Interesting new engine design

[W5GA]

I'd love to see this take off!


Despite shifting into higher gear within the consumer's green conscience, hybrid vehicles are still tethered to the gas pump via a fuel-thirsty 100-year-old invention: the internal combustion engine.
However, researchers at Michigan State University (http://www.msu.edu/) have built a prototype gasoline engine that requires no transmission, crankshaft, pistons, valves, fuel compression, cooling systems or fluids. Their so-called Wave Disk Generator could greatly improve the efficiency of gas-electric hybrid automobiles and potentially decrease auto emissions up to 90 percent when compared with conventional combustion engines.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42460541/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/

[W3MIV]

Fantastic. Nice to know that some folks in Michigan still know something about autos and engines. Even if the someone is another great American engineer like Werner von Braun. ;)

("Vunce zeh rrrrrrahketz are uph, who cairz vair zey kum down.... zatz nut my department, sess Werner von Braun.")

[NQ6U]

I wonder how they're getting away with no cooling system. Even at 60% efficiency there's still going to be a significant amount of waste heat.

[WØTKX]

Wow, a new fangled rotary design. Marvelous.

There have been experiments with ceramic materials in piston engines that need less or no cooling.

Designed to work at high temps without wear. Maybe they're doing something like that.

[KA5PIU]

I wonder how they're getting away with no cooling system. Even at 60% efficiency there's still going to be a significant amount of waste heat.

Hello.

It is something of a misnomer, it is like saying the VW bug has no cooling system.
It is air cooled.

[NQ6U]

"Vunce zeh rrrrrrahketz are uph, who cairz vair zey kum down.... zatz nut my department, sess Werner von Braun.")


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro

[KG4CGC]

Looks like a terrestrial flying saucer for commuters who don't have HSR.

[n2ize]

My preliminary analysis hints that this design is a failure. It is nice in a prototype on the bench but it won't scale.

[ab1ga]

At the end he said he wants to see us driving in cars with his engine within three years.
To that I respond:

Jawohl, Herr Professor!

[KA5PIU]

My preliminary analysis hints that this design is a failure. It is nice in a prototype on the bench but it won't scale.

Hello.

Even if the scale limit were something in the 20 to 30 HP area it would be a useful concept.
A 30 HP gasoline motor running at a constant RPM charging a set of cells in a hybrid automobile will give us highway speeds, 60 MPH sustained on a flat surface in something the size of the smart car.
The greatest effort is in starting from a stand still, something that can be overcome with batteries.

[NQ6U]

He said they hope to have a 25KW unit running by the end of the year. That's about 33HP--roughly the same as the engine that powered the older VW Beetles.

[KG4CGC]

Sounds like a concept that will be implemented in 'banks' of motors.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

No need for a bank of motors if this thing can indeed produce the 30+ HP.
That is the sweet spot for an economy hybrid.

[KG4CGC]

Hello.

No need for a bank of motors if this thing can indeed produce the 30+ HP.
That is the sweet spot for an economy hybrid.
ONES and ZEROS boards and stairs.

[NQ6U]

I wonder what the thing sounds like when it's running. Not as sweet at my E-Type Jag, I'll bet. Or a board on the stairs, either.

[n2ize]

At the end he said he wants to see us driving in cars with his engine within three years.
To that I respond:

Jawohl, Herr Professor!

The best rotary design to date has been the Wankel. At least the Wankel was scalable to some practical sized automobiles. This "pipe dream" engine is not. I would be skeptical of it even on a lawn mower. I think the professor had better refocus his energy on a better mousetrap.

[KG4CGC]

I wonder what the thing sounds like when it's running. Not as sweet at my E-Type Jag, I'll bet. Or a board on the stairs, either.
I'm thinking, cards in my wheel spokes.

[KA5PIU]

The best rotary design to date has been the Wankel. At least the Wankel was scalable to some practical sized automobiles. This "pipe dream" engine is not. I would be skeptical of it even on a lawn mower. I think the professor had better refocus his energy on a better mousetrap.

Hello.

The trouble with the Wankel is that it is not a very efficient engine.
Lots of horsepower in a small space, but not good on fuel.

[WØTKX]

ONES and ZEROS boards and stairs.

Avatar material.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/sets/images/function-floor-graph.gif

[KG4CGC]

Avatar material.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/sets/images/function-floor-graph.gif
Pretty damn amazing.

[W3MIV]

He said they hope to have a 25KW unit running by the end of the year. That's about 33HP--roughly the same as the engine that powered the older VW Beetles.

That is plenty of power for the use intended, which is hybrid gasoline/electric. The target is not Formula One.

[NQ6U]

That is plenty of power for the use intended, which is hybrid gasoline/electric. The target is not Formula One.

Yep, although a properly designed hybrid does not need to be a slug either. It's good to have some acceleration power to call up when needed.

[KA5PIU]

Yep, although a properly designed hybrid does not need to be a slug either. It's good to have some acceleration power to call up when needed.

Hello.

And that is the point of a true hybrid.
The battery provides enough power for very quick starts and plenty of get up and go.
But, once up to speed an automobile uses very little of the horsepower available, be it gasoline or a hybrid.
By providing a steady source of energy the car can average out the power needs.
In this manner a smaller and more efficient engine can do the work of a much larger engine.

[ab1ga]

Sounds like a concept that will be implemented in 'banks' of motors.

Yep, sort of like with electric motors. You can increase output power and torque by making the unit longer as well as increasing the diameter.
I'd imagine larger engines could be built up from "slices" on a common shaft, which would itself have nice production benefits.

73,

[ab1ga]

Hello.

And that is the point of a true hybrid.
The battery provides enough power for very quick starts and plenty of get up and go.
But, once up to speed an automobile uses very little of the horsepower available, be it gasoline or a hybrid.
By providing a steady source of energy the car can average out the power needs.
In this manner a smaller and more efficient engine can do the work of a much larger engine.

Precisely. It's tempting to view a hybrid vehicle as an electric vehicle with an on-board generator for battery charging, but I prefer to view them as ICE powered vehicles with load leveling. Viewed that way, it's evident that a capacitor bank may be able to substitute for part of the battery. The unit would probably be lighter, capable of even larger current pulses, and would be able to recapture more of the energy from regenerative braking.

Yes, I want one. Just to play with. For a little while.

73,

[W4RLR]

Fantastic. Nice to know that some folks in Michigan still know something about autos and engines. Even if the someone is another great American engineer like Werner von Braun. ;)

("Vunce zeh rrrrrrahketz are uph, who cairz vair zey kum down.... zatz nut my department, sess Werner von Braun.")They love him in Huntsville, Alabama. The venue for the annual Huntsville Hamfest is the downtown Von Braun Center.