Island Click and Clack

[w2amr]

You make the call:agree:

One of our rental vehicles , an 06 Ford F-150 pick up with a V-6 , came back from long term rental running really bad, with a check engine light on. I scanned the truck and found 3 codes. Multiple cylinder misfires, MAP sensor, and an o2 sensor. Replacing the sensors eliminated the codes, but the engine was still running badly. Removing each plug wire while the engine was running, I located 2 dead cylinders. I then took a compression test of each cylinder, both were 0. I then pulled the valve covers and checked the valve gear for both cylinders. Rockers, push rods, valve springs all looked good. I am fairly certain that now I understand what's going on here. The three questions I have for you backyard mechanics are......
A- What is wrong with this engine?
B- What needs to be done to repair it?
C- Why did it happen?

Sorry Luke, you have to sit this one out. :mrgreen:

[K7SGJ]

What color is it?

[N9FE]

She's whipped george. Sounds like dropped valves, Or shot valve guides.. Just a little blow by ya know.

[KG4CGC]

Check the vin#'s on the engine. It was a swap.

[N8YX]

Check the vin#'s on the engine. It was a swap.
Interesting...

[kb2crk]

no compression on 2 cylinders? not familiar with the newer motors, 4.2 l? the only thing i could think of is bent or burned valves. bent valves could be caused by over revving of the motor and more likely with 2 cylinders down. burned valve could be from a lean condition. so many of the newer motors have variable valve timing it has made things interesting.

[kd8dey]

I then pulled the valve covers and checked the valve gear for both cylinders. Rockers, push rods, valve springs all looked good.
Holes burned through the top of 2 of the cylinders from being too lean?

Exhaust side of piston is melted with a hole burned through top of piston toward exhaust side?

[W2NAP]

its a FORD. and was about to be Found On Road Dead....

[kb2crk]

its a FORD. and was about to be Found On Road Dead....

Fix Or Repair Daily
Fu**ed On Race Day
F*ck*d Over Re-built Dodge
F***ing Owners Really Dumb

[KG4CGC]

It's a rental. There's no telling what the driver(s) did to it. Probably drove it in 1st gear at full throttle just to piss someone off because that was the best his small mind could muster.

[suddenseer]

Are the cylinders next to each other?, I dunno messed up rings from localized heat? I only listen to them cause they play damn good bumper music, AND they're on NPR.

[N2CHX]

Wow. A car that's only four years old that beat up? Someone shouldn't be allowed to drive. I thought I was hard on cars.

[W5GA]

You make the call:agree:

One of our rental vehicles , an 06 Ford F-150 pick up with a V-6 , came back from long term rental running really bad, with a check engine light on. I scanned the truck and found 3 codes. Multiple cylinder misfires, MAP sensor, and an o2 sensor. Replacing the sensors eliminated the codes, but the engine was still running badly. Removing each plug wire while the engine was running, I located 2 dead cylinders. I then took a compression test of each cylinder, both were 0. I then pulled the valve covers and checked the valve gear for both cylinders. Rockers, push rods, valve springs all looked good. I am fairly certain that now I understand what's going on here. The three questions I have for you backyard mechanics are......
A- What is wrong with this engine?
B- What needs to be done to repair it?
C- Why did it happen?

Sorry Luke, you have to sit this one out. :mrgreen:

There's a couple of options:

burned pistons
bent/burned/stuck valves
flat cam

[NA4BH]

Head gasket

[KC9ECI]

Interesting statistic, but over half of all the Fords ever built are still on the road today. The other half surprisingly made it home.

[n4aud]

Head gasket

[N5RLR]

She's whipped george.
There's no telling what the driver(s) did to it. Probably drove it in 1st gear at full throttle just to piss someone off because that was the best his small mind could muster.
Agreed, the renter(s) dogged it figuring it wasn't their problem. Send the bill for the rebuild/replacement to them courtesy of a nice, ball-busting lawyer. :rant:

[KG4CGC]

George, aren't those rentals equipped with some sort of device that stores the history of how it was driven?

[suddenseer]

If your luck is like mine, buy the damn insurance.

[kb2crk]

06 ford should have the data stored in the computer.

[kc7jty]

head gasket on 2 adjacent cylinders.

[w2amr]

A couple of you guys are really close, others not so much. :mrgreen:Unless I miss my guess, Info from the bad sensors told the PCM that the engine was running rich. so the PCM leaned the engine out. The leaner the engine the higher the temperature in the combustion chambers. Things got so hot that it burned the exhaust valves in these two cylinders. When the pistons come up on the compression stroke, the compression is pushed out the space between the burned valves and the seat. This project will be put on the back burner for a bit, until I get caught up with other work. I'll let you know what I find when I take the heads off. BTW, if the engine was over reved, it would throw a code telling me about it. That code wasn't there.

[K7SGJ]

Sounds like a white one.

[w2amr]

Sounds like a white one.

You are good.

[K7SGJ]

Ah, it's nothin.

[w2amr]

head gasket on 2 adjacent cylinders.No indication of that. These things never blow head gaskets any more.

[w2amr]

George, aren't those rentals equipped with some sort of device that stores the history of how it was driven?No, not the trucks Charles. I did put them in all the cars though.

[kb2crk]

no compression on 2 cylinders? not familiar with the newer motors, 4.2 l? the only thing i could think of is bent or burned valves. bent valves could be caused by over revving of the motor and more likely with 2 cylinders down. burned valve could be from a lean condition. so many of the newer motors have variable valve timing it has made things interesting.


A couple of you guys are really close, others not so much. :mrgreen:Unless I miss my guess, Info from the bad sensors told the PCM that the engine was running rich. so the PCM leaned the engine out. The leaner the engine the higher the temperature in the combustion chambers. Things got so hot that it burned the exhaust valves in these two cylinders. When the pistons come up on the compression stroke, the compression is pushed out the space between the burned valves and the seat. This project will be put on the back burner for a bit, until I get caught up with other work. I'll let you know what I find when I take the heads off. BTW, if the engine was over reved, it would throw a code telling me about it. That code wasn't there.

i had it as my second choice. the over rev did not sit well with me as the truck should have an electronic rev limiter. i found it odd that two valves burned due to a lean. i am surprised it ran at all running that lean.

[KG4CGC]

Yeah, it was a shot in the dark.

[w2amr]

i had it as my second choice. the over rev did not sit well with me as the truck should have an electronic rev limiter. i found it odd that two valves burned due to a lean. i am surprised it ran at all running that lean.I had something similar to this years ago. We had four 1989 E-350 box vans with 351 fuel injected Windsor engines. Ford ran the engines lean to keep the combustion temps high to help emissions. Everything was fine until you developed a leak from a broken or disconnected vacuum line, and they had plenty of vacuum lines back then. This would lean the engine even more and burn the exhaust valves. I had to pull the heads on 3 of the 4 trucks to have valve jobs done for that reason.

[kb2crk]

I had something similar to this years ago. We had four 1989 E-350 box vans with 351 fuel injected Windsor engines. Ford ran the engines lean to keep the combustion temps high to help emissions. Everything was fine until you developed a leak from a broken or disconnected vacuum line, and they had plenty of vacuum lines back then. This would lean the engine even more and burn the exhaust valves. I had to pull the heads on 3 of the 4 trucks to have valve jobs done for that reason.

i do remember replacing many an egr line on the 302/351w to prevent those very issues when i was working as a mechanic in the 90's. you are right, way to many places for a leak that could cause a lean condition...

[kc7jty]

if 2 valves are burnt more are probably damaged

[N7RJD]

Head gasket

When the first part is done properly I've been known to blow a gasket too.

[N7RJD]

Ok, long shot but with some of the Ford engines they are made to shut down cylinders when the engine overheats
using the airflow from the cut cylinders to help cool the engine. I don't know details, just info I remember from the
owner's manual, discovered while looking for the one tid bit they don't bother to include....Wiper blade sizes.

As for how to fix it...take it to George, he'll fix it, he fixes anything.

[w2amr]

if 2 valves are burnt more are probably damaged
That's what I'm thinking.

[w2amr]

Ok, long shot but with some of the Ford engines they are made to shut down cylinders when the engine overheats
using the airflow from the cut cylinders to help cool the engine. I don't know details, just info I remember from the
owner's manual, discovered while looking for the one tid bit they don't bother to include....Wiper blade sizes.


The (limp home mode) can happen when the coolant overheats. Excessive combustion temperature does not necessarly mean excessive temps in the cooling system.



"As for how to fix it...take it to George, he'll fix it, he fixes anything"

Not true, we have an 02 F-150 with a code for a problem with the camshaft positioning sensor. I tried everything to fix it. We finally had to send it to the dealer.:oops:

[W5GA]

Don't you just love that the factories don't release all of their electronic info?

[w2amr]

Don't you just love that the factories don't release all of their electronic info?To be honest Doug, I'm using an old Snap On brick which isn't exactly state of the art.

[W5GA]

To be honest Doug, I'm using an old Snap On brick which isn't exactly state of the art.
With what Snap On charges for a new one + update subscription I certainly don't blame you, George!

[kb2crk]

i used to have one of those bricks. back in the 90's they were great. i dont know about them anymore as i stopped working on cars as a profession in 2000. i do have a 60 dollar code reader for the late models now and it was worth every penny.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

Saturday night the 1994 Geo Metro stopped running.
Just a sort of ping, and no power.
Since it was in drive I could hear the the engine was turning and the alternator was still working.
Get it fully off the roadway and hit the starter, no compression.
Damn timing belt broke, no warning.
Water pump is real tight and might have caused this.
Is it even worth trying to repair?
My best guess is yes, but it is quite old so parts are going to be hard to find.
The Suzuki Swift is a near mate to this thing.

[W5GA]

Get it a new APU all will be well.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

It has a 3 cylinder gasoline engine, about the size of the 3 cylinder diesel engines in the ground power units. ;)

[w2amr]

Hello.

Saturday night the 1994 Geo Metro stopped running.
Just a sort of ping, and no power.
Since it was in drive I could hear the the engine was turning and the alternator was still working.
Get it fully off the roadway and hit the starter, no compression.
Damn timing belt broke, no warning.
Water pump is real tight and might have caused this.
Is it even worth trying to repair?

Why not? You can get a new belt and tensioner for around $36 here.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQGeoQQMetroQQContiTechQQTiming_Belt_KitQQ1994QQW0 133-1831102.html?apwcid=P1135867996W43b3f85c7ab9e&apwidXSNhy17

[NQ6U]

Why not? You can get a new belt and tensioner for around $36 here.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQGeoQQMetroQQContiTechQQTiming_Belt_KitQQ1994QQW0 133-1831102.html?apwcid=P1135867996W43b3f85c7ab9e&apwidXSNhy17

Rudy, you should be able to fix it with a combination of belts from your Bell 47 and old Motorola radio parts.

[w2amr]

I finally got the time to pull the left side head. I put it on the bench upside down, and filled the combustion chambers with water. In several seconds I spotted water running out the exhaust port of the dead cylinder. That is where the compression is going.:agree:

[KG4CGC]

So would the first reply to this thread have answered the question? What's his prize?

[w2amr]

So would the first reply to this thread have answered the question? What's his prize?Nothing , it a was wrong answer. That was Mark and he guessed valve guides. Paul gets closest to the pin.:bowdown:

[KG4CGC]

Nothing , it a was wrong answer. That was Mark and he guessed valve guides. Paul gets closest to the pin.:bowdown:
Would that be called by the judges, a leaner?

[w2amr]

Would that be called by the judges, a leaner?
That wins him a free one year subscription to NPR!:clap:

[N4VGB]

That wins him a free one year subscription to NPR!:clap:

NPR is a "paid subscription", you pay whether you use it or not.:yes:

[KG4CGC]

That wins him a free one year subscription to NPR!:clap:
You're too generous!

[w2amr]

You're too generous!Thank you, it took years of practice.

[Chris]

my money is on some wigger used the truck to do some of that faster and furiouser stuff and used nitric oxy on that engine and blew it to smithereens

after all, its a rental