My grandfather was adopted

[kc7jty]

Got word from my sister that our cousin told her our maternal grandfather was adopted. (my sister believes it to be "legit" info)
I feel empty and lost. Why people lie to their family is something I don't understand. My mother had a brother who shot himself to end it all, but she always said it was an accident while cleaning his gun.
My father dispelled that myth once quite convincingly.

My mother must have known about her father being adopted, she was quite close to her sister who was the mother of the informing cousin.
All the tales from her of us being German/French (her mother was pure blood Irish, born over there) with a possibility of Jew blood (the name was Keim) are out the window now.

I've never told my kids any tales I knew to be untrue....
Damn! I might be English or something, I'm not gonna get any sleep tonight.

[KG4CGC]

Eureka!
You're Greek-ish.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

I suspected that I was adopted when I was told.
The guy who I really liked was indeed my Grandfather.
With this discovery I went to visit my real relatives and love the way things worked out.
What I am saying is this, you may find that you like your real relatives even more.

[kc7jty]

Hello.

I suspected that I was adopted when I was told.
The guy who I really liked was indeed my Grandfather.
With this discovery I went to visit my real relatives and love the way things worked out.
What I am saying is this, you may find that you like your real relatives even more.

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/creator.JPG

[W3WN]

"Jew blood" ????

[KC2UGV]

"Jew blood" ????

Yeah, Like "Irish Blood"...

[W3MIV]

What difference does any of it make? Are we specimens in a kennel club?

My mother was very Irish, though born here; her father was the import from the auld sod. My father was a Jew who did not acknowledge it (neither did his Jewish mother nor did his Bohemian/German/Nazi father -- someone to whom I wish I had found I was NOT related). I am neither a Jew nor an Irishman -- a fact for which both are probably grateful. The only question I have about my genes is what potential health effects I may have inherited, either from them, or merely through them from some utterly unknown and unknowable hirsute bobble along some evolutionary back road.

Other than occasionally howling at the full moon, and throwing my back out when I try to lick my ass, I don't suspect there are too many genetic predispositions or unknown ancestors I need concern myself about. Of course, YMMV.

[w3bny]

Eureka!
You're Greek-ish.

You could be from the isle of Lesbos :yum::wiggle:

[WØTKX]

Well, my family background is murky on the maternal side. There is strong evidence that the family immigrated to Chugwater Wyoming, to escape the Russion Pogroms of the late 1800's in Poland. And became "Catholic" as a cover story. My Grandfather was very angry when my sister found clues in the immigration record, and immediately went on a tirade about not being Jewish. The homestead in Chugwater WY was quite harsh... Grandpa started running away to the army at about 12, they eventually kept him. He never talked about it much... he said that he had eight brothers and sisters, and only six survived. Some got sick, but he said that they went hungry a lot, and might have starved.

To him, the Army was a rescue... still tough, but fair. But I always wondered about how growing up like that would mess with a person. Grandpa could be a softie at times, but he was mostly stoic, and frequently very angry and mean. He was a sniper and sharpshooter for a long time... I think that messed with him, as well as jungle duty in Burma. Grandma could always mellow him out, but usually that required the nudge of a stiff cocktail. There was a very strong streak of conditional love, and fear. He did that with his twin daughters, one's my mom.

Dad's family life was pretty harsh too, another overbearing Grandfather. My paternal Grandmother wouldn't put up with his crap, and sought solace in devout Catholicism. Not much love and joy there, Grandpa died when I was quite young, but I witnessed harsh and odd moments, without understanding them then.

This creates psychological tweaks in the kids, more valid than "blood" or "race". It it is passed on, as surely as genetic material. Whatever the care situation is, unconditional love with gentle teaching works best. Making a competition out of favor is not good, encouragement and patience is. Nurturing the joy of creativity is the most important, because people tend to "find themselves" in endeavors that are both intellectual, and from the heart. Smiles and laughter.

Why is it that methods for rehabilitating the mental state of rescue animals is understood, but throwing another human under the bus is celebrated?

[KA5PIU]

What difference does any of it make? Are we specimens in a kennel club?

.

Hello.

The "Mother" made it clear that she did not want me to have contact with "Her" relatives.
The "Father" was a returning Vietnam era junkie.
So it was not so much who the real relatives were as that these are not my relatives.
But once I discovered my relatives I became very happy!

[W3MIV]

This creates psychological tweaks in the kids, more valid than "blood" or "race". It it is passed on, as surely as genetic material. Whatever the care situation is, unconditional love with gentle teaching works best. Making a competition out of favor is not good, encouragement and patience is. Nurturing the joy of creativity is the most important, because people tend to "find themselves" in endeavors that are both intellectual, and from the heart. Smiles and laughter.

Very true, but not at all easy for some people. I think we still suffer a sort of "frontier" complex, a psychology that is most probably the result of our lack of culture and history. Euros find it far easier to express feelings openly than do we Amis. It is a serious flaw, and it is one that affects (infects) our politics, as well. No other civilized nation puts up with the bullshit that our campaigns almost always degenerate into. We have never learned to discuss; we only shout at each other.


Why is it that methods for rehabilitating the mental state of rescue animals is understood, but throwing another human under the bus is celebrated?Same "frontier" attitude. It is far easier for the man on a horse to show mercy to an animal than it is to share a bit of fleeting emotion with another man. Despite all that is bruited and published about equal rights, many of our fellow Amis -- if not most, actually -- still harbor sexist superiority that permits the penis to dominate any issue -- this not in the true libidinal sense, or simple concupiscence, but as a matter of pure, alpha male domination as an animal right.

[WØTKX]

Yes... I have one too, but I try not to live for it... it's such a silly willy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaWUaboCIrM


Sometimes I leave the house without it... (Rumpus Link). (http://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php?14149-Rumpus-Rhythms-Rhymes-and-Raps...&p=278365&viewfull=1#post278365)

[kc7jty]

"Jew blood" ????

did I word it wrongly?

[WØTKX]

To you, it's what you say it is.

[NQ6U]

did I word it wrongly?

"Jewish" might have been a little better...

[kc7jty]

What difference does any of it make?
My mother reveled in the fact she had French in her lineage, and the family name Keim was of German origin going back to pre revolution time.
I'm trying to get more info from my sister now. Maybe ma chose not to believe the adoption thing?

Chugwater is some kind of desolate place all right. Rode the train through there many times. Grass, wild sunflowers, and absolute zero winters with kih-kass winds.

...and another thing, if anyone here doesn't think blood line/origin makes any difference you are in denial or completely blind.

[kc7jty]

This just in from sister after I asked about mom knowing if her father was adopted.

"No, not that I know of.

This all came about after Mom died. Going geneology and the internet discovered this fact."

[W4GPL]

I always enjoy when the thin veil is removed. :yes:

[kc7jty]

"Jewish" might have been a little better...

I think the whole nit pick thing is nonsense. I was corrected by my sister once for referring to the Chinese as Orientals. She replied "Asians". Well duh, the (Hindu) Indians are Asian too then.

[W3WN]

did I word it wrongly?I sure hope you did.

[NQ6U]

I think the whole nit pick thing is nonsense. I was corrected by my sister once for referring to the Chinese as Orientals. She replied "Asians". Well duh, the (Hindu) Indians are Asian too then.

I know what you mean but using "Jew" the way you stated it has had some bad connotations since around 1939 or so. I know that you didn't mean any disrespect or anything but sometimes style matters.

BTU, I'm not Jewish but my best buddy, whom I've known since high school, is. He and I have been through a lot together over the years and I tend to be a little protective when it comes to things like this.

[kc7jty]

Hey, no sweat. I hung with a young Jewish man who was quite a character years back. Being PC wasn't a requirement with him.
I called his family some time ago to try and contact him and his sister said they knew nothing of his whereabouts. I still can't figure if he disowned them or vice versa.

[kc7jty]

I always enjoy when the thin veil is removed. :yes:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/csm-photo-galleries-images/photos-of-the-day-images/2010/1026/288x122/8879035-1-eng-US/288x122.jpg

[suddenseer]

My mother reveled in the fact she had French in her lineage, and the family name Keim was of German origin going back to pre revolution time.
I'm trying to get more info from my sister now. Maybe ma chose not to believe the adoption thing?

Chugwater is some kind of desolate place all right. Rode the train through there many times. Grass, wild sunflowers, and absolute zero winters with kih-kass winds.

...and another thing, if anyone here doesn't think blood line/origin makes any difference you are in denial or completely blind.So this new informaion changes who you are? I am not iin denial, or blind, merely confused.:dunno:

[kc7jty]

So this new informaion changes who you are? I am not iin denial, or blind, merely confused.:dunno:

1) How can it possibly change who I am?
2) Do black Africans (or derivatives thereof) excel in running, jumping, and basketball?

[kc7jty]

but sometimes style matters.
Maybe so, but I believe my lack of silk glove style here is far superseded by a demand for extraordinary and exclusive treatment.

[W5RB]

1) How can it possibly change who I am? if it changes your perception of who you are , it can .

2) Do black Africans excel in running, jumping, and basketball?
Jimmy the Greek said so , but it ended his career .

[kc7jty]

Jimmy the Greek said so , but it ended his career .

I'm neither Greek nor do I have a career. I'd love to openly discuss who I am with adults, I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Let us wade into the stream of truth and determine who is or isn't in denial.

[kc7jty]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9140/streamw.png

[W5RB]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9140/streamw.png

Well , I'd say " S**t Creek" , the proverbial one , where most boaters find themselves paddle-less . It slipped past the censors at the Zed in a post or two .

[KG4CGC]

<snip>
Why is it that methods for rehabilitating the mental state of rescue animals is understood, but throwing another human under the bus is celebrated?
May I use that?

[kc7jty]

It slipped past the censors at the Zed in a post or two .
why am I not surprised
Mebbe mad cow was on duty?

[ki4itv]

This thread rocks!

But you must understand that I sit here being a quarter Irish Catholic, an eighth English, another eighth Scottish, and almost a whole half Choctaw.
So while I sit here with half of me drinking its ass off, the other half can't handle it.

[kc7jty]

HAAH! Reminds me of a Polish Irish friend who always said his Irish half would get mad and the Polish half didn't know why.

[w2amr]

So this new informaion changes who you are? I am not iin denial, or blind, merely confused.:dunno:I am not in denial, or blind, or confused. I just don't give a schitt. This attitude comes from my not caring about things I had/have no control over.

[w2amr]

"Jew blood" ????Oh boy.:roll:

[suddenseer]

I am not in denial, or blind, or confused. I just don't give a schitt. This attitude comes from my not caring about things I had/have no control over.The only concern I have about my family's geneology is the chronic diseases they passed on to me........THANKS!!

[suddenseer]

1) How can it possibly change who I am?
2) Do black Africans (or derivatives thereof) excel in running, jumping, and basketball?(1.) my point. (2.)I guess some do, others don't. According to the scientists, every modern human came from Africa. I have read that we are all connected to the original particle. I would understand after believing a lie told by someone you trusted would be causing all kinds of negative feelings. I have been in that situation several times.

My parents got the geneology bug about 13 years ago. I found out my maternal grandfather is a desendant of a mathetician named Bayes. The mathematics skill must have been diffused by the time I came along because I can barely balance my check book. My Dad's side uncovered ancestors that are just as dull, boring, and banal as I am.

[NQ6U]

My Dad's side uncovered ancestors that are just as dull, boring, and banal as I am.

RR that. The only person who ever amounted to anything in my family was my first cousin once-removed on my father's side--Joltin' Joe DiMaggio. Everyone else, including myself, has been just another worker.

[w2amr]

The only concern I have about my family's geneology is the chronic diseases they passed on to me........THANKS!!Yeah, but that can be deceiving. What was the average life expediency of a male back then, 40?

[kc7jty]

I think (and KNOW THEY ARE) people should be proud of who they are. I've told people I was of German and maybe French origin, something wrong with that?

I worked with a bunch of young Latinos in El Paso. I once went up to one and asked how to say Wednesday in Spanish. He got disgusted that I would ask such a thing and replied "I don't know that crap language." With absolute resolve I told him "You should be proud of who you are." It took him completely off guard.

Don't allow ANYONE to steer you into thinking in a way that pleases them. You are the one who gets to make the right and wrong calls.

The fact is that present day black Africans regardless of their place of residence/birth excel above all other races in the areas I have mentioned. There are a myriad of other characteristics particular to other peoples as well.
This statement, although undeniably true, is hated, looked down upon, and vehemently denied by those who wish to do the thinking for you.
They believe that by sweeping the truth under the carpet it will somehow get us to all live together in harmony. It is by an accurate understanding of others, coupled with the knowledge that it's normal to feel proud of who you are, and RESPECT for that pride that is our only hope.

[KE7DKN]

I worked with a bunch of young Latinos in El Paso. I once went up to one and asked how to say Wednesday in Spanish. He got disgusted that I would ask such a thing and replied "I don't know that crap language." With absolute resolve I told him "You should be proud of who you are." It took him completely off guard.

Don't allow ANYONE to steer you into thinking in a way that pleases them. You are the one who gets to make the right and wrong calls.

Then why did you tell someone they should be proud of who they are based on their preferences toward foreign languages? Sounds like the guy had no interest in learning the language of his ancestors. Maybe he didn't define his identity based on knowing Spanish, but you apparently told him that he should.

If individuals shouldn't allow others to dictate their thoughts to them, why did you scold someone for not thinking like you?

[kc7jty]

Then why did you tell someone they should be proud of who they are based on their preferences toward foreign languages? Sounds like the guy had no interest in learning the language of his ancestors. Maybe he didn't define his identity based on knowing Spanish, but you apparently told him that he should.

If individuals shouldn't allow others to dictate their thoughts to them, why did you scold someone for not thinking like you?

It's very common down there, the American Hispanics look down their noses at the Mexicans. It has nothing to do with language. He completely cast off his heritage to be an "American".

I once got into a pickle with a neighbor there (young Hispanic male) who evidently heard me going along with other American Hispanics on the CB knocking "Mexicans". He changed his tune when he saw almost all my friends were Hispanics. I found the whole thing quite humorous.
If an American Hispanic knocks Mexicans it's OK because he's knocking Mexican nationals (which is a sport for many of them) but if an "Anglo" knocks Mexicans, he's automatically knocking ALL Mexican/Mexican Americans.

[W3MIV]

If an American Hispanic knocks Mexicans it's OK because he's knocking Mexican nationals (which is a sport for many of them) but if an "Anglo" knocks Mexicans, he's automatically knocking ALL Mexican/Mexican Americans.

In my experience, this is pretty much a general rule among every ethnic cluster. My Irish grandfather was a genuine Irish "republican," and he could flay an Orangeman with a skill that left one breathless, but let a German or "hunky" (as he styled my father's family, who were Bohemians) say anything bad about that same Orangeman and the old man would split a gut.

Circle those wagons...

[suddenseer]

Yeah, but that can be deceiving. What was the average life expediency of a male back then, 40?After I turned 50 my doc wanted me to have a colonoscopy due to my family history of cancer. I had it done, damned if they didn't find a malignant polyp. I would be in the advanced stages right now if that family history and age was ignored. I had to endure radiation, and chemo, but hey it have me a socially acceptable excuse to smoke weed.:-D

[n2ize]

My mother reveled in the fact she had French in her lineage, and the family name Keim was of German origin going back to pre revolution time.
I'm trying to get more info from my sister now. Maybe ma chose not to believe the adoption thing?

Chugwater is some kind of desolate place all right. Rode the train through there many times. Grass, wild sunflowers, and absolute zero winters with kih-kass winds.

...and another thing, if anyone here doesn't think blood line/origin makes any difference you are in denial or completely blind.

What real difference does it make ? Does it change who you are or what you believe in or the things you are interested in or the things you enjoy in life ? I consider my nationality American. Anything that happened elsewhere in the world before that doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

[kc7jty]

Some do all the lineage research and others don't give a hoot, guess I fall in between somewhere. No real diff.

[KE7DKN]

It's very common down there, the American Hispanics look down their noses at the Mexicans. It has nothing to do with language. He completely cast off his heritage to be an "American".

If someone wants to "cast off" their heritage and not define themselves by their ancestry, I don't see the problem.

[kc7jty]

good for you, may you live to 106.

[W3MIV]

In my own case, I think that the more I found about about my forebears, the less I wanted to know.

The "bottom line" -- to resort to a hackneyed metaphor -- is that I am who I am, and my past may have molded me, indeed it had to have molded me, but at this point there is nothing I can do to change that. No amelioration is possible that will make me somebody else. I must either be comfortable in my skin or find that bridge over the Chattahoochee.

My grandparents were of a different time and place. The Bohunk was a bitter nazi, but I was shielded from him. I don't believe Naziism is a genetic inheritance. My Irish grandfather, the B&O cop, I was closer to. Unfortunately, both he and my father died in the same year -- 1953. I lionized the old man. He took me down to Pratt Street, to the old Bailey's Roundhouse, where the famous docksider "Little Joe" shifted cars late at night and on Saturdays. He'd hand me up to an engineer or fireman, and I would ride up and down Pratt while he drank with his cronies in the B&O Bar on Carey at Pratt. He took me on long walks on the Old Main Line that winds along the Patapsco River. We got caught in tunnels when steam locos hauling coal drags filled them with smoke, ash and fire as I huddled in near terror in a niche in the wall, watching fascinated as the grate shook burning cinders that I was sure would immolate me. He had an explosive laugh, and always slapped a thigh with a huge hand, and he taught me to cuss in Gaelic when neither my mother nor grandmother were around. He drank beer and whiskey, and he got maudlin about an Ireland he left at two and could not possibly have remembered. He had a Smith % Wesson revolver that he let me hold and examine -- again, when neither my mother nor grandmother were anywhere near. He smoked, joked and cussed. He took me fishing for "gudgeons," though we never caught a one. When my bicycle was stolen from me at knife point (I was eight), he and the famous Captain Emerson of Baltimore's infamous vice squad took me to the Central Police Station so I could pick out a replacement -- it never occurred to me that the bike was some other kid's bike, a bike that kid would never get back...

Long after he was dead, I considered doing a biography of the old man. I researched. Looked up acquaintances, co-workers, and others who knew him. I began to learn other things about him. Less flattering things. How he had beaten up hobos he caught, although they were doing nothing more than using empty cars for free transportation during the Thirties. Some may have been thieves, but most weren't. He'd cuff them with their hands behind them, then trip them as they marched up the long, granite steps to the police station. This inevitably broke teeth and smashed mouths as they fell forward, unable to break their fall. He hated as only an Irishman can hate. Lots of really ugly stuff came forward from people who knew him, both friends and enemies.

I learned that none of the ugly stuff erased or dimmed the good. He was, after all, human -- subject to all the frailties that make us devils more than angels. I learned to no longer seek out the ugly, which I could not change. I dropped the idea of writing anything, and I wrapped myself in the good memories and set the others aside. I cannot influence them, but they could influence me. They could influence me adversely, corrupting memories not with truth that thrusts the lies aside, but with truth that merely dims and tarnishes what were also truths.

Some things are better not known, Bill. Sometimes it's better to let the dust lie undisturbed.

[NQ6U]

Albi, while my paternal grandfather wasn't quite as colorful as yours, there are certain parallels. He lived through the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, shipped out on a square-rigger to fish for salmon in the Gulf of Alaska, was an amateur boxer of some repute, was a union man all the way in his youth and voted for Eugene Debs for president in 1920. But he was always a scrapper and got meaner as he got older, his politics moved to the right and he was a terrible racist. Still, he loved his wife and children and worked his ass off through the Great Depression to keep them from feeling the worst of it. And he was always generous and kind--in his own rough-hewn way--with my siblings and myself.

Everyone has flaws, every damned last one of us.

[WØTKX]

When I compare family histories with friends, I'm saddened by the oh too common histories of violence and abuse.

[NA4BH]

The only concern I have about my family's geneology is the chronic diseases they passed on to me........THANKS!!

And the will that didn't include you. :) :)

[KE7DKN]

good for you, may you live to 106.

Thanks, but I'd rather die young at the hands of a supermodel's husband in a fit of jealousy.

[kc7jty]

Thanks, but I'd rather die young at the hands of a supermodel's husband in a fit of jealousy.

Really! I hit 60 last June, and am thinking 70 will be plenty of this *#^@*- chit.

[kc7jty]

Been thinking of ma lately, her father died when she was 7, her mother at 14. Had 5 sisters, 2 brothers. The older sisters took turns taking her in from age 14.
At least she knew the gvt was bullshit, and saw to it I was enrolled in tech school to keep me from getting drafted to Viet Nam.
...thanks ma.