"A Beautiful Mind" revisited

[N4VGB]

I watched the movie "A beautiful Mind" for the umpteenth time last night. For those few who might not know it's a true story about a brilliant mathematician named John Forbes Nash Jr. who is a professor at Princeton and won the Nobel in 1994 for his 1978 discovery of non-cooperative equilibria. All the while suffering from paranoid schizophrenia with the usual very realistic delusions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.

It is a very good and moving movie, he's an amazing gent that desrves credit for his brilliant works and self ability to control his own schizophrenia. But plugging this movie isn't really the purpose of this post.

Nash has some rather peculiar views on money in general and seems to greatly disdain the power money has over many people. Many of his principles were adopted by different U.S. agencies and even foreign governments as a standard measure for economics and trade. I guess the Federal Trade Commission made the most use of his work in judging to allow or deny trades, mergers and acquisitions.

Sooooo just wondering out loud. Here we have a man who openly describes himself as crazy. We adopt his 1978 theories about the same time the doors to our economic collapse were opened in 1980 & 1990.:chin: See where I'm headed here, did we adopt a flawed theory as our financial standard from a mad man!?:doh::lol:

[w3bny]

Actually, I preferred the off Broadway remake... "A beautiful butt"

Is...that Anubis on the slide?

[W1GUH]

I always have to look up my password that's been embedded in my forearm when I log onto the island.
BTW...seen Shutter Island?

[N4VGB]

Actually, I preferred the off Broadway remake... "A beautiful butt"

Is...that Anubis on the slide?

I dunno what kind of creature that is, looks a bit like an upright wolf? It's just a stock pic off the net. The folks at rockyourglock.com have all kinds of weird artwork parts for sale, looks a lot like their work......weird.

[KC2UGV]

Ever benefited from medicine's knowledge of hypothermia? Another segment of knowledge built by a sick, and demented person: Dr. Mengele.

People who are insane can sometimes come up with good stuff.

[w3bny]

Ever benefited from medicine's knowledge of hypothermia? Another segment of knowledge built by a sick, and demented person: Dr. Mengele.

People who are insane can sometimes come up with good stuff.

Unfortunately, there is truth to that. Unfortunate that Dr. M did that stuff and kept immaculate lab notes that we (allies) captured and used the data.

[KC2UGV]

Unfortunately, there is truth to that. Unfortunate that Dr. M did that stuff and kept immaculate lab notes that we (allies) captured and used the data.

It's still a debate today as to whether it is ethical or not to use those notes...

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199005173222011

[W3WN]

First, remember that the movie, while based on the book, is not a biography. There's a great deal more to the story of Dr. Nash and his family, to his mental illness, and to his discoveries. Significant parts of the movie are fiction, or are based on related events that were combined or, ah, adjusted for dramatic effect.

His real story is fascinating, but would probably not translate well into a movie.

Second, Dr. Nash's theories on gamesmanship and related economics were originally developed in his younger years (late 1940's to early 1950's), before his illness to significant effect (and again, not at all as portrayed), circa 1959. Did the illness affect his reasoning at that time? One wonders. Does that make his reasoning fallacious? Not neccesarily.

Third, and most importantly, the discoveries in question date back to the 1940's. Not the 1970's. If you look at some of his listed works on the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.) entry, you'll see that the published dates start off in the 1950 - 1953 era. And while he may have credit for these theorums, many others have worked on them, and published other insights based on them, after.

So, did our economists adopt a flawed theory from a mad man? Was the theory flawed? Did they actually implement his theory? Was he mad at the time? Those are the questions we must first answer before the main question can be evaluated.

[w3bny]

Well Mercedes Benz did the only..ONLY child cadaver tests and they used the hell out of that data. Saw the film, kinda icky. We have arguments here about the validity of NVTS (non-viable test subjects...sanitary way of saying cadaver test) testing (over 50, dead, tissue already fixated, no reflex other than inertia, accelerometer mounting procedure, yadda yadda) but its still done. Wayne Univ. is about the biggest place that does it.

[N4VGB]

First, remember that the movie, while based on the book, is not a biography. There's a great deal more to the story of Dr. Nash and his family, to his mental illness, and to his discoveries. Significant parts of the movie are fiction, or are based on related events that were combined or, ah, adjusted for dramatic effect.

His real story is fascinating, but would probably not translate well into a movie.

Second, Dr. Nash's theories on gamesmanship and related economics were originally developed in his younger years (late 1940's to early 1950's), before his illness to significant effect (and again, not at all as portrayed), circa 1959. Did the illness affect his reasoning at that time? One wonders. Does that make his reasoning fallacious? Not neccesarily.

Third, and most importantly, the discoveries in question date back to the 1940's. Not the 1970's. If you look at some of his listed works on the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.) entry, you'll see that the published dates start off in the 1950 - 1953 era. And while he may have credit for these theorums, many others have worked on them, and published other insights based on them, after.

So, did our economists adopt a flawed theory from a mad man? Was the theory flawed? Did they actually implement his theory? Was he mad at the time? Those are the questions we must first answer before the main question can be evaluated.

Oh yes he was quite the productive fellow but the main source of what might be a problem lies with the 1978 non-cooperative equilibria. Other works by him may have been applied in finance but that seems to be the one with the most far reaching affect.

There was also a documentary on Nash that I saw once. They visited his brother who is completely around the bend.

I dunno, shortly after his 1978 work we let the Fed Reserve and FDIC force themselves on independent non-member banks. Then later we really goofed and repealed the Glass-Steagall Act. Could it all have been from Nash's work? It's a bit unnerving to think that such a thing could possibly happen!

But I also have a theory that goes like this: mathematics genius+mad man+gamesmanship+utter disdain for the concept of currency+formulas for economics adopted by the world=world financial meltdown. And I'm not talking about an accidental flaw in the works but a purposeful one placed there by Dr. Nash!

It would be so coooool to find out Dr. Nash had pulled the wool over all eyes and won a Nobel for doing so!

[WØTKX]

Huh. 'splain to me the premise you are trying to get to? Are proposing that this gaming theory by Nash ('eff you bro) is a subversive plot, or dead on accurate? :dunno:

Keep in mind this 'tis 'bout the same as the Classic Liberal (neener:) Austrian Economic Dude of Renown, Herr Hayek? Do you like speed as much as Ayn Rand did?

Itchy arm? Trigger finger?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vee8vL9-DLk/TRe8ELCVX4I/AAAAAAAACGw/bYPdatK_AVY/s1600/100-voices-an-oral-history-of-ayn-rand-25828347.jpeg

[NQ6U]

"100 Voices?" Is that how many Rand was hearing in her head? Thanks--that explains a lot.

[w3bny]

My 100 voices tell me to go buy beer. Then they sing the "numa-numa" song.

[WØTKX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gg5LOd_Zus


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gg5LOd_Zus

[N4VGB]

Huh. 'splain to me the premise you are trying to get to?<snip>
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vee8vL9-DLk/TRe8ELCVX4I/AAAAAAAACGw/bYPdatK_AVY/s1600/100-voices-an-oral-history-of-ayn-rand-25828347.jpeg

It's so simple, here I'll let this guy explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o

[ka8ncr]

It's still a debate today as to whether it is ethical or not to use those notes...

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199005173222011

I think NASA answered that question...apparently.

[WØTKX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IotsMu1J8fA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IotsMu1J8fA

[N2NH]

Ever benefited from medicine's knowledge of hypothermia? Another segment of knowledge built by a sick, and demented person: Dr. Mengele.

People who are insane can sometimes come up with good stuff.

Yeh, look at how many adherents Rasputin had. ;)

[N2NH]

So, did our economists adopt a flawed theory from a mad man? Was the theory flawed? Did they actually implement his theory? Was he mad at the time? Those are the questions we must first answer before the main question can be evaluated.

I think the real question is can you realistically expect a sane theory to be formulated let alone adopted when the world is mad?

[w2amr]

It's so simple, here I'll let this guy explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o
Are you getting all of this Rudy?

[N2NH]

First, remember that the movie, while based on the book, is not a biography. There's a great deal more to the story of Dr. Nash and his family...

You probably lost them at 'movie.' They still believe that Archie Bunker was a real person and that John Wayne fought in World Wars I, II, Korea and Vietnam. Heck, some of them think that Reagan was a good president too!
:lol:

[PA5COR]

But, but.... i have seen the movies, it must be true!


:mrgreen:



You probably lost them at 'movie.' They still believe that Archie Bunker was a real person and that John Wayne fought in World Wars I, II, Korea and Vietnam. Heck, some of them think that Reagan was a good president too!
:lol:

[W3WN]

You probably lost them at 'movie.' They still believe that Archie Bunker was a real person and that John Wayne fought in World Wars I, II, Korea and Vietnam. Heck, some of them think that Reagan was a good president too!
:lol:
But, but.... i have seen the movies, it must be true!
:mrgreen:
I know you guys are saying this tongue in cheek. The sad thing is, there are many people who BELIEVE that the movies are acurate depictions of real events.

A great example of this is Disney's Remember the Titans. A key event in the movie, right before the climactic state championship game, is the severe injury to the team captain, followed by a close game and several epiphanies leading to the final victory. Dramatic. But if you look up the history of the real team, you learn that the actual championship game was far different, and said key injury happened weeks later. To say nothing of the "special entrance" the team adopted half way through the movie, which did not happen in real lilfe.

Now try and tell this to my mother-in-law. She doesn't want to hear it.