New battery technology.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

I was looking up battery replacements for older equipment when I was sent a sample set of Lithium Titanate cells.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
This is the very type of cell in the Citizen watch Eco-Drive.
Someone saw my work in repowering devices and the care in how I have done this and was impressed.
This is not my first effort with this type of cell, each of my VX-7R radios has one in it internally as the time backup cell.

[N2CHX]

http://www.maniacworld.com/how-to-Create-a-Lemon-Battery.jpg

[NQ6U]

How about a link to the company selling those batteries you just got?

And, of course, the inevitable:

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/gyrogeerloose/pickle-stains.jpg

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

No link to a place selling them, but how about the place that makes them. ;)
http://www.altairnano.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=546&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=10724
There is an application kit available but how you get it is up to you.
If you do not act like some sleezeball ham who expects the world for free you might get somewhere.

[NQ6U]

You're so...predictable, Hajji Rudi. That link is worthless.

[n2ize]

Riddle me this...

Lithium Titanate Battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery)

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

Yes, this would appear to be an up and coming technology.
And, worthless link? there is clearly a link to the applications kit.
What I was supplied is a salesman sample, I scrounge on my own, you need to learn to do the same.

[KA5PIU]

Riddle me this...

Lithium Titanate Battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery)

http://www.westwalesmodels.co.uk/epages/es114103.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es114103_es121994722150/Categories/Batteries/LiPloy
They are already out but not in mass production.
In this one case the hobby type charger can work with this type of cell.
But a consumer edition is still a bit away, concerns with safety and the like.
It is expected that this type of battery will power the electric car of the future.

[W1GUH]

Gee....wonder what he's going to charge 'em with? :evil:

[NQ6U]

Hello.

And, worthless link? there is clearly a link to the applications kit.

One you obviously didn't use. Try it for yourself.

http://www.altairnano.com/appkit

[KA5PIU]

One you obviously didn't use. Try it for yourself.

http://www.altairnano.com/appkit

Hello.

That takes me here.
http://www.altairnano.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=546&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=12076

[kb2vxa]

"Gee....wonder what he's going to charge 'em with?"

A pole pig and vacuum cleaner motor as a rotary rectifier.

[NQ6U]

"Gee....wonder what he's going to charge 'em with?"

A pole pig and vacuum cleaner motor as a rotary rectifier.

An APU off his Bell 47 and some parts out of one of his obsolete Motorola radios.

[n2ize]

Hello.

Yes, this would appear to be an up and coming technology.
And, worthless link? there is clearly a link to the applications kit.
What I was supplied is a salesman sample, I scrounge on my own, you need to learn to do the same.

One problem with LiPo batteries is the long charging time. If these can match or exceed LiPo's in current density, yet charge faster and be safer then it sounds promising to me.

[WØTKX]

http://www.maniacworld.com/how-to-Create-a-Lemon-Battery.jpg

When I saw the title of this thread, and the author... I had the same idea for a picture.

Great minds think alike. :mrgreen:

Scaaaawy, eh? :snicker:

http://blissfullydomestic.com/wp-content/uploads/funny-pictures-cat-presents-scary-movies.jpg

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

I am not so much concerned with charge time as current density and self discharge rate.
LiPo battery technology at present allows for 20 minute charge times.
There are AA cells with a 15 minute charge cycle on the consumer market.
But the slower charge rate prolongs the life of the cells, that is pretty much a given.
The old GE PE talkies and the like, HT-220, had battery pack lifetimes of over 2 years in daily use when on an 8 hour charge rate.
The 3 hour fast chargers cut that to around a year.
This was in the era of the NiCad, replacing the cells with newer cells increase the capacity so much that it is not much of an issue.
But, remember that even though a NiMH cell has a greater capacity and so it takes longer to charge to full capacity, the amount of heat produced will be the same.
So, what was a 3 hour rate for a NiCad is now a 11 hour rate for the NiMH, but the amount of current for that cell physical size is the same.
The best option is to trickle charge if at all possible, a 24 hour charge rate and leave it in a convertacom most of the time.
But most products now simply supply a smaller battery pack and provide a faster charge rate.
An HT-220 with a NiMH pack can operate the entire weekend, from Friday night to Monday morning, in regular use on fireguard duty at Civil Air Patrol.
There are no other radios but the lunchbox PT series that can match that, nothing.
This is a real world 'this is useful to us' type of thing.
So, it depends on what you would like to see a battery, and the device it powers, do.

[ka4dpo]

One problem with LiPo batteries is the long charging time. If these can match or exceed LiPo's in current density, yet charge faster and be safer then it sounds promising to me.

That problem has been solved. The new high discharge Lipos can be charged at 5C so a 3000 mah Lipo for example can be charged 15 amps. I don't normally do this as I think it shortens battery life but they are getting better every day.

[KA5PIU]

That problem has been solved. The new high discharge Lipos can be charged at 5C so a 3000 mah Lipo for example can be charged 15 amps. I don't normally do this as I think it shortens battery life but they are getting better every day.

Hello.

Yes, a 20 minute charge rate is an option, but why not have 2 or 3 battery packs on charge at a 1 hour rate, or longer.
I see the guys racing the little RC cars that run 2 packs at fast charge, swap one out and put it on the charger.
But, if the same person had 3 much cheaper chargers and 4 battery packs the same swap out cycle would yield a much longer overall battery life, at the same overall cost.
The same is true of laptops, 2 battery packs and an an external charger would allow for infinite portable operation.
The old Icom 02AT was about as close to ideal from a power management point of view as was possible.
There were several battery options, all accepted a drop, in charger, some had side power and charge ports.
The radio itself had a power and charge port on the top of the radio.
One could plug into the top of the radio and power it and charge, remove this connector and plug it directly into another battery, come back and connect back to the radio and swap out batteries if needed or not.
The radio was built in the NiCad era and replacement with NiMH more than triples the operating time of a pack so 2 packs will provide uninterrupted power.
If a radio were built in the form factor of the IC-02AT but in multi band like the modern radios, I would go for it.
Battery life and a good audio amplifier are nice.
The Japanese want everything small, the smaller the better, it is a cultural thing, but how small do we need this?
The wrist cellphone is common in Japan, bluetooth only, would you want one?
So why not concentrate on longer operating time so that charging would not need to be so frequent.
A charge that lasts 6 months and a solar charger that can recharge in a day is the norm for some Citizen watches.

[W1GUH]

Related to this is, Why can't Yaesu and Kenwood (and probably Icom) make ham gear with quick charging? My 'F6A is s...l...o....w, and so is my '817. OTOH, every piece of consumer gear I have comes automatically with quick-charging...cell phone...laptop...PS3 controllers...PSP, etc...etc...etc.

Get outta here....the technology is mature and the NRE costs have long been amortized, so what's up with this?

[n2ize]

Related to this is, Why can't Yaesu and Kenwood (and probably Icom) make ham gear with quick charging? My 'F6A is s...l...o....w, and so is my '817. OTOH, every piece of consumer gear I have comes automatically with quick-charging...cell phone...laptop...PS3 controllers...PSP, etc...etc...etc.

Get outta here....the technology is mature and the NRE costs have long been amortized, so what's up with this?

What exactly do you mean by "quick". My radio used NiMH batts and it charges quick. Much faster than the old NiCads used to. The main thing however is that the battery lasts so damned long that I rarely have to charge it.

[NQ6U]

[...] Yaesu and Kenwood (and probably Icom) [...]

That's Yaecomwood.

[KA5PIU]

Related to this is, Why can't Yaesu and Kenwood (and probably Icom) make ham gear with quick charging? My 'F6A is s...l...o....w, and so is my '817. OTOH, every piece of consumer gear I have comes automatically with quick-charging...cell phone...laptop...PS3 controllers...PSP, etc...etc...etc.

Get outta here....the technology is mature and the NRE costs have long been amortized, so what's up with this?

Hello.

The trouble is the cost of the battery pack.
A laptop pack can easily run the cost of a radio, $200 and up.
The VX-3r can do fast charge in an external charger as it can use smart batteries intended for a camera.
Note that the battery supplied with the VX-3R is NOT a smart cell unit! ONLY a smart cell battery can be fast charged.
Batteries that fit this radio come in 4 flavors, normal and high capacity and regular and smart cell.
I use the non-smart cell batteries, such as the Kodak KLIC-5000 or Fujifilm NP-60 and an external regular rate charger as the radio can not fast charge so there is nothing to be gained, I can leave a pack on the charger and 2 hours later it is charged, swap out in seconds and be on my way.
Both of the chargers I bought can do 110 AC and 12VDC and came with the batteries.
10 hours operating time is not uncommon with the larger capacity cells.