Suicide - It's not painless...

[W4GPL]

I think we already have a suicide thread, but I wasn't much in the mood to look for it.

I've had 3 friends, two very close 'real life' friends and one extremely brilliant 'online friend' commit suicide since March. And I simply cannot explain how fucking messed up it's making me. Not to be callous or selfish, as I'm not the one who was driven to take his own life, but man.. I'm just.. completely torn up. I'm physically nauseated -- anxious -- just waiting for the next shoe to drop. Who will be next and why? What's more scary is how little I knew about these close friends and their very serious problems. What is with people that they cannot express and work thru their issues with people who love them dearly?

I just don't know where to start to describe the devastation of it all. Their friends, their family, their own lives.. it's unfathomable. I'm not sure if I'm in a unique position to have lost 3 friends in less than a year, but fuck... (that's the best I can do right now).

I know I'm asking questions that are almost cliche, but the emotional pain fucking kills me.

While watching the Auburn/Oregon game last night, I started to cry when Auburn won, because my friend who killed himself in March was the biggest Auburn fan in the world. I think we watched every Auburn/Alabama game together for the last 10 years...

*sigh*-- misery is misery. :P

[KC2UGV]

Yeah, that shit is hard. On family, friends... I've got "3 under my belt" as well. It's tough, but I keep in mind "this too shall pass". Time doesn't heal all wounds, but it does take the pain away, or in the least dulls it.

[N8YX]

By the time I was 21, 6 of my high school graduating class of 400 had killed themselves.

I stopped keeping track after that.

[WØTKX]

A few years after I came back to MN from MT, I lived a a big bachelor house with 3 other guys. Pretty cool place with 4 bedrooms, and two bathrooms. We had frequent weekend parties, and a well stocked bar, etc. Almost nightly backgammon and card games, the cool thing was the bedrooms were way on the other side of the house, and we had a huge 3 season porch at the far side.

One night, a good buddy from high school came by, and we fixed him a drink which he wanted. It hit him hard and fast, and we asked what he was taking, he had a rep for liking "downers" like Ludes. He denied it, but we drove home. He was taking something, he had gotten a hold of some methadone, he was a pharmacy intern. He took some more before he went to bed, and never woke up. I remember him every time I hear Emerson Lake and Palmer, because he loved it, and played their songs very well.

That was an accident? Maybe, he was pretty depressed about breaking up with his high school sweetheart. This is a happy memory now, but it wasn't easy for a while. His big grin wailing on the keyboards helps.

One of the guys I went to the last Floyd Concert in Denver blew his brains out with a shotgun, he had become a meth head after abusing cocaine for years. Much of the Pulse album was recorded in that concert, and I remember him from that album. It was an amazing night, actually a whole weekend.

This is a happy memory now, but it wasn't easy for a while.

My sister (two years younger) attempted suicide three time, the first two were minimal and mostly for attention. The last one almost worked. She has been gravely ill for 15 years, and lately "forgets" to feed herself, and is very very thin. My nephew is pretty upset about it, as you can imagine, we all are.

The son of one of my parents lifetime friends took his own life a year and a half ago, he was estranged from his family because he was gay, and kept "fighting it", He had become a well respected lawyer, and was fairly successful in many other ways,

And so it goes. There are others.

Sad, but we remember, and they are still here, because their soul shard are in those who remember, and miss them. Dwell on the laughter, share the stories, and find joy when and where you can. It's a conscious choice at times, and it's hard, but like working out, those muscles can grow.

[W5RB]

I've got nothing in my experience to compare , except losing a couple of close friends to what you could call "suicidal lifestyles ". I can tell you , based on other experience , that talking to others who've faced stuff like this , in a group setting , can be more theraputic than you'd imagine . Call your local Mental Health Association , I'll bet they have a group . And crying is OK , it's the human thing to do . Hang in there .

[WØTKX]

I cried a lot after Gabby got shot, and I have joy and hope for her recovery.

[W1GUH]

I learned indirectly and years after the fact that two of my closest friends in high school had decided to check-out. They were extremely talented people with great promise, both as musicians (one entered Oberlin) and one as an artist as well. That still really, really haunts me -- nobody had any clue that either had been so unhappy.

Then, to add some macabre humor to this, when I contacted another friend just after the 30th reunion, he told me that I'm not only a "voice from the past" but a "voice from the grave." He'd heard that I, too, had checked out. I assured him that that didn't happen and I'm alive, well, and thriving in NYC. Wish I would have thought of the "greatly exaggerated" quote. I also wonder who spread that lie about me. An ex-wife comes to mind.

I'll never know the "why" for either Lyle or Greg -- may they rest in peace.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

The only thing worse is to have someone murdered.
Due to the very nature of the makeup of San Antonio there is organized crime, and it is big business.
I saw a foreman from San Antonio Public Works get stabbed to death by a former coworker.
I left the employment of the City of San Antonio just a few months prior to help in a federal investigation, getting my former supervisor busted.
All over $30k.
Later, one cop kills another and a key witness ends up in a coma and later dies after eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
And, what started this was a high school age kid who got real heavy into the weed, and got busted.
Being the piece of garbage that he is he tried to finger me.
His big brother was so pissed that he shot and killed his room mate, who was trying to protect me.
This very same bit of crap told the cops I had stolen a tractor.
I was taken downtown and already in juvi when somebody finally follows up and discovers that the tractor was not stolen.
PoS was no longer able to lie to the cops so he says I set him up, and his brother freaks.
After it was all said and done it was explained how the dope was grown on a ranch and transported by San Antonio Police Officers to the distribution point, a Public Works service center that was shared by the police.
2 people were killed over 30 grand that I saw, all before my 18th birthday.
Now THAT is some fucked up shit!
I am still freaked out over it.

[n2ize]

Had an old radio friend back in high school who offed himself around 75 or 76. Few days before he did it we were talking about traveling cross country. He was down on some stuff but seemed optimistic. Then I got news he jumped off a tall structure and that was it. My Mom told me he called me on the phone earlier on the same day he jumped. But I wasn't home. Always wondered if I was there to talk maybe I could have talked him out of it. No cell phones in those days. sad stuff, he must have really been down to do what he did.

Bout 20 years ago I was with some friends and we met a young (in her 30's) drug addicted woman we knew and were friend with and she asked me what would happen if she injected herself with 20 bags of heroin in one shot. We told her it would probably be lethal. She laughed and said nothing more about it. We didn't see her for a while and then we got the bad news that she offed herself with a deliberate drug overdose. Very sad.

Apparently depression in people is not always obvious.

[WØTKX]

Many times a sudden euphoria in a chronically depressed person is a warning sign.

This is because they have made peace with a final solution. For real.

[kc7jty]

Suicide isn't understood by Christian America. It's even against the law here. Would you deny someone, especially a friend or loved one, an escape from chronic torture/pain? Some pain is fleeting, some will wonder why they once contemplated suicide, others will not.

My sister's son hanged himself (40 yrs old, good health) back around April. I was going through a difficult time then as well.
There has to be an understanding that those who take their own lives for whatever reason have the right to do so, and that we, even though we don't fully understand why, must respect, and at least try to take some comfort in the fact they were able to do what they thought was best.

I know there can be no emotion involved at the time, it's simply a matter of making what is deemed the best possible move.

[KØWVM]

I think we already have a suicide thread, but I wasn't much in the mood to look for it.

I've had 3 friends, two very close 'real life' friends and one extremely brilliant 'online friend' commit suicide since March. And I simply cannot explain how fucking messed up it's making me. Not to be callous or selfish, as I'm not the one who was driven to take his own life, but man.. I'm just.. completely torn up. I'm physically nauseated -- anxious -- just waiting for the next shoe to drop. Who will be next and why? What's more scary is how little I knew about these close friends and their very serious problems. What is with people that they cannot express and work thru their issues with people who love them dearly?

I just don't know where to start to describe the devastation of it all. Their friends, their family, their own lives.. it's unfathomable. I'm not sure if I'm in a unique position to have lost 3 friends in less than a year, but fuck... (that's the best I can do right now).

I know I'm asking questions that are almost cliche, but the emotional pain fucking kills me.

While watching the Auburn/Oregon game last night, I started to cry when Auburn won, because my friend who killed himself in March was the biggest Auburn fan in the world. I think we watched every Auburn/Alabama game together for the last 10 years...

*sigh*-- misery is misery. :P

It's inexplicably hard to deal with the loss of a friend or family member that goes down this path. I have had two co-workers do this since spending the last 11 years of my life and Air Force career here in Nebraska. One was when a relationship she was in fell apart. She never recovered from it and was discovered in her apartment moments later after someone called in that they heard a gunshot coming from the apartment. She passed away enroute to the hospital... Another was this young Airman put his M-16 on 3 round burst, stuck the muzzle in his mouth and blew his head off right in front of his supervisor. It was discovered his parents were divorcing and it became a bitter battle over his younger siblings that tore the family apart. His parents admitted he was having a hard time with this but he never showed he was having difficulty with it while at work/off-duty. Not a day goes by that I don't think about them and cannot understand why they chose to do this. We have had countless other attempts/ideations where most cases alcohol was also involved (not saying it was in every one of them). We had another co-worker attempt to do this just over the Christmas/New Year's holiday where he was also picked up for DUI after tracking him down. He is getting help but he is going to need help to get through the other problems that were wrought by these actions and I hope people work with him through this. There are many things in a person's life that causes them to seek this. No hope of what the future might bring.

What was harder than anything is the friends and family of those who did this. It might be over for those who do this, but those they leave behind have to deal with the extreme pain in the aftermath. I am not going to lie, it's hard and it does indeed suck! I hope that those who they were also close with besides yourself can all come together and get through this. I empathize with what you are dealing with and this is not easy one bit to deal with.

[NQ6U]

Suicide isn't understood by Christian America. It's even against the law here.

To the best of my knowledge, suicide is not illegal in any U.S. state, although in some it can effect the disposition of the decedent's estate.

[W5RB]

To the best of my knowledge, suicide is not illegal in any U.S. state, although in some it can effect the disposition of the decedent's estate.

Not to be pedantic , but .... regardless of location , suicide would almost certainly effect the disposition of an estate, and in some , it might also affect it .

[kc7jty]

You look older with them whiskers there brother.

[W5RB]

You look older with them whiskers there brother.

Yep , the other one wasn't intended to deceive , just the best available at the time . This one looks like me .

[VK3ZL]

Let me ask you all....

Have you sometime throughout your life found yourself in what you conceive to be a hopeless situation with no positive solution and been driven mentally to the point of believing your your life is worth nothing and that suicide is the best answer?

This is where many potential suicidal people find themselves...Many can hide their depression and inner thoughts appearing normal to close friends and those around them..It becomes impossible to share their innermost thoughts, often thinking that they will be not be understood which drives them further into themselves until finally they take that fatal step...It becomes even worse for them if they try to seek understanding and strike the wrong person who tries to make them feel the responsibility of the consequences suicide has on their loved ones and community in general..Many suicidal people are aware of all these things and that can be a catalyst to take that last step out of fear and hopelessness...

Most of us are fairly "gung ho" and probably won't experience this personally, we may have a close family member or friend who does take that final step and it will leave you with many unanswered questions of "why".. You may feel anger toward the victim for doing this to you and their friends, others may shrug their shoulders and just put it out of their mind..Not my problem..

We are often reminded to look for any signs if we suspect that something is not quite right with a family member or friend..Unfortunately that often doesn't become apparent or you will suddenly come to a realisation when it is too late...

I have been there and back...It still haunts me every day of my life..I had my life completely turned upside down in 1986 and the following years until 1994 I was in a situation where I wanted to end my life for good....The longer my situation went on the feelings of self worthlessness ate away at my sanity...The cause of this was a result of an accident which left me bedridden and in constant pain, years in and out of hospital and no hope of ever having a normal life...I lost everything that was important and dear to me, marriage, a life's work and all those things we take for granted...

The last straw was my marriage break up...My wife of 32 years just couldn't cope any more...Surprisingly I understood that and felt that she deserved better....After that I had to try and cope on my own...I started to become very angry that life could do this to me...I never once wallowed in self pity..I had constant thoughts of just "doing it"...The time came when the anger forced me to realise that I was bigger and better than what had happened and I resolved that I would fight it and overcome it..You have to be seriously on the brink of taking your own life to understand some of this...I used that anger against everything that had happened, pushed myself back and started to rebuild my life...I am here today and thank that resolve and anger which gave me the strength to begin again...I remarried 10 years ago to a wonderful woman who has given me all I need to make life worthwhile again...Is life easy? Nope but that is still the challenge to never go back there again..

There you are....I have shared one of my most personal secrets with all of you...Some may laugh it off as dramatics and I know some will know what I am trying to explain..Deep down I am still angry but I don't let that bother me any more...

Real friends are few and precious...Cherish them always..

Bob..VK3ZL..

[W5RB]

Back on topic , I hafta figure that the tough part is when someone you know , someone you had lots in common with , and saw regularly , commits suicide . You begin to wonder if the drift toward that mindset was something he was conscious of , or did it sneak up on him ? And if that's the case , and you were a lot alike , could you be next ? And when it's three of 'em , sheesh . It'd make me want to take inventory , and spend an extra moment with family and friends , and ask each of 'em , "How's it goin' , man ? I mean really , how is it going ? "

With the economy in the crapper , and politics making the world feel just plain mean , topped off by short , grey days , we oughta all fight depression actively . Physical activity is a good thing . So is some focus on others . Visit the old lady next door . Shovel her sidewalk . Turn off the pundit channel and go outside . Or get the motorcycle ready for Spring. Yeah , Spring is comin' . Hang in there .

[W5RB]

Bob ,

Thanks , and amen .

[n2ize]

Let me ask you all....

Have you sometime throughout your life found yourself in what you conceive to be a hopeless situation with no positive solution and been driven mentally to the point of believing your your life is worth nothing and that suicide is the best answer?

This is where many potential suicidal people find themselves...Many can hide their depression and inner thoughts appearing normal to close friends and those around them..It becomes impossible to share their innermost thoughts, often thinking that they will be not be understood which drives them further into themselves until finally they take that fatal step...It becomes even worse for them if they try to seek understanding and strike the wrong person who tries to make them feel the responsibility of the consequences suicide has on their loved ones and community in general..Many suicidal people are aware of all these things and that can be a catalyst to take that last step out of fear and hopelessness...

Most of us are fairly "gung ho" and probably won't experience this personally, we may have a close family member or friend who does take that final step and it will leave you with many unanswered questions of "why".. You may feel anger toward the victim for doing this to you and their friends, others may shrug their shoulders and just put it out of their mind..Not my problem..

We are often reminded to look for any signs if we suspect that something is not quite right with a family member or friend..Unfortunately that often doesn't become apparent or you will suddenly come to a realisation when it is too late...

I have been there and back...It still haunts me every day of my life..I had my life completely turned upside down in 1986 and the following years until 1994 I was in a situation where I wanted to end my life for good....The longer my situation went on the feelings of self worthlessness ate away at my sanity...The cause of this was a result of an accident which left me bedridden and in constant pain, years in and out of hospital and no hope of ever having a normal life...I lost everything that was important and dear to me, marriage, a life's work and all those things we take for granted...

The last straw was my marriage break up...My wife of 32 years just couldn't cope any more...Surprisingly I understood that and felt that she deserved better....After that I had to try and cope on my own...I started to become very angry that life could do this to me...I never once wallowed in self pity..I had constant thoughts of just "doing it"...The time came when the anger forced me to realise that I was bigger and better than what had happened and I resolved that I would fight it and overcome it..You have to be seriously on the brink of taking your own life to understand some of this...I used that anger against everything that had happened, pushed myself back and started to rebuild my life...I am here today and thank that resolve and anger which gave me the strength to begin again...I remarried 10 years ago to a wonderful woman who has given me all I need to make life worthwhile again...Is life easy? Nope but that is still the challenge to never go back there again..

There you are....I have shared one of my most personal secrets with all of you...Some may laugh it off as dramatics and I know some will know what I am trying to explain..Deep down I am still angry but I don't let that bother me any more...

Real friends are few and precious...Cherish them always..

Bob..VK3ZL..

Thanks for sharing this and how the sense of hopelessness and despair can lead to a suicidal state of mind. Given such circumstances I would imagine it could happen to any of us, regardless of how much we feel we enjoy life.

[w3bny]

I understand how you feel. And forgive my honesty, it really is a selfish act. Having been on both sides of that fence. I went thru (and still do battle) with some issues and in one deep dark period, did feel like that was a viable option. The only thing that kept me "here" was the thought of the wife coming down into the basement and finding me in whatever state I would have been in. And having had to do an ID on someone who took that option, I couldnt bear to put her or anybody thru that. So I feel for you a lot.

[kc7jty]

Tnx Bob.

[suddenseer]

Bob, no one here would have known. You might have reached someone here now that you have shared. Thank you.

[NA4BH]

I was going to stay out of this topic, but now see a need to post my experiences.

Having seen countless people that have chosen this path, for their own personal reasons..........

I have seen the following:

Those that are crying for the needed attention that they have missed in their lives. They threaten suicide and go through the motions with the end result of getting the help they need.

Those that succeed in their quest. That leave those that really love them to feel guilty, ashamed, and a lifetime of hurt and sorrow.

Those that are sincere in their quest, but fail. These are the people that look up at you, from the bed in the ER, with tears flowing and realize what is going on and find that life is a precious thing and show a little smile when you tell them that WE will make it through this. They realize that this (as stated before) is a selfish act, but now some one actually cares.

A lot of things you block out of your memory (this is one of them).

[ka4dpo]

I think the most difficult thing to do is to recognize the signs especially in someone very close. The other difficulty is the misplaced feeling of guilt because you feel like you should have known somehow and if only you had been more aware you could have stopped this. You could not have stopped it and you did nothing wrong, sometimes people just get trapped and see suicide as the only way out.

[n6hcm]

Apparently depression in people is not always obvious.

even when it's obvious it's not obvious--people aren't willing to believe. so many just don't think depression is a real illness.

and those of us who are clinically depressed are good at masking it.

[kf0rt]

even when it's obvious it's not obvious--people aren't willing to believe. so many just don't think depression is a real illness.

and those of us who are clinically depressed are good at masking it.

Well said.

I've never had a close friend who committed suicide, but have heard of a few. A relative of a good friend of mine took himself out to the curb on trash day and did it right there.

Among those I know really well (well enough to discuss it), there's not a single person who hasn't considered it. It's human nature, but it's also the final deal. It's the last act of desperation.

To my way of thinking, suicide is giving up on a grand scale. Depression plays into this a lot, but is it really an illness? The medical community sure wants to play it that way, but we lie in a pretty complex society these days and suicide is usually tied to the inablilty to cope with external pressures. Drugs can help, but they work on the symptoms. Therapy can help, but the focus is societal compliance.

Right now, I don't know anybody who isn't depressed. A tad of hope gets us by.

[NQ6U]

Right now, I don't know anybody who isn't depressed. A tad of hope gets us by.

Living in modern American society would depress Pollyanna, let alone anyone with even a touch of empathy.