Okay, you (music) broadcast radio experts...

[kf0rt]

How does it work?

Just curious how music distribution works in this new-fangled digital age. I'm sure all the music stations these days pay their dues to ASCAP and the like, but I doubt every music station has a bank of hard drives delivering MP3 tracks to the transmitter. Seems more likely that it's all delivered via the 'net these days in real-time. I'd guess they all have some good playlist software that works it all out and probably have something that's a cut above Rhapsody or iTunes.

Anyone know?

[N2CHX]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Are you wanting to know how the audio gets to the transmitter? There are still plenty of good old fashioned analog STL's around, plus dedicated phone lines, digital STL's, T1 links... Not a lot has changed in 20 years really. There are a couple of STL systems out there that use the internet as a delivery medium, but they are not widely used at this point.

As for automation, that hasn't changed much in 15 years either. AudioVault, Scott/Google/WideOrbit/Whateveritisthisweek, Enco, iMedia, etc...

[suddenseer]

Back when I was in the biz, the stations had 'special' records, and tapes. The record companies supplied. They all had some sort of label ;for broadcast use only" They usually played a blanket fee for locally produced commercials that used recorded music. The dj's were not allowed to play outside the format, so the records were all intended for broadcast use. The college station I worked for was scary, they probably violated every fcc content rule, as well as licensing. They paid a blanket fee of several hundred bucks I think. I have no idea how the internet mp3's are handled, since any device can make a perfect copy. I know the RIAA sues several people using p2p networks every month. I pay for my downloads, don't do it very often.

[kf0rt]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Are you wanting to know how the audio gets to the transmitter? There are still plenty of good old fashioned analog STL's around, plus dedicated phone lines, digital STL's, T1 links... Not a lot has changed in 20 years really. There are a couple of STL systems out there that use the internet as a delivery medium, but they are not widely used at this point.

As for automation, that hasn't changed much in 15 years either. AudioVault, Scott/Google/WideOrbit/Whateveritisthisweek, Enco, iMedia, etc...

Thanks, Kell -- if anyone knows this stuff, it's probably you.

But no... Not asking about STL's and the like, but rather how the stations access their library of music. In the old days, most music stations had huge on-site libraries of LP's. "Stacks of wax" and all that. I can't imagine that this is very practical today, so there must be new and better way. If I'm running a pop-tunes radio station today, what is the source of my music? Do I pull it from local hard drives, the 'net, what? I know the source isn't LP's or carts. I have to believe that the source is digital, but how does it work?

Just a curiosity, really. Got a relatively new station here in Denver, KYEN. Privately owned and I gather the owner runs it as a serious hobby. It's an old-style rock station that plays B tracks and such. Programming is top-notch (that's relative, but I like it). No advertising, no DJ's; totally cool. Picture a guy plugging an iPod into the transmitter and just letting it run. Oversimplified, I know, and that's probably not how it works.

Guess my question is: "What is the 2010 equivalent of the stacks of wax from the 1970's and before?" STL's aren't that interesting: what feeds the studio?

[N2CHX]

Thanks, Kell -- if anyone knows this stuff, it's probably you.

But no... Not asking about STL's and the like, but rather how the stations access their library of music. In the old days, most music stations had huge on-site libraries of LP's. "Stacks of wax" and all that. I can't imagine that this is very practical today, so there must be new and better way. If I'm running a pop-tunes radio station today, what is the source of my music? Do I pull it from local hard drives, the 'net, what? I know the source isn't LP's or carts. I have to believe that the source is digital, but how does it work?

Just a curiosity, really. Got a relatively new station here in Denver, KYEN. Privately owned and I gather the owner runs it as a serious hobby. It's an old-style rock station that plays B tracks and such. Programming is top-notch (that's relative, but I like it). No advertising, no DJ's; totally cool. Picture a guy plugging an iPod into the transmitter and just letting it run. Oversimplified, I know, and that's probably not how it works.

Guess my question is: "What is the 2010 equivalent of the stacks of wax from the 1970's and before?" STL's aren't that interesting: what feeds the studio?



Gotcha. Sorry, I think way too technical sometimes.


Honestly, most music still comes on CD. Every music station I've ever been in in the last 10 years has a CD library. It's usually locked up. The cuts to air are ripped off of the CD's onto hard disk. Last group I worked for had 4 terabytes of storage and it was stored in 48 kHz uncompressed WAV files. If the song gets hosed off the hard drive it can be restored off the master CD in storage.


Usually the MD and PD will review new releases that come in Fedex from the record companies. If it makes it to air the MD then rips it from the CD to the automation system. I have seen (and heard UGH!) cases where a PD/MD will get a bootleg copy of a new release off the internet and air it. It usually sounds like shite and they don't do it often because they can get in deep doo-doo for that. I've known of it happening maybe twice. I have no idea where they actually picked the cut up from but I do know in both cases it sounded like it was recorded off a cell phone.

[W2NAP]

surprised they use .wav over .mp3

1TB could hold lots n lots of songs..

[N2CHX]

surprised they use .wav over .mp3

1TB could hold lots n lots of songs..

Some stations do use mp3 or mp2. Not a good idea depending on what's in your audio chain. If you have some other types of compression algorithms used in your STL or processing, "dueling algorithms" will often produce a crunchy or grungy sound. Even a high-bitrate mp3 can do this and the space saved just isn't worth it. Data real estate isn't THAT expensive.

[K7SGJ]

Some stations do use mp3 or mp2. Not a good idea depending on what's in your audio chain. If you have some other types of compression algorithms used in your STL or processing, "dueling algorithms" will often produce a crunchy or grungy sound. Even a high-bitrate mp3 can do this and the space saved just isn't worth it. Data real estate isn't THAT expensive.

Of course, some of the ratchet rock stations go to great lengths to try to achieve that sound.

[N2CHX]

Of course, some of the ratchet rock stations go to great lengths to try to achieve that sound.

Heh, this is true. I always tried to come to a good compromise between dynamic range, loud and clean. Audio processing and transmitters were my two very strong points and my stations always sounded great as long as some dumb GM or PD didn't interfere. The only thing most engineers would disagree with me on is AM modulation. If the transmitter was capable I always set AM processing up to slam brick wall hard at 120% positive and as much negative modulation as the transmitter could handle without clipping. A lot of engineers don't like the distortion asymmetrical modulation introduces, but my experience has been that it is barely noticeable on most radios, most AM listeners don't care and the S/N advantage it gives you is well-worth the compromise.


>sigh< some days I miss engineering. I made it an art form and I loved fixing stuff no one else could. Then I remember the 2 am phone calls and bigoted assholes I worked with and I remember why I left....

[K7SGJ]

The station I was at was a news, sports, talk AM, and lite rock fm. The am side wasn't a too much of problem (other than the talent egos), but everyone and his brother had to f**k with the processing on the fm side. What a bunch of dinks. Afterall, what can you do to make Mailow sound better, or even good?. Louder sure as hell don't work. True about the call outs. I, too, enjoyed the repair work the most. On the am side we did the Suns, Cards, Diamondbacks, ASU sports, all live. The traveling and late nights got real old, real quick. A Saturday nite ASU game out west, then Cards on Sunday afternoon out East, and the Suns in who knows where. I finally bailed to be with my family more since the kids were starting to think I was their uncle instead of their dad.

[N2CHX]

The station I was at was a news, sports, talk AM, and lite rock fm. The am side wasn't a too much of problem (other than the talent egos), but everyone and his brother had to f**k with the processing on the fm side. What a bunch of dinks. Afterall, what can you do to make Mailow sound better, or even good?. Louder sure as hell don't work. True about the call outs. I, too, enjoyed the repair work the most. On the am side we did the Suns, Cards, Diamondbacks, ASU sports, all live. The traveling and late nights got real old, real quick. A Saturday nite ASU game out west, then Cards on Sunday afternoon out East, and the Suns in who knows where. I finally bailed to be with my family more since the kids were starting to think I was their uncle instead of their dad.

Ah yes, talent egos. That was the final straw in my leaving. I have some very fond memories and some not-so-fond ones. I did a lot of crazy things to get stations back on the air in a pinch, made my share of dumb mistakes and had fun watching others make them, along with all the sweet victories over the gremlins and ol' Murph. And yeah, I hear you on the thing about family. It was definitely a deciding factor in my departure as well. I had a great time with my kids this summer, despite ex #1 giving me a load of shite (long story). At this point I'm still deciding what I want to be when I grow up. Real estate just sucks right now and I'm working p/t doing sales. I'm hoping my lifelong dream of actually making a living writing something non-technical comes to fruition faster than I planned.

[kf0rt]

Gotcha. Sorry, I think way too technical sometimes.


Honestly, most music still comes on CD. Every music station I've ever been in in the last 10 years has a CD library. It's usually locked up. The cuts to air are ripped off of the CD's onto hard disk. Last group I worked for had 4 terabytes of storage and it was stored in 48 kHz uncompressed WAV files. If the song gets hosed off the hard drive it can be restored off the master CD in storage.


Usually the MD and PD will review new releases that come in Fedex from the record companies. If it makes it to air the MD then rips it from the CD to the automation system. I have seen (and heard UGH!) cases where a PD/MD will get a bootleg copy of a new release off the internet and air it. It usually sounds like shite and they don't do it often because they can get in deep doo-doo for that. I've known of it happening maybe twice. I have no idea where they actually picked the cut up from but I do know in both cases it sounded like it was recorded off a cell phone.

Thanks, Kelli... Guess I thought it might be a little more advanced given the technology today...? The thought of a MD ripping discs seems a little primitive (most consumers don't even do that these days).

4TB is a shitload of tunes, tho... ;)

[W1GUH]

However the music gets to the stations there must be armies and armies out there cleaning and digitizing vinyl and whatever came befort that. Satellite radio seems to have every song ever recorded cleaned up, and even an independant like WPON (http://www.wpon.com/) seems to have an infinite selection of everything, and I do mean everything from the late forties to the early seventies at their beck and call. And all are beautifully cleaned up.

Personal note...

Most of the time WPON plays oldies from those years, and sometimes there's some awesome juxtapositions of different ages. One night the playe a light-hearted "feel good" party-time song from the fifties....followed immediately by "Sky Pilot (http://www.lyrics007.com/The%20Animals%20Lyrics/Sky%20Pilot%20Lyrics.html) by the Animals -- one of the heavier and deeper Vietnam lyrics.


He blesses the boys as they stand in line
The smell of gun grease and the bayonets they shine


What's great is that station was my hometown radio station back in the day. The one station I could reliably hear on my two crystal sets and the one that I hung out in with a friend who worked there. But they couldn't hold a candle to the Detroit stations, WXYZ and WKNR. But today, they've got that great streaming oldies web cast. In some ways it's better than satellite.

[W2NAP]

around here, its mostly bible bangers. and crappy canned voice tracked wanna be radio