the University of California PD, who are a bunch of zitfaced proto-fascists. The UCPD is not interested in community policing, they just want to kick ass, which appears to be the trend nationwide.

[KC2UGV]

Horseshit, Corey. They create that environment by the way they interact with the public.

I've seen good policing. The Berkeley, CA PD has a lot to handle. You NEVER see any of this kind of overreaction from them, in contrast to the University of California PD, who are a bunch of zitfaced proto-fascists. The UCPD is not interested in community policing, they just want to kick ass, which appears to be the trend nationwide.

Are you ever happy when a police officer pulls you over?

Are you ever happy when the police show up at your party?

Even though, in both cases, they are just doing their jobs?

Nobody likes police officers. However, everybody is quick to call them when they have a problem.

[WX7P]

Are you ever happy when a police officer pulls you over?

Are you ever happy when the police show up at your party?

Even though, in both cases, they are just doing their jobs?

Nobody likes police officers. However, everybody is quick to call them when they have a problem.

You're missing the point.

Officer Gardner, if he had a shred of professionalism about him, could have defused that situation without having to whip out his taser. I think some of these guys pray for the chance to get macho and zap someone. The guy in the video wasn't exactly a threat.

Like I said previously, the Berkeley PD defuses stuff DAILY without having to use force, and we're talking crackheads etc., not Joe Citizen who's pissed about a traffic ticket.

[KC2UGV]

You're missing the point.

Officer Gardner, if he had a shred of professionalism about him, could have defused that situation without having to whip out his taser. I think some of these guys pray for the chance to get macho and zap someone. The guy in the video wasn't exactly a threat.

Like I said previously, the Berkeley PD defuses stuff DAILY without having to use force, and we're talking crackheads etc., not Joe Citizen who's pissed about a traffic ticket.

No, I'm not missing the point, I'm extrapolating my experiences in Iraq, where I encounter a similar environment, and how I reacted. I was not hesitant about putting someone's dick in the dirt; because even though I was supposed to be protecting the civilian population there, the cities where soldiers were welcomed and a happy sight were few and far between. And, always a good chance one of those civilians who showed an outright distaste for us being there will pull a gun, and kill me; thereby, preventing me from seeing my kids and wife again.

It's the same with cops. They never know who is going to pull a gun on them, and every individual who is uncooperative is liable to get arrested, maced, tazed, and yes: Shot and killed. If you're an asshole to a cop, expect a very quick escalation of force. The cop is, after all, just trying to stay alive for one more day.

[KA9MOT]

Are you ever happy when a police officer pulls you over?

Are you ever happy when the police show up at your party?

Even though, in both cases, they are just doing their jobs?

Nobody likes police officers. However, everybody is quick to call them when they have a problem.

Weak at best.

[KC2UGV]

Weak at best.

Demonstrates my point very clearly. Nobody is happy when the cops arrive. Cops are hated for doing the very job they swore to do.

[KA9MOT]

No, I'm not missing the point, I'm extrapolating my experiences in Iraq, where I encounter a similar environment, and how I reacted. I was not hesitant about putting someone's dick in the dirt; because even though I was supposed to be protecting the civilian population there, the cities where soldiers were welcomed and a happy sight were few and far between. And, always a good chance one of those civilians who showed an outright distaste for us being there will pull a gun, and kill me; thereby, preventing me from seeing my kids and wife again.

It's the same with cops. They never know who is going to pull a gun on them, and every individual who is uncooperative is liable to get arrested, maced, tazed, and yes: Shot and killed. If you're an asshole to a cop, expect a very quick escalation of force. The cop is, after all, just trying to stay alive for one more day.

Even Weaker...... You can not compare situations in a war zone with policing your own citizens.

The cop is after-all, just trying to stay alive for another day. That argument is weak. Cops aren't even on the top 10 list of most dangerous jobs and they know going into the job what the risks are. How many Convenience Store Clerks know going into the job that their profession is on the Top 10 list. I think the guy at your local Mini-Market should be allowed to wear a gun and shoot anybody who does not follow his orders. Clerk, "Buy a Slurpy or I'm gonna make you pay sucka!"

[KC2UGV]

Even Weaker...... You can not compare situations in a war zone with policing your own citizens.


Sure you can. Same mission: Protect the citizens, and maintain order. It was the last half of the time I was in Iraq. A police mission.



The cop is after-all, just trying to stay alive for another day. That argument is weak. Cops aren't even on the top 10 list of most dangerous jobs and they know going into the job what the risks are. How many Convenience Store Clerks know going into the job that their profession is on the Top 10 list. I think the guy at your local Mini-Market should be allowed to wear a gun and shoot anybody who does not follow his orders. Clerk, "Buy a Slurpy or I'm gonna make you pay sucka!"

I'm sure it's weak. You ever been in law enforcement in a large city? And, are convenience store clerks public servants, who are sworn to maintain law and order?

[KA9MOT]

Demonstrates my point very clearly. Nobody is happy when the cops arrive. Cops are hated for doing the very job they swore to do.

Corey, as a former trucker who has been pulled over many times over my 26 year career, I never, ever hated any cop. I accepted the tickets I deserved, and loudly protested those I did not. I remember a time in the 1980s that I was travelling with 13 other identical company trucks in Ohio (Just happened we all pulled out of the terminal together) and all were driving 65MPH trucks. A Trooper claimed an airplane singled me out at 70MPH going uphill...........

I protested loudly and righteously to both Cop and Judge. I was forced to pay the $50 fine to keep my license. I did not hate the cop or the judge.......I just know they are thieves. I even thanked the thieving bastards.

[KC2UGV]

Corey, as a former trucker who has been pulled over many times over my 26 year career, I never, ever hated any cop. I accepted the tickets I deserved, and loudly protested those I did not. I remember a time in the 1980s that I was travelling with 13 other identical company trucks in Ohio (Just happened we all pulled out of the terminal together) and all were driving 65MPH trucks. A Trooper claimed an airplane singled me out at 70MPH going uphill...........

I protested loudly and righteously to both Cop and Judge. I was forced to pay the $50 fine to keep my license. I did not hate the cop or the judge.......I just know they are thieves. I even thanked the thieving bastards.

Yep, you don't hate them. You just consider them thieving bastards... Uh-huh...

[KA9MOT]

Sure you can. Same mission: Protect the citizens, and maintain order. It was the last half of the time I was in Iraq. A police mission.



I'm sure it's weak. You ever been in law enforcement in a large city? And, are convenience store clerks public servants, who are sworn to maintain law and order?

Your argument, is that the cop is right to do what he has to do to stay alive. Surely this same argument has to apply to Joe Blow. Is Joe worth any less to his family then that same cop, regardless of where he lives?

[KA9MOT]

Yep, you don't hate them. You just consider them thieving bastards... Uh-huh...

Only those 2 and maybe the guy in the airplane (If there was one) and no, being angry because somebody robbed you is not the same as hate.

BTW, the only parties we have are family get togethers and if a cop were to show up somebody would hand him a beer.

[KC2UGV]

Your argument, is that the cop is right to do what he has to do to stay alive. Surely this same argument has to apply to Joe Blow. Is Joe worth any less to his family then that same cop, regardless of where he lives?

It's human nature. When you are exposed to an environment where any encounter is liable to end you up dead; that's how you tend to act. It doesn't help that a cop has no idea what kind of weapon a person might be carrying. A person stopped in a routine traffic stop might be wearing better armor than you, and be carrying a shit-ton more weaponry that you.

It's the nature of the beast here.


Only those 2 and maybe the guy in the airplane (If there was one) and no, being angry because somebody robbed you is not the same as hate.

Yep, I'm sure you were happy as could be when the cop wrote your ticket. I'm absolutely positive of it. I mean, because Jesus could model his behavior after you, since even Jesus wasn't all that happy about people using the temple as a bank...

[KA9MOT]

It's human nature. When you are exposed to an environment where any encounter is liable to end you up dead; that's how you tend to act. It doesn't help that a cop has no idea what kind of weapon a person might be carrying. A person stopped in a routine traffic stop might be wearing better armor than you, and be carrying a shit-ton more weaponry that you.

It's the nature of the beast here.

And obviously the person this tread is about was, "wearing better armor than you, and be carrying a shit-ton more weaponry that you."




Yep, I'm sure you were happy as could be when the cop wrote your ticket. I'm absolutely positive of it. I mean, because Jesus could model his behavior after you, since even Jesus wasn't all that happy about people using the temple as a bank...

Happy? I was very clear in my post that I was not. Clearly I was angry. I certainly do not hate those guys. Your response is childish.

[NQ6U]

It's nice to know we have some well-trained citizens here. Perhaps dance lessons in goose-stepping are next?

Jah. Ve haff vays of making you sign zee ticket.

[KC2UGV]

And obviously the person this tread is about was, "wearing better armor than you, and be carrying a shit-ton more weaponry that you."


You can never know. Some of the highest crime bosses come across as feeble old men. And white.



Happy? I was very clear in my post that I was not. Clearly I was angry. I certainly do not hate those guys. Your response is childish.

Yes, I'm positive that you didn't let any of your anger through, as to prevent the cop from knowing you were angry. That's exactly what I'm talking about: A cop, doing his job, and you were angry with him for it.

[KC2UGV]

Jah. Ve haff vays of making you sign zee ticket.

You always have to sign the ticket. It shows you were served. Failure to do so is failing to comply with a lawful directive, according to most states penal codes, and has been that way since the first traffic tickets were issued.

[WX7P]

You always have to sign the ticket. It shows you were served. Failure to do so is failing to comply with a lawful directive, according to most states penal codes, and has been that way since the first traffic tickets were issued.

Which gets back to the original point. You taser someone for not signing the ticket?

[KA9MOT]

You can never know. Some of the highest crime bosses come across as feeble old men. And white.

Please go back to the video and point out the times you saw an obvious weapon and body armor. White? What does that have to do with anything? So now your adding Race to the argument, or are you insinuating I am?

When was the last time one of the "Highest Crime bosses" assaulted a cop? Capone?




Yes, I'm positive that you didn't let any of your anger through, as to prevent the cop from knowing you were angry. That's exactly what I'm talking about: A cop, doing his job, and you were angry with him for it.

Corey, lose your preconceived notions. Go back and read what I posted and you'll see the words, "I protested loudly and righteously to both Cop and Judge.". I think I'll let that stand as it is.


And Because I forgot (Old age)


It's human nature. When you are exposed to an environment where any encounter is liable to end you up dead; that's how you tend to act. It doesn't help that a cop has no idea what kind of weapon a person might be carrying. A person stopped in a routine traffic stop might be wearing better armor than you, and be carrying a shit-ton more weaponry that you.

It's the nature of the beast here.

And the lowly store clerk does not have the same right?

[KC2UGV]

Which gets back to the original point. You taser someone for not signing the ticket?

Yes, you tazer someone for not complying with a lawful directive.


Please go back to the video and point out the times you saw an obvious weapon and body armor. White? What does that have to do with anything? So now your adding Race to the argument, or are you insinuating I am?


None of it has to be obvious. Nefarious folk are pretty adept at concealing both. And, it presumed that older, white men should get some sort of leeway. Would anyone else be kvetching this much if the individual was a younger, black male?



When was the last time one of the "Highest Crime bosses" assaulted a cop? Capone?


You get to see that stuff often, actually. Crime bosses don't have to be feeble old men. What do you think a leader of the Latin Kings looks like? There's even some middle-aged women who are dyed in the wool killers that are drug kingpins.



Corey, lose your preconceived notions. Go back and read what I posted and you'll see the words, "I protested loudly and righteously to both Cop and Judge.". I think I'll let that stand as it is.


And I bet you were pleasant as could be towards the cop at the scene...



And Because I forgot (Old age)



And the lowly store clerk does not have the same right?

No, because the store clerk doesn't face a constant string of people pissed off at him for doing his job; and is not entrusted with maintaining public law and order.

[WX7P]

Yes, you tazer someone for not complying with a lawful directive.



WRONG. Officer Gardner got his macho up and tazed this guy because his authority was being questioned. Fuck that. This isn't goddamn Iraq. A guy driving an SUV with his pregnant wife in Utah is not a threat to society. How dare you use the Iraq analogy. You're smarter than that.

[KA9MOT]

And I bet you were pleasant as could be towards the cop at the scene...

What part of "Protest Loudly" implies pleasant?




No, because the store clerk doesn't face a constant string of people pissed off at him for doing his job.

Sure he does. My oldest worked as a clerk at a local convenience store in Monmouth, IL. A busy one right at the intersection of 2 very busy US Highways (US 67 and US 34). 3000 customers per shift on the weekends. Many pissed because gas went up $.11 a gallon, or because he couldn't sell beer after hours. Folks who wanted to steal gas, cigarettes, or alcohol. He was robbed at gunpoint 3 times and once at knife-point. Are you saying the lowly clerk does not have the right to protect himself because he is not entrusted with maintaining public law and order?

Your argument grows more feeble by the minute.

There is a reason that Convenience Store Clerks are on the Top Ten Most Dangerous Jobs list and Police Officers are not.

[KA9MOT]

WRONG. Officer Gardner got his macho up and tazed this guy because his authority was being questioned. Fuck that. This isn't goddamn Iraq. A guy driving an SUV with his pregnant wife in Utah is not a threat to society. How dare you use the Iraq analogy. You're smarter than that.

And the same Law that Corey claims protects the officer said he was wrong, to the tune of $40,000.

[WØTKX]

I drive my Integra without hubcaps because they are stupid, and want to fall off. But I guess it's part of the profile. Lay the back seat down and carry ham sticks, a portable mast for my vhf/uhf Elk log periodic. I think at the time I even had my cardboard box "go kit" holding my pneumatic antenna launcher, and it's associated goodies.

My FT-897 radio body is stashed and secure under the folded down seat back, sitting on the seat... with a couple of small wood blocks adding a bit of space for ventilation. I carry safety vests and extra clothes for my job as well, like my work boots. Kind of like a mini pickup.

As Dave knows, I drive a bit "spiffy", like to take corners and load the tires up a bit, but not too radical. Dave did use the awww shit handle when I hit the freeway ramps. I certainly didn't get close to loading up for a four wheel drift, and my "cargo" was not shifting around. Yea, I play around with that limit of adhesion once in a while, but not often, and never around others, unless I'm playing with friends. But I asked Dave if he was uncomfortable, and he said no. :lol:

I'm very observant on the road, with my finger on the horn trigger whenever other vehicles are nearby. Don't trust other drivers at all, and I tend to accelerate or slow down to get stay the hell away from them. I prefer to put most behind me... except for the ones that drive 10 mph over the limit all the time. But I enjoy driving almost as much as I enjoy cruising around on a motorcycle. A nice cruise on the open road with fun corners and good tunes cranked is still Zen meditation for me.

One of the best lines in the movie Gumball Rally...

http://youtu.be/AjGXn249Fc0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGXn249Fc0

[KA9MOT]

I went back and had another look at the Ten Most Dangerous Jobs in America.

Police have made it to the list. I guess if they were as nice as they used to be, less people would be killing them.

I openly acknowledge the need for Police. I appreciate the Police. I dislike the bad cops. The ones who think they are above everybody else.

Recently WIU held a block party here in Macomb. The students (3000 of them) got out of hand and Macomb decided to break out the riot gear and brought in some Riot cops. Macomb PD is catching some heat for doing so. I think they did what was necessary and did a great job.

Search YouTube for WIU WHeeler Block Party.

[KG4CGC]

What is not shown in the video but could be seen in the original was how the signs were set up. Moveable signs from a construction area, impossible to comply with unless you are already at the slower speed further back. What you have in this instance from the start is a speed trap but not just any speed trap, one that was set up in such a way that the people running it knew that people would not be able to comply so that they could pretty much pick and choose who they wanted to pull over. Guess the cop thought a minivan would be a pretty routine stop and routine shakedown for money.

[KG4CGC]

I went back and had another look at the Ten Most Dangerous Jobs in America.

Police have made it to the list. I guess if they were as nice as they used to be, less people would be killing them.

I openly acknowledge the need for Police. I appreciate the Police. I dislike the bad cops. The ones who think they are above everybody else.

Recently WIU held a block party here in Macomb. The students (3000 of them) got out of hand and Macomb decided to break out the riot gear and brought in some Riot cops. Macomb PD is catching some heat for doing so. I think they did what was necessary and did a great job.

Search YouTube for WIU WHeeler Block Party.
You can thank the rightwing's War On Drugs and making it so profitable for drug runners to smuggle on making the cop's job so much more dangerous. So profitable that the sheriff in your county gets his cut.

[W4GPL]

http://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php?6674-Protect-and-serve-I-m-afraid-this-is-all-too-common. - :lol:

We really need to find new things to talk about.

[W3WN]

It's not Kent state. It;s a case of a moron who refused to follow orders. You don;t act that way when the cops tell you to do something. Is the guy crazy ?No disagreement that when a cop tells you to follow an order, you do it. If you have a problem with it, deal with it later (via his superiors or a judge). "Winning" an argument by being tased or shot or worse is a pyrric victory I can do with out.

My concern is a very narrow one. Does this schmuck's inability to follow instructions require the use of excessive force? Was tasing him really the only way to subdue him? Sadly, there are some people who go straight for the nuclear option rather than try something a little less drastic first.

[WØTKX]

Denver Police Brutality Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=denver+police+brutality&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=denver+police+brutality&hl=en&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&hs=G1i&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsu&source=lnms&ei=QhvETdymNo6osAPNxNnrAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=1&ved=0CBsQ_AUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=44b3839bd44fe786)

[KA9MOT]

No disagreement that when a cop tells you to follow an order, you do it. If you have a problem with it, deal with it later (via his superiors or a judge). "Winning" an argument by being tased or shot or worse is a pyrric victory I can do with out.

My concern is a very narrow one. Does this schmuck's inability to follow instructions require the use of excessive force? Was tasing him really the only way to subdue him? Sadly, there are some people who go straight for the nuclear option rather than try something a little less drastic first.

And Tazers kill.....

[KG4CGC]

The cop was convinced I was a gang banger with my car, even though it's not tricked out. Was shocked to find a 50+ white guy with a clean record. He did not apologize, and gave me the reason as I'm asking for it by driving a vehicle like that. Oh, and he came up to me with his holster unsnapped, speaking in Spanish. I was really pissed, and answered in German, this made him very angry. He did not see the offending vehicle, or claimed he did not.

Cops live a different world. They are so immersed in it that they think we are all supposed to think in the same terms that they do. I tried to explain that to a cop once when he came out to my place of employment a few years back when some hot headed rager decided to return to the plant after his shift to bitch at another employee that ran his machine at night.
The cop could have had a good point but it was lost because he too was a rager. He said our shrubbery was an open invitation to rapes and muggings and how we were just asking for it. We had one tall ligustrum but you could also see right through it. I told him that the neighborhood we were in was pretty quiet and that the worst we had seen was the occasional drunk pulling in to the parking lot and sleeping it off till they were sober enough to drive. He then totally went off on the things he's seen in his line of work and it was then that I realized that cops live in a completely different world than the rest of the community.

[W3WN]

You always have to sign the ticket. It shows you were served. Failure to do so is failing to comply with a lawful directive, according to most states penal codes, and has been that way since the first traffic tickets were issued.Fine. So if I refuse to sign the ticket, then put me under arrest and haul me before the local magistrate. That I don't have a problem with. And if your ass sits in jail for a day or two until either you sign, or you are presented to the judge, them's the breaks.

But tasing the guy? Over that? Hell, if the situation was escalating to that point, why didn't the officer call for assistance?

[NQ6U]

Fine. So if I refuse to sign the ticket, then put me under arrest and haul me before the local magistrate. That I don't have a problem with. And if your ass sits in jail for a day or two until either you sign, or you are presented to the judge, them's the breaks.

Exactly right, Ron. The guy was subject to arrest for refusing to sign the ticket but there was no reason to Taze him.

[KC2UGV]

WRONG. Officer Gardner got his macho up and tazed this guy because his authority was being questioned. Fuck that. This isn't goddamn Iraq. A guy driving an SUV with his pregnant wife in Utah is not a threat to society. How dare you use the Iraq analogy. You're smarter than that.

How do you know a guy driving an SUV with a pregnant woman in the car isn't a threat? How can you be certain of that?

[KC2UGV]

What part of "Protest Loudly" implies pleasant?


So, you obviously displayed you didn't like the cop there... Sadly, that's what happens at every stop. The cop was wrong. The cop is crooked. The cop is just filling a quota.

Wrong. The cop was doing their job. And they are hated for it.



Sure he does. My oldest worked as a clerk at a local convenience store in Monmouth, IL. A busy one right at the intersection of 2 very busy US Highways (US 67 and US 34). 3000 customers per shift on the weekends. Many pissed because gas went up $.11 a gallon, or because he couldn't sell beer after hours. Folks who wanted to steal gas, cigarettes, or alcohol. He was robbed at gunpoint 3 times and once at knife-point. Are you saying the lowly clerk does not have the right to protect himself because he is not entrusted with maintaining public law and order?


Where did I state a store clerk doesn't have the right to defend themselves? I never said that. However, defending oneself is a far cry from putting someone's dick in the dirt for not following a directive.



Your argument grows more feeble by the minute.

There is a reason that Convenience Store Clerks are on the Top Ten Most Dangerous Jobs list and Police Officers are not.

As you found, police are on the list...


Cops live a different world. They are so immersed in it that they think we are all supposed to think in the same terms that they do. I tried to explain that to a cop once when he came out to my place of employment a few years back when some hot headed rager decided to return to the plant after his shift to bitch at another employee that ran his machine at night.
The cop could have had a good point but it was lost because he too was a rager. He said our shrubbery was an open invitation to rapes and muggings and how we were just asking for it. We had one tall ligustrum but you could also see right through it. I told him that the neighborhood we were in was pretty quiet and that the worst we had seen was the occasional drunk pulling in to the parking lot and sleeping it off till they were sober enough to drive. He then totally went off on the things he's seen in his line of work and it was then that I realized that cops live in a completely different world than the rest of the community.

Exactly. They live in a world that wherever they show up, they're the bad guys. They also live in a world where they are the only thing stopping the scum of the earth from ruling an area.


Fine. So if I refuse to sign the ticket, then put me under arrest and haul me before the local magistrate. That I don't have a problem with. And if your ass sits in jail for a day or two until either you sign, or you are presented to the judge, them's the breaks.

But tasing the guy? Over that? Hell, if the situation was escalating to that point, why didn't the officer call for assistance?

Hard to put cuffs on someone who is uncooperative. A taser quickly renders a person inert. And, quite often, patrols don't have the chance to call for assistance. It would be great if they could every time.

[NQ6U]

How do you know a guy driving an SUV with a pregnant woman in the car isn't a threat? How can you be certain of that?

You couldn't. But how do you explain away the fact that the guy had his back turned and was walking away from the cop when he was Tazed?

[KC2UGV]

You couldn't. But how do you explain away the fact that the guy had his back turned and was walking away from the cop when he was Tazed?

Easy: Failing to comply.

And officer tells you to stop, you stop. If an officer tells you to go over to the patrol car, you do it. You don't just walk off.

Would you prefer he was tackled to the ground, a knee in his back, and then cuffed? Personally, the tazing was easier, and accomplished the same thing.

[W5GA]

Hard to put cuffs on someone who is uncooperative. A taser quickly renders a person inert. And, quite often, patrols don't have the chance to call for assistance. It would be great if they could every time.
Very true...been there, done that. The alternatives are even more painful than being tazed, and run greater risk of harm to both the perp and the officer. About the only alternative is to either break or dislocate something.

[w2amr]

Jah. Ve haff vays of making you sign zee ticket.Wow what a hardship, Somebody should call the ACLU.:roll:

[NQ6U]

Easy: Failing to comply.

And officer tells you to stop, you stop. If an officer tells you to go over to the patrol car, you do it. You don't just walk off.

Would you prefer he was tackled to the ground, a knee in his back, and then cuffed? Personally, the tazing was easier, and accomplished the same thing.

You are way too quick to surrender your civil rights to authority. I'm glad that not everyone is like you because we'd be living in a real police state. Or, more accurately, an even worse police state than we already live in.

While it can't be denied that the guy was stupid, he was not violently resisting arrest and there was no justification for using a Tazer on him. What the cop should have done was call for backup, then dealt with the guy. Generally, a show of force is enough to make a guy like that back down. The fact that he was awarded $40,000 by the civil authorities should be enough to demonstrate that the cop made the wrong decision.

[n2ize]

So, by your eager advocacy of repressive police measures, one must assume that you would support another expansion of the powers of DHS.

No, I am just telling it like it is.You don't defy or challenge the cops in the field because you can get hurt, badly hurt, or even KILLED !! I have seen the results of people who defied or messed with the cops in the field and it is not very pretty. Most of the time the cops are respectful and restrained. But not always. It can get very ugly very fast. If you want to challenge the cops do it in court. Not out on the field.

[KC2UGV]

You are way too quick to surrender your civil rights to authority. I'm glad that not everyone is like you because we'd be living in a real police state. Or, more accurately, an even worse police state than we already live in.


It's one thing to disobey laws that are wrong. It's wholly another to just be belligerent. But, even the people disobeying laws that are wrong understand the police will use force on them. And nobody pussy-foots around when it comes to that.



While it can't be denied that the guy was stupid, he was not violently resisting arrest and there was no justification for using a Tazer on him. What the cop should have done was call for backup, then dealt with the guy. Generally, a show of force is enough to make a guy like that back down. The fact that he was awarded $40,000 by the civil authorities should be enough to demonstrate that the cop made the wrong decision.

And, I'm assuming it would be ok for the cop to become belligerent with the bailiff in the courtroom, because he didn't like the ruling? Or, should he just accept the ruling as the rule of law?

It boils down to the fact, we have laws in this country. And, one (Of many) of those laws are to obey lawful directives from LEO's. If you choose not to, then expect a show of force.

And, also, if you disagree with the actions of an LEO during the course of duty, you go to court. And they rule as they will there. Just like what happened here.

[n2ize]

You are way too quick to surrender your civil rights to authority. I'm glad that not everyone is like you because we'd be living in a real police state. Or, more accurately, an even worse police state than we already live in.

While it can't be denied that the guy was stupid, he was not violently resisting arrest and there was no justification for using a Tazer on him. What the cop should have done was call for backup, then dealt with the guy. Generally, a show of force is enough to make a guy like that back down. The fact that he was awarded $40,000 by the civil authorities should be enough to demonstrate that the cop made the wrong decision.

Do you understand what was happening ? The cop told him to stand in a spot put his hands behind his back and instead of complying he say's "you're crazy" and walks away. How does the cop know what he is going to do at that point. Maybe he is going to his car to get a gun. At that point he had no choice but to neutralize the threat posed by the defiant perp. I'll say it again. The guy is lucky he didn;t get a headbust or a shooting.

[n2ize]

You couldn't. But how do you explain away the fact that the guy had his back turned and was walking away from the cop when he was Tazed?

maybe he was walking back to his SUV to grab a weapon. Or to jump in and race away. He was told to stand and put his hands behind his back and he refused to comply. If I went out and did that I would expect to get busted up bad or maybe even shot. Maybe he won a civil suit but the perp sure took one hell of a risk for it. Then thhe cops tell you to do something you DO IT !!

[n2ize]

WRONG. Officer Gardner got his macho up and tazed this guy because his authority was being questioned. Fuck that. This isn't goddamn Iraq. A guy driving an SUV with his pregnant wife in Utah is not a threat to society. How dare you use the Iraq analogy. You're smarter than that.

Threats come in all shapes and forms. When you tell a guy to put his hands behind his back annd he tells you your crazy and walks towards his car you don;t know what he is going to do next. Obviously he has no respect for the cops or the rule of law. For al they know he might be walking towards the vehicle to retrieve a gun. Or to race away. WQhen you are being pout under arrest you don't tell the cops they are crazy and then go walking away.

[n2ize]

YES! How dare he stand up for his rights and try to reasonably discuss his side of the argument.....DAMN SCOFFLAW!

You stand up for your rights in court. You don;t stand up for your rights on the highway while you're in the middle of an arrest. Don't believe my then try it sometime. I;ve seen what happens when people tell the cops to "go f**k off" or try running away when they are being arrested.

[WØTKX]

With only one very bad exception, State Highway Patrols in my experience are not like that.

The one bad State Trooper officer searched my car (my last Opel Manta) and found a misplaced and forgotten "peace pipe", but nothing else. This was back in MN, there was no bad things in my car. He searched my car illegally, I had $600 cash on me to buy an air compressor at Northern Hydraulics. I had very long hair at the time, windows were down, with YES's Gates of Delirium from Relayer cranked up.

This was in the decriminalized days, and the officer ranted at me about that. Hell yes, I STFU'd up, except for... I need a lawyer, and my phone call. BTW, getting messed up and driving was something I did not do. I was a cab driver for far too long, I'd seen too much bad things happen.

I was accused of being a drug dealer, and held for three days as it was a Friday afternoon. I missed two days of overtime work that I agreed to, my boss almost fired me. On Monday I went in front of the Judge, with one of my best friends and his brother there as a character witness for me, and against the officer. You see, he'd been suspended two years before for treating my friends brother like crap when his Alpha Spyder got T-Boned (not his fault) and blamed the victim repeatedly for driving a small hard to see sports car. Even the person who hit him got pissed about that.

He was suspended for 90 days, I got released, and the Judge wrote a letter to my boss which saved my job. My boss and I did partake together before this ever happened, so this was a non issue. From that day forward, carrying anything like that in my car became something I rarely did, and only on camping or vacation trips... in a concealed place, not in the drivers compartment, just like the beer.

[KG4CGC]

You stand up for your rights in court. You don;t stand up for your rights on the highway while you're in the middle of an arrest. Don't believe my then try it sometime. I;ve seen what happens when people tell the cops to "go f**k off" or try running away when they are being arrested.
Tell that to all the women and children raped at the hands of officers during a traffic stop.

[KC2UGV]

Tell that to all the women and children raped at the hands of officers during a traffic stop.

How many women and children have been raped by LEO's here in the US?

[KG4CGC]

How many women and children have been raped by LEO's here in the US?
Who can say for sure? Most such crimes never get reported. Sometimes the victims mysteriously disappear.

[KC2UGV]

Who can say for sure? Most such crimes never get reported. Sometimes the victims mysteriously disappear.

So, basically, you're just tossing stuff out there, hoping it sticks?

[KG4CGC]

So, basically, you're just tossing stuff out there, hoping it sticks?
Why would you say that? Someone has to start the dialog otherwise it remains in darkness and the victims suffering is unending.

[KC2UGV]

Why would you say that? Someone has to start the dialog otherwise it remains in darkness and the victims suffering is unending.

And, to be meaningful dialog, we need an estimate at least of how often this occurs.

[KG4CGC]

And, to be meaningful dialog, we need an estimate at least of how often this occurs.
So far, we can only go with what actually gets reported but, my estimates put it much higher.

[WX7P]

How do you know a guy driving an SUV with a pregnant woman in the car isn't a threat? How can you be certain of that?

Are we that paranoid that every T/S is treated like we're pulling over Dillinger? Your silly Iraq analogy falls flat, btw. Utah ain't Baghdad, and any other cop with an ounce of professionalism in him wouldn't have gone cowboy and whipped out the Tazer on this guy. If a cop is that trigger happy, he shouldn't be running around with a gun, badge and bad attitude.

Treating every situation like it's a life or death situation is bullshit and wrong. These guys are supposed to be trained to determine what is a bad situation versus letting their goddamn ego get out of control. This cop lost his cool, period. Unfortunately, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception anymore.

[KC2UGV]

Are we that paranoid that every T/S is treated like we're pulling over Dillinger? Your silly Iraq analogy falls flat, btw. Utah ain't Baghdad, and any other cop with an ounce of professionalism in him wouldn't have gone cowboy and whipped out the Tazer on this guy. If a cop is that trigger happy, he shouldn't be running around with a gun, badge and bad attitude.


I sure as hell would treat someone who is uncooperative, and refusing to comply with an arrest as being dangerous... If a person cares not about LEO's, then what would make a person thing he cares about the law at all?



Treating every situation like it's a life or death situation is bullshit and wrong. These guys are supposed to be trained to determine what is a bad situation versus letting their goddamn ego get out of control. This cop lost his cool, period. Unfortunately, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception anymore.

Every situation like this that is escalating quickly, can quickly become a life/death situation. Why do you think cops approach cars with their hand on their weapon?

[KG4CGC]

To be sure though, I was trying out my best Glenn Beck but let's face it, let's just leave that to the Master.

[W3MIV]

The cop was a schmuck and used excessive force.

SK

[n2ize]

Tell that to all the women and children raped at the hands of officers during a traffic stop.

Do you have any statistics on exactly how offten that happens ? Besides, that has nothing to do with this. When a cop orders you to stop and put your hands behind your back you must comply. Protesting, telling the cop he's an ass, or walking away is simply not an option and will most likely be dealt with force and/or possibly lethal force. Again, if you value your life and want to avoid injury or possibly death you don;t challenge the law in the field. The field is simply not the place to change the law or seek justice.

[n2ize]

The cop was a schmuck and used excessive force.

SK

Let's say he simply allowed the guy to walk back to his car and the guy retrieved a gun and blew the cops head off. it happens you know. Traffic stops can be very dangerous. When you are being placed under arrest you don;t walk away. What is so hard to comprehend about that ? Now if you feel that civilians should be allowed to defy the police then the place to advocate for that right is in court, not on the field. get a new law passed that permits citizens to refuse to comply with police orders and that allows citizens to defy arrest and walk away. The place to do that is in the court. Not out on the highway.

[w2amr]

Tell that to all the women and children raped at the hands of officers during a traffic stop.
Geez Louise.:wtf:

[KG4CGC]

Geez Louise.:wtf:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/mahimahi1.jpg

[WØTKX]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_I2uQkGxIykM/SZ_qxieP_UI/AAAAAAAACtY/VpiiBvx5X5A/s400/joke-1.jpg

[n2ize]

A teacher in grade school taught me the consequences of being defiant. There was a kid in class who was making his own home made ink and using it to refill other kids ink cartridges (for their cartrige/fountain pens) for about a nickel a piece. One day he ran out of Potassium Ferrocynande so I made the ink for him and he bought it from me. I got out of my seat to give it to him and the teacher told me "JAHN, GET BAICK IN YOUR SEAT)... Yes she did have a Sarah Palin accent. But I continued to go across the room and she screamed "ARE YOU DEFYING ME !!!!!!!". That ear splitting scream echoing off the high ceiling and walls was enough to send me flying back to my desk. Any louder and my ears would still be bleeding !!

[N2CHX]

I had an interesting run-in with a cop today. An off-duty dipshit in his Geo Tracker with his two kids decided to try to make a left-hand turn right in front of me and Dan. He stopped and swerved at the last second or we would have hit him. We came really close, and as we passed by, he flipped us off. I have pretty much had it with all of humanity as of late and turned the car around and pulled behind the toad, who had pulled into a pizzeria parking lot.

We all got out, he starts running his mouth, calling Dan derogatory names and then he flashed his sheriff's badge and said if we didn't leave he would "call it in and give us a ticket." I told him he was an asshole for nearly causing an accident and then flipping us off. He tried to claim he was merely wagging his index finger at us because we were supposedly speeding. I was simply going with traffic, and I clearly saw the fucking liar flip us off. Every time we started to get back in our car, he tried picking a fight with Dan and called him names again. I told him he was a fucking liar and a piece of shit for pulling his stunt and acting all high and mighty with his badge.

I really don't give a fuck. I have some cop friends (and some good friends in he sheriff's department too lol) but some cops just need to have their badges pulled and clean toilets for a living. They have no business being in any position of authority. I have no use for swinging dick cops and I'm sorry, I'm not going to respect you just because you have a cute little silver badge. And no, I didn't get tazed, but the asshole actually said he was going to look up our license plate to get our address and then he would be "watching us." I say go for it, then I'll sue the fucker for stalking.

Goddamn I hate arrogant fucks, and arrogant cops are the worst of the worst in terms of arrogant fucks.

[WV6Z]

Okay so this whole thread is as funny as hell, not just Dave's way cool posts and rationalizations, but seriously Kelli, come on, how the hell can ANYONE give the appearance of being arrogant while piloting a GEO Tracker?!?! ;)

[w2amr]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/mahimahi1.jpg
I kinda figured. Good one though.

[N2CHX]

Okay so this whole thread is as funny as hell, not just Dave's way cool posts and rationalizations, but seriously Kelli, come on, how the hell can ANYONE give the appearance of being arrogant while piloting a GEO Tracker?!?! ;)

LOL, this is quite true, which is one reason I pretty much just laughed at him. It was hard to take him seriously, all things considered. The thing that I find interesting is how he was so good at running his mouth to egg Dan on. It was quite clear he wanted Dan to hit him. Good thing Dan's not that kind of person. You probably know that Dan just had gastric bypass surgery in October and has lost over 150 lbs. The guy kept calling Dan names like fatty, loser and pussy. Makes one wonder if cops aren't trained to say things to intentionally piss people off so they finally go off on them. Dan found the whole thing amusing, although afterward he said that if the guy had said anything nasty to or about me he would have hit him. Why the guy egged Dan on so bad but not me, I have no idea.

Little man syndrome amuses me.

[n2ize]

Cops have to be tough. This is not to say that abusive cops are right but, when you're out in the field you have got to be tough. Being nice is a ticket to getting killed. The public has hardly any respect for the law as is. If the cops don't get the upper hand they quickly lose respect annd things go downhill. In any event I'm glad I never became a cop. I'd have been kicked off the force years ago for splitting skull.

[w2amr]

LOL, this is quite true, which is one reason I pretty much just laughed at him. It was hard to take him seriously, all things considered. The thing that I find interesting is how he was so good at running his mouth to egg Dan on. It was quite clear he wanted Dan to hit him. Good thing Dan's not that kind of person. You probably know that Dan just had gastric bypass surgery in October and has lost over 150 lbs. The guy kept calling Dan names like fatty, loser and pussy. Makes one wonder if cops aren't trained to say things to intentionally piss people off so they finally go off on them. Dan found the whole thing amusing, although afterward he said that if the guy had said anything nasty to or about me he would have hit him. Why the guy egged Dan on so bad but not me, I have no idea.

Little man syndrome amuses me.Are you sure he wasn't an off duty security guard?

[WØTKX]

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12455


But for a weapon whose makers crow about its “stopping power,” Tasers occupy a strange place in the police rulebook. Law enforcement officers learn what is called a “use of force continuum” to determine what means or weapons they may use in different situations. The “continuum” begins with simple police presence, then moves up to issuing commands, then the use of open hands, and after that, pepper or other chemical sprays, closed hands (including elbows and knees and other takedown moves), the use of a hard baton, and finally, the use of lethal force.

You might think Tasers would fit somewhere near the “lethal force” end of that list, right before a gun. Instead, however, many police agencies place Tasers immediately after the “issuing commands” force level — which suggests to officers that using a Taser is less serious even than a push or pepper spray. Which also means that if an officer asks you to produce your driver’s license and you ask “Why?” rather than immediately complying with the order, there’s a chance, in some jurisdictions, that you could, within their rules, be hit with a Taser for refusing the command. That’s in part how Tasers have begun to be used, not as serious, life-threatening weapons, but as a bully’s tool of compliance, something to get people in line — with sometimes egregious consequences.

[KC2UGV]

By and large, tasers are right on par with pepper spray. So, yes, getting hit with a taser after refusing to comply seems to be pretty ok, IMO.

[NQ6U]

By and large, tasers are right on par with pepper spray.

Um, no, no it's not, especially if the target has a heart problem.

[n2ize]

The taser is basically an anti-resistance device. Its primarily used in scenarions whhere a resistance is encountered. The resistance can range from simply not accepting a summons to outright violent non-compliance. While it may not always work the best way to avoid a tasing is to consciously avoid any resistive behavior.

[KC2UGV]

Um, no, no it's not, especially if the target has a heart problem.

And pepper spray isn't, when used on someone with a capsaicin allergy. Everyone, however has a severe allergy to lead pellets moving at a high rate of speed. And, most people I know have an allergy (somewhat severe) to dislocated shoulders, and broken arms.

[W3WN]

The taser is basically an anti-resistance device. Its primarily used in scenarions where a resistance is encountered. The resistance can range from simply not accepting a summons to outright violent non-compliance. While it may not always work the best way to avoid a tasing is to consciously avoid any resistive behavior.Oh, c'mon.

Do you really believe that someone refusing to accept a summons or ticket deserves to get tased?

I'm not saying that the person is right to refuse, mind you. But that & that alone warrants an electrical shock?

...and that it has happened is also not the point. I know of an incident a few years ago where two Mt. Lebanon (Pa) cops were arguing with the owner of a pizza shop, and they stopped the argument by tasing him and sending him to the hospital. (I'll do some digging and find a link. But, this was another case where the victim sued and got a settlement -- but who wants a settlement that way?)