View Full Version : Can anyone explain to me...
... why some people seem to think a "better" radio will cure all their ills?
Case in point.... (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?285101-Best-DX-rig-for-under-1000&p=2178617&posted=1#post2178617)
PA5COR
02-16-2011, 03:50 AM
Antenna's, if you have noise, hunt it down and remove.
I run the Ft 847 with Collins filters, an low entry radio for HF, but work the world, on 160 10K miles or more with 400 watts SSB in a city....
Thanks to the antenna's i can, not for the radio...
Going for a FT 5000 will boost the looks on the table, but will not really add in new DX.
Hell, I worked VK and JA stations this morning on a fifteen-year-old Icom IC-736. It ain't the radio.
Newest is always better. Otherwise, why bother. So marketing gurus would have you believe.
Some people, or should I say induhviduals (thank you, Dogbert), accept postulate that unconditionally.
That said, while some models of radios are better than others -- a lot depends on the design, age, condition (soft tubes, bad transistors, etc) and extras -- filters for one. And there are external factors -- such as coax, antenna, and antenna placement. To say nothing of local QRM & QRN.
The reality is that most new radios show only incremental improvements, if that, over their predecessors. Most updates are in the bells & whistles (computer interface, menu screens, detachable head, ergonomic changes, other cosmetics). Sometimes, the new radio is actually a step down. And sometimes the new model is mandated by a part or key component becoming Unobtanium; for example, a driving factor in the Orion II design was that manufacture of a key CPU used in the Orion was about to be discontinued.
All else being equal, give me a good (let alone great) antenna and a 10 or 25 watt rig, and I ought to be able to run rings around the Latest&Greatest 100 W rig on a mediocre one.
Some have yet to figure this out.
Hell, I worked VK and JA stations this morning on a fifteen-year-old Icom IC-736. It ain't the radio.
I worked S51V on 160 the other night on a ~25 year old Corsair II. Sometimes, it IS the radio. (That Corsair heard things that my "brand new" TS-480SAT didn't even detect)
I'm waiting to see if the OP responds. Usually when I suggest they have to do any actual work, they fall silent, or ignore what I've posted.
It's all my fault for being "flashy", you know..... ;)
I'm waiting to see if the OP responds. Usually when I suggest they have to do any actual work, they fall silent, or ignore what I've posted.
It's all my fault for being "flashy", you know..... ;)
What? Ask that they actually work? Do something for themselves? Buddy, that will get you infarction points fer sure!
As I suspected, he was really just looking for an excuse to buy a new radio (http://forums2.qrz.com/showthread.php?285101-Best-DX-rig-for-under-1000&p=2179824#post2179824).
Wait until he finds out that it's not going to make any real difference. :roll: :wall:
A G5RV @ 35 feet on a TS-480 isn't going to be any better than a TS-570 on a G5RV @ 35 feet.
Well, there's DX and then there's DX. While I agree with the general principles about the antenna, if you're into low band work - the radio makes a world of difference. If there wasn't a valid market for the huge IP3 numbers, people wouldn't buy them. And they do make a big difference if you're somewhere in the pile for 3Y0X.
The first year I did 160, I was using an inverted vee with the apex about 40'. The rig was a TT Omni-6 with the version 3 upgrades, all the filter slots filled, and the Inrad 600Hz. roofing filter. Worked 93 entities using that...wouldn't have come even close to that with a TS-570/480 or even an IC-7000. The RX just isn't there in those rigs.
Well, there's DX and then there's DX. While I agree with the general principles about the antenna, if you're into low band work - the radio makes a world of difference.
I've found that depends on whether you're working 75m, 160m, or a contest. Beyond that, most radios are quite capable of working DX.
My IC-746Pro has work a hell of a lot of DX, but it can't separate big signals on 160m. That's part of the reason I have a K3.
Now if I could just get a small lot RX antenna set up for 160m.....
I've found that depends on whether you're working 75m, 160m, or a contest. Beyond that, most radios are quite capable of working DX.
My IC-746Pro has work a hell of a lot of DX, but it can't separate big signals on 160m. That's part of the reason I have a K3.
Now if I could just get a small lot RX antenna set up for 160m.....
I agree in that context. Got enough room for a K9AY loop setup?
And I'm officially jealous of that K3!
I have ran an Atlas 210-X, Kenwoods TS-430, TS-450S/AT, two TS-570D(g)'s an Icom 736 and a friends ICOM 746 all on exactly the same 'antenna farm' (the current antenna farm). The 450S had some dandy filters, the 746 had some rather advanced, in comparison, filters and the two 570's had decent 'now ancient technology' DSP and the 430 and 210-X were as stripped and devoid of any current technology other than being all transistor rigs, as anything could possibly be. I can honestly say, without reservation, that by far the 210-X had the hottest and quietest receive (no, that's not an oxymoron) of any all transistor rig I have ever ran. I would say that the only thing that I have ever ran that even comes remotely close to the old Atlas as far as all transistor receive goes was an old, pristine Yaesu FT-101ex that I ran on a similar antenna farm what I have now.
Not mentioned is a Yaesu FT-450 that I ran for a couple of months which was by far the most horrible rig that I have ever ran, either with this or other antenna arrangements.
I used to run a FT-857D in the mobile with a very special and rare Carolina Tarheel Slim 50....... I tried it in the shack and it worked quite well there too, but, I'm still not sure why the FT-450 was such a horrible piece of crap..... maybe I just didn't know how to fly it very well.
Although I have been known to give myself a bit of an advantage during pile ups, for regular rag chew situations, I can honestly say that thanks to my rather unusual (but not really) geographic vantage point, combined with my choice of antennas, I have never failed to make contact with any station that I could hear.
In summary, IMHO;
Radio = 1% critical
Antenna = 99% critical
Legal Limit QRO = 1%
TOTAL = 101% :)
Well, there's DX and then there's DX. While I agree with the general principles about the antenna, if you're into low band work - the radio makes a world of difference. If there wasn't a valid market for the huge IP3 numbers, people wouldn't buy them. And they do make a big difference if you're somewhere in the pile for 3Y0X.
The first year I did 160, I was using an inverted vee with the apex about 40'. The rig was a TT Omni-6 with the version 3 upgrades, all the filter slots filled, and the Inrad 600Hz. roofing filter. Worked 93 entities using that...wouldn't have come even close to that with a TS-570/480 or even an IC-7000. The RX just isn't there in those rigs.You won't hear me argue. When it came to working the pileups or the light signals, the Corsair II ran rings around the TS-480SAT. It heard things that the 480 didn't, on the same antenna. The Omni VI+ is just as good as the Corsair, slightly better with some of the digital filtering and such.
It might be fair to say that a great antenna will not truly compensate for a poor radio, although it will help make a poor radio appear to operate better than it really is. And a great radio on a poor antenna will appear to be worse than it really is, under the same logic.
But all else being equal, it makes more sense to invest in the antenna than the radio.
About the only time one needs a "better" radio is when their antenna system is capable of delivering so much signal to the receiver section that you encounter selectivity and IP3 issues. The average setup won't, unless your next-door neighbor is also a ham and consistently runs a kilowatt.
The antenna is usually the "unseen" portion of the setup, and in the eyes of most operators it doesn't merit investiture like a shiny new wonder-box will.
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