Is it time to return to headlights?

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

The current generation of bubble headlight assemblies is a failure.
They are fagging up and warping in the Texas heat, distorting the optics.
Headlamps did not have this problem, a sealed in glass module that worked well over its lifetime.
And, the bubbles themselves get fragile as they age, sometimes simply cracking as weather changes.

[NQ6U]

"Fagging up??"
http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/gyrogeerloose/billthecat.gif
http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/gyrogeerloose/WART-hog.png

[w6tmi]

If anything time to dump the incandescants and go to HIDs or CREE arrays.

[KA5PIU]

If anything time to dump the incandescants and go to HIDs or CREE arrays.

Hello.

Yes, but make it a standard size so you can trot down to the local auto supply and buy a replacement.
Right now the outer bubble is a dealer item, and expensive.
Making the outer unit out of glass would solve some of the problems.
Making everything a standard size would solve the other.
For some reason tail light lenses do not seem to have this problem, it is just the headlamps.

[w2amr]

Hello.

The current generation of bubble headlight assemblies is a failure.
They are fagging up and warping in the Texas heat, distorting the optics.
Headlamps did not have this problem, a sealed in glass module that worked well over its lifetime.
And, the bubbles themselves get fragile as they age, sometimes simply cracking as weather changes.
Invent Texas headlight sunglasses and make a million dollars.

[N2CHX]

I think he just wanted an excuse to say fag.

WART.

[N8YX]

I think he just wanted an excuse to say fag.

WART.
Freudian slip is Freudian. :rofl:

[W3MIV]

Let's keep the lights and get rid of Texass.

[W5GA]

A return to sealed beams would be a disaster for CAFE standards.

[w3bny]

Let's keep the lights and get rid of Texass.

Hey now...Y'all up here in yankee land need to settle down a smidge.

[WV6Z]

WART / IBTSS

[W7XF]

WART

[N8GAV]

WART

[n2ize]

If anything time to dump the incandescants and go to HIDs or CREE arrays.

Whats wrong with incandescents ?

[N2CHX]

Whats wrong with incandescents ?

What's wrong with CFL's? I've used them for years. Cuts a big chunk out of the 'lectric bill.

[N8YX]

What's wrong with CFL's? I've used them for years. Cuts a big chunk out of the 'lectric bill.
They suck when used as headlights.

[W3MIV]

They suck when used as headlights.

Well, they beat the hell outta whale oil, though.

[n2ize]

What's wrong with CFL's? I've used them for years. Cuts a big chunk out of the 'lectric bill.

For automotive headlamps you want a light source that delivers as close to a point source of light at the focus of the parabolic reflector. This is most commonly done with an incandescent filament or more and more often nowadays with a Mercury or metal halide HID discharge tube.

For home use CFL's are fine, although some people still prefer incandescents. Incandescents still have some advantages. They play nicely with most dimmers, although they are coming out with dimmable CFL's. Incandescents are nicer for candelabra chandeliers and mood lighting. Incandescents also work better in cold locations, for instance a cold CFL outdoors can take several minutes to reach full intensity where as an incandescent will be instant. Incandescents also work with both AC and DC circuits so, if you are on DC they will work fine.

Otherwise, for general lighting purposes CFL's are fine. They last the longest in fixtures that are not switched on and off frequently. In fixtures that are frequently turned on and off they will last about as long as a typical incandescent. They are also cheaper overall in as far as electricity consumption.

P.S. want to really prolong the life of an incandescent ? Run it at about 80-90 volts instead of the full 120 volts. At reduced voltages incandescents can last practically forever.

[KG4CGC]

Glass covers?
There is a product out there that cleans up the fagging from the fagged up plastic covers.
Someone could develop a nose bra with daylight covers for the lights to reduce fagging.
I know Texas is different and I never really held anything against them until they unleashed Gee Dubya. Then all the stories in the news over the years of how they openly kill homosexuals or destroy cars with pro-gay bumper stickers.

[W3MIV]

There are form-fitted, resilient plastic covers that may be applied to many polycarbonate headlight units that are supposed to absorb the impact of small stones and reduce crazing by weather and sunlight. Most of today's headlight units are far too complex to mold out of glass without being very heavy and more costly than the plastic.

I hate the blue HIDs that are being put in many autos now, and I have seen after-market HIDs that are so blue that I cannot imagine how they could possibly work in a fog. The higher the color temperature (i.e. the bluer the light) the more it is scattered in fog, rain and snow. That's why "fog lights" were traditionally yellow.

In my opinion, the best headlights for general use would be halogen (or similar) bulbs of about 3450-3750°K and about 65 watts.

[N8YX]

P.S. want to really prolong the life of an incandescent ? Run it at about 80-90 volts instead of the full 120 volts. At reduced voltages incandescents can last practically forever.
Running them on D.C. instead of A.C. also helps.

[N8YX]

I hate the blue HIDs that are being put in many autos now, and I have seen after-market HIDs that are so blue that I cannot imagine how they could possibly work in a fog. The higher the color temperature (i.e. the bluer the light) the more it is scattered in fog, rain and snow. That's why "fog lights" were traditionally yellow.
I'm going to retrofit my Concours with a dual-HID setup this summer. 4300K is what will be used, and I wouldn't mind going cooler than that if I could find a set of spare tubes.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

First off, headlights do very little for aerodynamics if properly mounted and of the correct shape.
The teardrop headlight with a round lamp are as aerodynamic as this new stuff, proven fact.
But even the round headlight in a dished unit is good.
The aviation industry has spent countless hours doing research on this, and the popout landing lights that are mounted under the wing add nearly no drag whatsoever, the only reason that they retract is to deal with damage from ice.
Round headlights are far more aerodynamic than the flat front square lamps, very much far so.
The 4 headlight system properly mounted is more aerodynamic than the 2 headlight system.
In fact, the single greatest drag on an automobile from an aerodynamic standpoint is the one we do not want to get rid of, it is that large copper or plastic black thing up front, the radiator.
Air Conditioning and the hotter running engines now require more cooling than ever before.
Building a car that can use sealed beam headlamps and be efficient has already been done, the VW beetle was one such car.
The way the engine was mounted it got plenty of fresh air without much of a disruption of the aerodynamic lines.
Odd as this must sound, the square mini vans that are all the rage now do fairly well from an aerodynamic point of view, and 4 round headlights would have no effect whatsoever on mileage.
Square headlights became due to the demands of styling, nothing more.
A round sealed beam with an encapsulated HID element as well as a halogen element something where you replace the entire unit, would not be that expensive, perhaps $30?
It would be cheaper than what we have now by far.

[KG4CGC]

There are form-fitted, resilient plastic covers that may be applied to many polycarbonate headlight units that are supposed to absorb the impact of small stones and reduce crazing by weather and sunlight. Most of today's headlight units are far too complex to mold out of glass without being very heavy and more costly than the plastic.

I hate the blue HIDs that are being put in many autos now, and I have seen after-market HIDs that are so blue that I cannot imagine how they could possibly work in a fog. The higher the color temperature (i.e. the bluer the light) the more it is scattered in fog, rain and snow. That's why "fog lights" were traditionally yellow.

In my opinion, the best headlights for general use would be halogen (or similar) bulbs of about 3450-3750°K and about 65 watts.
NOT TO MENTION, that drivers using those new HID lights may be able to see better but in the process they are blinding other drivers in opposing traffic. Conspiracy?

[n2ize]

I hate the blue HIDs that are being put in many autos now, and I have seen after-market HIDs that are so blue that I cannot imagine how they could possibly work in a fog. The higher the color temperature (i.e. the bluer the light) the more it is scattered in fog, rain and snow. That's why "fog lights" were traditionally yellow.


The HID headlights are nice. The better ones are not excessively blue. My father has them on his car. You get incredible good forward visibility. Also, they are very white. When you first turn them on they start off blue from the mercury vapour. . But as the metal halides vapours kick in it turns into a very clear, distinct sharp white that seems to cut through almost anything.

[n2ize]

NOT TO MENTION, that drivers using those new HID lights may be able to see better but in the process they are blinding other drivers in opposing traffic. Conspiracy?

I have never had a problem with them. If they are properly aimed they should light up the road ahead of the car nicely but they should not cause blind spots to oncoming drivers.

[KG4CGC]

I have never had a problem with them. If they are properly aimed they should light up the road ahead of the car nicely but they should not cause blind spots to oncoming drivers.
Makes no difference how they're aimed or even if there is a highway divider a lane and a half wide. You can't see the road if they're coming at you.

[kc7jty]

Aren't you the one who mentioned ammonia filled light bulbs Rudy? Sometimes the things we say can come along later and nip us in the @ss.

[NQ6U]

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/23000/Headlights-23367.jpg

[KG4CGC]

Aren't you the one who mentioned ammonia filled light bulbs Rudy? Sometimes the things we say can come along later and nip us in the @ss.
I think that's a "bomb" trick. Saw it in a movie somewhere. I thought they used gasoline.

[W5GA]

I think that's a "bomb" trick. Saw it in a movie somewhere. I thought they used gasoline.
Used in the original "The Longest Yard" w/Burt Reynolds

[W3MIV]

I'm going to retrofit my Concours with a dual-HID setup this summer. 4300K is what will be used, and I wouldn't mind going cooler than that if I could find a set of spare tubes.

That temperature should be fine. It will be sufficiently biased to the long wave side of the spectrum to perform well in foggy/misty condx, I think. I have nothing against the HDs themselves, if they are aimed and managed correctly.

The bulbs in this Hyundai -- I am not sure whether they are halogen or xenon, but the color makes me suspect halogen -- have a very sharp cutoff at the top of the beam that reminds me of the Cibié Z Beams I had in a Sunbeam Tiger a century or so ago. The cutoff works very well to keep the light out of the eyes of the guy/gal in front of you most of the time, yet lights the pavement well. A second (and it appears to be identical) bulb is mounted in a radically different reflector for the high-beam component.

[NQ6U]

Ooooooo, Sunbeam Tiger! A British sports car with an American V-8 in it. What more could you want?

[W5GA]

Ooooooo, Sunbeam Tiger! A British sports car with an American V-8 in it. What more could you want?
A new one!

[w2amr]

Ooooooo, Sunbeam Tiger! A British sports car with an American V-8 in it. What more could you want?
One of these bad boys.
http://grandmotherwren.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sunbeammixer.JPG

[KA5PIU]

Aren't you the one who mentioned ammonia filled light bulbs Rudy? Sometimes the things we say can come along later and nip us in the @ss.

Hello.

http://www.businessinsider.com/london-protest-march-26-2011-3
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/03/in-london-protesters-threw-light-bulbs.html
http://wikileaksleaks.blogspot.com/2011/03/met-lie-ammonia-filled-light-bulbs.html

[N2NH]

http://www.hipasiwannabe.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/witch_nose-150x150.jpg

Dump Texass

[W3MIV]

Ooooooo, Sunbeam Tiger! A British sports car with an American V-8 in it. What more could you want?

It sounds a lot better than it was. The one I had was motivated by a Chrysler (actually a Plymouth, IIRC) V8 of about 283cid. I believe the first of them had a Ford 289. Lots of power; lots of weight in the front end. A lot of understeer, but it was way easy to break the ass-end loose if you got too zealous with the pedal in a turn -- 'specially on an uneven surface. Gobbled tires. A bit of juvenile over-enthusiasm could render the tranny hors de combat in a heartbeat if the clutch didn't go first. Sounded great, though, with glass-packs.

Oh, yeah, only held about ten or eleven gallons of petrol.

The Alpine was actually a more sensible sports car with the inline four. Also owned MGs (A and B); Alpine nicer all around. The Tiger was all adrenaline and no brains. No wonder it didn't last long.

[W1GUH]

How often, and for how long was it in the shop?

[NQ6U]

Sounds a lot like the difference between the original AC Cobra with the 289 and and the last iteration with the 427. The 289 car was better in every respect and, surprisingly, only a little slower in the quarter-mile.

[W3MIV]

How often, and for how long was it in the shop?

I kept the car for less than two years. I had been advised about the potential for costly mayhem that could result from an excess of testosterone, so I was careful not to push it to the damage point. I did have to replace a clutch plate, and the mechy explained to me how lucky I was about the transamission. At that point in my life, I could ill afford to handle those major repairs. Mileage was poor, as you might imagine, but generally the engine gave me no trouble. Oil and filter every 3k. I had put a second set of Dunlaps on the thing when I found someone who was just dying to buy it. Buh-bye Tagger.

Replaced it with a Chevy Nova. Boring as all hell, but one of the most dependable cars I ever owned. Snow tires on the back, that sucker would go anywhere, anytime. Remember snow tires on separate rims? Straight, 250 six with the Powerglide. Twenty-seven (?) gallon fuel tank. Four doors. When that was maxing out, I traded it on another one just like it.

[KA5PIU]

Sounds a lot like the difference between the original AC Cobra with the 289 and and the last iteration with the 427. The 289 car was better in every respect and, surprisingly, only a little slower in the quarter-mile.

Hello.

My brother has an AC Cobra in 289.
OK, lets take a British car, and dump an American engine and driveline in it.
Remember that this was a British car, complete with British electrics.
The engine, on the other hand, was provided with electrics that actually work.
There is this pair of boxes on the firewall that act as junction points between the 2, quickly run, do not walk, and replace all from where it meets the engine back!
All of the British lever switches have been replaced by American toggle switches.
At some point I simply replaced the entire wiring harness, simply took the old off and used it as a pattern for a new one, something that came out of an American car or 2 and was assembled into a harness.
Once this was done the car became a wonder to behold, as long as one was careful.
But, if something comes with markings that say Lucas, and looks like that British design of lever action switch, think of its replacement as putting it out of its misery.

[W5GA]

Sounds a lot like the difference between the original AC Cobra with the 289 and and the last iteration with the 427. The 289 car was better in every respect and, surprisingly, only a little slower in the quarter-mile.
The 289 was a bunch slower in the quarter mile. The 427 was capable of zero-100-zero in 10 seconds.

[KA5PIU]

The 289 was a bunch slower in the quarter mile. The 427 was capable of zero-100-zero in 10 seconds.

Hello.

But the 427 is only a quarter mile car, with nearly no cornering ability while accelerating.
I have driven both and the 427 suffers greatly from a rear traction problem due to weight in front.
The other problem was that the 427 tended to heat the car to the point that it became very uncomfortable to drive in the Texas heat, the floorboard got so hot that the rubber mat started smoking and I had to keep my feet on the pedals.
I had trouble slowing the car down only to discover that the brake fluid was boiling!.
We had to pull the engine to service it and found that the rack and pinion steering assembly had a melted boot.
The radiator was replaced with a larger unit and several lines were relocated.
To be fair, this car was a few years old and was not that well maintained, a good engine flush brought out some gunk.
But in the handling area it was a very poor car.
Aftermarket items might have helped, who knows?

[N5RLR]

Let's keep the lights and get rid of Texass.
Hey now...Y'all up here in yankee land need to settle down a smidge.
You're much kinder than I, amigo.

* * * * * * * * * *

Back on topic...one big cause of deterioration of plastic headlamp lenses is cleaning them with glass cleaner containing ammonia.

Ammonia attacks polycarbonate, yellowing it and rendering it brittle over time.

Personally I prefer glass, but the Aero Gods have sway with automotive design these days. :wtf:

[NQ6U]

The 289 was a bunch slower in the quarter mile. The 427 was capable of zero-100-zero in 10 seconds.

Only in the hands of an expert driver who could coax the 427 car off the line without melting the tires.

[kc7jty]

Replaced it with a Chevy Nova.

what year was the nova?

[n2ize]

One of these bad boys.
http://grandmotherwren.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sunbeammixer.JPG

Wow !! My Mom had that same mixer back in the 1960's... It was thew mashed potatoes from that thing that made me fat. He he. :)

[W4RLR]

When U.S. servicemen were assigned to The Netherlands, their personal vehicles were required to be inspected by a government agency for safety before they could receive Dutch plates. When I brought my new Volvo wagon with U.S. specs in for inspection, the crew there laughed their ass off about the plastic headlights. While I could have swapped them out for the Euro beams, it was not required.

One of the things I liked about Euro spec cars is you could adjust the headlights from the dashboard by either pressing a button or turning a knob.

[w6tmi]

When U.S. servicemen were assigned to The Netherlands, their personal vehicles were required to be inspected by a government agency for safety before they could receive Dutch plates. When I brought my new Volvo wagon with U.S. specs in for inspection, the crew there laughed their ass off about the plastic headlights. While I could have swapped them out for the Euro beams, it was not required.

One of the things I liked about Euro spec cars is you could adjust the headlights from the dashboard by either pressing a button or turning a knob.

uhh huh huh... huh...




knob..

huh..


:bbh:



I ordered a couple extra Cree MC/e when I ordered a replacement for a flashlight that died. I find them intriguing, the amount of light put out by such a small "LED".

Not sure they are up to a car/bike level but I think they'll work for bicycle lights. Have to run them off a variable and see what they look like.

[W7XF]

<snip>want to really prolong the life of an incandescent ? Run it at about 80-90 volts instead of the full 120 volts. At reduced voltages incandescents can last practically forever.<snip>

And, use DC instead of AC to power that incandescent. The 60 Hz heating/cooling cycle and resulting vibration of commercial AC current does significantly reduce service life.

In fact, I see more in-home AC to DC rectification when LED lighting becomes more widespread, since LEDs respond so quickly, you WILL notice the 60 Hz blink rate with them.
(as in rectified DC for lighting, AC for appliances, home electronics, etc).

[W7XF]

Hello.

<snip>But, if something comes with markings that say Lucas, and looks like that British design of lever action switch, think of its replacement as putting it out of its misery.<snip>

OMG!!! I actually AGREE with Rudy on this!!! But of course, anyone worth their salt in automotive technology KNOWS that Lucas is the Lord of Darkness!

[suddenseer]

Ooooooo, Sunbeam Tiger! A British sports car with an American V-8 in it. What more could you want?My dad had a 65 tvr griffith. A brit car the size of a small MG with a 289 tri carb cobra monster under the hood. He destroyed 3 differentials probably more due to his lack of knowledge of applying that kind of power. Yes, it was fiberglass. I think I remember hearing 200 HP being referred to. After the second differential was destroyed, it sat in the garage for 3 years. I would sit in it, and pretend to be speed racer. My mom nagged him for years to free up the garage for their car. He finally capitulated. Even my mom regrets their decision to free up the garage. That car is probably worth a small fortune today. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/1966Griffith400.JPG

[NQ6U]

But of course, anyone worth their salt in automotive technology KNOWS that Lucas is the Lord of Darkness!

As we used to say: Why do the British drink their beer warm? Because they have Lucas refrigerators.