Small Engine Problems HELP !!

[n2ize]

Well, my Dad managed to get the engine seized in his snow thrower today. It's an MTD snow thrower with a 5.0 Hp Tecumseh engine. Everything was running fine for at least an hour. Then as he was coming up the driveway the engine slowed down sputtered and stopped (as it sometimes does if the thing gets jammed with ice). Of course he restarted it, moved a few feet and it sputtered and stopped again. He repeated the process of trying to restart it each time it sputtered and stopped and on about the 5th try noticed he could no longer pull the starter rope.

I just got done taking a look at it. First thing I noticed is that the oil is a bit low. Second, I checked out the auger, impeller, pulleys, to see if anything was possibly impeding the engine. It appears the engine itself is seized.

Question I have, is ... what the heck do I do ? How do I un-seize it ? Am I going to have to pull the whole engine and break it down ? Or, is there anything I can try first, before I start rebuilding the whole motor

[kd8dey]

overheated. let it cool a while and try again?

[w2amr]

Well, my Dad managed to get the engine seized in his snow thrower today. It's an MTD snow thrower with a 5.0 Hp Tecumseh engine. Everything was running fine for at least an hour. Then as he was coming up the driveway the engine slowed down sputtered and stopped (as it sometimes does if the thing gets jammed with ice). Of course he restarted it, moved a few feet and it sputtered and stopped again. He repeated the process of trying to restart it each time it sputtered and stopped and on about the 5th try noticed he could no longer pull the starter rope.

I just got done taking a look at it. First thing I noticed is that the oil is a bit low. Second, I checked out the auger, impeller, pulleys, to see if anything was possibly impeding the engine. It appears the engine itself is seized.

Question I have, is ... what the heck do I do ? How do I un-seize it ? Am I going to have to pull the whole engine and break it down ? Or, is there anything I can try first, before I start rebuilding the whole motor How low is a bit? If it ran out of oil, it's probably seized because the bearings are cooked and no longer spin. If that's the case, Rudy will tell you how to rebuild it.:agree:

[W5GA]

If it's seized due to no oil, it's probably better to just get a new engine. Check Northern Tool.

[n2ize]

How low is a bit? If it ran out of oil, it's probably seized because the bearings are cooked and no longer spin. If that's the case, Rudy will tell you how to rebuild it.:agree:

Well George, there is oil in the engine. There is a small dipstick and it shows the crankcase oil level to be somewhere between "Add" and "Full"... but closer to the "Add" mark and the full mark. I suspect the major mistake my Dad made was to keep trying to restart it. If the engine keeps slowing down and sputtering out it is trying to tell you something...

Assuming it is a bearing is it worth fixing (can it be fixed). I am pretty good with respect to my mechanical skills. Or, should I just look for a new engine ?

[kc7jty]

how often was the oil changed? If the LOW oil was thick and dirty due to lack of changing you'll probably have to have the engine rebuilt in a machine shop anyway to regrind the crank shaft. Pull the engine, take off the oil pan & the connecting rod cap & see how bad it is.

then again the piston might be seized in the cylinder.

[w2amr]

Well George, there is oil in the engine. There is a small dipstick and it shows the crankcase oil level to be somewhere between "Add" and "Full"... but closer to the "Add" mark and the full mark. I suspect the major mistake my Dad made was to keep trying to restart it. If the engine keeps slowing down and sputtering out it is trying to tell you something...

Assuming it is a bearing is it worth fixing (can it be fixed). I am pretty good with respect to my mechanical skills. Or, should I just look for a new engine ?If it had oil, I can't imagine why it would seize up. Unless something broke inside the engine. If the engine is bad, Doug is right. The best thing is to locate a replacement. BTW, how old is it John?

[W5GA]

Incidentally, Tecumseh went belly up about 18 mos. ago.

[n2ize]

If it had oil, I can't imagine why it would seize up. Unless something broke inside the engine. If the engine is bad, Doug is right. The best thing is to locate a replacement. BTW, how old is it John?

Hmmmm... I think its about 5 or 6 years old. I think the mistake my dad made was to keep restarting it and running it. Obviously if the motor keeps sputtering and dying abruptly something is very wrong.

[n2ize]

Incidentally, Tecumseh went belly up about 18 mos. ago.

I told my Dad. Now that the snow thrower is out of service expect to see A LOT of snow between now and spring.

[n2ize]

how often was the oil changed? If the LOW oil was thick and dirty due to lack of changing you'll probably have to have the engine rebuilt in a machine shop anyway to regrind the crank shaft. Pull the engine, take off the oil pan & the connecting rod cap & see how bad it is.

then again the piston might be seized in the cylinder.

I wouldn't be surprised if the oil was never changed. My Dad doesn;t belive in preventative maintenance. He simply expects things to just work.

[w2amr]

Incidentally, Tecumseh went belly up about 18 mos. ago.Wow that doesn't seem possible, does it?

[W5GA]

Got it from the guy that does my small engine work. He found out while trying to get parts.

[NQ6U]

Maybe you can get one of those Bell 47 APU motors from Rudy and adapt it.

Does the engine have a centrifugal clutch on it? (Hey, I live in San Diego--a snow blower might as well be an alien artifact) If not, try disconnecting the engine from whatever it is that drives the blower part and see if you can turn it over then. There might be a seized bearing somewhere in the blower. Also, pull the spark plug out--sometimes the carburetor float on small engines will malfunction and fill the cylinder with enough gasoline to hydro-lock the engine.

[W3MIV]

I know where I can get you a good deal on a slightly used APU unit from a Bell helicopter.

[KG4CGC]

Incidentally, Tecumseh went belly up about 18 mos. ago.
Did Toro dump out with them? I have a 4 y/o Toro with a 200cc Tec on the smaller mower.

[kc7jty]

I wouldn't be surprised if the oil was never changed. My Dad doesn;t belive in preventative maintenance. He simply expects things to just work.
Sludge build up and thick dirty oil will do it. Oil flow ports clogged, those engines rely on the oil to splash around freely to lubricate.

[KC2UGV]

I know where I can get you a good deal on a slightly used APU unit from a Bell helicopter.

you beat me to it :)

[NQ6U]

And I beat you both! Scroll up.

[NA4BH]

It's on a compression stroke and either the float for the carb is gone or the gas is bad.

Or it could be seized up.

[WB2WIK]

Pays to use good stuff and maintain it.

When I lived back east where it snowed (thankfully it never snows here) I had a snow blower with a Honda engine and it was like the Energizer bunny. Never failed in 11 years of service.

I did change the oil, though.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

Pull the oil plug and let all of the oil out.
FILL the crankcase with diesel.
Put drain plug back in
Pull the sparkplug and spray WD40 or other in the hole and replace the plug.
Let it sit overnight or more.
Remove sparkplug and try to move crankshaft with wrench.
If it does start spinning do an oil change and crank it a few times and put the sparkplug back in.
Crank some more and it just might start.
Quick fix before you give up, nothing more.

[kc7jty]

Rudy scores with sound advice!

[n2ize]

Thanks for all the suggestions... along with any more that might come along. I am going to try and check the simple things, as well as flushing out the old oil, using the WD-40, checking the carburator float, etc. The idea is to try the simpler and easier solutions first and before I yank the engine and start tearing it down.

[n2ize]

Hello.

Pull the oil plug and let all of the oil out.
FILL the crankcase with diesel.
Put drain plug back in
Pull the sparkplug and spray WD40 or other in the hole and replace the plug.
Let it sit overnight or more.
Remove sparkplug and try to move crankshaft with wrench.
If it does start spinning do an oil change and crank it a few times and put the sparkplug back in.
Crank some more and it just might start.
Quick fix before you give up, nothing more.

Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow.

[w2amr]

Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow. When you drain the oil look for metal shavings.

[w2amr]

Hello.

Pull the oil plug and let all of the oil out.
FILL the crankcase with diesel.
Put drain plug back in
Pull the sparkplug and spray WD40 or other in the hole and replace the plug.
Let it sit overnight or more.
Remove sparkplug and try to move crankshaft with wrench.
If it does start spinning do an oil change and crank it a few times and put the sparkplug back in.
Crank some more and it just might start.
Quick fix before you give up, nothing more.Adding diesel fuel to the crankcase will do nothing but thin out the new oil you put in it. If there is damage to the crank, bearings, piston, all this is just a waste of time. If the engine seized, there is a reason that it happened. And it ain't good.

[W5GA]

If you see shiny metal in the old oil, don't waste your time with the other fixes. Time for a new engine.

Charles, I don't know if Toro went under or not but I wouldn't think so. They would just drill the engine holes in whatever pattern their new supplier used.

[N9FE]

Make shure one of the belts or drive pulleys ain't froze or bound up stopping things.

[W3MIV]

Fer crissakes, go buy a new snowblower and chuck the old junk in the dumpster. MTD ain't worth your time.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

The point behind the diesel is to thin the OLD oil.
Same with the WD40 in the spark plug hole.
The idea is to free up whatever had bound the engine.
If this works there is a very good chance the engine has suffered damage but at least can be run.
And, the diesel is thin, letting it drain out for a while and than filling the crankcase with fresh oil will do no harm if you crank it without starting for a second or two, let it sit for a few seconds and repeat.
Remember that if this fails the engine will simply be replaced so there is no harm in trying and it is very cheap to do.
If the engine runs another month or 2 it will work out well, as at that time snow blowers will go for cheap.
I live in the south and buy snow blowers and snowmobiles for cheap from servicemembers who get sent here.
In fact, my very first "automobile" was a Ford tractor that was configured for plow service, complete with the soft side cab and fold down windshield as well as chains for all 4 wheels.
My biggest expense was the conversion from 8 volts to 12 volts as 8 volt batteries are not that common around here and I needed the lighting to work and replacing all the tires with normal road tires.
That cost more than the tractor itself.
I later got a mower deck and would cut grass on weekends and summertime, just a whole lot more than the average kid. ;)

[N5RLR]

...Tecumseh engine...
There's the problem. No offense to anyone, but Tecumseh engines have a reputation for failure, sometimes catastrophically [such as throwing a connecting rod through a crankcase wall; I've had it happen].

I'd say replace it with a Briggs & Stratton, but they're made in China, now. :irked:

[n2ize]

Fer crissakes, go buy a new snowblower and chuck the old junk in the dumpster. MTD ain't worth your time.

At this time of year, and in a winter of this severity, snow blowers tend to be very expensive and are also not that easy to get. The idea would be to try and get the thing running again to at least bail out the rest of the winter. I also don't want my Dad running out in freezing weather with a shovel.

[W3MPS]

My vote is for scrapping the Tecumseh. I did that with my rototiller a couple years ago. Stupid Tecumseh kept having carb issues. Said motor was replaced with a Li-Fang.

Check out Harbor Freight, they sell Chinese small engines that are licensed copies of Hondas. I've had a few and they run great, plus Honda parts are a direct fit.

This one's 6.5 Hp and should do just fine in that snow blower.
http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engines/65-hp-horizontal-shaft-overhead-valve-gas-engine-66015.html

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

True, a new engine may be the solution, but again, the goal is to get to the summer to buy a good new or used machine on sale.
And yes, the Chinese copy may be good, but it is just that, something built in China.

[n2ize]

My vote is for scrapping the Tecumseh. I did that with my rototiller a couple years ago. Stupid Tecumseh kept having carb issues. Said motor was replaced with a Li-Fang.

Check out Harbor Freight, they sell Chinese small engines that are licensed copies of Hondas. I've had a few and they run great, plus Honda parts are a direct fit.

This one's 6.5 Hp and should do just fine in that snow blower.
http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engines/65-hp-horizontal-shaft-overhead-valve-gas-engine-66015.html

This looks interesting. I'd have to check the dimensions and get an idea if it would fit in without too much difficulty and if I'd be able to set up my pulleys, belts and what nots.

[n2ize]

Hello.

True, a new engine may be the solution, but again, the goal is to get to the summer to buy a good new or used machine on sale.
And yes, the Chinese copy may be good, but it is just that, something built in China.

I've had good luck with a lot of stuff made in China these days. Yes, its true, they do make a lot of ultra cheap junk consumer products but, they also make some very good products.

Also, a lot of stuff that was once made in other countries overseas is now made in China. Case and point, my new Yaesu HT is actually made in China.

[w2amr]

This looks interesting. I'd have to check the dimensions and get an idea if it would fit in without too much difficulty and if I'd be able to set up my pulleys, belts and what nots.That's the issue. Make sure the pullys will fit and the mounting holes for the engine are in the same place.

[W1GUH]

'ize said:

I told my Dad. Now that the snow thrower is out of service expect to see A LOT of snow between now and spring.

So for gopod's sake, prevent that snow by running out for a brandy-new deluxe snow blower! If you don't, we can all blame you for the blizzards that are a-comin'!

[NQ6U]

This one's 6.5 Hp and should do just fine in that snow blower.

Huh, "Not Available in California." Must be a CARB (California Air Resources Board--air pollution control authority) thing but Harbor Freight markets a small generator with a two-stroke engine on it here and that's got to pollute more than the one you linked to. I wonder what the deal is. Maybe they just don't want to bother with the certification process.

[w3bny]

clean oil...new plug...drain old crap gas and go to wally mart and look for something called "Start your engines" it comes in a yellow box/yellow can, smells to beat all gitout and will darn near revive the dead! Engine wise that is. And then go get a bottle of sta-bil and seafoam. Mix it a little on the hot side in the gas can and you should be able to keep that fuel for 2 years.

[w2amr]

clean oil...new plug...drain old crap gas and go to wally mart and look for something called "Start your engines" it comes in a yellow box/yellow can, smells to beat all gitout and will darn near revive the dead! Engine wise that is. And then go get a bottle of sta-bil and seafoam. Mix it a little on the hot side in the gas can and you should be able to keep that fuel for 2 years.That's fine as long as the bottom end isn't cooked because it ran out of earl.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

California, need we say more?

[n2ize]

'ize said:


So for gopod's sake, prevent that snow by running out for a brandy-new deluxe snow blower! If you don't, we can all blame you for the blizzards that are a-comin'!

Well, we're going to have to toughen up and learn to deal with some rough weather. We've been spoiled by all that calm, mild, weather. Now we gotta deal with some rough weather.

[n2ize]

That's the issue. Make sure the pullys will fit and the mounting holes for the engine are in the same place.

I just saw a U-Tube video where I guy fit that very engine onto the exact same snow thrower that I have. He claims the mounting is the same. There are a few issues with the pulleys, he had to order a couple of 3 inch pulleeys from Granger to make the shebang work. I am going to check the dimensions and stuff myself and make a decision. For $129 bucks if it gets the thing going and clearing snow again I'll be happy. Plus it will save me the time of ripping apart the old motor and trying to fix it.

I can also get an exact replacement Tecumseh engine for $230 with 2 year warranty. But Tecumseh is out of business so AFAIK a 2 year warranty from them means absolutely bupkis. And I have heard that Tecumseh's basically suck.So if it fits for $129 I might be getting a better engine.

matter of fact here is the video. That is my exact snow thrower.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRA0NvsEn6w

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

I say go for it if it is indeed that easy.
$129? even a cheap ham like me can go for that, and I still want a Taco!!!!

[W3MPS]

It wasn't too bad installing it on the tiller. Had to do some pulley swappage, but I had a decent assortment to pick from in my junk box.

And yes, Virginia, they even make a CARB approved one for those of you in the People's Republik of Kalifornia. Although I'm a bit puzzled, it specs 91 octane minimum fuel instead of 87 octane for the EPA legal one.

Hmmm, higher compression......... A little finagling with the cam down at the machine shop....... Shave the head...... Zero deck the block........ a 5 gallon can of 100 octane low lead from the flight department at school........

Folks, I think we might have a screamer of a small engine after a little performance tuning. Throw snow real good, or make a hell of a motor for a racing lawnmower.

[NQ6U]

Hello.

California, need we say more?

Yeah--Houston. Worst air quality in the US. That's what we're trying to avoid out here and if it takes giving up a cheesy Chinese engine, it's probably worth ts.

[w6tmi]

At this time of year, and in a winter of this severity, snow blowers tend to be very expensive and are also not that easy to get. The idea would be to try and get the thing running again to at least bail out the rest of the winter. I also don't want my Dad running out in freezing weather with a shovel.


Perhaps you can order a leaf blower from california, and re-purpose it?

Hey, I'm with da other guy! Snow blower.. that's what they have up on Mt Baldy to extend ski season far as I know.

[KG4CGC]

Have you determined if the snow handling part is locked down yet?

[KA5PIU]

Yeah--Houston. Worst air quality in the US. That's what we're trying to avoid out here and if it takes giving up a cheesy Chinese engine, it's probably worth ts.

Hello.

I own a house in Houston but have it rented out due to the poor air quality in Houston.
And it only gets worse.
Pasadena, where the air is greener, is the epicenter of bad air.

[w3bny]

And I have heard that Tecumseh's basically suck.


THIS IS A W3BNY BUNNEH NEWS FLASH...

All small engines suck if you dont change the oil or put stablized/fresh gas in them!


THIS HAS BEEN A W3BNY BUNNEH NEWS FLASH...

[w2amr]

It wasn't too bad installing it on the tiller. Had to do some pulley swappage, but I had a decent assortment to pick from in my junk box.

And yes, Virginia, they even make a CARB approved one for those of you in the People's Republik of Kalifornia. Although I'm a bit puzzled, it specs 91 octane minimum fuel instead of 87 octane for the EPA legal one.

Hmmm, higher compression......... A little finagling with the cam down at the machine shop....... Shave the head...... Zero deck the block........ a 5 gallon can of 100 octane low lead from the flight department at school........

Folks, I think we might have a screamer of a small engine after a little performance tuning. Throw snow real good, or make a hell of a motor for a racing lawnmower.
Did you see this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81y9XSQ9Ru0

[NQ6U]

Did you see this ?

I'm really glad there are people out there doing stuff like that.

[n2ize]

Did you see this ?


George... I think you just solved our snow thrower dilemna. To heck with a replacement one cylinder putt-putt engine. I'm gonna mount a big 8 cylinder Chevy V8 beast on that thing.,

[NQ6U]

George... I think you just solved our snow thrower dilemna. To heck with a replacement one cylinder putt-putt engine. I'm gonna mount a big 8 cylinder beast on that thing.,

Funny thing is, John, you could probably find a used but running V-8 for less than that Chinese one-lunger.

[W1GUH]

I'm giving 10 to 1 odds that said snow-blower will blow no more snow this season, if ever.

[w2amr]

I'm giving 10 to 1 odds that said snow-blower will blow no more snow this season, if ever.I'm giving the same odds for his Globe King ever making it on the air.:lol:

[n2ize]

I'm giving 10 to 1 odds that said snow-blower will blow no more snow this season, if ever.

You lost your bet. The engine is already on order.

[W1GUH]

Not technically. It still has to get to you and installed! ;) Mebbe I shoulda worded it as: "Said snowblower motor will..."

[n2ize]

Not technically. It still has to get to you and installed! ;) Mebbe I shoulda worded it as: "Said snowblower motor will..."

This is not for me. This is for my dad. It's his snow thrower that I'm fixing. He is a tough customer. When he wants something done he gets it. That means that motor will be installed and that thing will be running PRONTO !! And while that is being done rest assured, I'll be fixing or updating his computers as well. My Dad doesn't put up with procrastination or delays. It's gonna get done right away OR ELSE !!

[n2ize]

I'm giving the same odds for his Globe King ever making it on the air.:lol:

George, The Globe King may never make it. I rarely have time to enjoy a nice hot steamy cup o joe. And too many things that take priority. if it gets done anytime soon I;d be amazed.

Actually, to be perfectly honest I did drift out of the hobby and lost interest in it for the past decade or so. I only recently started getting back interested again. So far my recent operations have been virtually all on 2 meter FM. As soon as I can get my antenna up I can get back on HF. Then I want to get the Valiant back. Then I want to buy a modern solid state HF rig. Then maybe I'll tackle the Globe King.

[KA5PIU]

This is not for me. This is for my dad. It's his snow thrower that I'm fixing. He is a tough customer. When he wants something done he gets it. That means that motor will be installed and that thing will be running PRONTO !! And while that is being done rest assured, I'll be fixing or updating his computers as well. My Dad doesn't put up with procrastination or delays. It's gonna get done right away OR ELSE !!

Hello.

So, he does no servicing on the thing whatsoever.
However when it fails he expects instant service?
Sure, go buy a new one, would be my answer.
Failing that, a new snow shovel?

[n2ize]

Hello.

So, he does no servicing on the thing whatsoever.
However when it fails he expects instant service?
Sure, go buy a new one, would be my answer.
Failing that, a new snow shovel?

What can I say ? Life ain't fair. I'm tired and I want to sleep. But I've got some bit fiddling to do yet.

[w2amr]

George, The Globe King may never make it. I rarely have time to enjoy a nice hot steamy cup o joe. And too many things that take priority. if it gets done anytime soon I;d be amazed.

Actually, to be perfectly honest I did drift out of the hobby and lost interest in it for the past decade or so. I only recently started getting back interested again. So far my recent operations have been virtually all on 2 meter FM. As soon as I can get my antenna up I can get back on HF. Then I want to get the Valiant back. Then I want to buy a modern solid state HF rig. Then maybe I'll tackle the Globe King.
I can relate, my interest has fallen off as well. But, I Hope you join us sometime for our Sunday morning 75 meter AM sked. We can be found somewhere between 3800 and 3890 @ 8:30.

[W1GUH]

I can relate, my interest has fallen off as well. But, I Hope you join us sometime for our Sunday morning 75 meter AM sked. We can be found somewhere between 3800 and 3890 @ 8:30.

And "sometime" I'll have decent AM going in the car for the window. It's possible the my TR-7 would be acceptable.

[w2amr]

And "sometime" I'll have decent AM going in the car for the window. It's possible the my TR-7 would be acceptable.You don't know till you try. I get on with WA3YNW and WA3ED.

[W1GUH]

Yea, but somtimes in the window, of you're "yellowy"...well, you know what can happen. Ah, but soon I'll have plate-modulated AM in the car, probably hi-fi!

[w2amr]

Yea, but somtimes in the window, of you're "yellowy"...well, you know what can happen. Ah, but soon I'll have plate-modulated AM in the car, probably hi-fi!
I don't subscribe to that AM window stuff anymore. I find a clear spot somewhere in the general portion of the band and let her rip.

[W1GUH]

I don't subscribe to that AM window stuff anymore. I find a clear spot somewhere in the general portion of the band and let her rip.

Your words are pregnant with meaning. :yes:

[n2ize]

Your words are pregnant with meaning. :yes:

I agree with George. Just fire up on a clear frequency. You have just as much of a legal right to be on there than any slopbucketeer. I used to do it all the time. Find a clear spot, make sure its not in use and I'd light it up.

[n2ize]

Yea, but somtimes in the window, of you're "yellowy"...well, you know what can happen. Ah, but soon I'll have plate-modulated AM in the car, probably hi-fi!

Plate modulated is great but it's not a necessity on AM anymore. You can also run a "rice box" on AM. I hear a few people people running their modern solid state transceivers on AM from time to time and many of them sound quite good.. Properly tuned and adjusted many of them sound quite good on AM. True they don't have the strapping carrier that some of the big plate rigs have, but they still sound excellent, sometimes with a nice clean response And run into an amplifier adjusted to allow adequate headroom they can be quite strapping. Then you have some guys going solid state class E.

Still, it would be great to hear you in there. Don;t worry about sounding a little "yellowy". There's no hard fast law that you have to sound super high fidelity to be accepted on AM.