New laptop from ASUS...

[W3MIV]

Just bit the damned bullet and ordered a new laptop to replace one that has grown too old and slow. (Hope my xyl doesn't get that idea 'bout me! ;) ).

ASUS G73JW-XT1; Intel i7 740QM; 8GB DDR3 RAM; Winnders 7 P64; 500GB drive (7.2krpm). nVidia 460 w/ 1.5GB DDR5 vid mem and 17.3" HD screen (1080).

Seems to have good performance specs, and ASUS gives a two-year warranty, with damage coverage for the first year.

It's a behemoth -- 8 pounds on the hoof -- but I don't really use a laptop to travel very often. Want to have good graphics power to handle photo-illustration and PhotoShop-type operations. Not sure yet whether I want to upgrade PS or try to work with The Gimp. May add Lightroom, but I am still looking at that; since Adobe now lets one try it out for free, I will make the decision after the new computer arrives.

Anybody out dere got any 'sperience with ASUS hardware?

[K7SGJ]

Yep. My kid has had several. From desktops, to motherboards, to laptops. Now has a 16 or 17 inch laptop plus one of their netbooks. They have all performed perfectly. Only his big laptop suffered a problem when it fell off a table, and hit on a card in the expansion port. I managed to replace a few parts that got cooked since the express card socket got mangled and shorted. After replacing the socket and the fried components, it once again is working flawlessly. I am still amazed the PC board wasn't damaged. I just bought one of their netbooks and love it. The battery lasts a long long time, and it is perfect for moving around the house, coffee shop, or where ever you need to go. It has everything you need in a sub compact, and nothing more. I also have a Toshiba 17 inch laptop I have had for a year or so. It's nice too, but not very portable. But then they put handles on VWs and called them portable. Hope you have as good of luck with ASUS as we have had.

[KC2UGV]

I've had two notebooks from ASUS. Top notch hardware. Don't lose your driver disks however. Should the need arise to grab them from their site, you'll quickly find out their site is slow, and 4/10 times does not respond... Navigation and downloading is a nightmare.

So, hardware-wise excellent.

[K7SGJ]

We haven't gotten disks from a vendor in ages. It seems they put the recovery in a hidden file somewhere on the hard drive. Which I always thought was FU especially if the drive croaks. However, there is usually a utility to extract that info on to CD. I know their netbook, my Toshiba, and a bunch of IBMs I got for my wifes business were all that way. The times, they are a gettin cheaper.

[NQ6U]

Just saw a ranking of laptops by quality and user satisfaction. Asus was right up at the top among Windows machines and second overall after Apple.

[W3MIV]

Thanks for the input. The first thing all of the mfrs tell you now as soon as you start up a new 'puter is to label and insert a series of DVDs to offload the system backup files in case of 'mergency reinstallation of the OS or software. The backup is installed in a separate partition. With some mfrs, you can buy a backup on DVD when you buy the system (at extra cost, of course -- IIRC HP charges $19 for the disks). I am used to that.

My only nervousness comes from the sixty-four-bit OS. Seems that just about every winnders 7 offering I have come across in my search for a replacement computer has been 64-bit. Hope I don't have any software issues as a result of this. My computer skills being what they are -- Billhelm and I share a canoe in that regard ;) -- I am unsure of what programs I may want or need may balk at that. I am sure I will find out.

[N2CHX]

Make at least two copies of your system recovery disks. Been bit more than once on recovery disks that had errors when trying to recover the system. Kinda defeats the purpose.

[W1GUH]

I've had an ASUS laptop for about a year and a half and it's been very good, no problems, and one quirk. Don't know if it's unique to my model or not, but it's good to know the fix if it happens to you. Once in a great while (doesn't happen often), when it's booting-up, the process will get hung-up on NVRAMCK. (Might have spelled that wrong). If that happens, the fix is easy. Unplug the power supply and take out the battery. That'll reset what ever bit(s) got corrupted and you're good to go.

I got mine with 64-bit Vista and that has been 100% trouble-free. There's been no problem whatsoever with software compatibility.

On that machine I do Ubunto with GRUB on a DVD and Linux installed on a USB drive.

[KC2UGV]

I've had an ASUS laptop for about a year and a half and it's been very good, no problems, and one quirk. Don't know if it's unique to my model or not, but it's good to know the fix if it happens to you. Once in a great while (doesn't happen often), when it's booting-up, the process will get hung-up on NVRAMCK. (Might have spelled that wrong). If that happens, the fix is easy. Unplug the power supply and take out the battery. That'll reset what ever bit(s) got corrupted and you're good to go.

I got mine with 64-bit Vista and that has been 100% trouble-free. There's been no problem whatsoever with software compatibility.

On that machine I do Ubunto with GRUB on a DVD and Linux installed on a USB drive.

You might need to replaced your battery on the motherboard. Or, a reflash of the BIOS is in order. It should never lock up at the NVRAMCHK.

[W1GUH]

You might need to replaced your battery on the motherboard. Or, a reflash of the BIOS is in order. It should never lock up at the NVRAMCHK.

No....when it happened I looked up on the web and this is a "normal" quirk in some machines.

[KC2UGV]

No....when it happened I looked up on the web and this is a "normal" quirk in some machines.

Blech... Seriously. But, if it doesn't kill it...

[ab1ga]

My only nervousness comes from the sixty-four-bit OS. Seems that just about every winnders 7 offering I have come across in my search for a replacement computer has been 64-bit. Hope I don't have any software issues as a result of this. My computer skills being what they are -- Billhelm and I share a canoe in that regard ;) -- I am unsure of what programs I may want or need may balk at that. I am sure I will find out.

I recently bought a 64-bit desktop and the only problem I've had with compatibility is old peripherals. My ancient yet serviceable HP OfficeJet scanner/copier/printer/fax had a management program which according to HP will NOT be migrated to Windows 7 64-bit. Not that I care much; the functions I use can all be launched from the front panel.

[kf0rt]

The 64 bit stuff is pure marketing genius. It's like megapixels in digital photography or Sarah Palin in GOP politics.

[NQ6U]

The 64 bit stuff is pure marketing genius. It's like megapixels in digital photography or Sarah Palin in GOP politics.

Yeah--all it means is that you can access more than 4GB of RAM. No doubt that will come in handy for many people but it's not like it's some startling innovation or anything.

[W3MIV]

All of the systems I have been running are 32-bit. All have 4GB, of which Winnders seems capable of addressing about 3 1/2GB or so. I have had no problems with this amount of RAM.

I did not seek out the 64-bit systems, but it seems that everyone out there is pushing 6 or 8GB of RAM in just about everything above absolute bottom-line systems. The only way 64-bit became an issue for me is the faint worry about software compatibility. The graphics system (geforce 460 w/ 1.5GB vRAM) and the full HD screen were bigger sales closers for me.

An amusing note: This laptop has a THX certified sound system. It has a tiny "subwoofer" on the bottom. Is Lucas really serious about this? In a laptop?

[NQ6U]

An amusing note: This laptop has a THX certified sound system. It has a tiny "subwoofer" on the bottom. Is Lucas really serious about this? In a laptop?

THX is a joke, at least when it comes to consumer equipment. Take, for instance, the Pioneer home theater receiver that someone gave me. It's nowhere near as capable as my Denon AVR-2807, yet it cost just as much because it's been blessed by George Lucas et al. In fact, it's such a POS that the former owner gave up on getting it do do what he wanted, hence the gift. I've been thinking about selling it on eBay in hopes of finding some sucker.

[kf0rt]

Yeah--all it means is that you can access more than 4GB of RAM. No doubt that will come in handy for many people but it's not like it's some startling innovation or anything.

Instead of page swapping, they went for profit. I absolutely guarantee you can break the 4GB barrier on a 32-bit CPU and do it quickly. The downside to the 64-bit stuff is that there's not much 64-bit software available and it's a kludge to get 32-bit stuff to run on a 64-bit platform. In addition, most apps probably just run better in a 32 bit world. 64 bits has some great scientific advantages, but few of us need that. Fetching an 8-bit value on a 64-bit bus is a waste.

I wonder if the games aren't driving this....?

[kf0rt]

An amusing note: This laptop has a THX certified sound system. It has a tiny "subwoofer" on the bottom. Is Lucas really serious about this? In a laptop?

That's hilarious. More marketing genius. I guess Lucas has become a whore? Been dabbling in surround sound for a few years now, and can tell ya that the "suckas are out there." In spades.

Might I sell you some Bose?

[WØTKX]

:rofl: + Mayo.

Bose did make a few decent speakers back in the day. Hint: The 901's are not a favorite of mine.

And those Lifestyle Systems. Pfft.

[n6hcm]

We haven't gotten disks from a vendor in ages. It seems they put the recovery in a hidden file somewhere on the hard drive.

well, you're *supposed* to burn that to a cd or dvd ... but yes, lame that they can't put a $0.10 bit of optical media in the kit.

[W3MIV]

Instead of page swapping, they went for profit. I absolutely guarantee you can break the 4GB barrier on a 32-bit CPU and do it quickly. The downside to the 64-bit stuff is that there's not much 64-bit software available and it's a kludge to get 32-bit stuff to run on a 64-bit platform. In addition, most apps probably just run better in a 32 bit world. 64 bits has some great scientific advantages, but few of us need that. Fetching an 8-bit value on a 64-bit bus is a waste.

I wonder if the games aren't driving this....?

That need to "kludge" is my worry. Guess I'll find out if I have any software troubles. Right now, I still have not received a confirmation of shipping, though I did receive a confirmation of the order. They usually ship the same day as the order is received; in fact, they state that as a boast on the site. I may be a victim of Wikileaks?

I am sure that games are driving this, especially so with ASUS since this computer is specifically set up for gaming, though that is not my goal. But it goes farther -- HP, Dell and other "leaders" are also pushing everything with 64-bit systems now.


well, you're *supposed* to burn that to a cd or dvd ... but yes, lame that they can't put a $0.10 bit of optical media in the kit.

Most charge extra for the backup DVD if you want to order it. As I recall, HP charges about $19. The drive still is partitioned and includes a full restoration system accessible at boot. On the laptop I am replacing, that partition is 12GB.

[KC2UGV]

Instead of page swapping, they went for profit. I absolutely guarantee you can break the 4GB barrier on a 32-bit CPU and do it quickly. The downside to the 64-bit stuff is that there's not much 64-bit software available and it's a kludge to get 32-bit stuff to run on a 64-bit platform. In addition, most apps probably just run better in a 32 bit world. 64 bits has some great scientific advantages, but few of us need that. Fetching an 8-bit value on a 64-bit bus is a waste.

I wonder if the games aren't driving this....?

You can not break the 4 GB barrier with a 32 bit OS. There is not enough bits to address any more memory. And, for Linux, there are plenty of 64 bit apps :)

Not to mention the other advantages, such as a larger inbuilt command set, which equates to more computations per cycle, which in turn leads to a jump in speed for all applications.

[kf0rt]

You can not break the 4 GB barrier with a 32 bit OS. There is not enough bits to address any more memory. And, for Linux, there are plenty of 64 bit apps :)

Not to mention the other advantages, such as a larger inbuilt command set, which equates to more computations per cycle, which in turn leads to a jump in speed for all applications.

Ever run 128K of code on a Z80 with a 16 bit address bus? I have. ;) That 4GB barrier is more marketing than tech. Methods around the address bus limits predate both Windows and Linux.

[KC2UGV]

Ever run 128K of code on a Z80 with a 16 bit address bus? I have. ;) That 4GB barrier is more marketing than tech. Methods around the address bus limits predate both Windows and Linux.

Pray tell, how would you do it?

A 16 bit address bus will happily fill 128K. In fact, it will happily handle up to 256MB (Or 512MB, I forget). In fact, an 8 bit machine will happily address 256K of memory. With some magic (Physical switching which is CPU controlled, and using half of the on-board 128K to address memory) and 8 bit machine will address up to 1MB.

[W1GUH]

'MIV said:

That need to "kludge" is my worry. Guess I'll find out if I have any software troubles.

You'll probably be OK, unless Windows 7 sucks. I've had no such hassles with Vist 64.

I better check the "backup" disk that came with my Asus. When I first got the computer, I saw the backup disk in the box and only looked at it quickly. But a couple of weeks later I bought the identical machine for a friend and that time the salesperson (Best Buy) asked me if I wanted to buy the backup disk. Wonder who's assumption was correct....mine for thinking the disk I've got is a real system restore disk, or the sales person, for maybe knowing that what I have isn't really?

Hope I don't find out the hard way!

[edit]

When I got that nvramck "quirk", I put inquiries out on the 'web about Asus' hardware reliability, and got back glowing reports of very reliable hardware!

[W3MIV]

Just read a couple of articles on Gizmodo about 64-bit ops. Also been checking into those apps I use most. Feel a bit better about it all now.

[kf0rt]

Pray tell, how would you do it?

A 16 bit address bus will happily fill 128K. In fact, it will happily handle up to 256MB (Or 512MB, I forget). In fact, an 8 bit machine will happily address 256K of memory. With some magic (Physical switching which is CPU controlled, and using half of the on-board 128K to address memory) and 8 bit machine will address up to 1MB.

2^16 is 64K, so you're limited to 65,536 unique addresses with a 16-bit address bus. We used physical page swapping to break that barrier years ago and even wrote an assembler that supported the page swapping automatically.

Careful of your terminology. When you say 8-bit, are you talking about addressability, or the ALU? A lot of 8-bit ALU's had 16-bit addressing (Z80 was a good example). The earlier Intel PC stuff (8088, etc.) had 16-bit ALU's and a 20-bit address bus (2^20 is where the 1MB of RAM comes from).

So, if you can "happily" handle 256K on a 16-bit address bus, why would a 32-bit bus be limited to 4 Gig?

[KC2UGV]

2^16 is 64K, so you're limited to 65,536 unique addresses with a 16-bit address bus. We used physical page swapping to break that barrier years ago and even wrote an assembler that supported the page swapping automatically.

Careful of your terminology. When you say 8-bit, are you talking about addressability, or the ALU? A lot of 8-bit ALU's had 16-bit addressing (Z80 was a good example). The earlier Intel PC stuff (8088, etc.) had 16-bit ALU's and a 20-bit address bus (2^20 is where the 1MB of RAM comes from).

So, if you can "happily" handle 256K on a 16-bit address bus, why would a 32-bit bus be limited to 4 Gig?

A 32 bit CPU can not address memory values larger than 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 (4294967295, ie 4GB). When you have PTR instructions for page two, how do you address it? Do you expand again? This is 64 bit processing, and to do page swapping (Physical) you would need another 400 or so MB to hold the address space.

Memory management has changed a bit since the Z80, 6809E days, where a simple bit to swap between to physical RAM banks could be achieved. The entire memory must be mapped now, and have a valid map to lookup process space.

How would the BIOS know to address a memory location in bank 2? It can't. Many of your BIOS calls will fail, when attempting to JMP to processor to an instruction in some other bank. You just run out of addressing bits.

[kf0rt]

A 32 bit CPU can not address memory values larger than 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 (4294967295, ie 4GB). When you have PTR instructions for page two, how do you address it? Do you expand again? This is 64 bit processing, and to do page swapping (Physical) you would need another 400 or so MB to hold the address space.

Memory management has changed a bit since the Z80, 6809E days, where a simple bit to swap between to physical RAM banks could be achieved. The entire memory must be mapped now, and have a valid map to lookup process space.

How would the BIOS know to address a memory location in bank 2? It can't. Many of your BIOS calls will fail, when attempting to JMP to processor to an instruction in some other bank. You just run out of addressing bits.

A CPU with a 16-bit address cannot address memory above 11111111 11111111 (65536, or 64K). Yet you can address more than 64K of physical memory by bank swapping. In essance, you might take the upper 1GB of address space and fill it with 16 1GB memory sections that are selectable and switch the one you need in when you need it.

Yes, you would have to design for it in the software architecture for the machine, but it's not only possible, it's not that difficult. PC and Windows, probably not, but my only point is that the 4GB limit is really a limit of the overall system architecture and not a limit of the 32-bit world. There is nothing about the 32-bit (or 64-bit) world that precludes using the same mechanisms that were more common in the 16-bit world. Does Windows or Linux support an industry standard for this? No, but that's because Linux runs on PCs and Microsoft isn't interested in putting 64 Gig on a 32-bit CPU.

Anyway, here's how we did it, and I always thought it was cool.

Declare a function in overlay space (it's going to reside in a bank). When referenced in code, the assembler/compiler codes it as:
Software interrupt
Bank number
Address

A bank-aware linker sorts out the actual numbers. When the code is hit, the CPU vectors to an un-banked ISR with the stack pointer pointing to the bank number and address. The ISR physically pages in the proper bank and executes the jump. Banked returns are handled in a similar fashion -- just a software interrupt to another un-banked handler that sends execution back to the instruction after the address in the above example. With this scheme, you can call a function in one bank from a function in a different bank.

I mean yeah... there's a little CPU overhead involved, and it helps to have tools that are aware, but the "modern" hardware is capable.

[W3MIV]

Well, it's here. It's fast. Graphics/Aero score of 7.1. Also heavy as hell -- eight pounds. Teeny batt'ry -- probably won't go more than an hour on the 5.2AH available. Power supply is a real brick; 7.2A @ 19v. Too damned big to be portable beyond being easier to move from here to there than a desktop. Love the1080 HD screen and the full-size keyboard with separate number pad.

Amazingly quiet for two fans. Loaded with crapware, of course, including Times Reader and MS Office 2010 bait. Surprised me with those two, now deleted. Took a while to burn five DVDs for the backup/restore system. FF and T'bird up and running; OpenOffice 3.3 installed.

[KC2UGV]

A CPU with a 16-bit address cannot address memory above 11111111 11111111 (65536, or 64K). Yet you can address more than 64K of physical memory by bank swapping. In essance, you might take the upper 1GB of address space and fill it with 16 1GB memory sections that are selectable and switch the one you need in when you need it.

Yes, you would have to design for it in the software architecture for the machine, but it's not only possible, it's not that difficult. PC and Windows, probably not, but my only point is that the 4GB limit is really a limit of the overall system architecture and not a limit of the 32-bit world. There is nothing about the 32-bit (or 64-bit) world that precludes using the same mechanisms that were more common in the 16-bit world. Does Windows or Linux support an industry standard for this? No, but that's because Linux runs on PCs and Microsoft isn't interested in putting 64 Gig on a 32-bit CPU.

Anyway, here's how we did it, and I always thought it was cool.

Declare a function in overlay space (it's going to reside in a bank). When referenced in code, the assembler/compiler codes it as:
Software interrupt
Bank number
Address

A bank-aware linker sorts out the actual numbers. When the code is hit, the CPU vectors to an un-banked ISR with the stack pointer pointing to the bank number and address. The ISR physically pages in the proper bank and executes the jump. Banked returns are handled in a similar fashion -- just a software interrupt to another un-banked handler that sends execution back to the instruction after the address in the above example. With this scheme, you can call a function in one bank from a function in a different bank.

I mean yeah... there's a little CPU overhead involved, and it helps to have tools that are aware, but the "modern" hardware is capable.

How do you address the banks? When addressing the memory, you've already used 32 bits. So, where does the 33rd bit come from?

[kf0rt]

How do you address the banks? When addressing the memory, you've already used 32 bits. So, where does the 33rd bit come from?

In our scheme, we used a simple I/O port to switch banks. An 8-bit port could be used to select up to 256 banks of memory.

Of course, this could be a challenge with a multiple core CPU...

[KC2UGV]

In our scheme, we used a simple I/O port to switch banks. An 8-bit port could be used to select up to 256 banks of memory.

Of course, this could be a challenge with a multiple core CPU...

... and multi-threaded processing...

[W1GUH]

If you're into the ins and outs of virtual memory mapping here's a way to have some fun. Get you hands on a VAX/VMS architure manual and get into THAT virtual memory mapping scheme. Then after you master that, you can play with caching and look ahead buffers and n-way associated caching!