I passed my general!!! Now, I need some help

[W9JAM]

Hey everyone. I just wanted to share the good news. I took my General Class Element 3 yesterday morning and passed!

I live in a mobile home park and the owner told me he doesn't want ANYTHING that looks like a beam antenna put up. I'm wanting to do a dipole but not sure if the idea I have for it will work.

Was thinking of getting 3 15' pieces of PVC pipe, running the wire between all of them with the coax hookup on the middle pipe. The pipes would be held up by those self-supporting flagpole stands. Thoughts?

The trailer dimensions are 65'x26'x17'

Thank you for any help.

Jeremiah
W9JAM

[W9JAM]

Just updated the signature to reflect the new callsign, sorry about that.

[ad4mg]

Hey everyone. I just wanted to share the good news. I took my General Class Element 3 yesterday morning and passed!

I live in a mobile home park and the owner told me he doesn't want ANYTHING that looks like a beam antenna put up. I'm wanting to do a dipole but not sure if the idea I have for it will work.

Was thinking of getting 3 15' pieces of PVC pipe, running the wire between all of them with the coax hookup on the middle pipe. The pipes would be held up by those self-supporting flagpole stands. Thoughts?

The trailer dimensions are 65'x26'x17'

Thank you for any help.

Jeremiah
W9JAM
Congratulations on the upgrade!

One suggestion on the dipole ... if you feed it with 300 ohm twin lead and use a 4:1 balun as close as possible to the rig to switch to coax, the antenna should load on several bands. Ordinary twin lead (like that used for TV antennas) will handle the power output from your rig, but if you're planning to use an amplifier, the heavier gauge twin lead available from amateur radio dealers like the Wire Man should be used.

During the continuing solar minimum, you will find the low bands to be your friend. At ~65', the dipole should perform pretty well on 40 meters, although the limited height is going to dictate an omni-directional pattern, and ground loss will also be a factor, but don't let that deter you!

[n2ize]

Even better. Feed the antenna with 300 ohm TV twin lead. Or better yet, 450 ohm ham radio twin lead, or still better, ladder line. Cut the antenna for the lowest (frequency) band you will operate on...as instructed above. Match it to your radio with a tuner...preferably a link coupled variety. You can sometimes find them at ham fests. They are also easy to build if you can get some coil stock and variable condensers.

[rot]

The whole [dipole>300 ohm TV Twin>Balun/Tuner] deal is so classic. :clap:
I was the recommend to me when I did the general. Had more damn fun with that thing.
Enjoy and Congrats.
rot

[WV6Z]

Congrats!!! Sounds like you have some pretty good ideas already! N2IZE and ROTley definitely have you pointed in the right direction. Although there are some more efficient wire designs, they tend to require a lot more vertical altitude which may put you under the landlord's microscope. Start with your plans, continue to investigate systems that may be more efficient and experiment as you go. The important thing now is to get some wire up, get on the air and see how effective you can be with what you will be permitted to do.

[W3MIV]

All good advice to profit from, Jeremiah. The only quibbles I would have are with the TV twin-lead. I would urge you to search around and get hold of some honest, 300 ohm ladder line. It is often available at hamfests, and there are a number of outfits selling online. I think DX Engineering sells it. Google is your friend.

Bring that line straight to your tuner -- and a good tuner is a must. Again, hamfests as IZE recommends are a good source, but don't fall for a lot of the baloney about MFJ. His tuners work well, and something like a 904 with the meter and balun make things a bit easier. If running the ladder line into the shack is a problem (300ohm stuff is a hell of a lot easier than the 450), you can connect the coax and the balanced line just outside the shack (waterproof it) and make a coil of about a dozen turns of coax in a six- to nine-inch circle to choke off currents on the shield. The tuner will handle the match.

Finally, I would add two feet and make the total length of your dipole 67 feet -- every little bit helps. ;)

Don't try to rely on the tuner built into your rig. It will not have sufficient matching capacity, for your configuration will be well outside the usual 3:1 envelope such tuners can handle. Having a meter on the tuner is a big plus.

Most important: Have fun. Let us know when you "gits on the ahr."

[PA5COR]

Congratulations on the upgrade ;)

Some good addvise above, try that out first, you might be surprised how good it works ;)

[NQ6U]

I concur with pretty much everything that's been said here but would add that if it's at all possible to get that wire up to thirty feet, by all means do it. You'll find your 40m propagation will be much improved. At fifteen feet, most of your signal will go straight up an you'll mostly just be heating the clouds.

[W3MIV]

NVIS works better than nuttin. Given the landlord issue, thirty feet is likely outside the envelope.

[W7XF]

FWIW W9JAM is my former co-driver who I helped get his tech.

Charles... Get that new General a drink on me!!

[W3MIV]

FWIW W9JAM is my former co-driver who I helped get his tech.

Well, son, ye done gud! It would be a pleasure to QSO with you both.

[N8YX]

What kind of supporting structures and lot do you have available to you?

If you have space for radials and a couple decent trees near by...consider putting up a flat-top ("T") and feeding it with a single-wire auto-tuner such as an AH-4, AH-180, LDG or similar. Get as many radials on (and in) the ground as you can; tie them to the tuner's case ground. You could use smallish, hard-to-see wire for the elevated section of this arrangement.

Mount the tuner as near to ground and as far away from your trailer as you can and run the radiator upwards. Avoid making its overall length a half-wavelength on any given band; it'll be difficult to tune if you do.

[suddenseer]

Your aerial system may be the aggravating part of running HF. Most of us are living in small places, with small lots. I had a 40M vertical flagpole at one property I rented. It was the most fun i had building a stealth antenna that really worked well. I worked all continents except Antarctica with 100W CW, and several dx stations QRP. I have some ladder line around here someplace that I made myself. My boss gave me the scrap pieces of Lexan material. I was able to cut about 100 spacers, and drill holes in them. I am not very handy at DIY projects, so it cannot be that hard. The Island has some real antenna/electronic gurus who like helping neophytes like myself. I was a BE when I was younger, some of the Islanders here have forgotten more than I will ever learn. Don't be afraid to ask questions in the technical forums.
Don't forget 10M/6M, you will have good local/scatter contacts, and when the bands open what a blast! You don't need big antennas to have fun. The noise floor on 6 meters has dropped substantially since the analog tv broadcasts were stopped. I have just as much fun running my peanut whistle on the magic band than I do in the bottom 25 Khz of the CW bands. Most of all, have fun and big CONGRATS from the Buckeye State.

[N9FE]

Open wire dipole "doublet" and a scatter stick "antron 99" is the prefered landlord hiding apartment antenna. Never had a prob with any landlord this way.

[N2CHX]

FWIW W9JAM is my former co-driver who I helped get his tech.



Ah Jeezus, you corrupted the poor lad. In more ways than one I am sure.

Jeremiah, welcome and congratulations. These guys really know their stuff and will be a huge help to you.

[ka4dpo]

First of all congratulations Jeremiah and welcome to the majors. Next, use that trailer to your advantage. One of the most simple antennas is a random length end fed wire. You can run the wire in any direction and it can be very thin making it hard to see but it will work just as well as 00 cable. The most important things needed to make one work are a tuner (this can be an auto tuner or a manual tuner, one will not work better than the other) and a good RF ground (this is where the trailer comes in). The key to success is to have plenty of low impedance ground to work against so be sure to have several ground wires and make sure all grounds terminate at the trailer preferably a copper water pipe or, where the AC service ground is. This includes the tuner ground, all ground terminals should connect at one single place.


In your case an AH4 would be ideal but personally I prefer a manual tuner specifically, an L Network for end fed wires. You can build an L Network tuner on a board from parts that can be found at any hamfest or on Ebay, or other swap nets. It only requires one variable capacitor of about 250 pf or more, more is better, and one inductor either rotary or fixed. You can use an alligator clip to change taps on a fixed inductor, rotary ones are more convenient. Check out the ARRL handbook or antenna handbook and you can find everything you need to build one. Good luck and don't hesitate to email me if you need some help or just have questions. John..

[WØTKX]

Dumb question... the lot and/or trailer has a long dimension. Is it running N-S or E-W?
Trees and other support structures as well. Need a map of the space at your place.

Is there any possibility of running radials either in the air (about 8') or in the ground?
Then maybe you could do an inverted L, it may fit in your space better than a dipole.

What is the highest existing support point? Can you put a lightweight mast up higher than that?
Probably not, but getting to 60 foot or so is a big help for lower bands with a dipole.

And think about a Hexbeam on that mast, supporting a dipole/inverted vee underneath for a luxury install.
Hexbeams don't look like regular beams. :snicker:

http://www.mgs4u.com/pictures/Hexbeam-by-Stefano-IK5PWQ.jpg

[KG4CGC]

Get that new General a drink on me!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/drinks/medium_BlueHawaii.jpg

[kd8dey]

Since you live in a mobile park do you happen to have an outside clothes line or able to put one up?

Take and replace the line with some copper weld and load it up as an end fed!!

hey, It worked for the resistance during "The Big One" (WWII) according to the movies :)

Hang various pieces of laundry and slide them along the wire for fine tuning/Band changes etc.

Ps.
Congrats on the upgrade :)

[KG4CGC]

Hang various pieces of laundry and slide them along the wireand watch them burst into flames or a neighbor kid or a stray animal.

[kd8dey]

and watch them burst into flames or a neighbor kid or a stray animal.

So Thats how the Nazi found the hidden antennas!!

[ka4dpo]

So Thats how the Nazi found the hidden antennas!!


Yep, they just looked for the charcoal underwear.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

Use your imagination, and common sense.
A beam looks like chit, simple as that.
Add that to the beauty of the average mobile home park and you can see the problem. ;)

Some things, like a clothesline antenna can work very well.
Get type BB insulated telegraph wire or insulated copperweld wire.
Your end insulators need to be electric fence supports, use the large ones so you can use the clothesline as a clothesline.
The maximum power you will be able to use in a mobile home park is around 100 watts, you simply can not get the wire high enough to be safe.
But with a bit of effort you can get a signal out.
And, why is it that construction workers and truck drivers always seem to end up in a mobile home?

[kd8dey]

Hello.

why is it that construction workers and truck drivers always seem to end up in a mobile home?

It's a Redneck thing, you wouldn't understand.

But it goes along with Beer & BBQ.

[KG4CGC]

Experiment. A nearby tree is your best friend with proper ground of course too. Then be vigilant about unhooking it when not in use.
A wire straight to the top then down the length of the trunk making the whole thing look like an inverted-L.

[KG4CGC]

http://forums.hamisland.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by KA5PIU http://forums.hamisland.net/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php?p=327110#post327110)
Hello.

why is it that construction workers and truck drivers always seem to end up in a mobile home?

You know the saying: "Go RV'ing."

[WV6Z]

Experiment. A nearby tree is your best friend with proper ground of course too. Then be vigilant about unhooking it when not in use.
A wire straight to the top then down the length of the trunk making the whole thing look like an inverted-L.

Assuming there is a tree available, of course.

[W3MIV]

If you're young, you could plant one.

[KG4CGC]

Assuming there is a tree available, of course.
You're assuming? People steal trees all the time.

[kd8dey]

If you're young, you could plant one.

That's just it. With the average age of hams, he would be dead before the tree grew tall enough.

[ab1ga]

A couple of questions come to mind:

1. The landlord says nothing that looks like a beam, so I'm assuming a wire antenna would be okay. How about a mast, like a flagpole?

2. Instead of using a flagpole as a vertical, you could use it as a center mast for an inverted V. Run the feedline down the center, and tie off the ends to two corners of the home. Flagpoles up to 40' seem readily available, but I don't know how much you're willing to spend or whether you can get permission.

3. Instead of a fiberglass flagpole, you can go into back issues of the Handbook, Antenna Book, or others and find idea for a wooden mast. One A-frame wooden mast went up to 40feet. The A-frame mast only really requires guying along one axis, and probably a much more modest ground preparation. Can you put in guy wires, or better, anchor the mast to the side of the home like some of the old TV mast mounts? If you attach a trellis to the lower eight feet or so you can grow a climbing plant and tell your landlord it's a beautification project!

73 and good luck,

[KC2UGV]

Do you have trees? If so, remember, trees are nature's dipole supports :)

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

A beam looks like chit!
A tower runs a close second.
Now, with that said, nearly all mobile home parks have the little metal boxes close together with power coming from overhead lines at 20 feet.
So, your absolute maximum safe hight needs to be no taller than the maximum elevation of the power lines less 5 feet unless you have an assured fall path all around.
In short, do not run HF in a mobile home park, move to the outlying area where little metal boxes can roam free. ;)
I lived in a mobile home park for a while.
Anything over 100 watts will cause trouble for the other little metal boxes with AM or SSB, that is a given.
The little metal boxes have an ineffective RF ground strap that is the galvanized metal tie down to a steel stake.
Add to this the copper electrical ground and you have a massive nonlinear junction times the number of straps times the number of semi mobile RF junction units provided at said mobile home park.

[KG4CGC]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=3223+Summersong+Dr%0D%0A%0D%0AIndianapolis, +IN+46241%0D%0A%0D%0AUSA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

OK, I see your dilemma. An end fed invert V will get you the most wire in the air.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=3223+Summersong+Dr%0D%0A%0D%0AIndianapolis, +IN+46241%0D%0A%0D%0AUSA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

[WØTKX]

Maybe a maypole antenna... for omni directional coverage.

http://www.qso.com/westsat/Maypole/index.html

http://drumon.com/ham_maypole.html

[W3MIV]

Goodness, if poor Jeremiah is not befuddled by now, he should be. I am.

[WØTKX]

Some here say you're always befuddled. :mrgreen: :stickpoke:

[NQ6U]

Maybe a maypole antenna... for omni directional coverage.

Nah, I don't recommend one of those. The sap attracts ants and gets everything really sticky.

[W3MIV]

Some here say you're always befuddled. :mrgreen: :stickpoke:

Give him or her a cigar. Probably the only person on the entire forum who knows what in hell he or she is doing.

[kd8dey]

Nah, I don't recommend one of those. The sap attracts ants and gets everything really sticky.

Speaking of sap, It's about that time of year to collect maple sap to make syrup......

[NQ6U]

Speaking of sap, It's about that time of year to collect maple sap to make syrup......

Maypole syrup.

[WØTKX]

Stretching it further, Islander style. :snicker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBvoWr2kUUY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBvoWr2kUUY