BestBuy Strikes Again!

[W3WN]

Thanks to BestBuy, I just blew three hours working on a laptop. Long story follows...

So the boss comes home from her church choir's holiday party and tells me a tale of woe about one of the older ladies in the choir. Seems she bought a new laptop from BestBuy, and can't get it to work on NetZero (some of you already know where this is going). GeekSquad, despite promises made to her at time of purchase, have told her that she'll have to pay $$$ for them to look at it.

Now she was supposed to drop it off before choir practice tonight and let me work on it. Practice got cancelled due to weather, so instead, she visited with the boss.

Very nice Lenovo laptop was purchased in August. August! And they strung her along for months trying to get her to pay for service. Add in her getting telephone "help" from her sons in Florida... ugly situation. And I get to step right into the middle of it.

First thing I do is put the laptop on the home network. Found McAfee on it, wouldn't authenticate or verify or whatever the hell it does, ditched it and put Avast! on it. Clean scan. Also installed Office 2010 for her... seems it came with a trial, which expired, and part of their "help" was to sell her a new copy at full retail. Nice.

Now... time to look over the modem to find out why she can't dial into NetZero. Yes, I said modem and dial. She doesn't have Internet access at her home any other way.

Guess yet what the problem is? Yup. No modem. Gee... no WONDER she couldn't dial in. And the GeekSquad was going to charge her in advance to configure something that wasn't there?

She thought she had a modem, see, there's a phone jack on the side! Yeah, only it's an RJ-45 ethernet jack. But the sales schmuck told her... never mind. Clearly she got taken.

Can I give her a modem out of my stash? If only. No serial port. No PCMCIA slot. Only two --TWO -- USB ports. Great.

Quick trip to BB. Different sales schmuck tries to talk us out of a USB modem... "You mean for DIAL UP?" I gave him a dirty look. Told him what happened; he told me that it wasn't possible that BB wouldn't sell a modem or a laptop w/o one to someone on dial-up. Sure. But could he get us a discount on the $49.94 ones that had? You can quit laughing now.

Well, she took off a little while ago. Modem works, she can dial in to get her email... she's been paying NetZero's monthly fee for FOUR MONTHS and no access, lovely. She's happy.

I did try to explain that she can get DSL service from Verizon (she's retired and on a tight budget) for less than she's probably paying NZ. She's thinking about it.

I also asked her if she knew any of her neighbors. The machine has wireless built in (detected my LAN with no problem), so I figure that if she can get permission, she can just piggyback on another LAN in her building. Turns out... she doesn't know a soul amongst the other dozen or so condo owners. Sad.

Makes you really wonder, though, about some of these sales bozos. How can you be told that someone uses dial-up to access their email, and then sell them a laptop without a modem? Or at least make sure she has a modem to go? How can you then not only fail to provide any support promised, but have your people tell her sight unseen that it will cost $$$ to configure a NON EXISTENT modem? How can you do all this... and look in the mirror or sleep at night?

But... all's well. She's set up, the boss is happy, and I've done my good deed for the day. Who needs to work DX anyway?

[KG4CGC]

SELL SELL SELL! Get your numbers and worry about the fallout later because usually they just say, You're Phuct!

[KJ3N]

I also asked her if she knew any of her neighbors. The machine has wireless built in (detected my LAN with no problem), so I figure that if she can get permission, she can just piggyback on another LAN in her building. Turns out... she doesn't know a soul amongst the other dozen or so condo owners. Sad.

I'm willing to bet at least one person in the condo has their wireless completely open. ;)

[N8YX]

I'm willing to bet at least one person in the condo has their wireless completely open. ;)
The access of which could lead to federal felony charges in certain circumstances.

We recently picked up a couple of Gateway desktops for a ham friend at our area BB. Told the kids to stay out of the way and let the adults handle the purchasing. Even though we weren't hassled to any great degree, the next time we need something I think it'll be ordered online.

[KJ3N]

I'm willing to bet at least one person in the condo has their wireless completely open. ;)The access of which could lead to federal felony charges in certain circumstances.

Which I have issues with. If you leave your shit open, you've got no right to complain, IMHO.

About 2 years ago I did an experiment where I set up my laptop in the car to scan for access points and drove to work. I found no less than 15 out of 50-60 wireless routers that had no security enabled at all.

"Stupid is as stupid does, Lt. Dan."

[W3WN]

I'm willing to bet at least one person in the condo has their wireless completely open. ;)

So would I, or a nearby neighbor, but I'd have to venture over there to find out.

That said, I can't ethically advocate piggybacking. She should at least ask. (Just because you leave your front door unlocked doesn't mean that I have your permission to enter your home and rob you blind, after all... if you get my drift)

[W3WN]

< snip >
We recently picked up a couple of Gateway desktops for a ham friend at our area BB. Told the kids to stay out of the way and let the adults handle the purchasing. Even though we weren't hassled to any great degree, the next time we need something I think it'll be ordered online.

Had I been aware of the circumstances at the time of purchase, I would have gladly accompanied this nice lady to BB and made sure she got the right system. Gratis; it's worth it to avoid this very kind of hassle.

I think I can say that almost everyone on the Island would be able to do the same, but we are a heck of a lot more technically savant than the average user, let alone the average BB salesweenie.

[W3WN]

Which I have issues with. If you leave your shit open, you've got no right to complain, IMHO.

About 2 years ago I did an experiment where I set up my laptop in the car to scan for access points and drove to work. I found no less than 15 out of 50-60 wireless routers that had no security enabled at all.

"Stupid is as stupid does, Lt. Dan."
Which doesn't make it right.

I see your point, and for those who know better, I have little sympathy. I'm finding out, though, that at least locally, when Verizon or Comcast... excuse me, Xfinity, what a asinine brand name... techs are hooking people's computers/LAN's to their networks, most or all of the routers/switches in use have wireless access, and that the techs are leaving them enabled by default. With no password protection.

So if someone has an older system w/out WiFi or other wireless access, and doesn't know to say something to the tech, they may have no clue that their LAN is being exposed to the world.

Almost makes you wonder if it's by design -- not of the companies, but of the techs.

[KJ3N]

Which doesn't make it right.

Probably not.


I see your point, and for those who know better, I have little sympathy.

And I have little sympathy for those who don't know better. What's the phrase they'll use on you in court? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"? Well, ignorance of proper security is no excuse, either, IMHO.

How many PCs have you had to disinfect because of ignorance? Do you ever get tired of it? I do. I've also run out of sympathy for those people too. It's plastered all over the 'net and TV that there are nasties out there. Why would you not educate yourself as to the proper steps to take? My answer? You're an idiot.


I'm finding out, though, that at least locally, when Verizon or Comcast... excuse me, Xfinity, what a asinine brand name... techs are hooking people's computers/LAN's to their networks, most or all of the routers/switches in use have wireless access, and that the techs are leaving them enabled by default. With no password protection.

So if someone has an older system w/out WiFi or other wireless access, and doesn't know to say something to the tech, they may have no clue that their LAN is being exposed to the world.

Almost makes you wonder if it's by design -- not of the companies, but of the techs.

Never attribute to malice that which can easily be attributed to stupidity. My experiences in dealing with most installation techs is that they're not terribly bright in the first place.

[n2ize]

There are at least 2 or 3 open networks in my area and on a few occasions my laptop picked up on them and automatically connected to them instead of my secure router. I didn't even realize it until I noticed the connection was unusually slower than normal and I couldn't see other parts of my network.

[WØTKX]

Yea, some of my neighbors do that. I'm invisible, secure, and also control access via the MAC number. If I'm gone for a few days, the PC's and network are turned off. Only the laptop and iPhone use wireless.

Wired is more secure, and I stream music in the house using the wired PC's.

[KC2UGV]

I'll stay off of open networks once they stop invading my space with their RF...

[W3WN]

Probably not.

And I have little sympathy for those who don't know better. What's the phrase they'll use on you in court? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"? Well, ignorance of proper security is no excuse, either, IMHO.

How many PCs have you had to disinfect because of ignorance? Do you ever get tired of it? I do. I've also run out of sympathy for those people too. It's plastered all over the 'net and TV that there are nasties out there. Why would you not educate yourself as to the proper steps to take? My answer? You're an idiot.

Never attribute to malice that which can easily be attributed to stupidity. My experiences in dealing with most installation techs is that they're not terribly bright in the first place.
How many have I cleaned? Too many, way too many. Of course, when I did it freelance for the credit union, that $600 check went a LONG way towards the down payment on the house...

Yes, I agree, many of the techs who ought to know better either don't, or don't care. Or have other mischief in mind.

I learned that one the hard way when we had our DSL upgraded to FiOS. The tech insisted he had to fiddle with my machine, and did me the "favor" of resetting the default name on my email to my wife's name... after all, that was the name on the phone bill. Policy, you know. He seemed more interested in confiscating our DSL filters than verifying everything. (I later found out that he wasn't supposed to do that, as we'd paid for them... and Verizon had no idea that he had doing that.) We also had the backup battery fail after a few days because it hadn't been hooked up properly.

When we had the FiOS router fail here a couple of years ago, I spoke to Support and they agreed to send a replacement over... once I assured them I had a clue. The tech shows up, and insists -- demands -- that my wife let him in the house to install the new router, AND that he has to check all of the LAN wiring AND check all of the software on all of our computers. She calls me... I tell her to not let the guy in, and I call Support back and raise holy hell. And, guess what? They tell me that they have no idea why he insists on examing the PC's etc. That's not standard procedure, and it's allegedly not on the work order. So... 10 minutes later, there's a knock on the door, he hands her the new router and tells her I need to follow the instructions to mail the old one back. Lord knows what he had in mind. (Self-appointed computer police looking for porn?)

Now... as far as knowing better. I'm finding that many people who are closer to retirement, or have retired, have little understanding of how the nutz & boltz work. They just want to turn the PC on and read their email. So the thought of them figuring out that their WiFi was turned on and left open... well, this one got pulled on my father-in-law. The Comcast tech told him point blank that the router didn't have WiFi or any other type of wireless access, so he had nothing to worry about. Of course. So why was the router live and open? Either the tech lied, or the tech didn't know (or care) enough to check. He called Comcast, they implied that I turned it on & didn't know what I was doing... and why did he give me the administrative password to the router [I didn't have it, I just brought over a laptop with a wireless card in it, detected 6 open networks, one of which had his machine on it; not hard to detect, since I named the machine when I set it up!] which only THEY were supposed to have.

I have little sympathy for those who ought to know better and choose not to. But those who are misled or lied to, who simply want to use a tool and rely on those to do their jobs correctly... I have a little more sympathy for them.

[KJ3N]

Yes, I agree, many of the techs who ought to know better either don't, or don't care. Or have other mischief in mind.

I learned that one the hard way when we had our DSL upgraded to FiOS. The tech insisted he had to fiddle with my machine, and did me the "favor" of resetting the default name on my email to my wife's name... after all, that was the name on the phone bill. Policy, you know.


When we had the FiOS router fail here a couple of years ago, I spoke to Support and they agreed to send a replacement over... once I assured them I had a clue. The tech shows up, and insists -- demands -- that my wife let him in the house to install the new router, AND that he has to check all of the LAN wiring AND check all of the software on all of our computers. She calls me... I tell her to not let the guy in, and I call Support back and raise holy hell. And, guess what? They tell me that they have no idea why he insists on examing the PC's etc. That's not standard procedure, and it's allegedly not on the work order. So... 10 minutes later, there's a knock on the door, he hands her the new router and tells her I need to follow the instructions to mail the old one back. Lord knows what he had in mind.

Interesting. Anyone pulling stunts like that will find themselves out the door and I'll start a campaign to have you removed from the company. You don't touch any machine I own, PERIOD.


Now... as far as knowing better. I'm finding that many people who are closer to retirement, or have retired, have little understanding of how the nutz & boltz work. They just want to turn the PC on and read their email. So the thought of them figuring out that their WiFi was turned on and left open... well, this one got pulled on my father-in-law. The Comcast tech told him point blank that the router didn't have WiFi or any other type of wireless access, so he had nothing to worry about. Of course. So why was the router live and open? Either the tech lied, or the tech didn't know (or care) enough to check. He called Comcast, they implied that I turned it on & didn't know what I was doing... and why did he give me the administrative password to the router [I didn't have it, I just brought over a laptop with a wireless card in it, detected 6 open networks, one of which had his machine on it; not hard to detect, since I named the machine when I set it up!] which only THEY were supposed to have.

You lead a pretty exciting life out there. Glad it's not me.

None of that stuff has ever happened to me, but then I've always done the self-install for DSL. When we had the FiOS done, the tech seemed interested in doing as little as possible. He simply asked me to verify that phone, TV, and internet was up. The router had Wi-Fi and security enabled by default. All I did was change the default username and password on the router.


I have little sympathy for those who ought to know better and choose not to. But those who are misled or lied to, who simply want to use a tool and rely on those to do their jobs correctly... I have a little more sympathy for them.

Misled or lied to is one thing. Willful ignorance is another.

[n6hcm]

That said, I can't ethically advocate piggybacking.

not only that, but you don't know who else is connected to that open AP, what they're doing to the network ... or sniffing off it ... so no.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

AT&T gives the consumer several options.
You can walk into a local Wal-mart and buy the entire kit.
You can have them ship it to you.
You can have someone install it, they bring the box.
Self install is easy.
They need to set up the demarcation outside but they never need to come inside, that is your option.
In fact, things like the battery are your problem.
http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/battery-backup.jsp